Friday, May 19, 2017

Another Rabbi Speaks

"Shema" is one of the songs I love in the Way.  We sing it in the Easter Vigil all the time.  What does it mean? Listen Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One. Blessed is His name, whose glorious kingdom is forever. Love God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your strength.

As parents, we always tell our kids to do well in school, get good grades, and get a good job. Although these things are good, we never tell them to love God first and foremost. The Way is teaching us to love God with all our heart, with all our mind, and with all our strength. When we put God first and in the center of our lives, all things fall into place. And the things that usually hurt us is taken up by Christ.  

By Rabbi Daniel Allen
Can we Jews accept love and admiration from others without suspicion? We are conditioned over centuries to be skeptics about gestures let alone explicit embrace from others telling us that we love you as Jews and wish only that you prosper. Last week I became less skeptical and less cynical having spent 4 days at Domus Galilaeae with 400 Catholics and Jews, Rabbis, Priests, Cardinals, Bishops and Catholic lay leaders from 27 countries.
We were brought together by the Neo-Catecumenal Way, a lay led very conservative movement within the Catholic world of more than two million souls. It is led by Kiko Arguello, a most fascinating fellow who is an artist, musician, writer and clearly the charismatic leader of his flock. It provides post-baptismal formation to adults who are already members of the church.
They love the Jews, honor and study our Torah, support the State of Israel and have incorporated the recitation of and belief in theShema as central to who they are as Catholics.
To be sure we do not agree on many issues and certainly not on doctrine. Nonetheless, we studied together, dined together and prayed – if not together but at least in each other’s presence. The more than 150 Rabbis – men and women – represented the entire spectrum of our folks including Reform, Conservative, Reconstructionist, Modern Orthodox, and Charedim. A member of the Chief Rabbinate participated as did Blu and Rabbis Yitz Greenberg, Shlomo Riskin and Jay Rosenbaum the head of the North American Board of Rabbis under whose auspices we came from America and Canada.
As North American Rabbis we chose to issue a statement from this experience. Drafted by Rabbis Michael Zedek and Gary Bretton Granatoor, we declared it publicly for any who wished to sign.
The take away message to me is that loving relationships – even between and among those about whom we were once skeptical can bring understanding and Godliness into all of our lives. If we can do so with “others” perhaps we can do it among ourselves as well.
Rabbi Daniel R. Allen is Executive Vice Chairman Emeritus of the United Israel Appeal and past President of Association of Reform Zionist of America (ARZA) and Masorti Foundation.



  2. Diana, as rabbi Daniel R. Allen says "the more than 150 Rabbis – men and women – represented the entire spectrum of our folks including Reform, Conservative, Reconstructionist, Modern Orthodox, and Charedim". This is an amazing richness of Judaism in relation to the NCW in the spirit of Chorazim at the Domus Galilea of the Messiah.

    Many people don't understand that the Catholic faith and the Judaic faith worship the same God, Shema of Israel! Even Jesus called his God Abba Yahweh, which means father. God is one means there are no other gods at all! How beautiful. Catholics and Judaism walk hand-in-hand toward the road that leads to the only One God, the God of Israel who is one and Lord of all.

    1. Dear anon, so what should we do then with each other as Judaism religion and Catholic religion? We differ in who Christ is. We say Christ is Jesus who was risen. He is God, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Does Judaism believe in that?

      By the way, what is "the spirit of Chorazim"?

    2. The spirit of Chorazim is the essential unity between the two religions. Excavations in the Chorazim synagogue unearthed the Seat of Moses, the place from where the Scriptures was read. The famous speech of Jesus in the synagogue is from the Seat of Moses in Nazareth:

      “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
      because he has anointed me
      to bring good news to the poor.
      He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives
      and recovery of sight to the blind,
      to let the oppressed go free,
      to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

      (Luke 4:18 --> Isaiah 61:1)

    3. Wait a minute, wait a minute...! Essential unity between the two religions?! No, my friend, you cannot leave Jesus Christ out of the picture! He was crucified by Pilate by the request of the Judaic high priests. Yes, He had to die because of the Law of one religion. How can you reconcile this fact with the so called "unity" with the Christians?

  3. Dear anon at 6:24 pm
    Your way of thinking is the reason Christ was crucified. Much like in Christ's time, he was crucified because of the law. Today you which to deny love to our Jewish brothers or a unity in which we can find bipartisan ground. Because indeed we love the same God. However you wish to adhere to the law and doctrine and ignore love just as the pharisees did. This is in essence what killed Christ.
    Anytime you choose Justice over mercy and love you kill the image of Christ. No one is denying Christ, it is a search for bipartisan ground to love each other and allow God to work with the small openness each one offers.
    In other words you want to condemn this unity because of the law. Jewish are accepting our belief in Christ as we are accepting their freedom.

    1. It is not law but mercy in its purest form that Jesus Christ suffered greatly and sacrificed himself to save us. This 'us' includes the Jews, but they rejected Him. How could you have salvation without coming to the Lord Jesus in humility acknowledging and accepting Him as your Savior?

      Has rabbi Dan Allen accepted Jesus as his Savior? Has he called on his denomination to do so? If not, then he is rejecting the mercy of God as incarnated in Jesus. This has nothing to do with the law.

    2. Explain to me how you accept Christ? Just by verbally saying he is your savior. This is ridiculous. It is magical, ethereal, utopian. In the end it is fake. I can explain it in simple terms what it is to accept Christ. To accept Christ is to accept that we are sinners and that we depend on Christ's mercy who intercedes in front of the father for us to be saved. In other words even if you verbally say you accept Christ as savior, if you are unrepentant and justify your own sins or shortcomings than you call God a liar and Christ is not your savior. Just as if a Jew accepts God's mercy shown in Christ, without verbally attributing it to the name Christ, then he unknowingly accepts Christ as his savior.
      Christ died for ALL, not just those who verbally call on his name. To think otherwise is to belittle the divinity of Christ and his death and resurrection.
      Technically what you are saying is heretical. It is heretical because you are splitting Christ and God as if they are not one and the same. If you are Catholic we believe there is only one God not 2 or 3. They are 3 persons but one God, this is the trinity. So to adore God (as the Jewish people do) is to adore Christ whether they admit it or not. If you don't believe this than you are not Catholic.

    3. Please, try not to impose on me. I do not share with you my views as you do share your own view and understanding. But what I share with you is the teaching of Jesus from the Bible as espoused in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

      To accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior is to acknowledge that He is God and subject yourself to Him as God. This is the first. You are correct to say the the Holy Trinity is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three persons are one God, the God Head of the Holy Trinity God. If you say Jesus is not God, then you deny his sonship and you are not a Christian.

      Our sinfulness is not absolute. We have the inherited sin as being human. But Jesus freed us from the inherited sin in Holy Sacrifice. You should not worship sin by claiming it is absolute. If you do, then you deny the Holy Sacrament of Confession that cleans you from sin. If you don't repent your sin from your heart then you abuse the confessional and get into even bigger sin. So always repent before confession. The saving power of Jesus is present in the Confession as wee=ll as in the Eucharist.

      Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior is not a verbal act. It requires you to turn to Him as God with your whole being. You cannot have access to the Father who created the Universe through the Son, without the Son. Our only link to the Father is the Son, who is Jesus our Savior.

      Now, it is nice that Judaism talks about One God. But they mean the Father only. This opens the abyss between the two religions. One person of the God Head is one third of the Holy Trinity. Jews have never listened to Jesus who told them that He is the only Way, Truth and Life. How can you get access to the Father by short cutting the Son? You cannot. The Lord Jesus is the gate keeper. This is the truth in the Bible.

    4. I have three questions for anon at 12.20am:

      What did Jesus mean when he said "No-one comes to the Father but by me"?

      Can someone unconsciously accept what they consciously reject?

      Have you ever told a Jewish person that they adore and worship Jesus Christ whether they know it or not?

  4. It is hard to deny Jesus Christ's opinion that you cannot come to the Father only by Him. Love means accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. There is no other way.

    "Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me." (John 14:24)

    1. This is a misunderstanding of St. Paul's teaching. He says
      "Do not boast over the branches. If you do boast, remember that it is not you that support the root, but the root that supports you."
      (Romans 11:18)

      Again: "You continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And even those of Israel,[h] if they do not persist in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you have been cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree."
      (Romans 11:23-24)

      One more time: "26 And so all Israel will be saved; as it is written,
      “Out of Zion will come the Deliverer;
      he will banish ungodliness from Jacob.”
      “And this is my covenant with them,
      when I take away their sins.”
      As regards the gospel they are enemies of God for your sake; but as regards election they are beloved, for the sake of their ancestors; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:26-29)

      I don't know how do you want to interpret this, but what St. Paul states here very clearly is that God's gift to the Jews is irrevocable. They are the natural olive branch and you are the wild one. Their ancestors were the elect of God and that remains. The root, the Jewish people, supports you, rather than you support the root.

      Jesus teaches mercy which is apart from the law. But the law still remains, because of the love of God who gave the law to the Jews.

    2. No, it is you who don't correctly explain St Paul's letter to the Romans. The acceptance of Jews is pre-conditioned on their acknowledging Jesus as their Savior. This means confessing Jesus who died on the cross as the long awaited Jewish Messiah. Until their don't believe in the Lord Jesus, their election remains fictitious.

    3. Anon @ 10:36 am
      We believe Christ and God to be the same. To love God is to love Christ. See my post above. To accept Christ simply means through his sacrifice. To accept God's mercy on us as sinners is to accept Christ. In fact many Jews have come to recognize Christ as the savior. You cannot juridically force them to this realization. They must do it on their own, in their free will. Just as God does not force you to stop sinning. Yet he offers his son for us.

      To know God one must go through Christ, but to be saved it is enough to accept God's mercy.
      Christ chooses his disciples to be light to be like him. But not all are chosen for this task, but it is God's will for all men to be saved.
      A distinction must be made between being saved, and being chosen as a follower of Christ.
      "Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me." (John 14:24)
      And also the text you paraphrased as going through Christ to get to the father is specifically meant for those who are chosen to be his disciples. This does not mean that others would not be saved unless they go through him. The Catholic Church makes this distinction. Christ makes this distinction in scripture. The fathers of the Church make this distinction in their writing.

    4. dear Anon @ 5:26 pm
      Their election exist before Christ was made flesh. God's election is irrevocable. Even all the pope's have confirmed this. Even the fathers of the church state that thanks to God putting a veil over the elected people of God (the Jews) the Gospel reached us (the gentiles).
      Your interpretation is fictitious. All scripture will tell you otherwise. Just praying the liturgy of the hours and reading the fathers of the Church will tell you otherwise.
      You can't even state a verse that will say it is preconditioned. Christ died to save all. Their is no precondition for this. The verse that confuses you is the verse where Christ states that to know the father one must go through him. This is because in Christ is the true image of God. This verse is meant for those who which to be perfect like Christ. For those who wish to be his followers. One does not have to be a follower of Christ to be saved. At least according to Catholic doctrine.
      If your statement where true than most of the Catholic Believers and even the world is condemned to hell. Since an extremely low percentage actually follow Christ and his teachings.
      His most important teaching is to love your enemy, to not resist evil. I think you can agree almost no one does that.

    5. Dear anon, nobody is forcing the Jews. They are just fine and feel good as being Jews. It is their religion. They have never said they want to be Christians. So we should leave them alone to worship God on their own way.

    6. What Jesus says is that you cannot love God without loving Him, Jesus. It makes sense because He is God. Co how can you "love" God if you hate the Son? Who else is the Son, but Jesus my Lord?

    7. Being saved means the original sin of mankind was erased by the willing sacrifice of Jesus of himself on the cross. From that point of time in the history, everyone has an opportunity to acknowledge and confess Him as Lord and Savior. If you you know Jesus, still you willingly reject Him, then you reject His grace and saving power. Then you reject God himself.

    8. "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."" (John 14:6)

      Please, stick to the Bible. You keep repeating a doctrinal understanding that is alien from the Scriptures. Opening up to the Word of God means you read what is written and not what you would like to be written. Jesus is Lord!

    9. Dear Anonymous at 9:55 am,

      This is a Catholic blog. We do not believe in scripture alone. As Catholics, sacred scripture is not our sole authority. The traditions passed down from the Apostles of Christ and the teaching Magisterium of the Catholic Church are also authoritative.

    10. Diana, the catechism of the church approves the Scriptures. As you also say, there is no sola scriptura in the Catholic faith. We all know this. That is why you always have to check what the catechism tells you about the Scripture so that you understand it well. I agree with you in this. Thanks.

    11. To anon at 3.25 and elsewhere:

      Did you notice this verse of Romans 11?

      "Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them"

      Does this sound as if Paul believed the Jews to be saved simply by being Jews? No, its clear that he wishes to "save SOME of them" - by stirring them up with envy.

      Time after time this same error comes up on this blog. The Jewish person is saved just like anyone else - by believing in Jesus Christ - presuming of course that "being saved" is a reference to eternal life.

      "Anyone who believes in the Son has eternal life, but anyone who refuses to believe in the Son will never see life: God's retribution hangs over him" (John 3.36)

      Anon, you said this:

      "This does not mean that others would not be saved unless they go through him. The Catholic Church makes this distinction. Christ makes this distinction in scripture. The fathers of the Church make this distinction in their writing. "

      Please show where the Catholic Church "makes this distinction" or where the fathers of the Church make this distinction. It sounds like imagination to me. The Church does accept that someone may be saved even though they may not be formally part of the visible Church, but that does not mean they are saved independently of whether they accept Christ or not. It simply means that we are limited in the extent to which we can know how and when God knocks at the door of the human heart, nor can we know someone's interior life including whether they accept Christ interiorly. But, the Church does hold that if someone is saved, it is by virtue of Christ.

    12. anon @ 11:55
      Again this is not church doctrine. Christ is referring to eternal life. It is obvious you are speaking from learned things and not experience. I hope i do not offend anyone, Christ offers eternal life here on earth for those who are elected and desire it. This is what he refers to every time he speaks of the kingdom. However Christ died so that all may have access to eternal life in heaven through the mercy of God in Christ.
      To refuse to believe in the son is to refuse the mercy of God. Just as the pharisees thought they could save themselves through their own works. This is why they where condemned because they refused to see their sinful nature. As the Gospel says the word (Christ) was made flesh those who received it where made to be like God as children of God (the elected who experience eternal life here on earth) those who rejected it condemned themselves because they loved their evil deeds and did not wish to come to the light. Again talking about sin and hiding their sins, justifying them as if they could save themselves.
      Christ came so we could experience heaven here on earth for those who desire it. This is independent from eternal salvation after death. Adam never knew Christ, yet we believe Christ opened heaven for him according to our traditions.
      As for Christ washing away original sin, this is true in baptism when received fully. Christ did indeed open the door to wash original sin through baptism. Yet consider that in the first 300 years of the Catholic church a gentile could not be baptized unless he completed the catechumenate. It lasted years and years. It was not till a person had the same nature as Christ that he was baptized as a zeal of this new nature. This means, that because of free will, men are still sinners. Christ opened the path so that one can be washed of original sin in baptism. But to fully grow the graces of baptism one must be educated to love Christ above all things.
      If you wish to be my disciple you must hate father, mother, daughter sister and even your own life. Sell your possession give it to the poor and follow me. This is the word he (Christ) gives when he is asked what you must do to receive eternal life or follow him (one and the same thing for he is the resurrection). This also results in growing the graces of baptism that we received and being washed of original sin.
      We must take the gospel as whole, not in pieces.

    13. Dear anon at 2.35

      “Again this is not church doctrine”
      What is not church doctrine?
      “Christ came so we could experience heaven here on earth for those who desire it. This is independent from eternal salvation after death.”
      Is this choose-your-own-adventure Christianity? Such a distinction is not only absent in the Church, it is trite and meaningless. Are you going to experience heaven here on earth forever? Or are you going to die? In which case, what ultimately matters is your (our, my) eternal destiny, not what you get on earth.

      Sorry, but I find your theological explanation tiresome, confusing and silly. You didn’t actually respond to the things I wrote before, but just confused matters even more.

    14. "Yet consider that in the first 300 years of the Catholic church a gentile could not be baptized unless he completed the catechumenate."

      This is untrue. The apostles baptized the Gentiles by the hundreds. Please, read about the evangelization method of St. Paul in the Acts of the Apostles.

      5 When Silas and Timothy arrived from Macedonia, Paul was occupied with proclaiming the word,[c] testifying to the Jews that the Messiah[d] was Jesus. 6 When they opposed and reviled him, in protest he shook the dust from his clothes[e] and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.” 7 Then he left the synagogue[f] and went to the house of a man named Titius[g] Justus, a worshiper of God; his house was next door to the synagogue. 8 Crispus, the official of the synagogue, became a believer in the Lord, together with all his household; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul became believers and were baptized. (Acts 18)

    15. "the elected who experience eternal life here on earth"

      There is no eternal life here on earth. There is no two eternal lives, one here on earth and the other in heaven.

      There is only one God, one Church, one bread, one body, one Lord of all, one cup of blessing which we bless.

    16. Anon @ 6:47 pm
      As per the scripture you sent. Emphasis they where worshipers of God. They believed, and where probably already educated in Judaic tradition and as a consequence in Christianity. The evangelist does not need to emphasize something obvious to people of the times. John Chrysostom states a few centuries later that the catechumen cannot be baptized till he fulfills virtue without effort. Confirming that baptism was not given till the person was the likeness of Christ, was his imitator in actions not words.

      Anon @ 7:05 pm
      You are correct there are not 2 salvations. Salvation now, and experiencing eternal life, is a taste of eternal salvation and our inheritance in heaven. You are wrong about no eternal life here on earth though. This is why we believe that their are saints who God gifted with incorruptible bodies to show that eternal life can be tasted here and now, in Christ. I also wrote a long post with supporting church documents that prove this. Hopefully it will be published.
      I am only making a distinction so as to say that many times in the Gospels, when speaking of salvation and going to the father through Christ it refers to tasting eternal life here and now through loving Christ. But this does not exclude people who do not now Christ from eternal salvation.
      For sure they are one and the same salvation. But in order to taste it here and now one must go learn about and love Christ.
      Hebrews 6:4 - 6
      "4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance."

      This means eternal life can be tasted now as a taste of what is to come in heaven.
      The church calls these elected people the messianic people who have the duty to be the Church of Christ as light and salt of the earth so that ALL may receive redemption. - Lumen Gentium

      All can receive this gift, but most people choose worldly and material things. This is also why as Catholics we believe in purgatory as cleansing of our sinfulness so we can receive the gifts Christ has won for us. But imitators of Christ are called to abandon worldly possessions to love Christ and receive those gifts here and now as a taste of our inheritance in heaven.

      Catechism of the Catholic Church --
      2544 Jesus enjoins his disciples to prefer him to everything and everyone, and bids them "renounce all that [they have]" for his sake and that of the Gospel.335 Shortly before his passion he gave them the example of the poor widow of Jerusalem who, out of her poverty, gave all that she had to live on.336 The precept of detachment from riches is obligatory for entrance into the Kingdom of heaven.

      Also Mt 19, 29
      29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

  5. Dear anon @ 5:45 pm
    Part 1
    I apologize for my previous lazy response, it was 1:00 am. Here is a more complete response:

    When you read the Gospels Christ always speaks of salvation is here. He does not speak about the future or death or heaven. He always says the Kingdom is at hand. Not wait till you die so you can go to the Kingdom.
    The young man who asks for eternal life is responded by the text I showed above. Those who wish to follow Christ receive the same similar response. If you consider this a coincidence on the part of Christ. Maybe you lack an actual theological explanation to claim that one must announce Christ as his savior in order to go to heaven.

    However time and time again there is a distinction made as to what it is to be a Christian, and the lifestyle.
    Explains how a Christian is different from all people. "They live in their country as if they are only passing through". They live life with the experience of eternal life present in the now not in the afterlife. Making present that death has been conquered by Christ.

    Your definition of salvation is attainable without believing in Christ so long as you believe in the mercy of God.
    St. Thomas Aquinas:
    "Hope does not trust chiefly in grace already received, but on God’s omnipotence and mercy, whereby even he that has not grace, can obtain it, so as to come to eternal life. Now whoever has faith is certain of God’s omnipotence and mercy. [9]"

    According to St. Thomas Aquinas eternal life in the sense of going to heaven is received not through works or grace but by the omnipotence of God and his mercy. In other words it suffices to believe in the mercy of God and have faith in it.
    According to the theological definition of salvation:
    "God saves them by pure mercy , without considering their works 2Tim 1,9 Tit 3,5 , by grace Eph 2,5,8 , giving them the Holy Spirit 2Thes 2,13 Eph 1: 13 Tit 3.5s . From this moment the Christian must faithfully keep the word that can save his soul Sant 1:21 ; must nourish their faith with knowledge of Scripture 2 Timothy 3,15 and make it fruitful in good works Sant 2,14 "

    In other words they experience salvation now and must now do good works. Good works is to bring others towards this same salvation. In the same definition of salvation:

    "He must work with fear and trembling to "work out his salvation" ( Phil 2:12) . This presupposes a constant exercise of the healthy virtues 1Th 1,8 , which will grow in view of salvation 1Pe 2 : 2 . Minor negligence is not permitted; Salvation is offered at every instant of life Heb 2,3"
    - continued below

  6. Part 2
    In other words, although one receives the experience of eternal life on earth, he must continue to do good works in order to maintain it. Yet a final salvation is not guaranteed. Salvation is offered in every instant of life. As St. Thomas Aquinas points out in the text above it is offered through the mercy of God. Anyone who struggles to live a virtuous Christian life knows that falling into sin leads to denying the mercy of God. Leading a virtuous life helps to be in a constant state of receptiveness to his mercy. But one does not need to verbally acknowledge Christ to be in this state. To receive the mercy of God.
    If one goes further to read the NT and see the announcement of the good news by the apostles. They always denounce the sin of the people (you who killed the author of life) and then offer the mercy of God (Christ died for YOUR sins so you may receive salvation). This offering of salvation is not only salvation after death but to be saved from our current state of living in selfishness to a state of living for Christ.

    "For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God."

    Peter speaks how those who where baptized where born again of an imperishable nature. Eternal life here and now. He also speaks that they await eternal salvation the price in heaven:
    "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you."

    (emphasis on "living hope" not hope after death.) This means they already have received the taste of salvation in the here and now.

    Last document that I want to point to is Lumen Gentium. - continued below

    2. The eternal Father, by a free and hidden plan of His own wisdom and goodness, created the whole world. His plan was to raise men to a participation of the divine life. Fallen in Adam, God the Father did not leave men to themselves, but ceaselessly offered helps to salvation, in view of Christ, the Redeemer "who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature".(2) All the elect, before time began, the Father "foreknew and pre- destined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that he should be the firstborn among many brethren".(3) He planned to assemble in the holy Church all those who would believe in Christ. Already from the beginning of the world the foreshadowing of the Church took place. It was prepared in a remarkable way throughout the history of the people of Israel and by means of the Old Covenant.(1*) In the present era of time the Church was constituted and, by the outpouring of the Spirit, was made manifest. At the end of time it will gloriously achieve completion, when, as is read in the Fathers, all the just, from Adam and "from Abel, the just one, to the last of the elect,"(2*) will be gathered together with the Father in the universal Church. - Lumen Gentium
    - continued below

  7. Part 3 (last part)
    Again the elect are those who lead in a divine life in Christ elected to become the new Church with the mission of becoming the messianic people of God:

    That messianic people has Christ for its head, "Who was delivered up for our sins, and rose again for our justification",(91) and now, having won a name which is above all names, reigns in glory in heaven. The state of this people is that of the dignity and freedom of the sons of God, in whose hearts the Holy Spirit dwells as in His temple. Its law is the new commandment to love as Christ loved us.(92) Its end is the kingdom of God, which has been begun by God Himself on earth, and which is to be further extended until it is brought to perfection by Him at the end of time, when Christ, our life,(93) shall appear, and "creation itself will be delivered from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the sons of God".(94) So it is that that messianic people, although it does not actually include all men, and at times may look like a small flock, is nonetheless a lasting and sure seed of unity, hope and salvation for the whole human race. Established by Christ as a communion of life, charity and truth, it is also used by Him as an instrument for the redemption of all, and is sent forth into the whole world as the light of the world and the salt of the earth.(95) -Lumen Gentium

    Again- "It's end is the Kingdom of God which has been started already on earth by GOD HIMSELF". So those who are called to be his church are already living in the Kingdom here on earth now. There mission is to be light and salt of the earth as an instrument used by Christ to bring redemption to ALL. How can there be a messianic people as instruments of redemption for all yet only the messianic people are saved? Anyways I believe this is enough church doctrine to make my case.

    Anyways as I have stated all can be saved in the sense of going to heaven so long as they recognize their sinful nature and having faith in the loving mercy of God. All thanks to Christ who opened a path for us. This is why only through Christ you can be saved. Because it is thanks to him that we are redeemed through mercy. Without Christ mercy would not have been enough and we would have been condemned. But Christ died ONCE AND FOR ALL so that all could receive the price of heaven through the mercy of God.

    1. Dear anon, your speculations are drifting away from the well established teaching of the Catholic Church as laid out in the Catechism.

      The foretaste of eternal life is the church. The only way to get that taste is joining your parish community. The church is one. You say you wannabe a light. Still you glorify sin and sinfulness. You say a sinner can enter the heaven. No, a sinner is going to hell. Unless you repent and confess your sin, according to the Holy Sacrament of Confession, your sin remains.

      Salvation means a path to heaven was opened. This path is to repent, walk away from your sinfulness and overcome your sin! Your parish community will support you, once you choose that path to salvation. The church teaches that before you die, you have to confess your sin to a priest who will give you absolution. There is no other way to heaven.

      If you want to see the face of Jesus in your afterlife, then you have to get the foretaste right now while on earth. You have to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Your speculation is about defending a position that is empty from inside. being a Christina means that you walk away from your sinfulness, rather than dwell in it.

      All other is nothing but useless and vain misinterpretation of the Scriptures.

    2. Dear Anonymous at 9:50 am,

      Can you explain how he had drifted away from Church teaching when he has been quoting the Catechism of the Catholic Church and Vatican documents?

    3. Quoting and then misinterpreting. Nobody can interpret the Bible, but the Church. Your interpretations are speculative. You de-emphasize what Jesus emphasized and emphasize what Jesus de-emphasized. The result is a messed up line of priorities. Only the Church can show you the light out our your mess. Listen to the Pope and he will guide you back to the flock.

    4. Anon @ 9:50 am
      Also sin is not being glorified. We believe in purgatory. I don't think i need to quote church documents for this. This means one must go through purgatory to be purified of his sins and their consequences. Otherwise we wouldn't need purgatory.

    5. Anon @ 10:34 am
      Emphasize, de-emphasize? I think you're just looking for fancy way to discredit church doctrine. We've been quoting church documents you say it's wrong. We quote the pope you say it's wrong to look at Church documents.
      The funny thing is everything said is what the Church and Pope teaches. It molds together without contradiction. Why? Because it is the truth and tradition of the Church. Maybe the real issue here is that the only religion you will accept is the one you've created in your mind. To defend it you're willing to send the Jews to hell, Catholic faithful to hell and everyone that might contradict your religion.
      Or maybe just maybe it's a ploy by the jungle to discredit the NCW (as they have been doing from the beginning) and defame it. Just as what has been going on with the Sexual Abuse allegations, the RMS etc etc.
      Anyways, only God can judge us and he will always make justice in favor of the truth and the little ones. Time will tell.

    6. Anon @ 9:50 am
      Seems to me that your interpretation is vayne interpretation as it is convenient to you. Seeing that you did not provide any church documents that support your claims whatsoever.

  8. Anon @ 12:47pm:

    "Maybe the real issue here is that the only religion you will accept is the one you've created in your mind. To defend it you're willing to send the Jews to hell, Catholic faithful to hell and everyone that might contradict your religion."

    How did you come to this conclusion from what anon @ 5:45pm mentioned?

    I do not believe he/she desires the spiritual death of the children of the kingdom and those who truly seek God. In fact, I believe he/she wishes to save them because he/she believes that Jesus Christ is our savior. Jesus Christ is God and that Jesus Christ died and rose for our sins so that we may live and have eternal life.

    How can one be saved, if not by God himself? If not by the Word made flesh?

    If your argument is that the Jewish people can be saved simply by virtue of being a Jew. Can a Christian therefore expect salvation just because he claims to be a Christian? That seems contradictory don't you think?