I understand if the communication is via blogs....that's the nature of blogs. I'm talking about going out and facing the people, regularly, and answering questions to clarify issues. Yes, he'll have some opposition and it could be hard at first--but he's a leader and should face it head on. Besides, if this was done from the very beginning it wouldn't have come this far. It's not too late, though, and there are many of us who want desperately to hear from him! PLEASE, Archbishop! Don't let Diana's blog fight the battles because we don't know who is behind it and can't just rely on it for the TRUTH--we need our leader to do this! No more Diana's Blog to fight your battles, No more Jungle Watch to bring out documents damning the current administration!!
Dear Anonymous at 12:05 pm, What do you need to hear that has not already been said? It does not make any sense for the Archbishop to go from one village to another village to repeat the same thing over and over. There is a reason why we have the Umatuna and the PDN as well as the Archdiocese website.
Are you kidding me?! Rely on the media to tell me what's happening in the church? I respectfully disagree, Diana. If there is to be peace in our church, it makes a ton of sense for him to reach out to the people and pull us together. That's what a leader does.
Dear Anonymous at 5:44 pm, The Archbishop already came out and made it clear as to why he removed Father Paul and Monsignor James. What else are you expecting him to say?
WELL SAID!!!! :-)
Timmy and the jungle has been causing all the division. Now, he's written a letter to the Chief of Police requesting for the police report and all documents relating to Father Luis. He's using the Sunshine Act to get this information. Why can't he let Father Luis go? What has Father Luis done to him?
Dear Anonymous at 4:44 pm, You asked a good question. Why is he doing this to Father Luis? Under the Sunshine Reform Act of 1999 (which Tim Rohr is using), it also stated: § 10104. Limitation on Right of Inspection. (a) None of the following documents may be inspected and copied pursuant to § 10103 of this Chapter, unless permitted by any other law of Guam: (1) files involving the investigation of any person, real or legal, for the commission of any crime; provided, however, that this Section shall not affect the public or sealed nature of any documents filed with the courts in any action or proceeding; § 10108. Limitation on Right of Inspection. Except as provided in § 10109 of this Chapter, nothing in this Chapter shall be construed to require disclosure of records that are any of the following: (a) Records pertaining to pending litigation to which the agency is a party, until the pending litigation has been finally adjudicated or otherwise settled.
Unfortunately, due to little to no action being done by Archbishop Apuron on the Luis Camacho case, it seems the laity now has to take it upon their hands to get things moving. No more sweeping the dirt under the rug.
Dear Anonymous at 11:18 pm, And what exactly are you and your gang planning on doing? When you say that the laity has to take it upon their hands to get things moving.......does this mean "vigilante" style??
Vigilante style? I think you've been watching way too many movies Diana.
I read on the jungle that tim said if we have to lets take in the street and riot. if Rome don't do nothing. crazy
Anon 2:10 AM, I hadn't read that part, but read Patmos' comment in JW. PatmosApril 4, 2015 at 1:21 AMRome will not help. The time for waiting has passed. If we want to rid our church or corruption, we need to expel them ourselves. It needs to be US who pulls them off their thrones and into the jaws of justice where their punishment awaits.
Dear Anonymous 2:10 am and 7:08 am, Like I said below, "vigilante" style. It sounds like they are planning something similar to the French Revolution.
Spreading hatred is a sin. Spreading hatred towards Archbishop in the villages is a sin, dear Vangie. Sin has consequences.
I hope your not threatening Vangie under the guise of sin. Your comment is not only very unhealthy but shows no awareness of catholic teaching.
Dear Anonymous at 11:00 pm, Anonymous at 9:24 pm, said that spreading hatred is a sin. That is not a threat to anyone. He/she is stating a factual truth.
No one is spreading hatred to archbishop. Direct untruth Diana.
Question to the CCOG;If I have information that incriminates or is cause for scandal of a non-RMS formed Diocesan Cleric, how will your organization assist me? Will it be thrown under the rug? Will you deny ever receiving my report? Will you accuse me of being a liar? Will you accuse me of having ulterior motives?The CCOG does not exist to assist. It is not an unbiased group. In its mission statement nothing is mentioned from a General standpoint. They are more of a watchdog out to attack the NCW and the Archbishop. They should not refer to themselves as CONCERNED CATHOLICS because they do not represent the views of all the Catholics and are not open to assisting all catholics. Their village meetings have given the Archbishop every right to begin the process of excommunication of each of their members. If their existence as a group is allowed by Rome then Deacon Steve would not have been instructed by Rome to remove himself from the CCOG. The Village meetings are more of an attempt to build up the fight against the Archdiocese of Agana.Anon was right when he mentioned that sin has consequences. It is sin that motivates a person to make every attempt to be heard. It is sin that causes a person to think that all their work has gone in vain. It is sin.Im also assuming that this Anon is a neo. This would also prove another point to those who think Rohr was telling the truth when he constantly accuses the Neo of teaching false catholicism. IM A NEO AND I BELIEVE THAT SIN HAS CONSEQUENCES TOO!
Dear Anonymous at 11:54 pm, Calling the Archbishop evil incarnate is spreading hatred, and you see a lot of that in the jungle.
So we you have your private vigils at Bishop, who pays for that? The parents of the kids who attend that school? Just wondering how this works. Thanks
Dear Anonymous at 10:37 pm, My community have never had any Easter vigils at Bishop; however, we have had our one day conviviences at a Catholic school. The members would donate and the donation would go to the school in which they held their vigil or conviviences.
Ms. Diana - Where is the NCW's Easter Vigil going to be held at this year and what time will it start?
Dear Anonymous at 11:12 pm, That depends on the community of the Parish. Some communities start their vigil at 10:00 pm, others at 11:00 pm. Some are holding it at a hotel.
Can you provide some specifics for those who'd like to attend?
Yes Diana vigilante style. If Fr Luis is not investigated then who knows what can happen next. But with your blind obedience you couldn't care less and would let him babysit your kids if you were ordered. This is the problem. People have to know if he is a threat to minors and why he is in a vacation at the domus galileae.
Anon @ 10:37 and 11:02,I hope you realize that with your questions about the Vigils it proves a fact that you do not know what you are talking about. Youve probably heard about the vigil through the junglewatch or through others who also do not know the facts. I would like to share some facts with you.Not all parishes on the island have NCW communities. The ones that do have an NCW presence most likely have 8 or less communities, there are a few parishes that only have 1 or 2 communities. As mentioned in the Statutes of the NCW, the communities exist alongside the Parish, they are present to stimulate the celebrations of the Parish, the celebrations of the NCW Communities are part of the respective individual Parish.The Easter Vigil is the highest point of the Church Calendar, this is the night of all nights. Because of this there is much preparation that is involved. In a nutshell, the Liturgy of the Easter Vigil within the NCW is the same as any other Easter Vigil within the Parish. Each group of Communities within one parish gather together for this Easter Vigil. For Example, If Agana has 10 Communities, all 10 would gather for the Vigil. In the case of Inarajan who may have only 1 community, they will join together with another group of communities in another parish or they may just celebrate together with the regular scheduled parish vigil.You have to grasp the concept of the Intimate, small community celebrations in order to understand why some communities may have the need to utilize facilities other than the parish church. In most situations, the parishes have large church buildings, too big for the small groups of communities. If the communities were to celebrate in the church, there would be many unused pews/chairs. The environment of the worship space plays an important role in the beauty of the Liturgy. Empty pews/chairs are ugly. It has nothing to do with the parish floor plan not being, for lack of better words, "kiko approved". Because of this, Agana Communities may find the need to use the Bishop School Gym. They most likely would not inquire with the UOG fieldhouse because then you end up with the same scenario, too big of an area. It is true that some communities opt to use the ballrooms at various hotels. This again is chosen based on the needs of the community. Hotel Ballrooms are most expensive. Communities also run the risk of having to enter into a contract with the Hotel with a set rate. Some communities have no problem with this but there are still some smaller communities that cannot afford this option. Most schools only require a donation to assist with the utility costs and this is very beneficial to these smaller communities.The Vigil, like all other Mass Celebrations or Eucharistic Celebrations is open to all. All are welcome to attend the Eucharist within an NCW community at any time. The church encourages that at the Easter Vigil, there should always be those who are to receive the sacraments for the first time, such as Baptism and confirmation. This is why it is not uncommon to find parents waiting and willing to Baptize their child at the NCW Easter Vigil. Having atleast one Baptism at the Vigil brings life to the Liturgy at that given moment.I hope I have cleared up any misconceptions of the Easter Vigil. I hope that you realize you now have the whole truth and not just the half truths and lies of junglewatch.Lastly, although there may be many Easter Vigils celebrated at different times and at different places but all these Vigils unite us into one body, forming that ecclessial community.
Anon said : "No one is spreading hatred to archbishop. Direct untruth Diana." LOL LOL LOL. Is this anon living in Guam?
If they are open to all, why can't the locations be divulged?
Your Statutes do not give you permission to celebrate the Easter Vigil separately from the parish celebration. The GIRM requires that there is only one vigil celebration in the parish.
Dear Anonymous at 11:19 am, If you really want to attend, just ask the parish priest.
Who pays for these vigils in hotels? The money used to pay hotels should be used for the poor not expensive hotels.
Anon said..."The money used to pay hotels should be used for the poor and not expensive hotels...." Gosh, this sound so much like Judas!!! See John 12 …But Judas Iscariot, one of His disciples, who was intending to betray Him, said, "Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and given to poor people?" Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.… Amazing similarity
Where is all the money going collected Easter vigil hotels? We demand accounting for the thousands Usd collected tonight. what are you doing with Guam's money?
i belong to the Neocatechumenal Way. Why are 'they' so interested in our money? How we spend it is our business. Period.
Actually, no. If the NCW is a part of the parish, then allmoney collected should go through the parish. Simple
Dear Anonymous at 11:40 pm, I find it amazing how money has so much influence. Those who oppose the Way say that we are not Catholic or that we should form a separate Church. But when they hear that we can afford to spend thousands of dollars to pay for the hotel, suddenly we are part of the parish and think the money should go to the parish rather than the hotel.
Listen to yourself, "we can afford to spend thousands of dollars to pay for the hotel.".....What would Pope Francis say if you told him this? Really, Diana, give an honest answer. Don't forget. We are not in the upper East Side of Manhattan we are on a poor island. Well, at least you provided a job for someone.
Dear Anonymous at 10:39 am, That is an honest answer. I was the one who was there and heard the hotel bill. Even the Beginning of the Year retreat is always at a hotel. There are usually 200 people there and we stay at the retreat for three nights. Estimate how much you think a three night stay at a hotel would cost for 200 people.
According to your Statutes, you are nothing but a method of forming faith. You are not an organisation or association, As such, all collections, and management of other assets should be going through the parish. ie the parish should pay the bill and recover it from the "members". Not you Diana. This is why Cardinal Pell should be advised to look into the financial goings on of the NCW
Dear Anonymous at 11:44am, It is not your money. Why are you concern about our money?
Money belongs o Guam parishes. Our parishes need money to pay power bill . Our priests have no food because no money to shop in market. Why? NCW taking our resources for self interest paying hotels for vacations.
50,000 USD paid to hotels last night for Easter vigil. $50,000 could have been used for poor homeless. Do not neglect the poor. Do not remove the poor from the church. NCW turned away from the poor supporting five star hotels for rich and famous movie stars of Guam.
Dear Anonymous at 1:34 pm, There were people there who could not afford the three night stay. We paid for them as well so they could hear God's word and the good news. The Church is much more than feeding the poor. It was established to save souls.
Diana, you simply cannot defend this amount. You just can't.
Estimated between 35,000 Usd to 50,000 Usd collected Vigils. This money belongs to the parishes of the archdiocese not NCW. Parished need not support Charaties appeal as our money already went to support NCW five star hotel events.
By the way, it is soon tax day. Tim Rohr boasts so much that many people are supporting him financially. I wonder does he state all this money in his income tax returns that he is getting from our poor Guam people? A foreigner getting rich on us.
Waiting to see accounting of the money collected vigils? How much? How much costings?
Liz, we want to know about money you spent at vigil? poor of Guam could have been housed fed for one year with the money. it is not your money. It is the money of Catholic Church as it was given to the archdiocese of agana. it was not given to be spent at a five star Easter hotel vacation. Where is accounting of diocesan money. Money given for his trip? Liz, new cashee cashee....... Wink wink......
Dear Anonymous at 2:46 pm, Who is Liz? And it is not your money; therefore, it is none of your business. If the jungle folks can withhold their own money from contributing to the Annual Appeal, we in the NCW can do what we want with our own money.
But there is no NCW. It is a way of formation, not an organisation; not an association or incorporated body. There is no "us" to collect monies - it should all be handled by the parish - the same parish which, it is claimed, is where and how the NCW is implemented.
Repeat. By the way, it is soon tax day. Tim Rohr boasts so much that many people are supporting him financially. I wonder does he state all this money in his income tax returns that he is getting from our poor Guam people? A foreigner getting rich on us.
Like I said.....it is amazing that suddenly the NCW is part of the parish when they hear about the money the NCW have. Gone are the comments about forming a separate Church. :-)
That's what YOU have been claiming Diana, that the NCW is not separate, so why now is the collection "your own money"?
Dear Anonymous at 1:00 amBecause it is our money just as it was YOUR money when you did not want to donate to the Annual Appeals.
Diana @9:32,I believe the point is, if you are a part of the parish and not a separate organization, and using any money collected by parishioners (which your members are), then the monies should be accounted for. But if you are an organization, bonafide & registered, then you can do what you want with your money. As long as parish funds are not used (unless approved by the parish council). --Do all churches still have their parish councils? So, which is it?
Dear Anonymous at 10:36 am, I disagree. The money that I have in my purse belongs to me. Just because I am a parishioner does not mean that ALL money I have belongs to the church. The money I hold belongs to ME. And "I" decide where I put my money in. If I gave my money to the Parish, then it is NO LONGER mine. By freely giving to the parish my money, the money I donate now belongs to the parish. Therefore, the money I gave to pay my hotel room and meals belongs to the hotel for the services I received from them. I am not giving my money to the NCW or the parish. I gave it to the hotel who accommodated my stay at the hotel
Anon @10:36If you and a couple of other ministers, lets say the "Choir", decide to take Father Jimmy out to a nice restaurant for his birthday and have prearranged to split the bill among everyone present, do you have to report this to the parish? did you get approval from the council? I dont think so.Yet,according to your standards you should, right? Dont make a big deal of nothing. It doesnt matter whether the NCW uses a Hotel or a Gym. If they gather and have a bill to pay, they should pay. In this case, the bill is split equally among everyone present. Those who can give, give. Those who cant, its understood. Some give more than enough to supplement the shortage. Only the amount needed to pay the bill is collected.Also, FYI. The parishes do not rely on the PARISH COUNCIL for approval of expenses. This is not the role of the parish council. Every parish is REQUIRED to have a FINANCE COUNCIL to ensure that all finances are handled accordingly. Parish Councils are not required by church law. If you ever bother to check into this, most "Neo" parishes do have a Finance Council, and guess what? The members are majority Non-Neos. Tell me now, whether the NCW has control of parish funds?I want to add that other Anons have commented that instead of the NCW spending so much money at these Hotels, they should instead give it to the poor. I agree, but lets apply this standard to everyone. This would include all the priests who favor dining at the high end resturaunts on Guam, to include Roys, Islander Terrace and frequently Joinus. This would include all the priests who enjoy taking trips to manila for some pampering and staying at the luxurious Shangri-La or the Intercontinental Hotels. If you want to impose standards lets do it across the board. No exceptions!
Anon @10:54:What a very mean-spirited response! It is evident you are filled with anger--even making it personal...and sadly, your comments re restaurants/travel/hotels can be attributed to our Archbishop and Neo priests as well so I don't go there. I agree that expenditures need to be moderated....by all. My post was seeking clarification, not to incur the wrath of anyone! I have another question: Why don't the Neos just celebrate in their Parish and use their donated money towards Parish expenses? That's a lot of money to spend on a hotel ballroom and I hear the Cathedral Basilica's AC is giving them trouble, etc.Please don't bite my head off for asking....
Dear Anonymous at 2:06 pm,That was not a mean-spirited response. How many times did I tell you that it is not the Parish' money? And why is it that those who oppose the Way always insist that we follow them? You ask why not celebrate in the Parish??? How do you have a three day retreat in the parish? Where are 200 people going to sleep in the parish, and how can we celebrate without disrupting the Mass that the parish holds??????
Anon @2:06:My response to you was not intended to be mean-spirited. You were almost certain that your implications were true. You stated that the NCW is using parish funds. I gave you the truth. The NCW does not use Parish Funds. You will also come to find out that the parishes with NCW presence actually receive assistance from the NCW members, free of charge. This also includes materials and supplies for repairs and maintenance to some church property.Also, I am in an NCW community and I am the only "neo" member of my parish Finance Council. I share this to show to you that although the buck stops with the Pastor, he is dependent on the advise of his FINANCE COUNCIL. All expenses are made aware to the council, I am almost certain that most Finance Councils would deny spending large amounts on the NCW. No where in my comment did I assume to attack anyone personally. It would make sense that if you took my comments about clergy spending personally, then you must be clergy. I did not make a distinction as to who exactly is spending at high end restaurants. When I use the word clergy it is inclusive of all. They are one, right? Im glad you did not deny the fact that there could be a bit more moderate spending styles of our priests. My example of the 'Choir" was forth straight. The Choir is a group of people under the umbrella of the Parish, so is the NCW. I think my example was very fitting. You go on to ask about the NCW not utilizing the Parish building(s). In fact, most NCW communities do opt to use the parish building(s) more than often. There are certain activities though that do require the communities to go beyond the Parish. As mentioned by Diana, we may need a certain time to find a place where we can sleep overnight for up to three nights and three days, we will need three meals a day and an adequately sized meeting room for group gatherings. Please tell me of a parish that can accommodate this. In the past there were several communities that utilized the Carmel Retreat Center. It would have been nice if we could still use that place but according to Sr. Francine, Msgr. James decided to use the best part of the retreat house for the JPII Seminary. Thereby creating a flaw in the amenities for retreats. Several of the Chapels are also used by some communities for one day retreats. In one of my earlier posts I shared why the MAIN CHURCH of the Parish is sometimes not suitable for some celebrations. Despite this, you will find that some of the smaller communities belonging to smaller parishes actually utilize the church, because it is adequate for them.Again, Im only stating the truth and not out of anger. I may be a little irritated at the amount of ignorance that is circulating around about the NCW but I hope you realize that there is no need for us to be lying.If you have any other questions I can freely answer and enter into a mannered dialogue. To save you the trouble of asking one of the more popular questions I will go ahead and give you an answer here to start.The manner in which we receive the host standing in our place has been approved by Rome as stated in the Statutes. I sit to consume the host as it has also been approved by Rome according to my catechists whom I trust wholeheartedly. If Rome has decided otherwise and instructs the NCW to consume while still standing then I will oblige.Now lets talk about something else.
Thank you for your response clarifying things regarding logistics for the ceremonies, and NCWpresence in parish churches. And, no, I am not clergy....my comment regarding your making it 'personal' is attributed to your naming a priest and some specific locations. And yes, I did understand your reference to 'choir'.I'm sure the parishes appreciate the NCW members' assistance "free of charge". And I am sorry you are irritated with the ignorance you encounter (mine included). But when you seek to change things, or do things differently, that comes with the territory: repeated questions, misunderstandings, hateful remarks, incorrect assumptions---the whole gamut.
Anon @9:43:Im glad you bring up the "seek to change things".Let me first share that I am well versed on church doctrine and especially knowledgeable on the liturgical celebrations. Although I have no formal teaching I have instead learned from personal study and through our local priests. I wasnt one to go with the flow, I always wanted to know why I do this and that during Mass.In regards to "change", the NCW does not seek to change anything. The doctrines of the church will always remain and there is nothing that anyone can ever do about that. It would take God the Father to visit us again and rewrite the entire the Bible before the doctrines change. What the NCW has done and is doing, is they are utilizing the "and, or" or the "alternate" approaches to certain aspects of the Liturgy. What most would consider "change" or "different" is actually allowed but because it has rarely been done is not considered normal. For instance, the church actually has a Rite of Penitential for a large group or More than one Penitent. This Rite is not widely used in the Parish but is the main Rite that is used for the NCW. Because of this, critics have gone on to say that in the NCW you get up in front of everyone and confess your sins. This is true in that during this Rite the Priests are gathered towards the front of the congregation but it is also FALSE in that when the Penitent approaches the Priest, only the priest hears the confession and not the whole congregation. I hope it is evident to you that what the critics offer you are only half truths of the NCW and only the truth that swings their way.Yes I have received my share of hateful remarks, repeated questions and incorrect assumptions but it is not this that irritates me. It is when the truth is presented and critics indulge in the assumption that members of the NCW are brainwashed therefore the truth is disregarded even further.The resistance towards the NCW is expected. It(NCW) is something great and is helping people in large numbers. This will always be seen as a threat to people who are not used to the boat being shaken or traditionalists who by instinct do not adapt to change comfortably. Change is not wrong but often it is different and this takes getting used to.If you want to learn more about the NCW I invite you to read more about the RCIA and its various steps. I also invite you to read the Acts of the Apostles and you will begin to understand why the NCW is vital for our times.
My mother is a sensible old woman. “When you have an issue in life, ask the specialists to help you. They know the answer. Do not go to people who think they know but do not have a clue what they are speaking about! Go to the experts!” This advice of my mother has always helped me in life.In Guam we have had our fair share of criticism about our liturgies. Certain people have been harping persistently and tediously on the fact that we sit when we are receiving communion in the Eucharist we celebrate in community. As if this is the biggest evil in the whole world. And they have written volumes to rationalize that this shows lack respect of the Eucharist, that we do not believe in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ, that we are not following the Statutes, that we are bad. Baloney!I just came across an interview on Vatican Radio of the former Prefect of the Congregation for Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Cardinal Antonio Canizares. He is a real expert on liturgy!He says verbatim, "I think the relationship between catechesis and liturgy in the Neocatechumenal Way is exemplary." In the catechumenate, the different stages were marked by celebrations specific to each stage of preparation. The Neocatechumenal Way does the same.
Diana are you aware Who Holy Father met with today?