Pope Francis:
- Makes it clear that he did NOT call the meeting.
- Makes it clear that he is NOT personally sending the "missionaries" anywhere.
- Makes it clear that he is not happy with the shenanigans of the NCW leadership by joking that he was "paid" to show up.
- Makes it clear that the "missionaries" are supposed to go to non-Christian lands (not to Catholic parishes like ours).
The following are refutable comments from the Pope's speech to the NCW. You can find the Pope's words in his speech to the NCW here.
1. Jungle: Makes it clear that he did not call the meeting.
Pope Francis: "our meeting today is a missionary sending, IN OBEDIENCE TO WHAT CHRIST REQUESTED and what we heard in the Gospel."
2. Jungle: Makes it clear that he is NOT personally sending the "missionaries" anywhere.
Makes it clear that he (through the form of the bishops that he has appointed) is personally sending the "missionaries".
Pope Francis: "These communities, called by the Bishops,...with a MANDATE to evangelize non-Christians....." (including the baptized).
Pope Francis: "How much joy you give us with your presence and your activity!" - said Blessed Pope Paul VI during the very first audience with you (May 8, 1974; Teachings of Pope Paul VI, XII [1974], 407). I also make these words my own and encourage YOU TO GO FORWARD......"
3. Jungle: Makes it clear that he is not happy with the shenanigans of the NCW leadership by joking that he was "paid" to show up.
Pope Francis: "I'm doing it because I want to............
In particular I greet the initiators of the Neocatechumenal Way, Kiko Arguello and Carmen Hernandez, with Father Mario Pezzi: I also would like to EXPRESS MY APPRECIATION and my encouragement for the great benefit they bring to the Church through the Way."
4. Jungle: Makes it clear that the "missionaries" are supposed to go to non-Christian lands (not to Catholic parishes like ours).
Pope Francis: "I have insisted on the need that the Church has to move from a pastoral ministry of mere conservation to a decidedly missionary pastoral ministry (Cf. Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii gaudium, 15)"
and as earlier noted,
"These communities, called by the Bishops,...with a mandate to evangelize non-Christians........."(including the baptized)"
The Pope could not be any clearer. He confirms us. He supports us. He blesses us.
Pope Francis: "And I want to confirm your call, to support your mission, to bless your charism."
tim the pope latest gospel on PDN
ReplyDeleteIn matters of the environment and economic systems and other matters that do not fall in the "intrinsic" or dogma category, while being required to give due consideration to a papal "view" and embrace the more universal aspects of an issue (such as a general concern for the environment and care for the poor), Catholics are NOT obliged to conform to what the pope thinks on these things.
Is this guy Catholic? Are we supposed to follow the Pope only when it suits our intellectual comfort?
Hello!
DeleteRohr is a Narcissist. He has a problem with everything. He has even openly stated that the United States Conference of CATHOLIC BISHOPS is CORRUPT. Everyone is "bad ass" over the internet. In person, well we cant go there, he has yet to meet personally with any of the people that he repeatedly criticizes on his blog. He has to stop writing letters and just go and clear the record with these people. Has he met with the Archbishop? Fr. Pius? Fr. Edivaldo? Fr. Adrian? Msgr. David? Finance Council? Rector of the RMS? Responsibles and Catechists of NCW? Kiko, Carmen, Fr. Mario?
So sad that people are victims of his scheme to take over the church on Guam. No one can control this guy.
Uh hello Anon @ 1:56 PM...for what reason would Tim have to take over the church on Guam? It's really Kiko who's using our innocent people for HIS scheme to take over the Catholic Church on Guam.
DeleteAnd may I ask where is Archbishop Apuron in all of this? Why doesn't he stand up and face the people?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:43 pm,
DeleteExperience has shown that when the Archbishop stood up to give an answer, he was called a liar. For example, they asked him who owns the seminary in Yona. He said that the title lists the Archdiocese of Agana as the owner. But they still called him a liar.
So better to coward when called a liar? What about Jesus's example of courage.
DeleteDear Diana @ 9:16,
DeleteWEAK reason for the Archbishop to not come forth! He is the leader of our Church on Guam! He needs to come forth and fight for what he believes is the right way to lead us. I'm sorry, but we have a serious problem here and he needs to give those of us in the middle confidence that he is on top of things and is handling everything. As it is right now, NOTHING!
If you all follow the Pope, why do you need Kiko??
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 7:00 am,
DeleteKiko Arguello was called by God to be the founder of the Neocatechumenal Way. If you look at Catholic History, God has always called people to do His will by establishing some organization to help His people. St. Francis of Assisi founded the Franciscan Order. Blessed Mother Teresa founded the Missionaries of Charity. Josemaria Escriva was the founder of Opus Dei, who also have their own Statutes.
Kiko Arguello is not the same level of person as any of those you list . Kiko cannot be compared with st. Josemaria.
DeleteDon't be stupid. Kiko was not inspired by the Holy Spirit to be the founder. Kiko manipulated himself and this group to gain wealth, power, and money. Movement is not of the Holy Spirit for the movement brings only division to the church. A movement causing division is not of the Holy Spirit.
DeleteWhy can we just go back to the way our Church use to be - Traditional? Why do you need someone to show you a different way of attending mass? It's sad to see the division of our Church especially here on Guam. We've always been strong as a people. I'm just a very old fashion individual and I'm used to the way my mother and father taught me about the teachings of our Church.
ReplyDeleteTun Pedro Santos
Dear Tun Pedro Santos,
DeleteBefore the NCW came to Guam, did your tradition go out to evangelize??? Guam used to be 98% Catholic. Then the Protestant Christians and the Jehovah Witnesses came. They went out to evangelize and took away many of our Catholic brothers that Guam dwindled down to 85% Catholic. Did your tradition do anything to bring them back or even to keep them from straying??? Did your tradition go out to evangelize???
Then for heaven's sake Diana, why don't you go and bring THEM back!! Why are you evangelizing to those IN the church. I just don't get it.
DeleteGood answer
DeleteHAHAHAHA...dumbest thing i ever read. Why would there be a need to evangelize to a island that is 98% Catholic.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:00 am,
DeleteYou did not read my entire comment did you? We are no longer 98% Catholic due to the evangelization of the Protestants and non-Christians on our island. When our Catholic brothers started going to them, did you evangelize to get them back? Did you evangelize to convert any non-Christian or non-Catholic?
What is the NCW doing to evangelize non-Christians or non-Catholics?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:24 pm,
DeleteEvangelization takes place after Easter. The communities either have the Great Mission or go out in two by twos. As for evangelizing in non-Christian countries, from what I understand, Guam is not yet ready for that. I may be wrong about this so if the brothers in the Way can correct me on it, it would be most helpful. Families and itinerants have be to properly prepared if they are to evangelize to non-Christians in other countries.
What is the Great Mission?
DeleteAnon 7:55,
ReplyDeleteThere is only a division because of DISOBEDIENCE.
I remember asking my parish priest in California what he thought when his bishop asked him to move to another parish in another state. He responded with "I am not a big fan of the decision. But he is my bishop, and I have to trust that God has ultimate control over it."
That's the mentality that the priests and deacons need to have.
You people who follow Tim Rohr, and call yourself Catholic are the ones who are truly brainwashed.
DeleteObedience yes. But not Blind obedience to Bishops who have lost their capacity to lead.
and who are you father blockley to judge? Are you self appointed?
DeleteI'm inspired by the Holy Spirit.
DeleteMost things I do are self appointed.
DeleteBlockley. your Blind by Tim Rohr
DeleteNow, Diana, i have a question since you did no tpost my previous comment on the Camacho fiasco, where is Fr. Camacho...where are you hiding him... I knew it would happen. In the eyes of the law, if there is a pending case, and is off island, that is labelled 'flight from law" and he is considered a fugitive priest
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:03 am,
DeleteIs the law looking for him? Do you see any wanted posters of him by GPD or the FBI? If not, what business do you have of asking?
Archdiocese of Agana and Chalan Kanoa are in total moral disaster crisis of no leadership. We are simply doing a small part in restoring order and dignity into a local church leadership which is so screwed up now we need new bishops.
DeleteJust asking, Diana, (Jungle watch comment)
Delete"First of all, it needs to be absolutely established that charges against Camacho were "dropped". If so, then for him to "travel" to a foreign country should be okay. However, if the charges are still pending, Camacho should have remained on Guam to answer to those charges, and by having AAA "assist" him in getting out of here, AAA has committed a criminal act. Aiding and Abetting is a CRIME and since it deals with travel to a foreign country, the Federal Bureau of Investigation should be involved."
Church law.
DeleteDear Father Matthew Blockley,
DeleteYou are not the Pope. Only the Pope can appoint a new Bishop to Chalan Kanoa, and only the Pope can remove the Archbishop of Guam.
The pope will appoint new bishops Diana. The sees are Vacant!!!!!
Deletefr blockley go back to your seminary learn respect . You are a very disrespectful priest.
DeleteReported you to Archbishop Krebs
I don't follow anyone, except the teachings of our Catholic faith.
ReplyDeleteYou have so much anger.
Tun Pedro Santos
Dear Tun Pedro Santos,
DeleteThe teachings of the Church says to obey and respect your Bishop.
Diana, the teachings of the church says to obey and respect your priest too. The same teaching my parents taught me. More importantly, my parents taught me how to survive in this unpredictable world....same way they survived during the war. If I totally went by the teachings of respecting your priest and ignored the teachings of my parents on how to survived, my younger sister would have been a victim to sexual assault by our parish priest. Priests, teachers, law enforcement personnel, etc. are all reputable people of trust in our community. Unfortunately, some of them have made the ultimate mistake by using their position to hurt others.
DeleteRespect is a two-way street Diana. How can the bishop be respected when he fails to respect all of his people. And to think his motto is "Servus Tuus". How can you be so blind?
DeleteGOD's Church
DeleteDiana, you're too stupid to see that this bishop is a failure, a liar, a cheat, lacking in morals and any ability to lead and shepherd and has sold his soul to Lucifer and you're following blindly. Only a VERY stupid person like you would obey and respect Someone like that. Yes, go ahead and follow your real father. Why do you persist on being willlfully ignorant and spreading a false religion and false god on Guam? Everyone knows already that the NCW is a cult and only wants money. Get out now while you can, save yourself and your family from feeling the embrace of Lucifer! That will be the judgement you will receive for your very grave sin of leading people to hell with this blog full of lies once you and all NCW cultists pass from this life! Repent now, it's not too late!
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:13 am,
DeleteYou stated: "Diana, you're too stupid to see that this bishop is a failure, a liar, a cheat, lacking in morals and any ability to lead and shepherd and has sold his soul to Lucifer and you're following blindly."
You mean like the Apostle Peter who denied Christ three times and was found to have Satan in him....that Christ had to say "Get behind me, Satan." to Peter???
Who are you, Anonymous at 8:13 am?? A saint??? The fact that you have resorted to name-calling and degrading the commenter is the moment you have already lost this discussion.
Dear Anonymous at 10:28 pm,
DeleteYou stated: Respect is a two-way street Diana.
That is not Catholic teaching. That is secular teaching. The Church teaches us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. So, regardless of whether one is bad and disrespectful to us, we are called to be kind and respectful to them anyway. That is Catholic teaching.
Diana, if you can liken yourself to the Apostle Peter then yes, I am a Saint! All things being equal, of course.
DeleteAlso, I wasnt name calling. I was fact stating in the vernacular. Is not someone, like yourself, who follow a Bishop that possess the unholy qualities I described above lacking in intelligence or common sense?
Stop trying to tell people to obey and respect Lucifer. Instead tell them to follow Jesus! Repent Diana, it's really not too late! Dust off from your sandals this satanic cult and save yourself and many others the judgement of hell.
Dear Anonymous at 10:04 am,
DeleteA saint does not judge. And I never told anyone to obey and respect Lucifer. I said to obey and respect the Archbishop just as the Catholic Church teaches. The fact that you already see the Archbishop as Lucifer says more about you than about him.
8:13 AM Is that you TIM ){:-(
DeleteDifferent situation and circumstances Anon 8:25. Was the parish priest you spoke to also slandered and accused of building a secret stairway? Was he locked out of his office before he could pack up and leave? Was that priest told to find another bishop who would take him?
ReplyDeleteObedience is required when your bishop asks you to move because theres a pastoral need elsewhere. Who can argue with that? There should be no reason for that priest to be disobedient. Ask your parish priest what he would do if those things happened to him and report back to us.
Instead of talking about the mentality that priests need to have, shouldn't you also be talking about the mentality that bishops need to have? Or better yet, you shouldn't be talking at all especially if you don't know what you are saying and your comparative reasoning is lacking.
It's people like you who are brainwashed from birth and bad parenting that think you were born to be judge and jury. Yes, you're the perfect example of a Catholic. Is that what you want to hear?
ReplyDeleteTun Pedro Santos
You and I will always be eternally grateful to our parents who guided us in faith. We may also both agree that when they brought us to Church; we saw their practice of faith was done in reverence and not obligation.
Throughout the Japanese occupation and years of war; they did not have priest or mass at the church. Maybe a bible or two that was probably hidden. Those faithful who survived became witnesses that the Word of God sustains as they lived in fear of constant death. Many did not have an education, many could not read but they worshipped and prayed as they knew how.
This Tun Pedro was the faith of our parents; our grandparents. We cannot say honestly that we can relate or understand their experiences. Why? We're not living in oppressed occupation or war.
Compare their suffering to ours today. Many people who have committed murder; child and family abuse, neglect their children; put their parents away; don't get along with their own parents and siblings call themselves Catholic. We can also include the people who have committed suicide.
It is better to talk to the person rather than ordering people what to do.
ReplyDeleteI'm curious: has any other organization/movement/group (whatever you want to call it) ever caused so much controversy in the Catholic religion? Require so much change (in music, artwork, practices, etc)?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 5:46 pm,
DeleteThe Franciscans were persecuted, then the Dominicans, and also the Jesuits.
All the apostles were killed; Jesus was crucified; what sort of details do you want?
DeleteThank you, but I guess I wasn't clear enough--I meant within the Catholic religion. I apologize.
DeleteHas there been any Catholic organization/movement/group that has caused so much controversy? As in they want to change things or do things differently? (Please forgive my limited knowledge in the history of Catholicism.)
Dear Anonymous at 9:19 pm,
DeleteThe answers have already been given to you. The Franciscans, Dominicans, and Jesuits were all groups within the Catholic Church. The reason for the hatred for the NCW is not because we are doing things differentt because the things we practice were things that the Early Christians practiced. The reason is due to envy and jealousy. We have the most seminaries in the Catholic Church, and there is a growing number of mission families, itinerants, and vocations. The Jesuits were also persecuted within the Catholic Church because they built many schools and vocations. They were very active in evangelization.
AnonymousApril 1, 2015 at 9:46 AM
ReplyDeleteRemember give God what is Gods and give Cesar what is Cesar? The business for the Church on Guam is the responsibility of the Arch Bishop. We may criticize all we want but your way is not may way.....
People are straying away from our Church because we have so much controversy within our Church. Please Archbishop Apuron do the right thing and heal our Church. I miss Archbishop Felixberto Flores.
ReplyDeleteTun Pedro Santos
When I drive by the statue of Flores, I'm reminded that he was also not a saint. sorry.
DeleteAnon, 2:08, our teachings of the church is to respect our Archbishop. That includes Archbishop Flores too!
DeleteHi 9:19, actually Diana answered that Questiin awhile back as well - when asked what other movement ever had its own mass, almost similar to being controversial in itself. Apparently that was one of the most controversial groups of all time. I think Diana wrote a whole article about them.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Anon @7:53,
DeleteI am new to this blog so did not read that. What is the post titled? I'd love to read it.
Dear Anonymous at 9:00 am,
DeleteI wrote two entry posts on the Jesuits. You can find them in the following weblinks below:
http://neocatechemunal.blogspot.com/2014/04/sound-familiar.html
http://neocatechemunal.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-jesuits.html
Thank you for this!
DeleteThis may be off topic but I need to say it.
ReplyDeleteLast Monday I was at the Cathedral the funeral mass of the beloved Mr. Jerry Calvo. I saw Mgr. David, the Rector, approaching the Knights and he warmly greeted them. All of us appreciated this kind gesture except one of us who very rudely refused to shake hands with him and he (the Knight) mumbled something to Monsignor which I did not grasp. Mgr. David was visibly shaken.
This is totally unacceptable for any Christian, let alone for a Knight.
I am a Knight myself. And I was doubting whether I should put this on a public forum. But I was so scandalized by what I saw that I decided to go ahead and publish it for the sake of fairness.
Maybe the timing was off, but no need to be fake with each other, that's the problem. Have courage and face the enemy within.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 5:19 pm,
DeleteAnonymous at 11:15 pm, was correct. It was a very unchristian thing to do especially for a Knight of Columbus. Christ said to love your neighbor and to love your enemies.
Dear Diana, he was not a Knight of Colombus. He was a Knight of St. Sylvester.
DeleteWhat irks me is the fact that many have been forced to believe that the cause of this division in our Catholic Church is the fault of the Archbishop.
ReplyDeleteThis is not so.
Archbishop took steps to hem the hemorrhage of the Church. One priest was harboring a person who is on the sexual offender list, a rapist and a murderer. The other was mishandling Church funds.
The fact that these priests were popular does not exempt them from being disciplined. Archbishop tried to do it quietly and discreetly. Taking advantage of their popularity, both priests went to the media and turned the tables against their lawful superior, who was duty bound to take action.
These are the simple facts that have been clouded by lies and misinterpretations against Archbishop.
But truth will prevail.
Dear Anon @6:39,
DeleteRemember, it was the Archbishop who first approved the man's employment with the church. And the man has done his time and is trying to better his life through Christ...we should pray for his success.
The mishandling of church funds is a one-sided view...both sides have documents that will support their claim. Have you inspected both to be able to judge?
I blame the Archbishop because he is the Father of our Catholic family on Guam, and I see a big problem here. The proverbial 'buck stops here' falls on him. Yet, I don't see him fighting to keep us together! I am not a Neo, nor am I on the other side either--there are MANY of us who try to remain in the middle. The Archbishop has not taken a leader's stance to reassure us that he has things under control. On the contrary, my friend, things are very much out of control.
May God bless us all with peace...soon!
Anon 6:39, it comes with the position, Leadership 101. If good things happen in the Catholic Church, the Archbishop gets praised and recognized. If things go wrong, he gets blamed. As a leader, you have to deal with both sides.
DeleteAs for the priest harboring a sex offender, you definitely cannot put total blame on him. The Archbishop agreed to have him serve his probation at Santa Barbara. Actually, he signed the agreement. If he is so concern about the safety of the parishioners and neighboring kids at Santa Barbara School, then why did he agree to the probation agreement. He should have challenged it and discussed it with the judge. I know some are stating that he had no control of the probation agreement, which I don't believe, why did he wait years after the completion of his probationary period to notify the priest at Santa Barbara? Yes, the priest a Santa Barbara should be counselled and disciplined for disobeying the Archbishop, but, the Archbishop should also take some heat for allowing the parishioners and school children to be in harms way for many years. He is the leader, so he should take the heat too.
Now, if you are so concerned about sex offenders in the community, why are you not bringing up the subjects about the priest from Los Angeles and the priest found with the minor in Agat? Obviously, you are one sided and choose to pick your cases. Safety and security applies to all, not just the few.
Dear Anonymous at 9:14 am,
DeleteEven if the Archbishop agreed at one time to have Mr. Lastimosa serve his probation at Santa Barbara Church, he is entitled to change his mind once his probation is completed. Therefore, he is not to be blamed, but should be obeyed. The fact that Father Paul had him hanging around doing the same things he has been doing (despite that he terminated him) does not APPEAR well for Father Paul. Appearance matters. Perhaps, if Father Paul had approached the Archbishop and introduced Lastimosa to him so the Archbishop would know him better as Father Paul had come to know him, things might have been different.
As for Father John and Father Lius, how were they treated differently? Father John was removed and he chose to leave. Father Luis resigned and he was restricted from performing his priestly duties.
RIGHT ON!!!!! 6: 39 AM can't be explained more then that. but you can't tell the jungle that . and FR. matthew Blockley this is how you talk about the bishop maybe you need to resign
DeleteHypocritical, don't you think? The Archbishop once hired this sex offender to fulfill his community service requirement. Why wasn't he concerned about the safety of children back then? But he was quick to rid Fr Paul without giving him due process. Rather he was told to resign immediately or face " a painful and arduous" closure to his assignment. Then, you have a priest who was given restricted faculties for committing a crime and a priest who was allowed to serve on Guam who was ban from several dioceses. Double standards?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 9:08 am,
DeleteI disagree. Each case is different and should always be looked at individually. Joseph Lastimosa is a CONVICTED sex offender and murderer. Father John was never convicted nor arrested. In our country, a person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Father Luis, on the other hand, was not charged with any sex crime, but of custodial interference. All three are not the same case.
They asked for transparency. Archbishop gave out specific details of the corruption at the Cathedral. These same persons then accused him of being vindictive.
ReplyDeleteObedience and Parrhesia
ReplyDeleteI remember being told of one of the Welsh bishops being with the rest of the Bishop's Conference at the English College, they all went out to dinner in small groups but left him in the College alone, they were side-lining him. One of my friends, then a student, now long since ordained, felt so sorry for him, he gathered a small group of his fellows and took him out for a drink. Clergy, even Bishops can be unpleasant, just like little children in their excluding of someone with whom they disagree, especially if they are being called to obedience in Christ and to a more rigorous path.
Cardinal Burke since his sacking from the Signatura has apparently lost his smallish salary but more significantly his office and secretarial help but I suspect the thing that really hurts isn't that, or the public humiliation in front of the whole Church but it is the realisation that former friends and colleagues are no longer that friendly, and others just ignore you. Being 'excluded' is my idea of hell.
'Exclusion' is the Church's way of disciplining people, properly after just trial, if the situation merits it. I know of a Greek bishop whose brother is a little more than slightly mad but also a bishop, every so often they fall out and strike one another from the diptychs. The Patriarch of Constantinople was 'struck' a few years ago from the diptychs of the Metropolitan of Athens over some dispute. How that effected the reception of Communion by the average Greek Orthodox I don't know but formally it meant that if you were in Communion with a bishop who was not mentioned in the reading of the diptychs before Mass, you were not welcomed to communion. Such 'strikings', as in the Athenian case and the case of the two brothers seem easily repaired, often they are a bargaining tool in an ongoing internecine spat.
.....continued next post......
....continuation....
ReplyDeleteIt would be wonderful if Christians always got on together but we care deeply about things and most especially we care about the truth, like many a married couple we will always bicker, Like some married couples we might even throw the crockery about, we have to speak with parrhesia, openly, frankly, as His Holiness reminds us.
Thinking about the email from Fr Anonymous, published by the Remnant, I continue to find it deeply disturbing, more so today than when I first read it. Priests and bishops are married to the Church, we cannot simply, 'leave the ministry' give up. We can do that no more than a married couple can give up. That is disturbing but it is also the anonymity of the priest that is worrying. Conscience should compel this priest not to be anonymous, the Holy Spirit demands we risk all for Christ's sake, even being excluded, the Gospel demands it. I have had that icon of the new Coptic martyrs on my desk, priest's should have the same courage to speak out, we are supposed to prophetically denounce sin and evil, especially if the cost is often simply human respect if do, but we are continually told it could cost heaven if we don't.
Being a bishop should be like herding cats. Love unites us in obedience to our Bishop and to the Pope but first we are servants of Christ and his Gospel, if we don't defend him and his teaching we are no more than hirelings. As the Holy Father reminds us we should speak frankly with our Father's in God, we are supposed to be son not cowering surfs, that might be a positive quality of an employee of a multi-national corporation but not in a member of the Church, for a Christian it is a sin. In the same way religious obedience, the promise we priest's take demands that we do not allow our superiors to risk their souls and the souls they are entrusted with by Christ, they are supposed to lead their flock to Heaven not to Hell. What son would watch his father fall into sin and do nothing, what priest would do it? The terrifying answer is, many would.
Cardinal Burke last Tuesday called us priests to use every means we can to safeguard the teaching of the Church, I urge any reader to do the same, even if it risks getting our heads cut off or being crowned with thorns.
by:Fr Ray Blake