And by the way. In case you haven’t heard, there is a new group on Guam that also believes in open dialogue. They recently formed Concerned Catholics of Guam to try and help our local Church. The Articles of Incorporation state that the “primary purpose of the Corporation is to defend, … promote, … and develop the Catholic Faith…” These are lofty goals for an organization. These are ideals I have proudly affixed my name to. Let us pray for their success, and let us look to their example of communication as a way to solve our problems.
I am so sorry, but the deacon's letter reeks of hypocrisy. He says that CCOG believes in open dialogue. REALLY? When the Archbishop asked CCOG to meet with him, why did they fail to show? So, much for their open dialogue! Then the deacon states that CCOG was formed to help our local church and goes on to state their primary purpose. I guess the deacon needed to be reminded of what their press release stated. According to the press release of CCOG, their vice-president, David Sablan stated:
"Statements coming from the archdiocese cannot be relied upon, unfortunately, in light of all that has occurred these couple of years."
So, all statements made by the Archbishop and those coming from the Archdiocese are not to be relied on. In other words, they have already branded the Archdiocese "liars" without even having their FIRST open dialogue with them. How did they DETERMINE the Archdiocese to be unreliable when they have not even had their first open dialogue with them......inquiring minds wants to know? CCOG claimed that they were formed because some Catholics are confused about the things going on in our local Church, and they want to know the truth. Well, apparently, they do not appear confused to determine that the Archdiose is unreliable. So, who do they find reliable and how did they determine that?
And who are they supposed to have this open dialogue with?? Certainly not the Archdiocese whom they already labeled as "unreliable". Let us be honest here. Their goal was never to defend, promote, and develop the Catholic faith as Deacon Steve Martinez declared. Their REAL goal is to remove Archbishop Apuron and reinstate Father Paul and Monsignor James. Their real agenda is to destroy the Catholic Church, especially the Neocatechumenal Way.
Furthermore, while Deacon Steve Martinez promoted the CCOG in the last paragraph of his letter, he vilified the Archbishop in the fourth paragraph. According to the deacon's letter:
"Perhaps worst of all is a leader who confronts questions of their policy with arrogant silence."
Is this how the CCOG supposed to start their first open dialogue to the Archdiocese they plan to investigate? An open dialogue starts with an open mind. Deacon Steve Martinez has until January 19, 2015 to decide whether he wants to become a treasurer of CCOG or a deacon. Such a difficult decision for him to make.......money or to serve God??
Wow! You're definitely scrambling and grasping at straws, Diana.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:33 am,
DeleteThe truth hurts, doesn't it?
Their Real Agenda is to destroy the Catholic Church? Deacon's decision is money or to serve God? Are you just ranting or do you really think your post serves a useful purpose? I am in the middle of this mess by the way, and I really do not see how either side can claim to be behaving in a manner that is consistent with what you preach on a daily basis.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 11:58 am.,
DeleteIf you are in the middle as you say, then have you already gone to the jungle and told them this same thing you are telling me?? Or are you only telling me?
My post asks a couple ofchallenging questions? These questions are 1) If they truly stand for open dialogue, then why did they refuse to meet with the Archbishop when he asked them to meet with him? and 2) How were they able to determine that all statements coming from the Archdiocese are unreliable when they have not even had their FIRST open dialogue with the Archdiocese? It appears that this is all a ruse just like the John Toves fiasco.
1. Because this is a different group to those that were "invited" by the Archbishop to meet with him some months ago. Also, there are a variety of reasons one could think of that may have caused the reticence to meet with the Archbishop at the time. Your suggestion that it was that they were not truly "open to dialogue" is just narrow-minded and wishful thinking.
Delete2. The Archdiocese has an awful record of mistakes, blunders, backtracking, and poor communication. Some of the leaders are barely literate, or perhaps better to say they are often unintelligible. The virtue of prudence would require that one should be very very careful in any dealings with them
Dear Anonymous at 2:17 pm,
Delete1. Do you honestly expect me to believe that there is another CCOG? I do not see the CCOG who wants to investigate the Archdiocese calling themselves CCOG #2.
2. Where did CCOG hear about this "awful record of mistakes, blunders, backtracking, and poor communication? And how did they determine that what they HEARD was reliable????
Diana is right. One of the objectives of CCOG is to support local vocations; provide grants and scholarships to aspiring local seminarians to attend an established and an accredited Diocesan seminary. The archbishop is the one who sponsors our local seminarians to go off-island. He didn't sponsor Aaron Quitugua. If Aaron Quitugua still wants to become a priest and decides to go this route, who is gonna sponsor him? That's why Diana is right. First they need to remove the archbishop and put in someone who can sponsor an Araon Qutuigua to go off-island.
ReplyDeleteAnonymousDecember 24, 2014 at 1:02 PM
ReplyDeleteLet us first understand......if we are to continue a dialogue....that it is God who choses priest. It is not the will of an individual who wants to be a priest. It was and still is God's will for Arch Bishop Apuron to lead the Catholic Church of Guam.
How does the will of the chatholics of Guam compare to the will of God? By the way.....following Christ is not being popular....liked....admired by the crowd. It is not having your name in the newspaper or pretending to be all knowing.
I am a Catholic on Guam.......the chatholics of Guam do not represent me nor do I appreciate their adjenda. They represent their own selfish....misguided values that shows clearly their pride. The root of sin
Anon 1:02 PM So it is the will of God then, that the Archbishop clearly align himself with the NCW and not pay attention to the other sheep in the fold, Its God's will that Archbishop sign over a $35M dollar property of the local Church to the RMS with three off island NCW memberrs that are on the board, Its is God's will that a division exist in the Church? that local priests and deacon who are non NCW are being dicipined, It has well been over 12 years since the archbishop ever made a parish vist to the local parishes, misses confirmation masses that he alone is the ordinary, and hardly associates with religious groups, however he seems to be present in most NCW activities.Is is also God's will that local men who want to attend seminary are situated in a run down carmelite monestary with unfit living quarters, while off island NCW candidates are housed in a modenn building with 5 star living quarters? This inequality and division in the Church is what many concerned catholics are trying to get answers to.
DeleteI thought the Carmel Retreat Center was renovated. We went there twice for gathering and looked pretty good. Hardly unfit living quarters.
DeleteAnonymousDecember 25, 2014 at 2:20 PM
ReplyDeleteMost of your statement are half correct and probably based on 3rd hand information or rumors.
The division in our church goes back to Constantine....nothing new. Priest being disciplined; they should be unless they walk on water. Most recent drama involving priest involves insubordination.
as for the seminarians living in 5 star living quarters? This statement is not only false.....advise you not take to heart information from the person or persons who told you this lie.
in short...you'll never know the truth by listening to people who themselves do not know the truth.
Dear Anonymous at 6:57 pm,
DeleteThe division in our Church goes back since the days of the Apostles. Paul and Barnabus had a petty argument and went their separate ways. Later, they reconciled. Paul stood up against Peter and rebuked him for his behavior. The Apostles were jealous because someone wanted to sit next to Jesus' right.
It is no different today. The nonNeo priests have a jealousy in their heart because they perceived the Archbishop to favor the RMS priests over them.
nonNeo?
DeleteDiana, you shouldn't acquire the deceptive vocabulary of these people. There's no such thing as neo and non-neo priest. It might seem like a minor detail, but therein lies the problem. The rms forms diocesan priests. Among them there are natives of Guam and persons from elsewhere. Once ordained, they serve in the assignment they receive. I never heard of any of them not doing their duties as faithfully as priests formed in another seminary. They do as much parish work as can be expected of any diocesan priest. Why are they labeled neo? Why do people claim that they are not for the diocese, or try to make it look like they were worse than others?
And about the so-called nonNeo priests: are they all from Guam? No they aren't. Are they more obedient, more faithful? That judgement should be left up to God, and I am sure he will judge case by case, not based on neo or nonNeo categories.
I think you're making a mistake even adopting this deceptive terminology.
Dear Anonymous at 8:51 pm,
DeleteYou have a point there. Therefore, let me rephrase what I said in a different way.
Some of the priests who are not in the Way have a jealousy in their heart because they perceived the Archbishop to favor the priests who are walking in the Way.
Constantine??
ReplyDeleteDiana.....all the apostles had issues but were not divided
ReplyDeleteConstantine....different languages....different interpretations.....
Dear Anonymous at 11:08,
DeleteHaving issues causes some division. Problems and issues will always exist. Paul and Barnabus got into a petty argument and went their separate ways. Simon Magus also caused a division in the Church and was excommunicated by St. Peter. Simon Magus became the Founder of Gnosticism. That is already a division that occurred in the Church before Constantine.
Issues and problems are a part of life. How one overcomes those issues determines one's strengths. We are always in a journey to overcome issues and divisions through proper dialogue, not through deception. Proper dialogue leads to unity and reconciliation.......something that the CCOG knows nothing about. To do a proper investigation means to listen to all sides of the story and not only one side. The CCOG have already said that all statements coming from the Archdiocese is unreliable. Their Vice President made this statement in a press release. They have not even begun their investigation nor conduct their first open dialogue with the Archdiocese and already they have determine all statements coming from the Archdiocese as unreliable. Thus, their mission was never to help the local Church, but to destroy it, and make the Church according to how they want it to be. The things they accuse the Way are actually things they are guilty of.
How do we keep track of chatholics of Guam?
Deletecan you post their membership.....
thanks
Why continue to post this person's comment that disrespects Catholics by purposely misspelling our name? He is only making a mockery of our faith and of you.
DeleteYou choose to allow these posts to be published, you can choose not to allow him to continue to disrespect our faith by defacing the name of our Church. It is not clever and it is against the 2nd commandment of taking the Lord's name in vain.
Dear Anonymous at 11:04 am,
DeleteThe Catholics of Guam do not represent the Catholics of Guam. They represent only Tim Rohr and his followers.
Excuse, me Diana, the group is call the Concerned Catholics of Guam...aren't you concerned? Then why don't you walk with us. We are all concerned; aren't we??
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:24 pm,
DeleteConcerned Catholics of Guam Inc. is only concern of removing the Archbishop and reinstating Monsignor James and Father Paul. They are NOT neutral. They are biased. Have you not read their press release and listened to their conversations with Jess Lujan. Both the President and Vice President stated that the Redemptoris Mater Seminary is not a Diocesan seminary. I would like to know how they came to that conclusion when they have not even begun their investigation into the seminary. They claim that the RMS seminary is a Neocatechumenal Seminary, and they forget that the Neocatechumenal Way is at the SERVICE of the Bishop. Since its development, it was stated that the Redemptoris Mater Seminary serves as both a diocesan seminary and a missionary one.
Their press release also stated that all statements coming from the Archdiocese is unreliable. I would like to know how they came to that conclusion when they have not even begun their FIRST dialogue with the Archdiocese.
To Diana @ 4:32 pm: The CCOG does not represent the Catholics of Guam?? How would YOU know? Have you seen how many people are signing up?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:18 pm,
DeleteCCOG represents Tim Rohr and his disciples because Tim had a hand in establishing CCOG. This organization is not neutral. It is biased.
Diana, your perception of the CCOG is just like how many see the NCW organization. It is not neutral and it is biased.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:51 am,
DeleteWho is the NCW supposed to be biased against?
Redemptoris Mater (Latin: Mother of the Redeemer) is the name for certain Roman Catholic seminaries which operate under the auspices of the Neocatechumenal Way and have as their mission the formation of priests for the "New Evangelization".
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 3:24 am,
DeleteAnd the Neocatechumenal Way is under the service of the Bishop. It was the Archbishop who assigns those who were ordained in the Redemptoris Mater Seminary. The last three priests that were recently ordained was assigned by Archbishop Apuron because they are diocesan priests serving under him.