In May, 2016, Cardinal Paul Josef Cordes and Professor Giuseppe Gennarini came to Guam. Professor Giuseppe Gennarini is the Head Catechist of the United States. Cardinal Cordes, on the other hand, is NOT a member of the Way, and he has never walked in the Way. The Cardinal was assigned by Pope John Paul II to follow and guide the Charismatic Catholic Renewal in 1985 and then to follow and guide the Neocatechumenal Way in 1986. While he was here on Guam, the Cardinal celebrated the Eucharist with the brothers in the NCW communities at the Agana Cathedral.
Cardinal Cordes and Mr. Gennarini also appeared in PNC news, hoping to dispel the false rumors about the Neocatechumenal Way last year. In fact, Mr. Gennarini even extended an invitation to Tim Rohr to discuss issues he had with the Way, but Tim Rohr refused to meet with him.
Although I have written about the Cardinal and Mr. Gennarini, I don't think I published this interview in my blog. At any rate, I found it as I was browsing through Youtube. Since I didn't publish the PNC interview in my blog last year, I think it is worth publishing it.
my dear diana when you say the "Cardinal celebrated the Eucharist" with the brothers in the NCW communities at the Agana Cathedral, are you saying the celebration happened as you described in this comment on 09.08.2016.
ReplyDeleteDiana September 8, 2016 at 6:13 PM
In Holy Communion, we receive the Body of Christ standing up.
We do not consume His Body immediately.
We are to hold His Body in our hands close to our hearts with adoration.
After everyone has received the Body of Christ, the priest proceeds with "Behold, the Body of Christ......" And we respond with "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you......" All the words are the same as it is in the regular Mass.
But we consume the Body of Christ together with the priest.
And yes, we consume His Body sitting down.
Dear D. Anthony,
DeleteYes, he did celebrate the Eucharist just as we usually do. That was last year. However, with this new directive coming from Archbishop Byrnes, we will now celebrate the way he instructed.
thank you diana, but I have a follow up my dear Diana March 22, 2017 at 9:41 AM. in the past you also mentioned that the pope's approved, by that approval you're saying that pope's Francis, Benedict XVI, and Saint John Paul II, celebrated the Eucharist in the manner you described on September 8, 2016 at 6:13 PM.
DeleteI believe you responded to critics who did not believe, or have a problem with it, by having them write to rome, but, if they approved and celebrated with all of it then, why make change now, after all this time on guam, the constant bickering back and forth, why now, after all a pope outranks a bishop.
Dear D. Anthony,
DeleteYes, a Pope outranks a bishop, which is why we still follow the Pope. On February 3, 2014, Pope Francis told this to the NCW:
"Like all movements and groups who contribute their own charism to the life of the church, the Neocatechumenal Way needs to "walk together as one flock under the guidance of the pastors of the local churches."
"Communion is essential, and sometimes -- it happens you know -- it may be better to forego following in every detail that your itinerary demands in order to guarantee unity among the brothers and sisters that make up the one church community of which you must always feel part," he said."
http://www.catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2014/pope-to-neocatechumenal-way-work-for-unity-respect-local-cultures.cfm
It was Pope Francis who told the NCW to be obedient to our local Bishops. At this time, Archbishop Byrnes is our local Bishop. Therefore, we are still following the Pope's instructions.
The NCW in Guam had always followed the Pope and the Archbishop of Agana.
I remember when Gennarini asked Rohr to the radio station so they can discuss the problems he had with the NCW. That was an opportunity for Rohr to get clarifications about the NCW, and he refused. Gennarini is the lead catechists of the U.S., and he could have answered all of Rohr's questions, but Rohr refused to meet the NCW.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 9:48 am,
DeleteMr. Gennarini extended an invitation to Tim Rohr in the Patty Arroyo talk show. He also posted a comment on Tim's blog repeating the same invitation. This was the dialogue between them when Gennarini decided to reach out to Tim through his blog:
AnonymousMay 5, 2016 at 1:18 PM
As I said on the radio after my lecture tomorrow, we can talk. Patti offered to arrange the meeting.
Tim May 5, 2016 at 1:32 PM
Actually, we are not interested in talking to you. According to you you had nothing to do with the construction of any of the corporation documents. So you are useless. We want to talk with who put those documents together. According to you it was the Archbishop and his legal counsel. Great. We will wait to hear from them.
You can find that short dialogue between Mr. Gennarini and Tim Rohr in the following weblink.
http://www.junglewatch.info/2016/05/hey-giuseppe.html?showComment=1462418323322#c4774019666936255521
Diana @ 10:09 AM are we sure it was Mr. Gennarini who wrote that comment on May 5, 2016 at 1:18 PM?
DeleteWhy did Mr. Gennarini not use his name? Why not "Comment as" Professor Gennarini or even as Mr. Gennarini?
For all we know it could have been someone pretending to be Gennarini.
Maybe that's what Tim Rohr first thought when he said he wasn't interested and then decided (just in case it was) to give the rest of the response.
At that point I think Rohr's focus was the return of the property that RMS sat on and not the movement itself. I remember there was some concern about meeting a deadline about the property.
Now that the property is back with the church (as far as we can tell) maybe Rohr would be willing to meet with Mr. Gennarini. Will he be coming back?
Dear Anonymous at 12:30 pm,
DeleteMr. Gennarini was the only one who invited Tim Rohr to discuss about the issues he had about the NCW. This invitation was made public through the media; therefore it stands to reason that the anonymous poster may actually have been Mr. Gennarini trying to reach out to Tim. Also, Tim stood against the Way even before he discovered about the deed restriction. There was the opportunity for Rohr to get some clarifications about the NCW because Mr. Gennarini was the lead catechists of the US.
Furthermore, Mr. Gennarini was one of the members of the Board of Guarantors of RMS. If Tim Rohr was more concern about the RMS property as you claim, then again, he missed the opportunity to speak to a member of the Board of Guarantors of RMS. He refused to meet with Mr. Gennarini.
Anon. 12:30 pm, the property never left the archdiocese. It had always been under the Archdiocese.
DeleteAlexander Chen is right on the point again. Good read:
ReplyDeleteNortheastern University
As usual, Tim Rohr laughs and mocks the NCW movement that he dislikes so much. He uses the law to effectively try to kill his neighbor and has no care for the Church as long as his will is done. He went so far, even as to accuse the Pope, Cardinals and Bishops of being brainwashed agents or zombies of the NCW. As always, we trust in the Lord and he will defend us.
If Byrnes did not do this, you can rest assured that Tim Rohr would continue to stoke the fires of hatred and division... laughing all the way, mocking, being lewd while at it... that is his character proven in his many lines on his JungleTrash. He has proven himself to be a hater... and so are his followers. So the Bishop has to ask the 'only' Christians in Guam to prove their Christianity by being 'obedient', and thanks to the formation received at the NCW, it can be done, the NCW can tolerate their hatred and love them back, even if the NCW enjoys the approval of Rome. The Bishop wants peace by beating on the 'little ones'... what else can be done?... they are asking him to crucify the NCW... what alternative he has for peace?
Well that is what can be done because if the NCW asks to crucify the minority complaining about the NCW he would be sued, and the picketing would never stop, and it would not stop because this minority has no intention of obeying anyone but their own 'protestant-like' militant-faith...
However, Christ always takes the last place... and the NCW are followers of Christ, right? They show the faith they profess, the maturity of their Christian character by deeds, not by launching a demonization campaign against the Bishop or the Church, picketing against Rome, misinforming the rest of the diocese against the Bishop, using allegations as facts if the Bishop doesn't agree with them or consciously spreading hatred abusing the media, etc., but by being genuine followers of Christ.
For the NCW it is an HONOR to obey to the Bishop, in public, and proudly show what Christianity is, with facts and works... and yes... by loving the enemy.
Mr. Chen gives too much credit to rohr. It is who he choses to follow that represents his opinions; dislikes and motivation. Care to guess who he follows?
DeleteBe careful judging others. Many of us have no hatred for the NCW. However, we have the duty to correct our Brothers and Sisters in Christ when they have been led astray by using the approved Statutes of 2008 with love. These are the very instructions Mr. Gennerini himself quoted Pope Francis of saying in Diana's blog Post Scriptum. We use no hostile language and look forward to your obedience so that we may finally be ONE. Peace.
ReplyDelete
DeleteDear Anonymous at 3:31 pm,
The NCW has never been corrected by the jungle with love. Contrary to what you say, they have used hostile language and mockery. This hostile and demeaning language still continues even after Archbishop Byrnes gave his directives to us.
I have told you and the junglefolks who come to my blog to write a letter of complaint to Rome because the only ones who can tell the NCW what to do is Rome and the Archbishop of Agana. The NCW can only follow Rome and the hierarchy of the Catholic Church......in this case the Archbishop of Agana. You have absolutely no authority to tell the NCW what to do.
Dear 3:31 pm, you have no business to correct anyone, except perhaps your own family. Lol. We are being corrected by our catechists or the Archbishop, but by no means by your hate group.
DeleteJungle and it leaders are cheering and highfive-ing all the ugly news on its front pages that are coming out in the newspapers in order to damage the reputation of the Archdiocese of Agana. How is this the responsibility of the NCW communities?
You are right anon at 3:31 PM, the high priests in the Sanhedrin did not "hate" Jesus either. They just wanted Him to be crucified and killed dead! By your law, Jesus was a rebel and He had to be corrected.
DeleteAnon. 3:31 pm, look at the language of JW. Even when we are obedient to AB Byrnes, Rohr and the JW nation still call us "liars" and they continue to brainwash their followers into believing that we are liars. Now, how do you expect us to finally be ONE with that kind of hostile language against us?
DeleteWe have too many theologians on Guam.
DeleteSt. Paul said it right; from Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle.
He speaks for himself. Not a group; not protest movement and certainly not for a blog such as jw.
I go to both blogs to get an idea of what's going on. You're fooling yourself if you think that only the commenters in the jungle use hostile language and mockery. I've seen hostility and mockery in this blog too. The difference is that Rohr admits that he and others mock. But the holier-than-thou Diana claims that nobody who is in the NCW uses hostile language or mockery. You might be taken more seriously if you could more realistic about the shortcomings of the comments in this blog instead of whitewashing the NCW.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:16 am,
DeleteNo one here has ever claimed to be Holy. As a matter of fact, one of the problems that the jungle complains about the NCW is that it's members claim to be sinners.
Where do you see hostility in this blog that I do not use any name calling nor do I allow such publication. It has always been the jungle who resort to name calling and demeaning language such as Pius the Putrid, Waldo, Dungbat, etc. In this blog, I have always called Tim Rohr by his given name.
Dear Anon 3:31
ReplyDeleteMaybe the issue of being one as you so call it is not so much an issue of the NCW falling in line with your made up religion. It is the Catholic Church who must determine if the teachings of the NCW are truly the teachings of Christ and what it means to be a Catholic Christian. You do not have the authority, not even the intellectual authority to say what is wrong with the NCW.
Maybe being "ONE" as you state it, is not so much an issue of the NCW being corrected. Maybe it is more of an issue that the NCW denounces your false idea of what is Christianity in Catholicism. It defends Christianity, and the Catholic Church confirms that the NCW is on the side of truth and Catholic Doctrine. But allowing your religion to fall is something YOU are not willing to do. Even if it means defending your invented doctrine against the NCW, against the Holy Roman Catholic Church, and even against the Popes themselves.
what are you talking about. I decide what is Catholic what is not. Neo movement is not Catholic . It has no place in our church. Best to shut down ncw in Guam completely.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:04 am,
DeleteAnd here lies the problem. Even when the NCW followd the directives set by Archbishop Byrnes, you still think the NCW should be shut down. Tim said the same thing in the Patti Arroyo talk show. He said that Archbishop Byrnes would eventually get rid of the NCW. So you see, it was never about the liturgy. The problem was always in the human heart.
What are you saying, dear anon 8:04 am? YOU decide?! Who are you to decide anything? What do you exactly dream about to decide? Who on earth will listen to you, anyway? Oh, boy, you must be very, very tired... go get some rest and a good sleep. Lol.
DeleteDear Diana,
ReplyDeleteIn reference to my entry at 331, where you said:
Dear Anonymous at 3:31 pm,
The NCW has never been corrected by the jungle with love. Contrary to what you say, they have used hostile language and mockery. This hostile and demeaning language still continues even after Archbishop Byrnes gave his directives to us." Diana, please know that NOT EVERYONE at JW mocks and demeans you.
Diana, you say further:
"I have told you and the junglefolks who come to my blog to write a letter of complaint to Rome ...(and many of us have) "You have absolutely no authority to tell the NCW what to do."
But Diana, again, your very own Mr. Gennerini in your Post Scriptum says Pope Francis HIMSELF said that the NCW can be CORRECTED with love with the (approved 2008)statutes in hand.(You should no longer say we will only listen to the Pope and the Bishops for correction. I and others have always presented the truth with love to you here on your blog and also JW)
Canon 212.1-3 of the Code of Canon Law states:
"The Christian faithful are free to make known their needs, especially spiritual ones and their desires to the Pastors of the Church..they have the RIGHT and even at times a DUTY to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinions on matters which pertain to the good of the Church, and they have a RIGHT to make their opinion known to the other Christian faithful."
Redemptionis Sacramentum (from Saint John Paul II through Cardinal Arinze) says: " [12} ... it is the right of all of Christ's faithful that the Liturgy, and in particular the celebration of Holy Mass, should truly be as the Church wishes, according to her stipulations as prescribed in the liturgical books and in the other laws and norms. Likewise, the Catholic people have the right that the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass should be celebrated for them in an integral manner, according to the entire Doctrine of the Church's Magisterium. Finally, it is the Catholic community's right that the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharist should be carried out for it in such a manner that it truly stands out as a SACRAMENT OF UNITY, to the exclusion of all blemishes and actions that might engender divisions and factions in the Church."
Pride seems to be the sin of both parties. We all need to repent. May we be ONE. Shalom.
Dear Anonymous at 4:11 pm,
DeleteWhen Pope Francis made that speech about correcting the Catechists and the communities of the Way, he was addressing the Bishops. Only Rome and Bishops have the authority to tell us what to do. You are not the bishop and therefore have no authority to tell the NCW what to do. All you need to do is write your letter to Rome.
Dear anon at 4:11 pm,
DeleteIn my humble opinion I believe the problem lies in that you believe yourselves to be intellectual authorities on Church Doctrine. So you believe you are right, and when the Church, who should be the only authority, disagrees with you then you go against the Church.
It is the community's right to express their opinion, but it is the Church's duty to express if that opinion is erroneous. The problem is that when it has you do not except it. Maybe because you believe in relativism or subjective truth, but the Church and God does not. There is undeniable objective truth, to not believe this, is to not believe in God. It equates to making yourself God. Subjective truth is fine, always when you accept and submit to objective truth. You can express your subjective opinion, and the Catholic Church will determine if it is an objective truth, or just your subjective opinion.
This is why the NCW with always submit to the authority of the Church. Otherwise the only God you are following is yourself, or maybe even in this case Rohr.
Dear Diana,
ReplyDeleteI looked at Post Scriptum again, and you are right - it was addressed to the bishops - All the Bishops have a tremendous responsibility in passing on the truth and issuing the NCW correction. We continue to pray for them that they obey the Pope's words.
But this does not negate what Canon Law states - that we have a right and even a times a duty to make our opinion known to the other Christian faithful.
I know if it were me, I would gladly welcome correction (no matter who gave it) if this prevented me from offending our Lord. (At least I hope I would.) May we all be ONE.
PS: It is wonderful that the NCW wants to remain obedient to the Bishop, but when the Bishop is himself ill-informed????.....
Catechism says: #883 "The college or body of Bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, as its head." As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church; BUT THIS POWER CANNOT BE EXERCISED WITHOUT THE AGREEMENT OF THE ROMAN PONTIFF."
Satan is doing his best to deceive the world by sneaking in error among what is very good. We must be vigilant -
Peace and prayers always. May we be ONE.
Dear Anonymous at 11:42 pm,
DeleteAnonymous 11:40 pm above gave you an answer, which explains it much better.
Dear Diana,
ReplyDeleteRe Anon. ll40 pm who states:
Dear anon at 4:11 pm,
In my humble opinion I believe the problem lies in that you believe yourselves to be intellectual authorities on Church Doctrine."
Sorry, I did nothing to say that I'm an authority on Church Doctrine and I would never presume such a thing. I along with others,however, have presented to the NCW (and Diana's blog)documents etc that make the NCW's Mass more than questionable. These are documents/letters/encyclical/catechism excerpts, etc written by the Popes and Saints and those they have given the permission to write in their name.
You continue,"So you believe you are right,...." (No, no... I believe the Popes and the Bishops and Cardinals that are in union with the Pope (as per the Catechism)are right. Please consider me and others just messengers.
"... then you go against the Church." This is a false statement. Take time to re-read what Cardinal Arinze on behalf of Pope Benedict, told the NCW to correct in 2005, and the hope of correction reiterated by Pope Benedict in 2006. Read the original documents. Read what Pope Benedict said in the speech he gave in January 2012 when the NCW appeared in Rome absolutely positively sure that they were going to get the written approval/permission for their alterations to the Mass. It did not happen.
"It equates to making yourself God." Trying to correct by supplying the truth found in so many documents, etc. just makes us messengers. I pray that Archbishop Byrnes will receive willing obedience to his directives. May we all be ONE.