AnonymousApril 28, 2016 at 10:30 AM
Now they are throwing the "its our right, since its ours". That has childish written all over it but then again as you get older the mind tends to reverse to younger years. If we were to use their logic then every parish and its rectory should be open for all who claim to be Catholic, to roam freely because we own it.
There wouldnt have been any problem if in fact they were peacefully protesting but the truth revealed itself in their embarrassing protest at the airport arrivals area then repeated again that morning at the seminary.
In a recent protest a woman had entered the church and began yelling at the priest only to be reminded that they were in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament and if they could relocate to an area to avoid the disrespect towards Jesus' real presence. Her tone of voice and words were not needed to draw any more attention because the congregation had already exited and only the priest and one other non-neo parishioner remained inside.
Our call to not resist this evil is allowing the truth to be revealed.
Our call to not resist this evil is allowing the truth to be revealed.
God definitely has a plan in all this and who knows maybe we will see saints come out of it as did happen when the first foreigners came to our shores to plant the seed of faith. Now the foreigners who have come to maintain, to nurture, to turn the stagnant soil are being persecuted, being murdered. This time again there are the locals who support but there will always be resistance from some.
History repeats itself!
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
History repeats itself!
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
Dear Brothers and Sisters of the Catholic Church,
I predicted that it would only be a matter of time when the protesters will enter INSIDE the Catholic Church to protest. That prediction has come true. Have courage! Do not retaliate! Imitate Christ who was yelled at, mocked, ridiculed, and humiliated by his persecutors. Rejoice in this persecution. Do not resist evil. Do not yell back at those who yell at you.
An RMS priest once shared a true story while he was in Spain. A group of anti-Catholic Protestants were yelling and spitting at a group of young Catholic students. All kinds of degrading words were thrown at them. And what did these Catholic students do as they were being spit upon? They knelt down on the ground, took out their rosaries, and started to pray. There was no anger in them. Christ took up their sufferings so that only peace remains in their hearts. No matter what insults were thrown at them, it did not bother them. They were spit upon, but it did not bother them.
Growing up in Guam, I've been taught respect by my parents and grandparents. They had a lot of respect for the priest and Archbishop. This behavior that we see today from the elderly folks is NEW. Whenever there's a crisis, the manankos have been known to pray rather than protest. I'm not in the Neo, but I find it fishy that all the protesters are elderly, and the behavior they're showing is behavior that is new and unheard of. This is not typical behavior of our manankos of Guam. What has happened to them that they would yell in front of the Blessed Sacrament?
ReplyDeleteThe elderly raised up the young with heart and soul. Now, the young should take over and care about the elderly, before the elderly goes 100% oink!
DeleteThe elders are coming out and doing what they because they are the ones mostly affected by a total disregard of the catholic traditions in Guam. The RMS priests attitude towards the traditional customs is what pisses the elderly. Respect the locals.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 12:43 pm,
DeleteTheir traditions are still safe. The RMS priests still perform the same regular Mass in the parish Mass; therefore, I doubt it has to do with the traditions. These elderly folks are few, and some of them have left LFM. Have you seen the numbers standing outside in the seminary today?
In my opinion, I believe they have been brainwashed into believing that their traditions, which they love and cherished, are being taken away.
Medicals records are supposed to be confidential. People above a certain age might have a medical condition causing a set of symptoms including disorientation, inhibited movement, memory loss and difficulties with thinking, problem-solving or language. It is caused when the central nervous system is impacted by diseases.
DeleteSending people with this condition into a challenging situation like a protest may cause them unpredictable harm and damage. It is irresponsible if not outright criminal behavior. Let me ask this: would Rohr check the medical records of all these people before he sends them into battle to fight for him? Would he ensure that these people remain in good health during the operation? Would he care at all?
If not, he is surely acting like a reckless criminal!
Anon 12:43,
DeleteThere is no disregard towards the customs of the people and culture. A priest has a responsibility to uphold Catholic Doctrine when it comes to certain customs/traditions that either go against doctrine or just serve no purpose.
The elders really have no personal accounts of their own. They have received their information from others who are spreading gossip.
Traditions in the parish remain even if there is now an RMS formed priest. The numerous novenas, rosaries and other devotions still remain. You must realize that although these things are good this is not what makes the church. All the Saints and the Blessed Mother point us towards Jesus Christ. None of them do the saving, they do indeed intercede for us but ultimately the saving grace is from God.
History repeats itself!
When the first foreign missionaries arrived on our island there were many customs and practices that were happening. Christianity taught otherwise and it was not received well. Remember how the chamorros thought that the water for baptism was bringing illnesses and curses?
Ironically, Cheif Kepuha also gave the property to foreigners which now has the Cathedral Basilica on it and we are bothered that the Archbishop gave permission for the RMS to use the yona property.
Again, I agree that they have somehow been brainwashed because if you were to ask them exactly what are they protesting, they will give you the typical gossip contained in junglewatch.
One protester said she was once a member of the Legion of Mary and a couple of other catholic church groups but she quit. When asked why did she quit? she said, because of the archbishop. Now you tell me what is wrong with this picture and your answer will determine exactly what is going wrong.
Oh and if Tim thinks himself to have the only "fly on the wall", I am that "fly on a wall" of the CCOG and LFM. For the last time, I AM NOT FATHER ADRIAN!
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
Dear Anonymous at 1:38 pm,
DeleteTim Rohr is not even there to offer them water and coffee as they do the dirty for him under the hot sun.
I don't see Tim out there holding any signs.
DeleteJoker, you don't even know when you contradict yourself do you?
DeleteYou say
"these things are good"
and then
"History repeats itself!
When the first foreign missionaries arrived on our island there were many customs and practices that were happening. Christianity taught otherwise and it was not received well."
So you say on one hand that "these things are good" and then in the very next breath make an analogy to suggest that "these things" are pagan superstitions like believing the Baptismal waters cause disease.
We know what version of "Christianity" teaches otherwise - and this is the point of the objections. We would much rather remain Catholic thanks.
Anon 4:35,
DeleteI agreed that "these things are good" in regards to the rosaries, novenas and other devotions. If you followed correctly you would have noticed that I moved into another paragraph and brought up the baptismal water misconception on another note.
Maybe to make things more clear I could have given examples of pagan worship that took place before christianity. Do you remember the skulls of the deceased? and what they would do with it?
History is indeed repeating itself in this day and age. What the first missionaries taught was not meant to remain that alone. It was the stepping stone that would/should have lead us to a deeper faith. A faith beyond the rosaries and devotions.
You wont understand if you continue to have a traditionalist mentality. Change is never easy for someone who holds onto tradition. Practices and our approach may change but the substance remains, the doctrine is firm.
You are similar to those who think that because I receive the eucharist on my hands that I am less reverent. You may also be one to believe that I dont believe in the sacrifice of the mass offered by the priest because I consume the body of Christ together with him.
You will continue to claim that we neos believe we are better than you but that is just false. In fact, this mentality is only drawn out of jealousy. Jealousy because you yearn to have a faith that is deeply rooted in Jesus Christ. A faith that reminds me of the love of God in that he paid the ultimate price once and for all, for my salvation. Maybe you dont know what faith is. Maybe you are confused between religion and faith. Maybe this is whats wrong. Courage brother! Courage!
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
And you wonder why we believe you belong to a different religion? I mean, your post is full of obviously problematic statements for a Catholic.
Delete"What the first missionaries taught was not meant to remain that alone."
So the first missionaries gave a weak, shallow faith? And that's ok is it? I suppose in your schema all that history only matters when in relation to you? SO now, history can repeat for your benefit so you can feel all smug and lofty in your "deeper faith", "beyond the rosaries and devotions" that the primitives were led to believe in?
All those that lived and died by these "rosaries and devotions" (I suspect the "sacrifice of the Mass" is one of those outdated, primitive superstitions, huh?) are lost and doomed to eternal punishment for believing in the efficiacy of prayer and the "traditionalist mentality". Not to mention the missionaries themselves, poor souls, who no doubt were jealous of what you have, although they may not have known it then.
Joker, if you discard tradition, then in no way is it possible that "the substance remains, the doctrine is firm."
What we believe as Catholics is not invented or updated - whether it is the intercession of the saints, or the unique and eminent position of Our Lady. What we believe has been given to us - entire and whole. Theology seeks to explain it, but cannot add to what has been revealed. Natural intelligence won't reveal more.
And then you say:
"You will continue to claim that we neos believe we are better than you but that is just false."
And how do you back this statement up? By claiming that non-neos are jealous of neos, because neos have a deeper faith - "a faith that is deeply rooted in Jesus Christ". So in fact, despite your claims to the contrary, you really do think neos are better than non-neos!
Extraordinary I know. But then I remember that thinking is the first thing to go when you join the NCW. Intelligence is from the devil, so I'm told.
One thing I will say. The NCW has a great gift of teaching normal innocent peopl how to be pefectly arrogant, irrational and condescending. Patronizing is probably a better word.
But then again, you're better than us, so you probably have the right to be.
Dear Anonymous at 12:36 am,
DeleteThe first missionaries to Guam gave a very strong faith in that Catholicism grew on this island to approximately 98%. But the world did not remain the same. Secularism and liberalism came, which weakened the faith.
Today, Catholicism is at 85%. This does not mean that the rosaries, novenas, and the other Catholic traditions that Chamorros held were not working. It meant that as Catholics we needed other ways to battle the new and modern evils of secularism and liberalism. Over the years, the Catholic Church have grown and changes to meet the challenges that the devil introduces. New weapons are forged by the Holy Spirit over the centuries from the time when the Jesuits were organized to combat Protestanism. The NCW, Charismatic Catholic Renewal, Focolare, Cursillios, and many others were also forged by the Holy Spirit to combat secularism and liberalism as well as other modern instruments that Satan uses against the Church. In the future, the Devil will once again find other ways to attack the Church, and the Church does not remain stagnant.
Statistics have shown that there has been an increase in Catholicism especially in the continents of Asia and Africa. However, Catholicism has decreased in Europe. We see the same trend in Guam as we went from 98% to 85%. Due to this decrease in Europe (and even in Guam), re-evangelization is needed otherwise the decline would continue.
Anon 12:36am,
DeleteThere was nothing problematic in what I said. Now let me give you another example of the tradition changing and the substance, doctrine remaining firm.
There was once a tradition of the "Rosary for the Dead" which included the usual 5 decades and afterwards a long list of "extra" prayers, for example, the litany, the OLO Mount Carmel, the Sacred Heart of Jesus, the Holy Shroud and quite a few others that I cant recall their names. A while ago, the archdiocese came in and asked the people to refrain from all those added prayers and intentions and to keep it just the 5 decades and an intention for the Holy father.
Now with this change in tradition, did the substance of the rosary change? Did the doctrine change? Nope!
Now lets remember when the traditional posture of receiving the eucharist was ONLY kneeling and on the tongue, then an exception(concession) was made for those who wish, to receive the eucharist standing and on the hand. In this allowance, the norm changed but did the substance too? or the doctrine? NOPE!
I never said that the first missionaries taught a "weak, shallow faith". I instead shared that the faith that they taught was just a "stepping stone". Aren't we expected to live our entire life growing, therefore strengthening our faith? Is faith something that is gained overnight and then when obtained there is no need for more?
Thank you for playing the usual card that is thrown at any NCW member. Again, unintentionally I have come off as arrogant and so on. You wont understand anything if you already have those judgments in your mind and probably nothing I can say will change your mind. I guess you will have to see it in my actions or the actions of other NCW members who in times of struggle and despair hold onto to the love of God.
I offer one suggestion for you and that is to realize that there is a difference between faith and religion. Religion is taught, faith is experienced!
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
PS- I think you are over thinking my comment and using valid points but just out of context. One other thing would help also, is that if you refrain from twisting my statements then you will understand more clearly.
ReplyDeleteToday i learnt from the protestors theology revolution spirituality.
Rather surprised old people of Guam talk of a revolution in our church.
Who is teaching our manankos this theology?
ReplyDeleteAs predicted by Diana protestors have entered invaded the table of the Lord.
FR.pius Director of the seminary rightly ordered protestors to be escorted out.
Protests taken on.a new form that is damaging our church.
The church is the Body of Christ. People who desecrate the church are desecrating the Body of Christ. It is indecent, even if they are paid lavishly by the troublemaker.
DeleteThe Blessed Sacrament is the Body of Christ. People who desecrate the Blessed Sacrament are desecrating the Body of Christ. It is indecent, even if they do it in obedience to Kiko, the Bishop or the Pope.
DeleteIf you say we desecrate the Blessed Sacrament then you are a liar and the truth is not in you. If you claim to have fellowship with Jesus and yet walk in the darkness, then you lie and do not live out the truth. If you claim to be without sin, you deceive yourselves and the truth is not in you. If you claim you have not sinned, you make Jesus out to be a liar and his word is not in you.
DeleteAnyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister is still in the darkness. Anyone who loves their brother and sister lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble. But anyone who hates a brother or sister is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness. They do not know where they are going, because the darkness has blinded them.
This was taken from the jungle:
ReplyDeleteAnonymousApril 28, 2016 at 10:48 AM
By that logic, you would say that the parishioners of Mangilao, Talofofo, Sinajana and Agana Heights didn't have a choice that their parishes are staffed by Franciscans. I've attended masses at other diocesan parishes even with priests who were formed at the Redemptoris Mater seminary and I have not heard anything preached that was contrary to Catholic teachings. No one is being forced to join the way... it is simply and invitation. Just my thoughts.
TimApril 28, 2016 at 12:05 PM
It's quite simple. Because I know that the Kiko's believe that the Eucharist is NOT a participation in the One Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and until they can demonstrate otherwise, I am forced to find another parish if I care about the salvation of myself and my family. They don't have to preach it. They only have to believe it. This invalidates the Eucharist.
Diana has always said that the Neo believes that the Eucharist is a participation in the sacrifice of Jesus. She also had a post saying that the Neos believed the bread and wine to be the actual body and blood of Christ after the priest consecrates it. Tim's demands are unrealistic and delusional because he ask to Show that the Neos believe it. How can what's in the heart be shown if he doesn't believe what they say?
Tim is spreading superstition.
Delete
DeleteSituation out of control now. Jungle folk delusional .
Funny how CCOG, LFM scream for the foreigner priests to go home. So I guess they would have told blessed Diego Luis de San Vitores and all the Jesuit missionaries to go home. So I guess they would have told all the other religious orders to go home, like the Capuchins, Carmelites, etc. So I wonder if they protested when Saint Pope John Paul II came to visit Guam. Should Pope Francis visit Guam, will they be shouting in his face to go home? Have they demanded the priests from the Philippines to go home?
ReplyDeleteI AGREE! and your comment just brought me to laughter. lol!
DeletePas!
-Jokers Wild
What is more sad is that in all of this there are our "beloved local priests" who in their silence towards these protests have instead given their approval. Most of those protesters come from parishes that are not administered by RMS formed diocesan priests. Dont tell me that those priests have no idea who are these people protesting. Yes, they all have a mind of their own and are entitled to their rights and opinions but when their actions have crossed the line and they begin to jeopardize their salvation, everyone, including the priests have an obligation to remind them, to help them out of the pit.
ReplyDeleteIf your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off! instead these people are growing multiple appendages, holding up signs of slander and insult.
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
Dear Jokers Wild,
DeleteOne of those priests is guilty of providing Tim Rohr the invitation letter that was sent by the Archbishop to all the priests. Tim can only get that letter from a priest because the letter was addressed only to the priests. The fact that this priest (whoever he is) has done this shows that they are supporting those who oppose the Archbishop.
DeleteRemember you saying Diana protestors will enter inside church to protest.
Now it happened.
First time on Guam protestors inside .
they have been showing their discontent inside the church...for long time now and only now you see! not all can be seen by actions...or words....its even in prayers which only God can hear.
ReplyDeleteSuperales,
ReplyDeleteDoes the church revolve around discontent? Maybe a business like TGIF relies on customers discontent on the menu and it is much easier to change out the menu in those situations but the church cannot operate like that. The menu is always the same, the word of God remains nothing is subtracted or added.
When the Pope, in fact 4 Popes decide that the NCW is valid for our time and for society, then it is valid, accept it. If you dont agree with the chef then go to another restaurant.
Dont underestimate the power of Saints and their intercessions for us. Why then do they exist if only God can hear our prayers?
You have obviously admitted to the protestant nature of this group of protesters.
Pas!
-Jokers Wild