Sunday, March 29, 2015
The Easter Vigil
The Easter Vigil in the Way takes approximately 6-7 hours. Preparation for the Vigil starts on Saturday morning. The community gets together for morning prayer and then breaks up into groups. Many communities have their Easter Vigil at a hotel. There would be a set up group setting up the place, a cantors practice, and readers practicing the readings and their admonitions on that day. By the afternoon, everything would be set up, and members would go home to prepare for their agape. Some communities do not need to prepare their agapes because the hotel provides it.
The Easter Vigil usually starts at 10:00 or 11:00 pm. The community does not go to the regular parish Mass for Easter Vigil. Why? Because they are at home sleeping. We need to sleep in order to attend the NCW Easter Vigil. Those who are in the NCW already know that the preparations have all been set up since Saturday morning after morning prayer. The NCW Easter Vigil also do not start until an hour or two hours after the parish Easter Vigil ends. And the NCW members know that they need to sleep after the preparation in order to keep awake for the next 6 or 7 hours during the Easter Vigil.
It is only during Holy Thursday and Good Friday that we attend the parish Mass before going to our own community celebration, which always takes place in the home. And even then, we do not rush out of Church early because the home celebrations have already been set up in the morning.
What I find even more remarkable about the Easter Vigil is that people (especially the youths and the children) stay up for six or seven hours celebrating the Easter Mass. It is a long night, but no one feels the time because everyone (including the young children) participate in the celebration. Below is a video of children participating in our 6-7 hour Easter Vigil.
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Diane, this is what Timmy wrote:
ReplyDelete"This year, as with years past, we can once again expect controversy over the NCW's separate celebration of its own Paschal Vigil (Easter Vigil). In some parishes the controversy will be very visible. "Regular" Catholics will be hurried out of their churches after the regularly scheduled vigil so that NCW communities can come in and celebrate theirs."
Dear Anonymous at 8:48 am,
DeleteI do not know where Tim Rohr got this information. Obviously, he has been misinformed so badly. The NCW Easter Vigil has already been set up since Saturday morning that we do not need to rush the "regular" Catholics out of the Church. In the first place, the NCW Easter Vigil is not held inside the church building. Some of the NCW communities combine to have their Easter Vigil at the hotels while others combine to have it in the parish social hall or other places big enough to accommodate the communities.
Tim spreads those false rumors about the Way to cause division in the Church.
DeleteRush out the regular catholics so we can come in and celebrate our Easter vigil? Is he kidding? Does he know how long it takes to set up for the Easter Vigil? We can't set it up after the regular mass!
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:05 am,
DeleteExactly my point. That is why every community start on Saturday morning. By the time my community is done, it would be afternoon. Apparently, Tim Rohr does not know this information; therefore, he invents his own story.
I hope you remember when you wake up from your nap to make and Easter Offering to your PARISH. I mean besides the fee you pay to a HOTEL. Just a thought ....are there any other group in the Catholic Church who celebrate in a HOTEL? What do you do with the Easter Candle which belongs in the Parish for use throughout the year?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:32 am,
DeleteAs I said, the Catholic Church was never defined as a building. It is the people who gather together to worship God. As for the Easter candle, the NCW has an Easter candle of their own.
you have your own candle? incorrect.
DeleteWe.ve been over this before Diana. you even admitted that the GIRM instructs that there should be only one Easter Vigil Mass per parish. You claim that your Statutes allow the NCW to break this rule, but no where in the Statutes does it actually say this. The Statutes merely mentions that teh Easter Vigil is important and that it is intented that the NCW add to the celebration of the parish Paschal Vigil. Please provide the exact passage of the Statutes that clearly states that the NCW is permitted to celebrate a second, separate Vigil.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:30 pm,
DeleteThat is correct. Some communities have purchased their own candle for the Easter Vigil.
Dear Anonymous at 8:57 pm,
DeleteCan you explain what you mean by "add to the celebration of the parish Paschal Vigil?" This is what the Statutes states (capitalization is mine):
§ 2. “The Paschal Vigil, focal point of the Christian liturgy, and its baptismal spirituality inspire all Catechesis.”44 It is for this reason that DURING THE ITINERARY,, the neocatechumens are initiated gradually45 into an ever more perfect participation in all that the holy night signifies, celebrates and realizes.
The Way is an itinerary. The Statutes states that "DURING THE ITINERARY".......means that we are to celebrate it while we are still in this itinerary. The Statutes goes on to say:
§ 3. In this way, the Neocatechumenate will stimulate the parish to have a richer celebration of the Paschal Vigil.46
It is the NCW who is supposed to stimulate the Parish.......not the Parish to stimulate the NCW. The Vatican commended the NCW that we celebrate a vigil and criticized the parish for reducing the vigil to a two hour night Mass, which is what happened over the years.
"Can you explain what you mean by "add to the celebration of the parish Paschal Vigil?" "
DeleteIt means this: "§ 3. In this way, the Neocatechumenate will stimulate the parish to have a richer celebration of the Paschal Vigil.46 "
Paragraph 3 presupposes the parish vigil.
"During the Itinerary" simply refers to the period during which members of the NCW participate in the various steps. Its the same as saying "over thirty years or so".
"the neocatechumens are initiated gradually45 into an ever more perfect participation" means that the NCW members participate more and more in the vigil as they learn more about the meaning and centrality of the Paschal vigil.
So, to summarise, the NCW statutes state the following:
The Vigil is held in the parish. Over time the NCW itinerary is intended to bring people to a deeper sense of the meaning and significance of the paschal mystery. The NCW members then gradually participate more and more in the parish vigil, and in this way, improve and stimulate the parish vigil. Simple.
In no way do the Statutes intend, imply or state that the NCW is to have its own separate Vigil. This is of course what has happened over the years, but simply saying that something has happened is not sufficient reason to say that it is allowed to happen.
Dear Anonymous at 10:51 am,
DeleteI see........so you interpret "during the itineracy" to mean "over 30 years or so". Nevermind the fact that it never specified a number. How did you come up with 30 years or so when there was no specific number?
You also interpret this statement "the Neocatechumenate will stimulate the parish to have a richer celebration of the Paschal Vigil." to mean that the neocatecumenate is to participate in a parish vigil that is actually a 2 hour night mass??? The Easter Vigil that we participate in is much more than a night mass. It is truly a vigil. However, you feel that the ATTENDANCE of the NCW members is what stimulates your parish vigil? How one WORSHIPS should be the stimulation. If you want us to stimulate the parish vigil, it will be a six hour Mass with praising, singing, adoration, worship, and full participation.
Well, it might start out as a two hour event and over time become more than that. It is very clear that the Statutes are written as though the NCW participate in the parish Paschal Vigil. If it was intended to be otherwise, it would clearly state it. For the regular weekend Mass, the Statutes clearly articulate that the NCW celebrate in small communities, but that these celebrations are according to the Roman Rite and open to other faithful. (of course we know they are not according to the Roman Rite, and they are not open to faithful who choose to receive on the tongue). But the GIRM states that there is to be only one Easter Vigil in the parish.
DeleteThere is therefore no grounds to claim that the Statutes allow for a separate NCW Vigil Mass.
In any case, it needs to be stressed that the length of time of the vigil is not the measure of its meaning or value! If you celebrate all night but do it away from the larger ecclesial body, in an exclusive way, while looking down on your Catholic brothers and sisters, and **without the express consent of the Church**, you do not celebrate better. In fact, you blaspheme, despite your good intentions.
As for "over thirty years of so". Well, perhaps it would have been less contentious for you if I had merely said "Over the duration of the NCW steps". It amounts to about the same anyway. But if it avoids creating a problem for you....
I think the rushing/hurrying of the "regular Catholics" out of church does not actually refer to the use of the buildings but rather the use of the CLERGY for the Neo Easter Vigil. As you mentioned your movement holds separate Easter Vigils in hotels BUT you need your presbyters to be present, right? And if those presbyters who are assigned as pastors hold Easter Vigil services for the "regular Catholics" at 9PM or later (which has been the norm for many years and which is the time for most parishes with non-Neo pastors), they wouldn't be able to be at the hotels for your separate services. My family and I had been regulars at the 9PM Easter Vigil at the Cathedral Basilica for years until last year when the time was switched to 7PM like at St Anthony Church.
Delete==========
PS- Here's what Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI communicated to the Neocatechumenal Way, back on January 20, 2012
"Dear brothers and sisters, [...] a short time ago you were read the decree that gives approval to the celebrations present in the "Catechetical Directory of the Neocatechumenal Way," which are not strictly liturgical,, but are part of the journey of growth in faith. It is another element that shows you how the Church accompanies you attentively, in a patient discernment, which embraces your richness but also looks to the communion and harmony of the entire "Corpus Ecclesiae."
As you can see the Pope "approved" your NON-LITURGICAL celebrations but then again Kiko has told you that the Pope has approved EVERYTHING that the Neos do and you listen to Kiko NOT to the Pope.
Dear Anonymous at 12:26 pm,
DeleteThe clergy does not need to hurry out of the building as well. The Eucharist does not start until an hour or two hours after the regular Mass, so the clergy has enough time, and even then, we do not even start on time. There was a time I remember when we were in the hotel and supposed to start the Easter Vigil at 11:00 am, but we started at 12 midnight. I think people say 11:00 am, is the starting time only because this is Guam, and people usually arrive "Chamorro time."
I will say again, we have the permission of Rome. The Vatican is not blind. They know what we are doing. And even with all your complaints going in, they still know what we are doing. If we are truly in the wrong, we would have been corrected by now. It has already been 7 years since the Statutes were approved. Yet, the Vatican has done nothing despite that they already know how we have been celebrating.
"Yet, the Vatican has done nothing despite that they already know how we have been celebrating. "
DeleteWhy do you keep saying this? The Vatican has "done something". It has reiterated many times that the NCW is to follow the liturgical books of the Roman Rite. It has "suggested" that you give up some details to avoid disunity. It has approved the practices that are "already regulated by the liturgical books". It has reminded you that the "regulatory charter" exists only in the Articles 12 and 13 of the Statutes. You are just stubborn and refuse to listen
Dear Anonymous at 11:53 am,
DeleteYou stated: " In any case, it needs to be stressed that the length of time of the vigil is not the measure of its meaning or value! If you celebrate all night but do it away from the larger ecclesial body, in an exclusive way, while looking down on your Catholic brothers and sisters, and **without the express consent of the Church**, you do not celebrate better. In fact, you blaspheme, despite your good intentions."
First of all, it was the Pope who made the statement that parish Easter masses have become nothing more than an evening or night mass. He expressed that in a document for the Easter Vigil Paschalis Solemnitatis.
"The Holy See, the key document for the Easter Vigil Paschalis Solemnitatis, expressed pain seeing that the Easter Vigil, instead of being "the mother of all vigils" and the center of the liturgical life of the Faithful, has become instead in many parishes only Evening Mass."
Furthermore, the Roman Missal stated:
The Vigil, by its very nature, "ought to take place at night" (EV, no. 3). It is not begun before nightfall 1 and should end before daybreak on Easter Sunday. The celebration of the Easter Vigil takes the place of the Office of Readings (EV, no. 5).
http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-year/triduum/roman-missal-and-the-easter-vigil.cfm
The parish mass does not end on Easter Sunday, which is the reason why the Pope expressed disappointment that the Easter vigils in the parish mass has become more like an evening mass.
And we can celebrate the Easter Vigil. According to Kiko Arguello in his interview with Zenit regarding the Easter Vigil:
Argüello: The Holy Father, in this letter sent by Archbishop [Angelo] Becciu, confirms that what he has said in the indications to the families does not touch at all the Statutes of the Neocatechumenal Way and, citing article 12, which speaks on the Paschal Vigil, and article 13, which speaks of the Eucharist of the Way, he confirms that "as far as it pertains to the celebrations of the Paschal Vigil and the Sunday Eucharist" those articles are "the regulatory charter of reference" for the Way.
http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/pope-francis-backs-neocatechumenal-way-liturgy
as far as it pertains to the celebrations of the Paschal Vigil and the Sunday Eucharist" those articles are "the regulatory charter of reference" FOR THE WAY. The Paschal vigil is in our Statutes simply because we are allowed to celebrate the Paschal vigil.
Dear Anonymous at 1:43 pm,
DeleteThat is only YOUR interpretation. Taken into the context with the whole speech, the popes have praised the NCW rather than condemned it. Remember, the investigations into the Way were ceased and nothing ever came of it. Pope Francis did not mention anything about the investigations. Kiko Arguello was confirmed for another five years as the consultor of the Pontifical Council of the Laity.
You are just ignoring the bits that you don't like. That's dishonest and ultimately pointless, Diana
DeleteAnother example of separating members of the church. Follow your statutes. Needing sleep as your justification for not attending parish mass a joke. Follow your statutes. Your practices were developed to take you away from the Catholic Church and it's parishioners. Open your eyes, or at least follow your statutes.
ReplyDeleteI don't make this comment because you are different, I make this comment because your group is deceiving some of my family members to thinking they are still Catholic.
Dear Anonymous at 9:01 am,
DeleteThe Church is NOT a building. The Church is a people. Where ever two or more are gathered in His Name, there is Christ. The Church is the people gathered together regardless of what time. And we do follow our Statutes. The Statutes allow us to celebrate the Easter Vigil just as it allows us to celebrate the Eucharist in small communities.
No, it doesn't. It mentions the Vigil but that's all. Even Kiko has never claimed that.
DeleteWell, in this case, we don't really need Church buildings. What a relief. No maintenance. What a mistake the Church made in building Churches all these centuries. Kiko is right. Back to basics. In this case, please stop decorating our Churches with Kiko's
DeleteI know anonymous March 29, 2015 at 9:01 AM is "not" Catholic......I've never known Catholics to be "members" of anything. We are called to be brothers and sisters in Christ.....not members of a club.
Deletetoo many details.......fasting from Friday evening to Sunday morning is just enough to send "members" into crisis.
We celebrate morning prayers as communities Sat. morning that allows us the grace to enter into Easter Vigil in spirit. We pray for everyone to be in SPIRIT before, during and after Easter Vigil.
What good are statutes...laws if for this day, we are not in communion...Holy communion with Christ? In his suffering, in his obedience to the Father...in his love for all men. Yes...yes even to anonymous March 29 who believes the Way is deceiving family members to think they are still Catholic.
It is so much more than being Catholic. So much more than what we think we know.
ReplyDeleteThere is only one church one ecclesial community. There should be only one Easter Vigil per parish.
NCW holding Private Easter Vigils is dividing the Catholic Chirch Community. faithful loyal Catholics will be blasted through their Easter Vigil like a bullet train to make way for the NCW. No Respect of the NCW to Catholics this Holy Week. NCW members trying to stop devotions like stations of the cross .
six or seven hours is simply not possible for most people.
ReplyDeletesix or seven hours is simply not possible for most people. not common sense, nor pastoral consideration.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 7:27 pm,
DeleteThis is why St. Paul says: But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. (1 Corinthians 1:27).
What man finds impossible, he finds possible to do with God.
If the Church is not a building then why didn't Archbishop and all his Neo brothers in the Sanctuary at OUR Cathedral Basilica celebrate outside in the sun. It was hot as h today. See clearly, Diana, whoever you are ,that you are really pushing buildings are not needed. Pius says seminary buildings are not needed. Then stop using our Church buildings and meet at home or your hotels. P.S. give the seminary building and grounds back to Archdiocese. Please do not respond the Archdiocese belongs to Agana. In reality, it does not.
ReplyDeleteMy dear Diana, As you said, the Catholic Church was never defined as a building.
ReplyDeleteIt is the people who gather together to worship God.
And this is so true, why even enter the building at all, sell or tear down all the church buildings, the cost of maintaining all of them, should be used towards the mission families, let’s be one with Kiko, in his glory.
Dear Anonymous at 9:28 am,
DeleteThe building is used for all Catholics to gather together in worship because the Church (people) have grown so large that we can no longer fit in people's homes. We will not tear down the building.
AnonymousMarch 30, 2015 at 9:28 AM
ReplyDeleteI believe we are talking about the "SPIRITUAL" Church and not the physical. Do you understand the difference?
How many times were the temple in Jerusalem destroyed?
Your comment on selling or tearing down all the churches reflect a juvenile faith....I am sorry to say.
You wrote "It is only during Holy Thursday and Good Friday that we attend the parish Mass before going to our own community celebration, which always takes place in the home."
ReplyDeleteI would be interested to know which parish has a Good Friday Parish MASS, Diana, since as a "regular Catholic" going on 50, I have never attended a MASS on Good Friday. As far as I know in the Roman Catholic Church Good Friday is the ONE DAY of the year when there are NO MASSES. But then again I'm not a Neo, so maybe there's a Good Friday Mass in a parish that has a Neo pastor. Is that it?
Dear Anonymous at 12:43 pm,
DeleteForgive me. I meant the "Holy Thursday" and "Good Friday" celebration in the parish. I am in the habit of saying "Mass".
I haven't blogged for a while; however, for what it's worth:
ReplyDeleteThe Popes have always wanted us to be united as ONE. The Easter Vigil is meant for the whole Church.
A while back the comment was made that it would be wonderful for the NCW community to celebrate the Sacrifice of the Mass in the pews with the rest of the Church so that the NCW's zeal for Jesus, love of large families, etc. would rub off on the luke-warm Catholics - (not the exact words, but I hope you know what I mean).
This way, those of us Catholics that are not experiencing Jesus as the best thing in their life will learn from the NCW. And, the NCW who are not experiencing the Mass as it should be done (without additions and deletions as per the Roman Missal/GIRM) will learn too. PEACE We are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
If we as Catholics were meant to have only one Easter Vigil, why are there thousands upon thousands happening all around the world Holy Saturday night?
DeleteI don't understand the point of anon 12:43pm. I just came from church on this Good Friday and received the Eucharist after adoration of the cross.
ReplyDeleteAs for priests being swept away from masses to NCW events/masses/whatever, I found out the one of the primary priests use for a local # of communities is retired and walks with an older community.
All this stuff about the NCW being so bad, then how come there are priests that walk with the Way, have come from the Way, etc.
The 2nd priest at my church belonged to a Spanish community, since he was a kid, at a church in an adjacent city. He is a helpful link between the Way and the regular parish people because I see the staff at th parish split with bias at times just like some of the anon comments.
My friend that has a bias at times against the Way at times also says that some of the more conservative regular parish members don't like change even when the pope has agreed or started the change himself.
She having been in charge of liturgy, was concerned about the new director using females in the mix of 12 that would have their feet washed yesterday. I don't know if this ended up happening but I thought Pope Francis washed the feet of female prisoners (in Argentina?) soon after becoming our pope.
Anyways, some of this banter just seems like attacks on the Way instead of spirited discussions to help reach understandings