Editor's note: The following is in response to "The Way shows signs of a cult or sect" by Charles White, which was published Aug. 4 in the Opinion section.
I have been "walking" in the Neocatechumenal Way since 1997 and find it hard to believe that such garbage can be spewed from the mouth of someone claiming to be close to the goodness of God.
Please get your facts straight about the Neocatechumenal Way! And while you are at it, check out the stats on how many youths from The Way (including those from Guam) attended the last World Youth Day in Brazil, and the one before in Spain, and the one before that in Germany and even Israel in the year 2000. And while you are at it again, check the numbers on those who "walk" in communities in Italy and Spain alone where the popes were "invited" to celebrate the Eucharist and did.
The Neocatechumenal Way works! For me and at least 200,000-plus in just Italy alone, where Roman Catholicism rules! More than 50,000 communities exist throughout the world today.
Out of love for you, I suggest you go through what you heard we go through, a "Scrutiny" by a "panel" and get to the core of all this blog hatred and anger, and disrespect you have for the archbishop and the Neocatechumenal Way. These are serious judgements and everyone knows a judgement is not a problem of the other but of the one with the judgement.
The archbishop, who allowed The Way to come to Guam, saved me from suicide as I journeyed through the suffering of a divorce. But of course you have never experienced this, you have no idea, and I pray you never will.
You will never know the countless lives and marriages it has saved around the world, let alone in Guam. I know hatred and anger when I see it; it is a tremendous suffering! You are obsessed with this vendetta against Archbishop Apuron and the Neocatechumenal Way.
The Neocatechumenal Way changed my attitude. All of the events in my life, in your life too, good and bad, are not a mistake. God allows all to happen for our own good -- and to manifest his glory to me and you. I was very angry at Him, I blamed Him for everything bad and all that went wrong in my life. I believed for a long time that every man that walked this Earth was a jerk! But guess what? The Way has changed all this.
Mr. White, we are all children of God, brothers and sisters in Christ. All roads lead to heaven, you through the Friary in Agana Heights and me through The Neocatechumenal Way at San Vicente/San Roke Church in Barrigada.
The Neocatechumenal Way will never separate, deviate, break away, whatever word you want to use, from the Mother Church. And nothing will separate you, Mr. (Tim) Rohr, and us from the love of God! Now how awesome is that?
Deborah Torres is a resident of Tamuning.
http://www.guampdn.com/article/20140808/OPINION02/308080019/The-Neocatechumenal-Way-has-saved-many
Do you call yourselves "Catholic"? Or just "Christian" tell the truth. What does the statues say and kiko says.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 12:25 pm,
DeleteA Catholic is a Christian.
The Bible...our Church..and traditions....like the Trinity....complete. ...beautiful.
DeleteBut answer the question. Do you call yourselves "Catholic".
DeleteI don't need a religion class from you, I was educated by the finest scholars and theologians from Duke University School of Divinity who can dance circles around you catechists and so called NCW priests. Your Guam seminary is a joke of a school of formation and is just a factory for priests who would fail if it wasn't for the NCW propping them up.
Dear Anonymous at 3:38 p.m.,
DeleteThe fact that you had to ask if we are Catholics or Christians shows that you do need to take a religion class. It does not matter that you attend Duke University School of Divinity if you do not even know that a Catholic is a Christian.
Yes anonymous, you can dance all you want, but can you stand in front of the cross? Reread the Sermon on the Mount and if it is not revelant to you......congratulations. ...you dont need God anymore.
Deleteanonymous, forgive me if I am mistaken but is Duke still a methodist affiliated school?
DeleteDear Juan,
DeleteA Catholic who hates is one who has no remorse. They are unrepentant and blind of their sins while the struggling Catholic often has regrets and find ways to make amends. The struggling Catholic tries to better his life while the one who hates sees nothing wrong with his life because he/she is self-righteous.
It reminds me of members of the Baptist Wesboro Church in Florida who believe that everyone will go to Hell except themselves. They are saved while everyone else are not. There are also a few extremist Catholics who believe that only Catholics will be saved while all others who are non-Catholics will not be saved. If I am not mistaken, I think the members of the SSPX still hold to that belief. Their excommunication has been uplifted in the hopes that they would accept Vatican Council II.
Diana|Juan- I could not help it when an anon broadly said about getting his degree in Duke which is non Catholic it would be more funnier if someone said he knows the Cathechisist of the Catholic Church graduating from Birmingham Young University.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:48 a.m.,
DeleteIt would explain why he/she does not know that a Catholic is a Christian.
Yes Catholics are Christian, but so are Protestants, Baptist and Lutherans. The question is are you a Catholic Christian? The NCW only uses the broad term Christian, and when the NCW breaks from the Roman Catholic Church, they will still be considered Christian; and no longer Catholic.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:22 p.m.,
DeleteThat was not the question that was asked. He/she asked whether I was a Catholic or a Christian. The NCW is a Catholic Christian. We have never broken away from Rome.
Rome doesn't even call themselves Catholic Christians. It is Roman Catholic. so what is it?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 2:12 p.m.,
DeleteRome never called itself "Roman Catholic". "Roman Catholic" is a modern word, which is NEVER used by the Church. The Church have always called herself "Catholic Church." Just look at the Vatican II papers. The Pope never use the name "Roman Catholic Church." He used the name "Cathlic Church" because that has always been her true name. The Catholic Church includes the Latin-rite Church in the West and the Eastern-rite Church.
@AnonymousAugust 17, 2014 at 12:25 PM
DeleteCome on now! It is just obvious that we call ourselves Catholic AND Christian, not either or.
Try the following google search: catholic site:camminoneocatecumenale.it
This will search the official site of the NCW. I got 30 hits. The most important being that Saint John Paul, pope, recognized the Way as an "itinerary of CATHOLIC formation" (emphasis mine). This is what the Statute begins with, this is what we always call ourselves. Period.
I know people who weren't Catholic and joined a community. Most of them have been already baptized (if they hadn't been before) or were received into full communion. Some of them are still being prepared.
I am and hope to remain Catholic, by the grace of God.
You will break away eventually, or you will conform.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 4:05 p.m.,
DeleteKiko Arguello is the Consulter of the Pontifical Council of the Laity. That would be difficult to break away when our founder was confirmed by the Pope as the Consulter of the Pontifical Council.
And here in your headline, is the problem - "The Neocatechumenal Way saved many."
ReplyDeleteAll praise the neocatechumenal way! Salvation comes from the Neocatechumenal way! Not Jesus Christ, nor his Church, but a novelty, a cult of personality.
Dear Anonymous at 2:17 p.m.
DeleteAnd here in your comment is the problem - your ignorance of Catholicism.
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (capitalization is my emphasis):
CCC 837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of SALVATION GIVEN TO THE CHURCH TOGETHER WITH HER ENTIRE ORGANIZATION, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'
Do you see what I capitalize in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Anonymous? Salvation is given to the Church together with her entire organization. The NCW is part of the Catholic Church along with Couples of Christ, the Legion of Mary, the Charismatic Renewal, and many, many, many other organizations within the Church. In other words, salvation comes from Christ (the Head) through the Church (the Body).
12:25 pm is a good example of why some catholics on island believe the Jungle noise. For some reason, they separate us as Christian, but they are also Christian. Of course they criticize the Way for supposedly dividing the Church when those who cannot even acknowledge that they are Christian to begin with have already divided themselves from the Church.
ReplyDeleteThis title is misleading. The Neocatechumenal Way has saved no one. It is Christ, who saves, with the cooperation of the souls being saved. Praise the Way for saving many is like blaming a weapon for killing someone. The Way is a tool, nothing more. It is Christ alone who deserves all honor and glory. As St. Paul writes, "We must decrease so He can increase."
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 3:16 p.m.,
DeleteWhen a fireman saves a person from a burning building, would you automatically think that the fireman brought salvation to the person's soul? That is what the title is mainly saying and if you read the article, it confirms that. Debbie was saying that the Way helped her cope with her divorce and saved her from committing suicide.
Also, the Way is part of the Catholic Church. Christ is her head and salvation flows from Christ through the Church together with her entire organization of which the Way is part of.
Since the Archdiocese has sent missionaries...PRIESTS who are incardinated in AGANA, why is it we don't hear a word about them. How they are, some pictures? In some cases they are not where it was published they are. WHERE ARE THEY, and WHAT ARE THEY DOING, and who is paying for their mission elsewhere when we are still short of priests???? Another MYSTERY of the CULT.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 3:19 p.m.,
DeleteFather Aurelio will be going to China, Father Edwin is in either Kenya and Tanzania, Father Santiago is in Japan. The other communities may know where the rest are. So, you are incorrect. It is not a mystery. You ask what they are doing?? They are evangelizing. And do not worry, your money is not affected.
Can we vote to send the rest of the NCW packing to Mission. I'll support that. They can evangelize elsewhere heck, they can talk to the rocks for all I care. Take them all. I will even pay for their removal and transfer out of Chalan Pago, Santa Rita, Agafa Gumas, Asan, Barrigada, the Seminary. Can we even send Apuron to be chief evangelizer maybe will find fullness since he "needs" the NCW for his personal and spiritual life. (His words)
DeleteDear Anonymous at 3:46 p.m.,
DeleteThe reason I decided to publish your comment is to show everyone that it is you and the jungle who is causing division, NOT us This is what Debbie said in her post above:
"Mr. White, we are all children of God, brothers and sisters in Christ. All roads lead to heaven, you through the Friary in Agana Heights and me through The Neocatechumenal Way at San Vicente/San Roke Church in Barrigada.
The Neocatechumenal Way will never separate, deviate, break away, whatever word you want to use, from the Mother Church. And nothing will separate you, Mr. (Tim) Rohr, and us from the love of God! Now how awesome is that?"
Now, look at your own comment, anonymous. It is YOU who wants to send us packing and gone, not the other way around.
Not divide, but consider yourselves a parallel church
DeleteDear Anonymous at 4:12 p.m.,
DeleteThe fact that you see us as a parallel Church shows that you are the cause of the division. Again, I suggest you read Debbie's article above. She never said that you were a parallel Church. The only one who used that term was YOU.
Thanks for publishing. I await an informed answer.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 3:32 p.m.,
DeleteThe communities know where their priests are. Then even announce it at the Beginning of the Year Convivience.
There you are, Diana, "the communities know". MOST of the People of God in the Archdiocese are not in the communities. And most have no plan to attend a Convivience. So DO YOU SEE the problem here. The Priest/Presbyters belong to our Church not "your communities." Please explain further.
DeleteSo what you are saying is that in order to know where these priests are and what they are doing, you have to be in the NCW. All others need not be informed!!!!
DeleteDear Anonymous at 5:03 p.m.,
DeleteNo, I do not see a problem. Why do you need to know where all priests go? Tell me, are you lacking a priest in your church??
Dear Anonymous at 5:04 p.m.,
DeleteIf you are close with your parish priest, then you would know where they would be going. The only reason the members of the NCW knows is because they are close to their parish priest. They interact with him a lot.
"The pilgrim Church is missionary by her very nature, since it is from the mission of the Son and the mission of the Holy Spirit that she draws her origin, in accordance with the decree of God the Father” (2). AD GENTES 2, Second Vatican Council,the Decree on the Mission Activity of the Church.
DeleteYes, we are short of priests. For your information, Diana.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 5:36 am,
DeleteDoes your Church have a priest?
Full time priest? NO. Diana, you are getting rather obnoxious.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:30 a.m.,
DeleteHow is asking a question obnoxious??? I asked......does your Church have a priest? I did not ask if he is full time or not. As long as you have a priest who is able to say Mass, then what is the problem?
My money is not affected? Then answer a simple question, who paid for airfare? Just that one, eensy , weensy item. Answer me that, and I'll ask another . Promise.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 1:43 p.m.,
DeleteYou did not pay for the mission families and missionaries who were sent off to evangelize just like you did not pay a single penny for the establishment of the RMS seminary. If you do not believe me, then by all means.....keep your money.
@AnonymousAugust 18, 2014 at 1:43 PM
DeleteI am not from/in Guam, but have been a missionary with the NCW for many years. My traveling expenses have been paid from my own personal money (when I began and still had... I also worked "on the side" a few times to cover travel expenses), and/or by my family and home parish neocatechumenal community. If I ask my community for help, each individual considers a free-will donation anonymously. I have never asked money (or anything else for that matter) from parishes or individuals where I have been sent. They have never contributed a single penny toward any of my travels.
I know from our meetings both at the regional and international level, that this is the way travel expenses are paid for all who are sent on mission in the NCW.
I hope this answers your question.
The honorable Archbishop is the Shepard of the flock, and his decision to lead the flock the NCW way is his prerogative. He was hand picked by God. So what do you want to do? If you don't like it then go join another church.
ReplyDeleteBernie
anonymous...do you really believe that God.....the creator of this eennssy,,,,, bbiittssyy universe and beyond needs your eennssy, weennsy money. Save your money, your security, your idol and good luck taking it to heaven.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteDiana/Juan,
Do you agree with what Bernie says?
Dear Anonymous at 6:20 a.m.,
DeleteI agree with what she says. She is correct that the Archbishop is the shepherd and was appointed by God. It was God's will that the Archbishop lead his flock into the NCW. If you do want to follow the Archbishop, you can choose to go to another church.
Diana and Bernie:
ReplyDeleteYou both just confirmed what many of us regular folk have suspected. The NCW and the Archbishop have the attitude of "join the NCW or find another church".
Join the NCW or get out.
Apuron is delivering that ultimatum to priests and his sheep just delivered that ultimatum to us.
Dear Anonymous at 5:36 pm,
DeleteThe Archbishop never told the priest to go to another church. It was only me and Bernie who said it to you. Join another church if you are against the Archbishop.
anonymous...you are making comparisons between coconuts and apples. Priest willingly take an oarh to God to take care, guide and protect his flock. Arch Bishop Anthony Apuron represents Gods authority regardless of the individual priests personal opinions. When a priest contradicts or questons Gods authority, he is no longer a shepard but a king. Taking a solemn oath to bring people closer to God, he instead brings people closer to himself. Instead of having the passion of San Vitorres who was martyred in service of Gods missionary work some priets just comfortable. San Vitorres traveled thousands of miles over open waters to evangelize whereas some priest can't visit the sick and suffering in their villages or hospitals. Too many preplanned events to attend, too many committees, computer time. In thier minds this probably what they are sayin to the Arch Bishop, I can't open my church to the NEOCATECHUMENAL WAY, I'll be presiding over the too many celebrations of the Word..another Eucharist, conveniences, reconcilations. I don't have time. They lost the passion anonymous. The passion to serve as San Vitorres, the passion to love and die for Gods people as his Son Jesus Christ. ...our first priest.
ReplyDeleteI have watched youtube videos of neo Eucharists. Is there dancing around the banquet table and clapping on Guam? I have heard that "idols" are any things, persons, or occupations that take a member's time away from neo gatherings. 1)Would a neo member who is the sole caregiver of an elderly parent have to make the choice between attending neo services and taking care of the elderly parent? Would the elderly parent be considered an "idol"?
ReplyDelete2) If a neo member has a job that requires overtime hours that coincide with neo gatherings that prevent regular attendance would this job be an "idol"?
3) Must both a husband and wife be neos? Would the non-neo spouse be considered an idol?
Please clarify what an "idol" is in the neo ideology.
Dear eileenbb,
DeleteThe dancing takes place AFTER the Eucharist is over.
The idols are the things, persons, or occupations that one place first before God. The elderly parent would be considered an idol if he/she puts the elderly parent first before God. If the caregiver could not find a baby sitter for that night but is able to find a babysitter for another night, then the caregiver is not putting the elderly parent first, but is being realistic.
If the member has a job that takes him away from the Way's celebration, but he is able to attend Sunday Mass because it does not conflict with his job schedule then his job is not an idol. On the other hand, if he is unable to attend both the Way's Mass and the regular Sunday Mass consistently, then he may be worshipping his job as an idol.
It is always best for a couple to attend Mass together and for a family to attend Mass together and even sit together as a family. That is taught in the Catholic Church regardless of whether one is in the Way or not. However, there are couples in my community who are walking without their spouse just as there are couples in the regular mass who attend church without their spouse.
An "idol" holds the same definition as the Catholic Church. It is anything that one puts FIRST before God. An idol is anything that one loves more than God.
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
What is the purpose of the dancing?
ReplyDeleteDear eileenbb,
DeleteIt is an expression of rejoicing before our Lord.
2 Samuel 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
Is this dancing part of the neo Mass? Or is the dancing performed after the neo Mass has concluded?
DeleteDoes the archbishop himself celebrate neo Mass?
Dear eileenbb,
DeleteThe dancing takes place after the Mass has concluded. The Archbishop celebrates both the Way's mass and the regular Sunday mass just as any other RMS priest.
Does the archbishop also dance ?
ReplyDeleteDear eileenbb,
DeleteWhy all the questions about dancing?
I was curious about the dancing when I saw it on youtube but in that video there was dancing during the neo Mass. Perhaps Kiko was influenced by the tradition of flamenco dancing and dancing is celebratory as evidenced by King David as you pointed out.
DeleteThis kind of sharing of information that is non confrontational is beneficial for both neos and non-neos.
The time commitment seems daunting. How many hours per week must a neo devote to the gatherings? It is admirable that disaffected Catholics can find their "way" back to the Lord.
Dear eileenbb,
DeleteIt takes about one hour (at the most) to prepare for the Eucharist. The dancing does not take long to learn.
I want to join this group and become a priest and evagalise in their spirit Who Will help me out please.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 5:02 pm,
DeleteYou need to be in a community. Where are you from?