Kiko Arguello confirmed Consultor For Pontifical Council
First of all, what is the Pontifical Council for the Laity. According to the Vatican website:
The Pontifical Council for the Laity is a dicastety of the Roman Curia that assists the Holy Father in the exercise of his supreme office for the good and the service of the universal Church and the particular Churches, as regards the promotion and coordination of the lay apostolate and, in general, the Christian life of lay people.............
The Council, therefore, is one of the instruments assisting the universal Pastor of the Church in the field of competence he assigns to each one. They render this assistance directly, in obedience and readiness to serve, so that the mission entrusted by Christ to Peter and his successors may be carried out in the most effective manner possible.
And what is the role of the Consultor? According to the Vatican website (the bold is my emphasis):
4.2. Members and consultors
Whereas the members of the Congregations are mainly cardinals and bishops – with the addition, in certain cases, of “some clerics and other Christian faithful”(21) – the majority of the members and consultors of the Pontifical Council are lay people, appointed – together with certain bishops – by the Holy Father for a period of five years. The bishops are generally chosen because of their particular function, especially as secretaries of other departments of the Curia.
“This Council (composed of men and women) is an expression of the different continents, the different cultures and age-groups of God's people. It has certainly not been possible to include all the situations and the social conditions of humanity... But, such as it is, the Council must endeavour to represent the laity as a whole”.(22) The Pope can therefore affirm that, in addressing the members and consultors, he is “in a way addressing all the laity”.(23) There is no question of a formal representation of Christian communities, associations of the faithful and other bodies, but only of the diversity of situations and experiences which the members and consultors – although appointed in a personal capacity – can express and interpret within the Council, which becomes in this way a presence of the laity in the Roman Curia, an expression of their concerns and hopes at the heart of the universal Church.
The members are called together periodically for plenary assemblies. On the basis of the experiences, the needs and expectations of lay people throughout the world, they discuss the general orientation and the programmes of the Council. The consultors are called to express an opinion on matters of their competence in theological, canonical, pastoral and similar fields.
It appears that Kiko's position as Consultor for the Pontifical Council for the Laity is not irrelevant after all. When the Pope addressed the members and consultors, he is "in a way addressing all the laity." So, in 2008, a change took place in how we were to receive the Body of Christ. We receive the Body of Christ standing up, and then we sit down. While seated we contemplate on the Body of Christ, which is resting on the throne of our hands. After everyone receives the Body of Christ, we would consume it sitting down. According to what I heard from Father Pius, this change came from Kiko who in turn received it from the Pope. So, if the Pope told Kiko, who is the Consultor representing the Way.....then essentially the Pope is telling the members of the Way of the change. The approved Statutes of the Neocatechumenal Way also states that Kiko Arguello (the International Team) must maintain close relations to the Diocesan Bishops. Since Kiko is the Consultor, whatever the Pope addressed to them at the Council must be told to the Diocesan Bishops who then in turn inform the laity (in this case the members of the Way).
How did the pope in 2008 tell kiko in 2014? Was it magic? Divine intervention? Your timeline doesn't make sense nor your rambling. Just cause kiko knows the pope doesn't make what he does right. I know president bush, doesn't make what I say or do good. And it came from Pius who heard it from Kiko. C'mon does anyone take notes or write things down? Talk about he said - she said. Where is the documents?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:07 p.m.,
DeleteThe change was made in 2008. I read somewhere on the Internet that Kiko was in conference with Pope Benedict as to how the communities were to receive Holy Communion before the Statutes were approved. Kiko was still a consultor. It says so on the weblink I provided. Pope Francis only confirmed Kiko as consultor for five MORE years. Kiko was a consultor under Pope John Paull II and even under Pope Benedict XVI.
Anything beside the Pope is just destructing, whatever rules or meetings toke place is not important, because the rule are made by our LORD and not by humans, period!
DeletePeace with you.
Anonymous at 10:55 pm,
DeleteFrancis of Assissi founded the Franciscans, and he was not a Pope. Josemaria Escriva founded the Opus Dei, and he was not a Pope. He was declared a saint. God not only works through the Pope, but also through members of His Church. Period!
That's right.
ReplyDeleteYour last sentence is wrong. Did you come to that conclusion yourself. He is one of many consultants to the Bishops and the Pope. The decisions of the Pope and Bishops will then be disseminated through proper channels, not through a layman.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 6:47 a.m.,
DeleteKiko Arguello is not just a layman. As I said in my post, he is also the Consultor for the Pontifical Council. According to our approved Statutes:
It pertains to the International Responsible Team of the Way, as indicated in Title VI:
1st. to make available to the diocesan bishops the spiritual goods described in art. 1 §3
2nd. to guide the implementation of the Neocatechumenal Way and to guarantee its authenticity;
3rd. to carry out its proper tasks as indicated in the present Statute;
4th. to proceed with those consultations which it considers appropriate;
5th. to maintain regular relations with the diocesan bishops;
6th. to maintain regular relations with the Pontifical Council for the Laity, the dicastery to which the Holy Father has entrusted the responsibility of accompanying the Neocatechumenal Way,9 as well as with the other dicasteries of the Holy See within the scope of their respective competence, keeping the Pontifical Council of the Laity informed;
The International Team includes Kiko Arguello along with Carmen Hernandez and Father Mario. The Statutes were already approved by the Vatican.
You are wrong. He is still just a layman. He is not a deacon nor a priest nor anything above. The neo is a LAY MOVEMENT. Therefore he is STILL a layman.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:46 p.m.,
DeleteI am sorry to disappoint you, but it is clear that Pope Francis assigned Kiko a position in the Pontifical Council. And the Way is an itinerary, not a movement.
And that documents is where? BTW. How did you like today's news. Cemeteries were in poor condition under the former rector Fr. Adrian. Wonder when he will be fired for mismanagement., the Archbishop looks like a laughing stock of the Catholic Faith he doesn't know anything. And the best yet- more to come. The poll results which you seem to ignore and not post like you did the other on I s a wake up call. Despite paid employee of the diocese Fr. Pius' calls to vote "very confident". The REAL people of Church voted. There will be a petition drive that will be coming asking for the removal of Tony by the people, for the people. Change the management. Change is coming. "Yes we can".
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:43 a.m.,
DeleteThe Catholic News Agency reported that Kiko was in a private conference with Pope Benedict on May 26, 2007 before the Statutes were approved in 2008. The discussion was on how the communities are to receive the Body of Christ: According to Catholic News Agency:
"Under the old rubrics, members of the Neocatechumenal Way celebrated the Eucharist gathered around large square tables and receive Communion while seated. The new regulations are quite different, with the community celebrating Mass with a separation between the congregation and the altar and communicants receiving the Eucharist standing in their places.
According to Giuseppe Gennarini, this way of receiving Communion sprang from a private meeting between Pope Benedict XVI and Kiko Arguello on May 26, 2007. The Holy Father liked the idea of the priest coming to each person with the Eucharist because it shows that Christ comes to you in the person of the priest, Gennarini said."
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/neocatechumenal_ways_new_statutes_are_a_landmark_spokesman_says/
As for the Archbishop, he was going by what the Auditor stated in their report rather than what the Pacific Daily News printed. As for the poll, are you sure they were the REAL people of Guam. After going to sleep, the "Very Confident" was way ahead. During the night, the "Not Confident" caught up. Sounds to me like people from outside of Guam voted.
But there is no mention of sitting down, except to say that sitting was under the "old rubrics".
DeleteFace it, you have no permission to do what you do. Nor do you have any proof that the alleged conversation between the Pope and Kiko actually resolved the manner of receiving communion. All indications are that the Holy See believed the members of the NCVW would "stand to receive" communion. In Church language that means "receive" and "consume". But Kiko is a manipulator, and can distort anything given the opportunity. That is why you continue to sit. You are being disobedient to the Pope.
This is proof of your delusion: "So, if the Pope told Kiko, who is the Consultor representing the Way.....then essentially the Pope is telling the members of the Way of the change. The approved Statutes of the Neocatechumenal Way also states that Kiko Arguello (the International Team) must maintain close relations to the Diocesan Bishops. Since Kiko is the Consultor, whatever the Pope addressed to them at the Council must be told to the Diocesan Bishops who then in turn inform the laity (in this case the members of the Way). "
The Church doesn't communicate that way.
Diana, was it in the private meeting with Kiko that the Pope also told the communities that they "concelebrate" the Mass?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 12:00 p.m.,
DeleteDo you remember what I said about "concelebration"? I DID say that according to the Sunday's Visitor's Catholic Encyclopedia, the word "concelebrate" had a different meaning to the Early Christians that today. In Early Christianity, ALL Christians concelebrated. Surely, you are not going to tell me that the Early Christians were wrong. The reason the NCW celebrates the Eucharist in SMALL communities was because in early Christianity, the Church was small at that time. The reason the NCW celebrates outside a "church" building and sometimes in a home was because the Early Christians did not have any "church" building to go to and celebrate in a home. The reason the NCW uses a table as an altar was because the Early Christians used a table as they celebrated their Eucharist in people's homes. Do you get the picture?????
Dear Anonymous at 11:46 a.m.,
DeleteThe problem was in how we receive the Body of Christ, not how we consume it. Before, we receive the Body of Christ sitting down. Now, we receive it standing up. Consuming the Body of Christ whether sitting down or standing up does not matter. The Early Christians consumed the Body of Christ sitting down. According to CatholicIreland.net:
How did the Corinthians celebrate the Lord’s Supper? As far as we can make out, from Paul’s text, the custom seems to have been to celebrate the Lord’s Supper in private homes; and the celebration included a fraternal meal which led up to the ritual of the Lord’s Supper. A beautiful custom which kept alive the memory of Jesus who sat at table with people to offer them an experience of communion and forgiveness.
http://www.catholicireland.net/the-lords-supper-in-the-first-christian-communities/
As I said before, we live in the age of information. The evidence is right there in the Pope's action. Pope Francis ceased all investigations of the Way. It is all over the Internet as to how we celebrate the Eucharist. The NCW is very large in Rome. There is absolutely no way that the Pope is ignorant on how we celebrate the Eucharist. It is all over the Internet, and we have never kept it a secret. Everyone knows about it. And what did Pope Francis do? He confirmed Kiko's position for another 5 years. So, if anyone is delusional, it would be you. You do not even know how the Church operate. The Pontifical Council (of which Kiko was placed under ) is under the Pope's department. So, the hiearachy of Pope-Bishop-Priest is not disrupted.
It is like the Executive Branch. The Department of Treasury is part of the Executive Branch and is much higher than any state treasurer. In the same way, the Pontifical Council for the Laity is part of Pope's department. As stated in the Vatican website:
The Pontifical Council for the Laity is a dicastety of the Roman Curia that assists the Holy Father in the exercise of his supreme office.
"The problem was in how we receive the Body of Christ, not how we consume it. "
DeleteDiana, this is where you have been badly informed. When we say we "receive the Body of Christ" we mean that Christ has come into our being. This can only occur when we consume. To hold the Blessed Sacrament in your hand is not what the Church means when it says "receive the Body of Christ". This is an example of the distortions running rampant through the NCW. Of course when only communicants "received" on the tongue, this would have been a non-issue. But the bottom line is that the Church never makes that distinction that you have made between "receiving" and "consuming", and so when the Church issues instructions on "receiving" communion, implicit in that instruction is the consumption (altogether it is termed "communicating").
Your reference includes the following statement: "and the celebration included a fraternal meal which led up to the ritual of the Lord’s Supper."
Notice the distinction between the "fraternal meal" and the "ritual of the Lord's Supper"? You know what these mean Diana, but you have been deliberately disingenuous. The "fraternal meal" is the agape, the "ritual of the Lord's supper" is the Mass. There are no instructions against sitting down for the agape.
I don't believe the pope is unaware of the practise of the NCW communion. I do believe he is giving the NCW to correct itself rather than be seen to be dictatorial. I expect that the pope believes that true Catholics would like to do as the Church does, rather than some random variation.
But if the NCW persists, I have no doubt that the Holy See will eventually act. The NCW are like little children, trying to "get away with it" for as long as possible, and distorting the instructions so as to suit its preferences.
Getting back to your original post though, and your comments about Kiko having a private discussion with the Pope about communion. Even if as you say, Kiko says he received such instruction, do you concede that it is possible that Kiko misunderstood the Pope? What if it is all a misunderstanding? Is it further possible that Kiko deliberately misled the ordinary NCW member because of his determination to do it "his way"? You stake a lot on a claimed private (secret) conversation that is prone to error. You could only have confidence if you believed that Kiko is free from the possibility of error.
Instead you can be guaranteed that you are protected from error if you do as the Church clearly instructs in its official pronunciations on matters of faith and morals (including the Divine worship).
Dear Anonymous at 4:42 p.m.,
DeleteDid you not read what I quoted from the article. According to the article.:
How did the Corinthians celebrate the Lord’s Supper? As far as we can make out, from Paul’s text, the custom seems to have been to celebrate the Lord’s Supper in private homes; and the celebration included a fraternal meal which led up to the ritual of the Lord’s Supper. A beautiful custom which kept alive the memory of Jesus who sat at table with people to offer them an experience of communion and forgiveness.
Jesus sat at the table with people to offer them an experience of communion and forgiveness.
Also, the Church does make two distinctions on how to receive Holy Communion. The two ways to receive Holy Communion is 1) by the tongue or 2) by the hand. We become one with Christ when we consume His Body and Blood.
I do not think Kiko misunderstood the Pope otherwise corrections would be made a long time ago.
Wrong. The voting for the poll closed at 7pm like it was supposed to. 10257 votes cast. Numbers haven't changed after 7pm. So that is another lie. Let us see what attendance is like at 930am tomorrow or the other masses. I heard the NCW was asked to attend since it poorly attended. But you all see him on Saturday. So to drive from Harmon to Agana to catch the 930 mass is commitment.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 9:19 a.m.,
DeleteI did not know about this poll. By the time I got a text message from a brother in my community, I got online around 10:00 p.m. and voted. In the morning, when I checked online, the voting was still open and the numbers had increased for the "Not Confident". So, it was during the night that they surpassed the "Very Confident" votes.
Nope voting closed at 7:00pm. I asked the PDN Newsroom before I cast my vote and sent in my voice of the people. You can call them yourself and verify. So I know you are lying. It was impossible to vote past 7:00pm cause the poll question changed and the page was updated. The "Very Confident" votes were NEVER high and dwindled downward at 30% to 40% but the "Not Confident" was always 2 to 1 at 62%, to 70%. BTW- What happened to my comment about the Japanese bishops letters supporting the removal of the NCW from Guam and the problems the NCW created?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 2:10 p.m.,
DeleteSorry, but I know what I saw in my computer. The voting was still open the next morning when I woke up at 6:00 a.m.
I am surprised the NCW leaders and Kiko himself don't ask the Archbishop to step down and step aside. He is giving them so much bad press and scrutiny. If this was corporate America, Tony would be fired for bringing bad publicity. He has brought so much division and hurt that the NCW Guam members have to defend him and help him. The NCW doesn't need Tony, cut him loose. He isn't worth it Kiko, Carmen and Fr. Mario. The Guam drama isn't worth it. Close the seminary, send everyone there elsewhere. Give the property back to the people of Guam and all will be well on many fronts. Try establishing the NCW in another country. We are not a 3rd world country or a mission or a place that needed to be conquered. Our faith is strong and you will see in the coming weeks. Guam doesn't need the NCW and the NCW doesn't need Guam. Regime change now! The bishops of Okinawa and Takamatsu and assisting in Guams cause and have sent letters of support which have been submitted to the voice of the people and variety.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 9:22 a.m.,
DeleteI think Kiko understands what our Archbishop is going through because Kiko is also being persecuted.
Persecution always seem to work in one direction with you. Everyone is always persecuting the Archbishop. Do you ever sit and think that it's the Archbishop persecuting people like Msgr., Fr Paul, Efren, John, and the laity? I wonder who is next?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:46 p.m.,
DeleteThe Archbishop has remained silent for the most part. I have not heard him call anyone "liar" nor did I hear him mocked anyone. What he said about Father Paul was wrong, and the Archbishop apologized to him in person. The fact that Father Paul felt that the apology was not enough and wanted it in writing is no longer the Archbishop's fault. As for Monsignor James, the Archbishop went by what was reported in the audit. Even the Governor of Guam would look at the audit. Anyone in position would do the same thing. If the Archbishop feels that he wronged Monsignor James, then it is up to him to apologize just as he did to Father Paul.
As for Father John, the Archbishop is stuck in whatever decision he makes. If he defended Father John, SNAP can sue the Archdiocese for 1 million dollars and Tim Rohr can proudly say that the Archbishop only defends priests who are in the Way. Since the Archbishop did not defend Father John, he is still mocked and persecuted anyway. So, it really makes no difference. The Archbishop would be damned if he helped and damned if he did not help. As for the laity, they are hurt because of the disobedience of some priests. When they were ordained, they promised to be obedient to the Archbishop. They broke their promise.
Delete
"Anyone on position would do the same thing". Well, the Gov was at the Cathedral steps last Friday. He must not think the way you do.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 3:04 p.m.,
DeleteFrom what I hear, the Governor also relies more on audit reports than what's printed in the PDN. How does anyone know what the Governor was thinking? Like everyone else, the Governor has a choice, The Governor may have gone there because he wants to pray for unity. I chose to stay away because it was a protest disguised as a prayer.
How about fr. Pious telling members on FB to specifically vote confident on PDN?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 5:28 p.m.,
DeleteWhat is wrong with that? Election is around the corner and people are always saying to vote so and so. Father Pius advertise to members on FB to vote confident on PDN in support of the Archbishop. What is wrong with that?
You obviously lack an understanding of real persecution. It's not your fault, you are all taught to pull the persecution card since your first convivance. But please, do not insult the saints and martyrs with your watered down idea of persecution.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 12:00 a.m.,
DeleteYou can tell that to the teenagers who felt driven to suicide because of persecution over the Internet. Bullying is persecution. There are many being bullied over the Internet, but some are strong enough not to pay attention to it while others are not. The jungle is all about persecution on the Internet. It is bullying at its highest.
Speak for yourself. Because me and my family need the NCW. God had saved us thru this charism. It's not for everyone but it is definitely for us. And besides I dont care about all this Neo/Non Neo thing going around. We are just regular people who need God. Why do we feel like the members of the Way are being looked at like some kind of terrorists about to destroy the Catholic Church in Guam. The NCW that I know of has saved so many lives, marriages, families. If there are some mistakes committed by sone of the members. God is the judge and he is merciful. But why try to destroy someting that has so many good fruits?
DeleteWhat about Fr. Efren? Fr. Matt? Aaron? Who is persecuting them?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 2:30 p.m.,
DeleteWhy do you think they feel persecuted? Aaron, for example, why would he feel persecuted? Is it because he was told no. Does not the Archbishop have a right to say no? If an employer decides not to hire you, do you feel that is persecution?
For Fr. Paul he wanted in writing so his name can be cleared. If you were in his situation, you too would want your name to be cleared especially if comments were said I. Front of his brother priest. But it doesn't stop there. He continues to mock other priest like Fr Efren.
ReplyDeleteFor Msgr James, if he was guilty of mismanagement so is Fr. Adrian who was the previous rector. Reports show that financial management improves since Msgr James came on board. It seems Rhat the Archbishops leadership skills are no longer effective to lead our church.
With Fr. john I wish him the best of luck. But it is sad that the archbishop can't even vouch for him to continue his ministry at SF. If he is innocent then defend yourself. Don't let accusations stop you from doing what you were called to do.
Dear Anonymous at 2:56 p.m.,
DeleteHow is the Archbishop continuing to mock others when he is mainly silent? Mocking is like what Tim Rohr does. I was told that Tim Rohr even mocked the Archbishop's entire homily. Mocking a homily?? It is only a homily. And homilies are part of the celebration of the Mass. So, even the Archbishop's homily is being mocked in the jungle?? As I said, the Archbishop was going by what the audit report says.
Release the full report and travel report as well. No redactions! And release the complete salaries, payroll and benefits. The people have a right to know. Do we the people pay for the utilities for the bishops private residence in latte heights/ adacao? The CNMI bishop got in trouble for the very same thing a while back.
DeleteDiana, pay attention. The archbishop was aware of the financial mess since January. In February, he was informed that Msgr. James had significantly improved the financial situation. You are saying the archbishop was relying on audit information yet he had that information since January, with an improved report just one month after. And he only chose to take action in July?! The archbishop is wrong and you are willfully displaying your ignorance.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:58 p.m.,
DeleteAccording to the news report I read, the Archbishop said he would release it soon if I am not mistaken. He already knows that some Catholics are asking to see the financial report. He already released the AAA report a few weeks back, so hopefully, the financial report will be released soon. Pray on it.
Dear Anonymous at 12:06 a.m,
DeleteI cannot answer for the Archbishop. At the time that he took out Monsignor James, the Archbishop said it was over the audit report showing that there were 7 million dollars in indebtedness.
"They broke their promise" ????? how about HIS promise to Rome? To the Holy Father? To the people of Guam? To be a Shepherd? A bishop is to have a special concern for priests, listening to them, using them as counsellors, ensuring that they are adequately provided for in every way, and defending their rights set forth in the Code of Canon Law. (Not violating them) Bishops (and Archbishops) should have outstanding in solid faith, good morals, piety, zeal for souls, wisdom, prudence, and human virtues, and endowed with other qualities which make him suitable to fulfill the office. It is not best 2 out of 3. It is all of them. - Solid Faith- Nope - not is he NEEDS the NCW personally and spiritually like HE said., good morals- Not so much, people with morals don't make personal attacks and gossip, piety- nope- just cause it is a "gift" doesn't mean you need to accept it- sell the car- give the money to the poor, by a ford focus- (the pope uses his) , zeal for souls- nope- he could care less about the poor, in fact he won't talk to you if you don't have money. I've met him several times - done projects for him, doesn't even look me in the eye or know me. He always introduces himself. Wisdom- nope- I'm really surprised he is even a Doctor of Divinity, I hope it wasn't with a D- grade. Prudence- Nope- Lost that LOOOOONG time ago- he has made multiple poor decisions in this career. So ask yourself. Is Archbishop Anthony qualified to the the Spiritual Authority and Leader for Guam? Not with a D- grade or even an F.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 2:59 p.m.,
DeleteThe Archbishop is the authority. He gave the priests a choice. They are to open their parish to the NCW or they will have one year to remain in their parish. All they had to do is choose. Instead, they wanted a third choice. So, who is the authority?
The Archbishop isn't the authority when others make the decision for him and tell him what to do- "His Responsibles, Kiko and Pius tell him" He doesn't take any action unless they say so. So that isn't much of an authority and more like a puppet or the Wizard of Oz (Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain)
DeleteThe Archbishop isn't qualified anymore and wasn't when he was chosen that is why he has so much problems. Rome makes mistakes too and sometimes it recognizes it too late.
Why the ultimatum choose NCW or be transferred? Didn't you read the clergy meeting transcript? Both the Archbishop, David and Adrian say that the choice was misconstrued and not meant to be taken that way(in front of the Nuncio- but the clergy knew they were lying). Like the choices he gave the deacons and deacon candidates- join or move aside. Why is it SOOOO important to have the NCW in the parishes? We are doing fine without them. Because the Archbishop was told to? It is a movement (classified by the Vatican and repeated on various news sites) If Bishop Flores or Baumgartner were alive they'd be shaking their heads because of what AAA has done.
Dark days ahead and sadly on this beginning of the golden anniversary.
Dear Anonymous at 4:48 p.m.,
DeleteHave you ACTUALLY heard Father Pius tell the Archbishop that he doesn't take any action unless they say so?
I read the letters that the Archbishop gave to them. It was not an ultimatum. It was a choice. All they had to do was choose. You asked why is it important that the Archbishop wants the NCW in the parish? Because the NCW has shown to help some families. It has encouraged some of the people to become priests and nuns.
How are you doing fine without them? The suicide rate on Guam is very high. Abortion is high especially among Chamorro women. Many families are being broken and youths are living with their grandparents. The drug rate on Guam is also high, as indicated by so many robberies and thefts in the village communities. The Way is not a movement. It is an intierancy in which people are called to live out their baptismal life.
Will the NCW conform to the recent announcement by the Vatican for the sign of peace and it's importance and placement in the liturgy? "The Neo-Catechumenal Way, a lay movement in the Church, has already displaced the sign of peace, in its celebration of the Roman rite, to before the presentation of the gifts. The Vatican congregation's decision to maintain the placement of the sign of peace was the fruit of dialogue with the world's bishops, which began in 2008, and in consultation with both Benedict XVI and Pope Francis." Or was it only a suggestion and you are waiting for the pope to tell kiko? The title movement isn't my words- it came form the Catholic News Agency, UCA news, the national catholic reporter- tell them.
DeleteArchbishop has no authority?says who? Tim Rohr?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 6:26 p.m.,
DeleteThe Statutes of the Way was already approved by the Vatican in 2008. It was presented and given ONLY to the NCW. So, we follow what the Vatican has already approved for us.
Diana so your answer is no. Thanks. I'll let the nuncio know that what the pope and council approved today at the Vatican was just a piece of paper and is non binding since it doesn't specifically outline the NCW nor is it in its 2008 statutes. Great to know that you are really "catholic" and that you all are being obedient to the pope and to Rome. Don't you see the problem here?
DeleteThe Congregation for Divine Worship has already decided that the sign of peace is NOT to be moved, and in the article it is mentioned that the NCW has "displaced" the sign of peace. Displaced meaning it is in THE WRONG PLACE. Therefore it is clear that it needs to be brought back to its rightful place; after the consecration and before communion.
DeleteAlso reference this portion taken from the same article published on CNA website:
The congregation for worship also noted that there are several abuses of the rite which are to be stopped: the introduction of a “song of peace,” which does not exist in the Roman rite; the faithful moving from their place to exchange the sign; the priest leaving the altar to exchange the sign with the faithful; and when, at occasions such as weddings or funerals, it becomes an occasion for congratulations or condolences.
So it is clear. Conform to the prescription of the Congregation for Divine Worship. If you further choose to ignore these instructions, you are being disobedient.
Dear Anonymous at 8:54 p.m.,
DeleteAccording to the CNA/EWTN:
" The Congregation for Divine Worship, in a recent circular letter, announced that the placement of the sign of peace within Mass will not change, though it suggested several ways the rite could be performed with greater dignity.
“The Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments … pronounced in favor of maintaining the 'rite' and 'sign' of peace in the place it has now in the Ordinary of the Mass,” Fr. Jose Maria Gil Tamayo, secretary general of the Spanish bishops' conference, related in a July 28 memo.
He noted that this was done out of consideration of the placement of the rite of peace as “a characteristic of the Roman rite,” and “not believing it to be suitable for the faithful to introduce structural changes in the Eucharistic Celebration, at this time.”
The sign of peace is made after the consecration and just prior to the reception of Communion; it had been suggested that it be moved so that it would precede the presentation of the gifts."
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-announces-desire-for-more-restrained-sign-of-peace-at-mass-36123/
It seems to me that the Vatican wants to move the sign of peace to the way the NCW is ALREADY doing it. It appears that the Vatican wants to follow the NCW by moving the sign of peace to precede the presentation of gifts. In other words, YOU are the one who have to follow what we are already doing in the NCW.
It was suggested by a few BUT after long talks it will stay the same place and that all other abuses including the NCW should stop and everyone should follow ROME. You failed to read the whole article and don't just read one read the several that are available. The pope agreed. Stay the same. So will the NCW conform or it will it wait for pope Kiko to offer his 2 cents.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:27 a.m.,
DeleteIf it still remained the same, then what changes are you talking about????? None of the news story I looked at says anything about the NCW needing to change the sign of peace. The news report says that during the sign of peace, people need to restrain themselves from showing emotion or not smiling.
Dear Anonymous at 12:18 a.m.,
DeleteThe NCW did not displaced the sign of peace. It was the Congregation for Divine Worship who allowed it and approved it to be displaced in our celebrations. You stated: The Congregation for Divine Worship has already decided that the sign of peace is NOT to be moved, and in the article it is mentioned that the NCW has "displaced" the sign of peace." Could you provide me the weblink of that article?
Diana,
ReplyDeleteWe should take advantage of all the exposure we are getting. Start putting up signs and hand out invites to join the Neocatechemunal Way. God Bless.
I wanna ask everyone here who ordain Father Paul, Father Mike and Mosignor James?
ReplyDeletePeace!
ReplyDeleteMy name is Antoine Tajalle and I am from the parish of San Dimas.
As we all know San Dimas had Father Mike Crisostomo for many years. The news of his transfer to Toto was not taken lightly, but then who wouldnt in any case? He was down here for many years. We were so comfortable with him that initially we all had planned that we would follow him to Toto. In fact, I did.
I have always looked and sought guidance from Father Mike, even to this day. Recently I chatted with him the day before the Prayer Service, I had some hesitations on attending and needed a word of encouragement but yes, I a "neo" attended the Prayer Service.
Well after the transfer of Father Mike, we all began the speculations on what exactly we will see unfold in our Parish.
1. A "neo" will be assigned.
-Indeed it happened, Father Wolchek was the 1st neo priest to be assigned to San Dimas.
2. Our Divine Mercy Chapel would cease, since the "neos" dont believe in the Eucharist.
-The Chapel is still open to this day, One of the First things that was encouraged of me by my "neo" Catechist was to frequent the Blessed Sacrament, If I could get to an Exposed BS then even better.
3. We will eventually become a "neo" parish.
-To this day I dont understand the difference.
The team of catechists did a couple rounds of catechesis and I ignored them all. I was recovering from an illness, directing the choir in San Dimas and eventually I was teaching Confirmation at Toto after removing myself from this now "neo" parish. I guess it wasnt my time. Forgot to mention top it off I was already a "brother" in the Cursillo.
Eventually I gave it a shot. I was also looking for something at the time and was experiencing a moment of spiritual dryness but at the same time living my faith as if I was okay. I thought to myself if I gave the Cursillo a chance I must give the NCW a chance, especially since I had grown accustom to despising anything "neo". It was in fairness that if I were to continue to judge the NCW, I should do it from the view of a person who has "tried" it out, rather than a person who heard this from someone who heard this from someone....get my drift? Well here I am today, a sinner, who wishes to tell the Archbishop to go ahead and discard all the nasty emails that I sent him all those times I did not understand something that was happening in our church. I want to apologize to the Communities of Barrigada who celebrate at the Chapel in Canada, for me driving up there with other ministers and placing judgement on their "weirdness" when we would park outside and spy on them dancing after their Eucharist.Today I would rather pray for our church. We have reached a milestone in our church where the "boat is being rocked" and no one likes this. This shaking of the boat is good, it can only make us stronger. Suffering brings families and communities together as seen at the prayer service and the many campaigns of support to all the clergy and also to the Archbishop.Fortunately, I rally behind the Archbishop because his YES has allowed me to now experience the NCW in its fullness. I am now blessed with an Itinerary of Faith that encourages me to celebrate the WORD of God alive in me, I now approach the LITURGY of the Church where I am given this taste of Heaven on Earth and God blesses me with a COMMUNITY to live in praise and simplicity like the Family of Nazareth.
God Bless You A3:05am. I too was seeking for spiritual graces and guidance. I was near death..having attempting suicide. My marriage was riddled w lies, infidelity, and betrayal. I forsaked my Catholic faith for a local "christian" group that proved to me they mock our Catholuc beliefs and tradition through their pastor's p reaching...that's when I realized that I am truly a Catholic and walked out during the preaching. Two individuals invited me to attend the Catechesis. I had refused but went later when my heart, yes, my heart said to go. That was 15 years ago... and I am still walking in the Way. Each Word, Eucharist, and my community bring me closer to God.
DeleteContinued...
ReplyDeleteAs for the Cursillo, at the Prayer Service held on the Cathedral steps I reminded and explained to the wife of the President of the Cursillo, that even if I am in a Community, I would still like to be informed of activities within the Cursillo, I would love to continue my support, it seemed that as soon as people found out about my involvement with the community, all info was discontinued towards me. This may just be coincidence or an error but I mention this because I realize how the Cursillo may be of help to others and I would love to contribute to this. I also share this because being in the NCW does not mean that I can no longer be a part of other movements, groups within the church.
As Christians we must rise above what we are experiencing within our church. We must continue to pray. There is definitely something that must be worked out but it does not help to be all crowded in a small room yelling at each other, nothing will be communicated. Am I yelling in this post? No, this is not my intent.
My Intent is to support the Archbishop and encourage everyone to unite in prayer.
*you may use this as a comment or as a new blog entry to encourage the support of others towards our Archbishop. Thanks!