The NCW supports the Archbishop and do not ask for the financial report. Some of them do not even care about the money and trust that God will find some good use for it that will either help the poor or the Church. Those who are against the Archbishop publicly announced that they will not give anything to the AAA. They also publicly announced that they will no longer donate their money to the Archdiocese of Agana and to those Churches that have the Neocatechumenal Way. Others say that they will only pay for the electricity of the Church. And ironically, these people who said they will not donate are the same ones demanding to see where their money is going. Their money.........the money they no longer donate?? How ironic or should I say hypocritical.
As you say we are all sinners and we are talking about millions of dollars.
ReplyDeleteOffices funded by the public are held to a trust. The public trusts that you will do the right thing with our donations. Publishing the financial activities ensures the public that that indeed is happening and that we can continue to trust those in that office.
If i gave the Diocese $1000 i would be very angry if i found out half went to cash payments for someone in the Diocese continually buying cigarettes or even buying weed!, or regularly splurging at a fancy hotel, when i am home frying spam fillets for my kids.
Financial reports reveal that.
Your argument Diana further supports the idea of separation.
Catholics on Guam should not expect to pay for any activities that cause division of it's body or any activities of a foreign entity whose corporate charter says that it is interests are for itself and is governed solely by foreigners.
Why are these foreigners entitled to receive our funds? And to receive it without any accountability?
Further, the Local Ordinary's governance of this foreign entity is purely CEREMONIAL. Just like the Queen of England and they lavish him as much if not more.
Well United don't give money at all to the Church. Keep it on your bank account so you can built interest, right? After all is all about money your after, I hope your one dollar kept gives you joy and happiness.
DeleteDear Catholics United,
DeleteAs far as I can see, the issue here is about the RMS seminary, which you see as foreign and Protestant with foreign people. There were approximately 17 RMS priests ordained from that seminary, and many of these priests are serving in Guam's parishes (which you do not want to support due to these foreigners). Yet, you feel that none of our money should go to the RMS seminary. Nevermind the fact that this seminary has produced priests that are now serving in Guam's parishes and nevermind the fact that Guam is now helping the Catholic Church by sending some of these priests to evangelize in other countries or in countries who need priests.
The Catholics in Germany who were outraged at their bishop for spending $20,000 on a bathtub appears more justified than your outrage of your money going to a seminary producing priests for Guam's parishes and the evangelization of what Christ Himself instructed all Catholics to do.
So what then,
DeleteIs there to be no expectation, no evidence of financial prudence is required on the part of the Diocese?
If RMS expensed millions of dollars by way of the Archdiocese to ordain 17 RMS priests over 14 years, that fact alone in itself justifies the refusal to submit financials?
What is the cost of a seminarians education? We should know. Since we are asked to fund the seminary, we should know what their tuition and their costs are. There are students like any private school. we should know how much it costs per month, per year, per day, to keep those guys under the roof we pay for.
Who knows the exact figure?
Should we just trust in the RMS that everything is above board and ethical. Because those numbers sounds more expensive than all the Ivy League universities put together. Maybe there could be ways to save money and attain their education cheaper? But who could begin know?
2:33 you don't even know..
Dear Catholics United,
DeleteI do not think that your knowing of the cost is the problem. The problem how are you going to react if........let's say that the total cost is $300.000 with the Archdiose giving 20 percent, then what? I read in the jungle that they want to close down the RMS seminary, despite that they do not know the exact amount being spent and despite the number of priests the seminary has produced.
Do you know where I see a waste of money? It is providing an entire seminary for one person. You do not need an entire facility to isolate one person. You only need one room.
The RMS is NCW. Why would you oppress a seminarian who does not want to be in the NCW? The Diocese needs to recognize that there are going to be people on this island who want to enter religious life, priest or sister, but do not want to enter the NCW.
DeleteWhat do you tell a future priest, you have to be NCW in order to be ordained on Guam. THAT IS RIDICULOUS. There should be programs in place to send the candidate off-island. Just like these RMS Seminarians were sent out of their respective countries.
What i recognize though is that when an RMS seminarian comes to Guam, the island supports him. Not his host country nor his family. If/When we send a candidate to another order the host seminary/university pays part of the costs, defraying tuition and room/board, the family of the seminarian pays the rest. If i'm wrong please correct me.
The 100 Room Former Accion hotel is a waste of money to operate as a seminary. 40 current seminarians? There's a pool, ballrooms, elevator, communication systems, is that building properly suited for a seminary, for any order?
It is the Jewel of the Archbishops' eye, nothing more.
Better watch out, Diana, Father Pius says he completely agrees with other seminary. Careful, there.....he might read your blog.
DeleteUnited - why do you cate? You don't pay anything anyway. Tim does not pump any cash but communities. I repeat it does not cause nothing. It came from Italy, US not from your dirty money! Benafactors not from here. Phssh. Not from you, a local donation from businesses who sponsor the seminary who are in communities. Why I know this I sponsor Gala dinner.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:21 p.m.,
DeleteI can disagree with him, but I will not disobey him. :-) In my opinion, I still think it is cheaper to get him a room rather than an entire facility. Just give him a room at the RMS seminary, his own private instructor, and meals delivered to his door away from the rest of the seminarians.
Dear Catholics United,
DeleteThe fact that this one seminarian has an entire facility all to himself shows that he was not oppressed at all. He was given what he wanted at great expense to the Archdiocese of Agana. As I said, it would be cheaper to give him one room at the RMS seminary, his own private tutor that is non-NCW, usage of the library on his own time, and meals delivered to his door away from the rest of the seminarians. Some of those 100 rooms have been converted to libraries and offices rather than remain as bedrooms.
I also believe that future priests on this island need to be taught to be obedient to the Archbishop of Guam in accordance to Catholic teaching.
The Archbishop cannot force any person into the NCW regardless if that person needs the Archbishops sponsorship. The solicitation of obedience through coercion is an immoral act.
Delete@10:29 The island of Guam has "pumped money" into that seminary since it began. I have "pumped money" into it. I have volunteered and fixed equipment on the grounds.
Don't insult me with your la sciochezza, how's my italian?
Dear Catholics United,
DeleteIf that is the case, then the person is not really interested in being a priest. Part of being a priest is to make a vow of obedience to the Archbishop. If the person cannot commit to this vow, he has no business being a priest.
Even to join a movement that is rife with suspect qualities?
Deletehowever if it was lost on you..the solicitation of one's obedience through coercion is an IMMORAL ACT.
Dear Catholics United,
DeleteA priest took a vow of obedience. It is not immoral when the Archbishop tells him to open his parish to the NCW and join a community. It would be immoral if the priest goes against his vow of obedience.
It's simply for evangelization for China and places that the Church don't exist.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 12:50 a.m.,
DeleteNot all the money goes to evangelization. According to the AAA report published in the Umatuna, 65% goes to the seminaries. There are 2 seminaries on Guam. According to that report, the RMS seminary only receives 20% of that because the other 80% is fundraised by the seminary. The RMS seminary also has produced more priests than the other one, and some of those priests are serving in Guam's parishes (which people like Catholics United do not want to support or donate any money to). The other seminary where only one seminarian stays gets 100%.
The mission families on Guam do not get any money from the parishes. They get their money from donations from either their communities, the NCW, or from selling or their things in order to be sent abroad.
To the Anonymous poster who corrected me regarding the photo on this post, I thank you very much. I wondered why the photo looked so fuzzy in my computer. I think the one I posted now is a nicer one. It is much clearer.
ReplyDeleteNo problem ;-) Yes, it is a nicer photo too. Anyway, I am the same anonymous a few posts back who also reminded you about people making up their minds so it is no use to try and change it...just like the Gospel this Sunday - eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear. I also asked for your prayers then and humbly ask for them again.
ReplyDeleteThank you kindly.
Dear Anonymous at 6:24 p.m.,
DeleteI do not know your name, but you are in my prayers. God knows who you are. God bless you.
Diana the financial report is of years past. In in those years I have donated and now I want to see the financial statement. So don't label me hypocritical ! Let the truth prevail if there is nothing to hide!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 1:46 p.m.,
DeleteRegardless of whether you see the financial report or not, that still will not change your mind in shutting down the NCW and its seminary.
Diana where in my statement did I ever mentioned anything about the RMS. You write as if you can read peoples mind and this is being judgmental. Please do not put words in my mouth. I just want accountability and transparency, nothing more nothing less.
DeleteI really don't care about whether the NCW stays or not. I really don't care about how people worship and pray.
I just want honesty especially from the church.
Dear Anonymous at 1:21 a.m.,
DeleteI apologize if you are not from the jungle keeping the money to yourself and telling everyone not to donate. I agree that the Church should be transparent in her financial report although I do not need to see it. I trust that God will put the money to some good use in the Church whether it be to the seminary, for the health insurance of the priests, salaries to the priest, building insurance for the Church, to purchase more Roman missals and candles, or to buy more toilet tissues, etc. As I said, my parish usually published a monthly report on its expenses in the Church bulletin, and I have not seen any bathtub there costing $20,000. Your parish should do the same, if it is not already. Even if the Archbishop published the financial report, he will still be belittled for it anyway. If I were him, I would publish it anyway. How he is treated will still be the same.
I agree the Archbishop should. $75,000 car is cause for concern, several thousands of dollars of worth of "archbishop apparel- rings, pectoral crosses, croziers, etc. business class airline travel, the high payroll for the Chancery Staff, the laundry list of unpaid vendors, a PRIVATE -gated home up north in Adacao area with a Marble "A" in the entrance/foyer. (What he needs this for is beyond me) - How do I know- we paved the area years ago and when we asked why to our bosses- who was it for - lo and behold it was the "private residence of the archbishop". See Diana, you don't know the whole 35 year history of him. I suggest you ask him and see what he says.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:32 pm,
DeleteThe Archdiocese did not pay for the Archbishop's car. It was given to him as a gift at no cost to the parish. I think it is reasonable to buy clothes needed for Mass, as long as he does not buy 100 shoes as Imelda Marcos did. As for the airline tickets, as long as they are justified, such as for medical reasons and job related. John Paul Ii was the pope who traveled to more places than any other popes. He definitely went out to evangelize.
Wow! You took money from the Archdiocese for paving the road? I know many brothers in my community who upgraded the parish for free at no cost to the parish . As a matter of fact, one brother installed a brand new air-con for the church out of his own pocket. He did not take any money from the parish.
By the way, it was good of you to pave the road to the archbishop's residence. Would be nice if our government did the same thing on public roads where I live. The potholes can do a lot of damage to the cars. I assume that you believe the Archbishop should have potholes in his road? It is reasonable to repair damaged roads, bit unreasonable to purchase a bathtub foe $20,000 as Germany's bishop did.
You're regrettable Diana.
ReplyDeleteYou focus your spin on the peripherals of the story, cast your condescension, and neglect the points that the poster identifies, calling into question the Archbishops' accumulation of property, the jewelry, the luxury car, the gated home. The Foyer with the Marble A, how bourgeois by the way if it is true.
Do you know in fact if all the Archbishop's travels and ticket purchases for other parties are justified?
Perhaps he does not have a $20K but only a $10,000 hot tub in his residence. Let's get that audited financial statement and find out.
Dear Anonymous at 4:16 p.m.,
DeleteThe key point in your comment is these words "IF IT IS TRUE." Because we do not know what is the truth due to the fact that we have not seen the financial report, I would give the Archbishop the benefit of the doubt.
Furthermore, the reason I was never interested in knowing the financial report was because all I ever gave the Church was $2.00 - $5.00 every Sunday. That was BEFORE I joined the Way. Yet, despite my pathetic contribution, my Parish managed to pay its electricity bill. God provides. AFTER joining the Way, I realized what a selfish person I was when it comes to giving to the Church. Today, I contribute much more money and even my time to get involved in my parish. This time I gave myself to the service of the Church rather than sitting in the pews every Sunday morning.
I remember that project. I have photo's that I will publish. The paving was not a donation- we just happen to be paving the area and came across the home.
DeleteYou, sir, are an imbecile. Anon at 1:32 obviously carried out the paving as an employee - a paid worker for someone else. How dare you impugn the motives and heart of this person? Would you be so damning to a "brother" in the community who received assistance by way of a collection? You reveal much of your own spiteful heart in your response.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the point was made that the alleged excess was the paved "A", not the ordinary paving itself. but you couldn't address that could you? Instead you had to make a personal attack. You then, with some acid, say "it was good of you to pave the road to the archbishop's residence". Trustworthy like the viper, eh?
Dear Anonymous at 4:29 p.m.,
DeleteFirst of all, I am a "madam", not a "sir."
Secondly, Anonymous at 1:32 was the one complaining about paving the road to the Archbishop's residence. According to Anonymous at 1:32 p.m, he/she stated:
"several thousands of dollars of worth of "archbishop apparel- rings, pectoral crosses, croziers, etc. business class airline travel, the high payroll for the Chancery Staff, the laundry list of unpaid vendors, a PRIVATE -gated home up north in Adacao area with a Marble "A" in the entrance/foyer. (What he needs this for is beyond me) - How do I know- we paved the area years ago and when we asked why to our bosses- who was it for - lo and behold it was the "private residence of the archbishop". See Diana, you don't know the whole 35 year history of him. I suggest you ask him and see what he says. "
This was a complaint. The brother in my community who installed the air-conditioning at my Parish did not complain. He was happy to do it and it cost the Parish nothing. The money came out of his own pocket, and he did not receive any reimbursement from the community. I have done similar things for the Church and for the community. I never asked to be reimbursed for the money I voluntarily spend for the Church and for my community.
And what church was this so we can verify? I know of no church that received such a donation and I speak with many of my brother priests.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 2:03 p.m.,
DeleteIf I told you, then you would know what community I am walking in. The air-conditioning was donated to the Church without any cost to the Church.
Anon 2:03PM why is it important for you know?!. You can't accept that we can donate our time and money to our parishes without anyone knowing? The same time we are part of the way?
DeleteIt's all about the money Diana. The anonymous who made comments here are blinded with lack of recognition. Hym of charity is unheard off from this poor soul. You folks don't like this comment because is the truth.
ReplyDelete