Monday, July 21, 2014
Sunday Mass Once A Month
One of the stipulations mentioned in Cardinal Arinze's letter to the Neocatechumenal Way on December 2005 is that the communities are to attend the Parish Mass once a month. According to the letter:
At least one Sunday per month, the communities of the Neocatechumenal Way must participate in the Holy Mass of the parish community.
Cardinal Arinze's letter
According to Kiko Arguello, a majority of the members in the communities already go to Sunday Mass once a month. Some communities even make a point not to celebrate Eucharist on one Saturday evening each month so that the brothers can attend the Parish Mass. There are also brothers I know who actually attend daily Mass including the Sunday Mass along with the Eucharist in the Way. I find that very admirable. It is unusual to see people attend Mass on a daily basis. However, there are also some brothers who are "fallen away" Catholics. They are still baptized Catholics but have not attended the Parish Mass in a very long time.
Having been away from the Parish Mass for so long, some of these "fallen away" Catholics find it difficult to suddenly go to the regular Sunday Mass. They appear more comfortable in the Neocatechumenal Way Mass despite that it is two hours long. This is where the members of the Way, the Catechists, and the Priest can encourage these brothers to start going to the Parish Sunday Mass once a month. After going to the Parish Mass once a month, they can feel more comfortable in attending the regular Parish Mass. Some of the brothers in the Way have also become more involved in the Church by becoming alter servers, lectors, choir members, and Eucharistic Ministers; therefore, these brothers sometimes attend regular Sunday Mass more than once a month. The brothers who already attend the Parish Mass on a daily basis is not a problem. They have actually gone beyond what the Pope required them to do.
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Dear Anonymous at 12:49 a.m.,
ReplyDeleteThank you for the weblink and I will use that instead of the one I found in Zenit. The reason I brought this up is to dispel the myth that the NCW does not go to regular mass. Most people do not know who are walking in the Way and cannot identify us in the regular mass. Some of the brothers in my community go to an earlier mass while others go to a later mass. And we do not usually sit together as a community.
Perhaps, if we make it a point to go to regular mass and sit together as a community, most parishioners can identify us especially when we exchange the sign of peace the way we do it in the NCW. That would dispel the ugly rumor that we are a separate Church.
"That would dispel the ugly rumor that we are a separate Church. "
ReplyDeleteThe best way to dispel that rumor would be to teach the Catholic faith rather than the variations in theology that are currently taught. There should be *no* separate NCW Eucharist past the first step, but all communities should worship with the parish always. There should be no separate Easter Vigil, no separate collections, no alternative hierarchy, and a lot of effort to avoid the insinuation that the "regular Sunday" Catholic is somehow deficient in their faith. That would be a good start.
Dear Anonymous at 11:42 a.m.,
DeleteIt appears that your answer is to destroy the NCW. You would also be going against the Pope. Our Statutes says that we are to celebrate the Eucharist in small communities, and this is approved by the Pope. The Statutes also say that we can celebrate the Easter Vigil. Are you really that insecure of God's words that you would rather destroy the NCW rather than seek unity and reconciliation with your brothers walking in the NCW?
In the first place, it was the NCW who got the brothers to get more involved in the Church. It was the NCW who brought back "fallen away" Catholics who have never attended the Parish Mass. Now, the NCW is encouraging these "fallen away" Catholics to attend the Parish Mass once a month. There is nothing deficient in the NCW because we have the approval of all five Popes including Pope Francis.
And for your information, the priests have been teaching the Catholic faith. The theology taught in the Way is Catholic because the Catechical Directory was passed by the Vatican. The Catechists have been using the approved Directory. The approved Statutes also says that we are to use the Catechism, the Holy Bible (preferably the Jerusalem Bible with footnotes and references) and the writings of the Early Church Fathers. I also listened to the priest's homilies.
Furthermore, we do not have any alternative hierarchy. Have you not noticed that the NCW obeys the Archbishop just as it is taught in the Catholic Church?
Well, the statutes do not say the NCW should celebrate a "separate" Easter Vigil, do they?
Deleteyes, I would be very happy to see the NCW destroyed if it does not conform to the Church.
Ahh, the old "five popes" argument....
"The theology taught in the Way is Catholic because the Catechical (sic) Directory was passed by the Vatican. The Catechists have been using the approved Directory."
If this is true, prove it.
Dear Anonymous at 3:12 p.m.,
DeleteJust come to the catechesis and find out. If you are very well-versed in Catholic doctrine, then you should be able to figure that out from the catechesis.
Dear Anon 11:42 - this only goes to show that you are deficient and outside the Catholic Church because The Way and our practices have been approved by FIVE POPES. Before you knock it, come to a catechesis and see what it is all about.
ReplyDeleteSo can you produce FIVE seals of approvals?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 2:19 p.m.,
DeleteWhat do you mean by five seals of approvals? Are we on the same topic regarding "Sunday Mass once a month"???
When we attend Mass - the whole congregation is a community of worshipers - there are no sects such as youth, Christian Mother's, KOC or NCW. We are there to give the glory and the honor to the Lord together with the saints and angels in heaven.
ReplyDeleteWe do not attend to identify the presence and strengths of our personal spiritual groups for that is pride and has no place in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
If you are attending to prove a point, then your heart is not in the right place.
Believe me most people in the parish know who are walking because the absence of their presence in daily and Sunday Mass.
ReplyDeleteYou can't speak for every neo on this island that have gone MIA in their parish. Not everyone volunteers or comes around as often as you claim they do.
I know of a family who attended together - parents, children and grandchildren. I greatly admired this family for that. Eventually, the son joined the NCW and he no longer attended with his parents. The parents did not complain about it and nobody questioned why their son didnt come around - we already knew. Years later, the mother passed away and now the widower attends Mass all alone because his son and family attend Saturday evening Mass with his NCW family. He is brokened hearted over this, and since the death of his wife, he has openly shared how his son's absence pains him. I won't expect you to understand or even care, but know there are other sides of the story.
I wish I could say this is a rare thing, but ask any non-ncw person in a parish and they will share similar stories.
Dear Anonymous at 1:16 p.m.,
DeleteI am not speaking for every way members on this island. I only know the communities in my parish, and believe me they go to the regular Sunday Mass. Believe me that many of them are very much involved in the Parish. Believe me that there are many of them who are even cleaning the church and maintaining the parish grounds without any cost to the parish. Believe me when I say that there are four people in my community who attend daily Mass including the Sunday Mass. The Neocatechumenal Way in my parish have done much to upgrade the parish and gotten involved in the parish in volunteer work.
I do not know the situation of the family you speak of. I do not even know what community they are walking in. What I do know and have seen is that when there is a death in the family or someone is hospitalized, the community members are there for them.
That's just the thing, "Diana". We don't "believe you". You are blind to the faults of the NCW. In your mind, there can be no possibility of error in the NCW, and even less so coming from the mouth of your prophet.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 3:14 p.m,
DeleteThere is only one way to find out if there really is any error in the NCW, and that is to listen to the catechesis yourself.
Dear Anonymous at 12:54 p.m.,
ReplyDeleteI would not call them sects because even the Christian Mother's is not a sect, but part of the Catholic Church. I have seen the graduating class of a Catholic school or public school attend Mass together. I have also seen the Franciscans attend Mass together.
One of the criticisms of the Way is that we do not attend the regular mass, and I know that is false. My suggestion is not to prove a point, because many brothers do attend the regular Sunday Mass. My suggestion is to eliminate the tension between those walking in the Way and those who are not walking. The neocatechumenal Way in my parish attends the Parish Mass, but not everyone knows who is walking.
So there are tensions in your parish? How would your group bundled together at a Sunday Mass alleviate these so called tensions? It would be better for you to separate and sit at different areas and mingle with others not in your own group.
ReplyDeleteThose Masses in which you reference (graduations, CM Convention, etc) are especially offered for those members - it is not a weekly thing that these different groups get together as such to attend Mass.
Now, if your members already attend Sunday Mass then power to the people and good for you guys. You don't need a big hoopla or banner to show others that you come. God already knows.
And if your members attend and help at the parish, then the parishioners will know who they are, simple as that. Maybe your members don't mingle with others which is why they are not known and you feel your prescence has to be made.
Finally the Archbishop did mot remain silent on the Fr. John issue and ousted him from this diocese. However, it is a disappointment that he knew about his case and was quick to incardinate him without following Canon law 269 as reported by our chancellor. I always thought the safety of our children was a priority. I guess only a select few are privileged.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 2:58 p.m.,
DeleteTim Rohr knew about it for nearly a year too, but the children's safety did not appear to bother him as well.
From Pope Benedict 2/11/2012
ReplyDelete"The progressive maturation in the faith" of each member and small community "must favor their insertion in the life of the greater ecclesial community, which is found in the liturgical celebration of the parish," he said.
But during the neocatechumenate's journey of formation "it's important not to be separated from the parish community, precisely in the eucharistic celebration, which is the true place of unity for everyone, where the Lord embraces us in our different stages of spiritual maturity and unites us in the one bread that makes us one body."
"..not to be separated precisely in the eucharistic celebration"
certainly doesn't bode well with the NCW 30yr Conversion plan
Dear Catholics Destroy NCW,
DeleteThe fact that many brothers in my community have involved themselves in the Parish life through volunteer work shows that the NCW did not separate us from the Parish community. If you had read my post, some of us now go to daily mass including Sunday Mass in addition to the Eucharist in the Way. Others who volunteered to be alter servers, lectors, Eucharistic ministers, and church choir members attend mass more than the required once a month stipulation that the Pope require us to attend.
So, Diana, what do you have to say about John Wadeson walking along with you guys and hanging out in SFO overseeing the communities and hiding something credible and criminal???? Just wondering.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 3:53 p.m.,
DeleteJesus walked with the cheating tax collectors, the prostitutes, and all the sinners. Father John is a sinner like all of us, and even he will admit that. Father John has not been convicted in 10 years of any criminal charges due to a lack of evidence, the fact that he was branded a criminal without substantial evidence makes him closer to Jesus Christ who was also branded a criminal without any substantial evidence.
I admire Father John for not going whining and crying to the media like someone I know who got kicked out of his parish. It appears that Father John is very obedient.....which is more than I can say for that ignoramus priest who leaked out information from a closed meeting and compromised the trust of his brothers.
Furthermore, because of this event, Tim Rohr can no longer play the "favoritism" card due to the fact that the Archbishop removed Father John from public ministry. So, there goes your accusation that the Archbishop only favors the Neo-priests. We knew all along that that accusation against the Archbishop was false.
What is "criminal" in your mind, dear Anon 3:53? Fr. John was accused some 10 years ago and was forced to step down by out of court settlement together with hundreds of perhaps unjustly accused clergy. No evidence has ever surfaced against him since then. So why do you say there is something criminal here? Can't you accept that someone is innocent until proven guilty??? Just wondering.
DeleteTim Rohr is reveling in the glory of his bloody revenge now. Just like his ilks, the liberal archenemies of the Catholic Church.
ReplyDeleteSome people do not like to go to mass twice a week. i understand them. So it would make sense to stop providing Eucharist in the Way once (or twice) a month. Then all those who are walking would go mixing their holy mass experience from week to week. This would help the walking in better appreciating when Eucharist is indeed provided in the communities.
ReplyDeleteCrucifying Fr John is the real "fruit" of Tim's Jungle Watch and his mob of traditionalist zealots. This is all the kind of fruit they are able to bear. They are able to destroy only, but building on faith -- they are completely incapable of!
ReplyDeleteThis is why NCW is becoming increasingly popular in Guam: we are able to build faith and trust, new communities for the Church and bear good fruits.
Fr. Joh. Crucified himself by hiding the allegations against him! He did it on his own accord and covered by the Archbishop. The truth is coming out. Accept it!
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:00 p.m.,
DeleteWhat do you mean "hiding the allegations"???? Tim Rohr knew about those allegations for nearly a year, so what was there to hide?? Rohr only decided to bring it to everyone's attention for revenge. Anonymous at 6:08 pm is correct. Tim's Junglewatch crucified Father John, and it was done in revenge, not in justice.
Why do you say he hid anything? Do you enjoy seeing other people being crucified? You should prove what you say somehow, in my opinion, before you make charges. The information about Fr. John was publicly displayed and available for everyone to read.
DeleteIt's called HONESTY! Father Wadeson should have been honest about being banned in LA before his incardination!
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:32 p.m.,
DeleteHow do you know he was not honest about it?
Dear Anonymous at 2:37 p.m.,
ReplyDeleteI never said that there is tension in my parish. I said there is tension between those who walk in the Way and those who do not walk because those who do not walk spread the rumors that we do not go to Sunday Mass, which is not true. When the Responsible tells us to go to Sunday Mass because there will be no Saturday Eucharist that night, many of us go, but we attend at different times and do not sit together. Nevertheless, the false rumors persists that the NCW do not go to regular Mass. Not every one knows the people who walk in the Way unless they ask them. The Responsibles are usually well-known, but most members are not well-known, and we do not go advertising that we are in the Way.
If he was honest about it, then it falls on the Archbishop! Honesty!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 7:45 p.m.,
DeleteI do not know what country you live in, but in my country, a man is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Why not go back to the jungle where they will tell you that the Archbishop (including Tim Rohr himself) knew about those allegations.
And when you go back into the jungle, you will find that Tim Rohr is now saying that Father Wadeson is not the issue and he is not the danger. Imagine that!!!! At the time that Tim Rohr made everyone aware of Father's John's allegation, he is now saying that Father John is not the issue and not the danger. So what happened to all that fuss about endangering children's lives???? Suddenly, Tim Rohr is saying that Father John is not the danger?? He was never a danger to any little children and Tim Rohr knew it all along for nearly one year that he kept quiet about it. So, yes, Tim crucified an innocent man. That is the fruit of the jungle.
I don't know what country you live in but the safety of children takes precedence over a man's presumed innocence especially when credible sources have so marked him as a public risk.
DeleteDear Catholics Destroy NCW,
DeleteIf there were actually credible evidence as you say...he would have been convicted and sentence to jail. The public risk are those whose names were listed on the National Registry for Sex Offenders.
The list that Father John's name was on stated in the above that those accused are only allegations and the U.S. legal system holds that a person is innocent until proven guilty. That list never said they were a public risk.
By the way, Catholics Destroy NCW, I will simply shortened your name to "Destruction" because your adopted name is too long.
DeleteHonesty...you folks are in denial...allegations....banned...what more...
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:27 p.m.,
DeleteWhat denial. It is right there in the website that Tim Rohr provided for you. Do you know the reason he was banned from the Archdiocese of L.A.? We already know the reason he was removed here in Guam, and it was because of SNAP. Did it occur to you that the reason for the bann in LA is the same reason as here in Guam? If he is not removed SNAP can sue the Archdiocese of LA one million dollars for keeping him in. Nevermind the fact that there is a lack of evidence for ten years.
The Archdiocese of Los Angeles deemed him a risk to their flock
DeleteDear Destruction,
DeleteDo you have any evidence to support this other than your opinion?
So if he was innocent then why did the Archbishop remove him? Why?
DeleteI prefer to comment on the issue than to throw around insults when nothing substantive can be proffered.
DeleteDear Destruction,
DeleteDon't you read the news? I got it from KUAM. Below is the weblink from KUAM, It will tell you that the Archbishop removed him because of SNAP.
http://www.kuam.com/story/26076751/2014/07/22/archbishop-takes-action-against-priest-accused-of-child-molestation
According to KUAM:
Archbishop Anthony Apuron has removed Father John Wadeson from active and public ministry on Guam. The action follows the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests (SNAP), calling on the archbishop to have him removed. According to the organization, Fr. Wadeson was accused twice of child molestation and had been banned from the Los Angeles Archdiocese.
Although he was not convicted of any crimes, SNAP says the fact that he was banned from ministry in California is just cause for the archbishop to have him removed.
Dear Destruction on 9:11 p.m.,
DeleteI hope you remember the reason why I said to change your name. You were caught showing that your only desire is to destroy the NCW. You have absolutely no desire for any kind of unity or reconciliation with your brothers in the Way.
Dear Diana,
DeleteIf your leader would just get off the fence and follow his Lutheran heart we'd talk about other things.
I can imagine placing kids under Fr. John's care for their conversion because as the Archbishop said it is necessary for evil to reside with us.
Dear Destruction,
DeleteMy leader is not Lutheran. My leader is the Pope and the Archbishop.
By the way, your new name is very unchristian. Jesus love all sinners. It is the sin that He does not love. Christ love the homosexuals, the pedophiles, the prostitutes, and all sinners. It is the SIN He does not like. A true Christian would say "Catholics united against Pedophilia (the sin).
You need to pray and reflect on the whys?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:32 p.m.,
DeleteGod allows these things to happen for a reason. We cannot see what it is now, but soon it will be revealed in the long run. We have faith that God have something better planned for Father John.
The Archbishop is to blame. He knew all along and did nothing! The buck stops at him
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:32 p.m.,
DeleteWell, you no longer have to worry. The Archbishop already removed Father John.
The Archbishop knew and was derelict in his duty. He is the head of the church here on Guam so he is responsible for allowing Fr. John here.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:34 pm,
DeleteI do not know what country you are from, but in my country, IF a crime is committed, our judicial system goes after everyone involved, not just the leader.
If you only know of your parish, where are you getting that there are tensions?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you know that we don't about tensions?
Hafa Diana? So obviously still like to read Jungle Watch. What happened to"don't go there"
ReplyDeleteHypocritical aren't we? That's why you have no credibility whatsoever with your claims.
Dear Anonymous at 8:45 p.m.,
DeleteI did not go there. An anonymous poster copied and pasted Tim Rohr's blog, but I did not published it. I deleted it instead. I already said that I do not want any comments from the jungle.
Dear Anon 8:45, we are free to see, read and collect any and all information deemed to be useful for protecting the integrity of the Church and the Neocatechumenal Way. Yes, we even monitor Junglewatch, although we do not like to comment there unless it is absolutely necessary in order to save souls. We are up to save those who were misled and driven away from decent Christianity. However, because of their stubbornness, this chance of saving any of the Junglebloggers is mostly gone by now...
DeleteLet me observe though that more and more of you from the Jungle come over here to read Diana's blog. Perhaps because deeply down in your heart you are secretly abhorred by the two-face, morally deplorable manipulations and viciousness of Tim Rohr. You come here to read Diana's straightforward posts and comments in order to admire her crystall-clear explanations and guidance to untainted doctrinal clarity. You are welcome!
Dear Anonymous at 8:37 p.m.,
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I heard in my parish is that some people are being falsely accused of walking in the Way. Some parishioners were approached by other parishioners and started bad-mouthing them, thinking that they are walking In the Way. When told that they are not part of the Neocatehcumenal Way, they shut their mouths. So, in my parish, there are many parishioners who are ignorant because they do not know who is in the Way and who is not.
The disclosure of the Archdiocese harboring a pedophile priest, if that doesn't cause a division i don't know what would.
ReplyDeleteI keep my nickname since you can't attack a sin until it's materialized into some form or another.
Dear Destruction,
DeleteAttacking the person is wrong regardless of whether the sin materialized or not. It is allowable for a Christian to speak out against sins such as abortion, same sex marriage, fornication, adultery, etc. It is wrong to attack a person. It is even more wrong and judgmental to attack someone who have not been charged of any crimes.
Diana, CREDIBLE accusations is ENOUGH in the area abuse! CREDIBLE....you really are out of your depth. You are embarrassing yourself and you don't even know it. Your comments are alarming.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:22 p.m.,
DeleteCredible accusation should be enough to convict a person. But where is the conviction after 10 years??
With this sentiment and empathy toward pedophile priests then does the NCW embrace them? Are there more?, should these newly ordained priests be re-vetted?. Seemed this one slipped through the cracks.
ReplyDeleteDear Destruction,
DeleteShow me when Father John has been convicted of pedophilia.
Diana, don't know how exposed you are to other cultures....the famous NEO sign of peace is the European kiss....have to get out and about, my dear.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:47 p.m.,
DeleteThe sign of peace in the NCW is called the "kiss of peace". The greeting with a kiss on the cheeks is a custom practiced by Jesus and in Judaism. When we give the kiss of peace on the cheeks, we say "Peace be with you and with your spirit." All you had to do was read the Holy Bible to learn that that the kiss of peace actually came from Early Christianity. It is right there in the Holy Bible!
1 Peter 5:14 Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.
Romans 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
1 Corinthians 16:20 All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss.
2 Corinthians 13:12 Greet one another with an holy kiss.
1 Thessalonians 5:26 Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.
As you can see, Jesus and the Early Christians kiss each other on the cheeks in greeting. The way you are doing it in the regular mass is the "American" way.
Dear Diana,
DeleteYou are right Fr. John has never been convicted of sexual abuse they were just allegations. So why did the chancery remove him?
Dear Anonymous at 10:06 a.m.,
DeleteThat question was already answered under this thread. Read my comment to Destruction on July 22 at 9:12 p.m.
According to the definitive statute of 2008, the Mass (also called Eucharist, and not just by recipients of the NCW) celebrated in the Neocatechumenal communities IS A SUNDAY PARISH MASS. Card. Arinze apparently wasn't aware of this fact when he communicated the pope's wishes in 2005.
ReplyDeleteWhether a pastor provides for the Mass celebrated in the Neocatechumenal communities every week or not, whoever participates in whichever Sunday Mass of the parish, fulfills the Sunday precept AND Card. Arinze's confusing request.
However, if the pastor cares to implement the Neocatechumenal Way in his parish according to the directives of the Holy See (in line with the intention of the initiators), he will make sure that Mass is celebrated in small communities after the first vespers of Sunday (which is, in civil terms, Saturday evening).
As for the faithful, as always and everywhere, they are free to choose whichever Mass they want to attend, and it is most ridiculous to insist that they should go to this or that other celebration of the Holy Eucharist when we can't even manage to make most people understand that they NEED to go to Mass every Sunday. An unbelievably high percentage of Catholics is utterly unaware of their need of this sacrament on a weekly basis and a very low percentage fulfills it as an obligation.
It was through the NCW that the Lord helped me understand how much I need this sacrament and what a gift it is to me. People who insist which Mass I should and which I shouldn't attend once a month, just don't get the picture and I wonder how much they are interested in my or anyone else's salvation.