Monday, July 17, 2017

Twisting Of Words

The jungle is well known for twisting words out of context.  For example, let us take a look at this anonymous poster's comment (the bold underline is mine):

No surprise that you focused on the comparison of Rohr to St. Catherine, Diana @ 3:27 PM and judged him as being closer to Luther than to a saint.
No surprise that you ignored the first part of the comment made by Anonymous @1:20 PM about why Apuron could be excused for his homosexual activity.

BTW: Even Pope Emeritus Benedict said that the Church seems to be on the verge of capsizing these days so Tim Rohr's POV is not so unusual. We have a Pope who says a lot of things that people find confusing (like cohabiting couples have more sacred unions than those who marry in Church) so people aren't sure what to believe anymore.

In the words of St. John Chrysostom: “I do not think there are many among Bishops that will be saved, but many more that perish.” -Extract from St. John Chrysostom, Homily III on Acts 1:12. 

I asked the person to provide me a weblink as to where it says that Pope Francs says that cohabiting couples have more sacred unions than those who marry in Church.  And this is the weblink he/she provided, which is found here.  

Nowhere in that weblink did the Pope say that cohabiting couples have more sacred unions than those who marry in Church.  This is what the Pope stated (the bold is mine):
“I’ve seen a lot of fidelity in these cohabitations, and I am sure that this is a real marriage, they have the grace of a real marriage because of their fidelity,” he said. 
The words were twisted out of context.  What the Pope is actually saying is that some cohabitating couples have the grace of a real marriage because of their fidelity.  Couples who are married in Church but later divorce after three or five years did not have the grace of a real marriage.  Rather, they have made a mockery of the sacrament of marriage.  

Perhaps, if the anonymous poster had read the entire article rather than taking one or two sentence out of context, he/she would have understood what the Pope was saying.  In no way is the Pope saying that couples who cohabitate should receive Holy Communion.  In fact, Holy Communion was not even mention in the article.  The Pope is actually saying that cohabitating couples who live together or are married in civil court for more than 10 years have the grace of a real marriage due to their fidelity while the couple who married in Church and divorced after five years has made their marriage null.  

The Pope's suggestion is to help these cohabitating couples to become more mature and secure so that they could take the step into the sacrament of marriage.  By the same token, couples who are married in Church also need help in their struggle for fidelity to their marriage vows. Cohabitating couples who have lived together for more than 10 or 20 years apparently have the GRACE to remain loyal to each other and eventually can enter the sacrament of marriage.  Couples who are married in Church also need this same grace constantly in their marriage so that they can stay together through good and bad times.     

Another comment came through my blog, which I have not published due to the derogatory words.  Nevertheless, I will respond to that as well.  The following comments came from the jungle:

I said months ago that Blockley is a loose cannon who was kicked out of a US diocese by the bishop for working there without faculties.

I got slammed for telling the documented truth. He caused a mainstream media shitstorm in New York. Now you're finding out just how disreputable he really is.

  1. Wrong. I knew all along. He was useful at the time.
  2. You lied about rotten Blockley's sterling character and went totally off on me when I exposed his NY transgressions here. You are as deceitful as the Neos.
Anonymous 10:33 am was correct to some extent. Tim Rohr did not know all along. In fact, he changed his story. The following comment was made by Tim Rohr on August 5, 2014 regarding Father Blockley being AWOL. Tim Rohr stated:
Fr. Blockley was AWOL for a very good reason. In fact, if it had happened to you, you'd go AWOL too.
Today, his song and dance changed.  This is what Rohr stated recently (excuse the vulgar language):
You can have the AWOL piece of shit.  
As anyone can plainly see, gone is the excuse of Father Blockley being AWOL.  The stories in the jungle never stays consistent. Therefore, Anonymous at 10:33 am was correct about Rohr.  However, he was incorrect about the NCW.  I never change my stories.  


  1. What is more bothersome than the twisting of words and half truths if the jungle blog is that there are many people who believe it.
    Ive met a whole lot of people who have judgments of the church and especially the NCW and most of the time their views are based on things that originated in the jungle blog. When I realize this I then take the time to sit down with them and tell them the entire truth, I clear the record. Most of the people share that it now all makes sense to them. Id like to share some common questions that I have received about the NCW.

    1. Why do you do Public Confessions?
    Answer: We dont do public confessions. Your confession is reserved to be heard by a priest. What does happen is that sometimes when we are given a WORD from scripture it brings us to our daily reality, our struggles, sin, mistakes. Many times though these things are shared because the WORD helps us through them. Theres a difference between a response/reflection/experience/testimony in light of a WORD from scripture and the sacrament of Confession.

    2. Why do you sit and pass around the Body and Blood of Christ?
    Answer: We dont. With special permission though, instead of forming a line, the priest approaches the communicant.

    3. Why do you dance at your Mass?
    Answer: We dont dance during the mass. After the Priest has exited the main sanctuary we form a circle and reverently celebrate what has just took place. Even though the Mass has ended, the celebration must continue because it is joyous to celebrate the resurrection, the passover. Many may have entered into the Mass(Eucharist) dead and grumbling and are now experiencing life because of the saving power of God working through the WORD and EUCHARIST. Those who dont want to dance usually join in by just clapping along with the music or playing their instruments.

    3. Why do you abandon your family for community? Didnt they just have a party and you chose to go to community instead?
    Answer: The community doesnt come first. GOD comes first before anything else. With that as a priority it is also better for me to work on my relationship with Christ rather than on social gatherings. I am only with my community 2-3 times a week, I still have the other 4-5 days to spend with my family.

    4. Is it true that you are going to have to give all your property to the Neos?
    Answer: NO! I dont have to give anything that I am not happy to give away. I also cant give the NCW any property because by their regulations they cannot own any real property. I have never been forced to give anything unwillingly.

    5. Is KIKO your prophet?
    Answer: In the context of biblical prophets, No! Kiko, the initiator of the NCW is just that, the initiator. I will admit though, when you have someone who constantly is helping you with good words of encouragement, courage, perseverance, you then have a tendency to rely on them for a word. I know that Kiko is only an instrument that God uses. Ultimately it is God doing all the miracles. We are always reminded to stay away from Kikoism. Kiko to me is the same as you having a priest whom you really learn from their homilies and actions. I also have certain priests whom always seem to hit the spot.

    6. Why are the Neos forcing everyone to join? I am Catholic, I dont want to change.
    Answer: Are you in a Neo community? No right? So I guess there wasnt any force. Im still Catholic, the NCW is just a gathering of Catholics who want to try and gain more faith. Joining the NCW does not change your religious affiliation. The NCW is approved by Rome to be valid for todays society.

    More to come...

    Sorry Diana but I just had to and maybe it would be good to publish a post on CLEARING THE RECORD or MYTHS vs FACTS.

    -Jokers Wild

    1. Thanks, but:
      1. The experience of the second scrutiny can be terrible and is essentially a public confession
      2. Up until very recently you sat to consume communion. Why was that your preferred way of receiving communion, and do you think you had the right to ignore the GIRM?
      3. If the Mass is Calvary, as many saints, mystics and popes have taught, then effectively you are dancing around the foot of the cross
      3 (again): Community = God
      4. The Initiator’s and leaders’ ready access to immense amounts of money indicate that many are giving substantial material assets to the NCW
      5. Kiko writes the tunes you sing, paints the icons you buy, designs the “tableware” you use, gives a teaching that required many thousands of corrections by the Vatican, and apparently can decide that Carmen is a great saint!
      6. To be a fully fledged NCW, you must disregard your faculty of reason and accept silly things, in order to be part of the group. For this reason, among others, the NCW teaches weird and silly things – like that God sends illness and death; or that Jesus throws mud in your eye…Pah!; or that its good to drink milk and honey symbolically during Mass – even though supposedly the real Christ’s blood has been poured out to drink already!

      Thanks for opening a proper Q and A dialogue Joker

    2. Thankyou Joker.
      Studied each point.
      There is nothing really wrong with objectives answers you give.
      As long as you do not disrespect the Holy Mass I see no problem. It is approved by the Holy See period.
      I personally enjoy a quiet Mass in a chapel. That is me. We all agree in the Holy Eucharist the Bread Wine become the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Earth meets heaven in the Eucharist and we experience the presence of God.If the Holy Mass as celebrated in the NCW helps others come closer to God then really what is the problem? The Holy Mass is the Mass. As long as you work within the guide lines of the Congregation for the Sacraments divine worship that is what matters.
      Thank you for your time in explaining in clear concise terms the way.
      As Diana says the way is not for everyone. Not everyone has to join. At least lets respect our unity in diversity.

    3. Dear Jokers Wild,

      That is an excellent idea. I will publish a "Clearing the record" post on your comment.

  2. The stories of Tim Rohr published in jungle never stay consistent. Rohr consistently twists facts to support his drama.
    In reference to Father Matthew Rohr writes " He was useful at the time" Rohr continues "Blockley useful until he wasn't"
    These detailed inconsistences of Tim Roar raise questions concerning his thesis.


  4. So it's ok for the neocult to twist words and facts but if the truth and actual facts with documents to back it up come out, you assume it's twisted or fake news. You people are something. You are all losing and yet you still try to justify all the lies your group spreads.

    1. Dear Anonymous at 4:53 pm,

      As I said, the NCW has always stuck to the same story. What actual facts with documents do you have? The evidence is right there in front of you. Rohr has been caught telling different and opposing stories many times. This is not the first time he has been caught doing it. A man who changes his story a lot is a man who has something to hide.

    2. Thats just what they said about Jesus