This is my response:AnonymousMay 6, 2016 at 1:51 PMAnd, by the way, there could be no "banquet" without the sacrifice., but there could be a sacrifice without the "banquet", because the banquet is merely a foretaste of the heavenly banquet to come.
In any case, it is the sacrifice which accomplishes the redemption, not the resurrection, not the banquet, not the celebration. It is fine to be joyful that you are redeemed, but not if that prevents you seeing that the sacrifice which accomplishes your salvation is happening on the altar (sorry, I know you'd rather I said banquet table) right in front of you. But you just carry on dancing around your table, without the slightest thought of the sacrifice that is occurring in front of you.
We are the children of the Resurrection. We are not the children of death. Our redemption was accomplished through Christ"s passion AND resurrection. The wages of sin is death, but in Christ there is no sin. Therefore, death cannot hold nor contain Him. Without the resurrection, our preaching and faith is in vain (See 1 Corinthians 15:12 and CCC 651). This is why Sunday is the Lord's Day for it is the day Christ rose from the dead. It is the day of Christ's resurrection. Of all the days, it is Sunday that is blessed (CCC 1167), and it is on Sunday in which our life is blessed by Him and by His death (CCC 2175). According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
2177 The Sunday celebration of the Lord's Day and his Eucharist is at the heart of the Church's life. "Sunday is the day on which the paschal mystery is celebrated in light of the apostolic tradition and is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church."Good Friday is commemorated by Catholics as the crucifixion and death of Christ, but it is a solemn commemoration. Good Friday is a day of fasting for the Catholic Church. Traditionally, there is no Mass and no celebration of the Eucharist on Good Friday. A person who takes communion on Good Friday receives the host consecrated on Holy Thursday.
- "Also to be observed are the day of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension of Christ, the feast of the Body and Blood of Christi, the feast of Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, the feast of Saint Joseph, the feast of the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul, and the feast of All Saints."
We are the children of the light and the resurrection. We are not the children of darkness and death. Christ's death on the cross symbolized His love for us, and it was our sins that nailed Him to the cross. Because of Christ's victory over death, we no longer fear death for the gates of Heaven have been opened to us by Christ, our Brother who is the Life and the Resurrection.
We are the children of the life and the resurrection. Christ, our Brother, is also the life and resurrection. In Him, there is no death, and we are one with Him. The God we worship is the living God. He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living (Matthew 22:32, Mark 12:27, and Luke 20:38). The good news that the Catholic Church spreads throughout the world is that Christ is risen!
Through our baptism, we are the sons and daughters of God. We have become the children of the Light. We are the children of the life and resurrection. We are not the children of death or of the dead.
Its quote amazing that despite the context of the comments you have quoted being specifically what is believed about the Mass, your post does not mention the Mass once.
ReplyDeleteYes, the resurrection is central to our faith, because without the resurrection there is no hope of eternal life. And through the resurrection the gate of heaven was opened up for mankind.
But that is not what we were talking about.
We were speaking of the Mass, which "commemorates" or more precisely, re-presents the sacrifice made by Christ at Calvary. The action of the Mass is the same sacrifice made present again for the salvation of men. It is this sacrifice which effects our redemption - the atonement for sins.
The action of the Mass is not the resurrection per se, although of course, as I said the resurrection is central to our faith and can't be discarded.
For protestants and for the NCW, the Mass is re-written without the centrality of the sacrifical action. IN its place is the celebration - an ode to joy, apparently because the resurrection makes us happy. Which is fine and dandy, but it would avail you nothing if the Mass did not offer the perfect and infinite sacrifice to the Father for our transgressions.
Dear Anonymous at 1:11 am,
DeleteMy post mentions a lot about Jesus Christ. Why? Because I worship God. I do not worship the Mass. God has deepened our faith through the NCW that I now go to Christ. The Mass did not lead me to the Mass. The Mass led me to Christ.
Dear Anonymous,
DeleteTo come out of the water (i.e. resurrection), we first must go into it (i.e. death).
Dear Diana, I think there is truth in what Anonymous and Timothy are saying. The sacrificial aspect of the Eucharistic celebration should be kept in mind because that is exactly what saves us as sinners! Jesus Christ suffered and died on the cross to redeem our sins. Therefore God raised Him from the death.
DeleteWho would celebrate with and serve up unleavened bread and bitter herb on a banquet? On a banquet you want tasty bread and sweet wine served. But the unleavened bread at out Eucharist is a remembrance of the bitter suffering of our Lord for our sins. When we eat his body, we also taste this bitterness in the unleavened bread.
Jesus conquered death by his resurrection. Demonstrated to us that we should not fear death. Would we still die to this world? Does death still have power over this world? Yes, of course! But Jesus tells us we should not have fear. We'll be resurrected into another world, into a heavenly Jerusalem. The sting of death is still strong, but in this world only, not in the other.
We as His church are the body of Christ. We are the proof that He is risen! That is why we celebrate the resurrection. How do we know that we are His body? Because He died for all human beings even when we were still sinners. He redeemed our sins and purified us by his innocent suffering and death.
God himself suffered for every human being even though He was innocent and died on the cross for our sins. God participated in the suffering of the world so that we may see suffering as redemptive power. This is what makes us His church! Can we ignore this magnificent sacrificial aspect of our Eucharistic celebration? Never! We participate in His suffering and death with our full heart by consuming His body made of bitter, unsweetened, unleavened bread. We celebrate His glorious resurrection in the same spirit.
Yes, we are the children of the living God. We are not the children of death. God so loved the world that he gave His one and only Son to die on the cross for our sins, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but will have eternal life in Him.
Zoltan, I don't think Diana was ignoring the sacrifice of the Mass.
DeleteYes indeed, Diana did not do that. I wanted to emphasize that there is no ignoring of the sacrificial aspect of the Eucharistic celebration in the communities. Diana, talked about both sacrifice and celebration as well, just as we all talk about both things at our community masses. Thanks for pointing this out.
DeleteSeems to some theologians that we are in the already but not yet tension of salvation, Diana. What sayest thou?
ReplyDeleteDear Diana,
ReplyDeleteScripturally, we are redeemed through His death. It is an atonement. We have confidence or faith in the effectiveness of this atonement when we acknowledge the resurrection of the One who could not be contained by death.
As for joy coupled on the occasion of sacrifice, I agree. Saints experience joy at their own sacrificing, losing life in order to gain life, taking up their own cross in order to be crucified with Christ. Were not the disciples joyful at being persecuted for Christ's sake?
Dear Timothy,
DeleteThe Apostles went to their deaths singing with joy. They had no fear of death. Death was conquered so that man can live in Christ and with Christ.
Meaning of celebrate:
ReplyDeleteperform (a religious ceremony) publicly and duly, in particular officiate at (the Eucharist).
"he celebrated holy communion"
--------------------
We "celebrate" the SACRIFICE of the Mass - We "officiate; perform (a religious ceremony)" for the Sacrifice of the Mass - for the Eucharist.
Dear Anonymous at 8:24 am,
DeleteThe word "Eucharist" means thanksgiving. There is a much deeper meaning to the Mass. Christ instituted the Mass for the purpose of being one with Him (communion) and to be closer to Him so that we become a new creation in Jesus Christ. Christ took on our humanity so that He could be one with us. He instituted the Eucharist so that we would share in His divinity and be one with Him. Through the Eucharist, the Blood of Christ flows in our veins, and His flesh becomes one with our flesh. This is why we celebrate.
No, this is not quite right. Christ instituted the mass to perpetuate the sacrifice of calvary, which is the only acceptable sacrifice in atonement for the sins of mankind. His desire to mingle his substance with ours and to take us into himself is accomplished through that same sacrifice.
DeleteThe misunderstanding of what the mass is, is the main reason we reject the NCW and is the origin of most of the NCW errors.
Dear Anonymous at 12:41 pm,
DeleteRead the Gospel of John. Christ said that whoever eats my body and drinks my blood will have eternal life. Also, after He and the Apostles ate the Passover Meal, Christ went into the Garden of Gethsamane and prayed to God His Father. Do you know what His prayer was? He prayed that they become one with Him just as He is one with the Father. It is all there in the Gospel of John.
In Mass, those who have mortal sin cannot receive holy communion until they go to confession. In the Mass, couples who are living together outside of marriage cannot receive Holy communion until they marry. The Mass is both a sacrifice and a banquet. It is a sacrifice in atonement for our sins, but it is also like a marriage banquet that unites us with Christ. We become one with Christ in the Holy Eucharist when we eat His Body and drink His Blood. It is through the Eucharist that we share in Christ's divinity so that like Him, we can have eternal life. Whoever eats my Body and drinks my Blood will have eternal life.
The trouble is that the NCW do not treat the mass as a sacrifice at all, but only as a banquet. Hence the table not the altar. Hence the sitting to consume like an ordinary meal. And as is demonstrated by the comments above.
DeleteIn the catechesis Kiko actually speajs against the mass as a sacrifice, teaching that there is no altar in Christianity, for example.
From this error the NCW is prone to more and more errors. If only people such as yourself could recognize this and speak against it. But instead you are incapable of seeing that Kiko might just be wrong about it.
Diana have you read page 19 PDN today?
ReplyDeleteWill you have any comments on the Ad?
BYE.
Dear Anonymous at 2:30 pm,
DeleteFrom what I see.....you do not care for all victims, just SPECIFIC victims.
ReplyDeleteNeed not have got this far Diana. The Archbishop could have left. I was never concerned with NCW .it was only Apuron where my revenge is.
Dear Anonymous at 4:19 pm or Tim Rohr (if this is you),
DeleteAre you really willing to risk your soul for revenge?
Going back to the issue of the Mass, where all brothers and sisters in Christ are supposed to be in communion with one another.....
ReplyDeleteThe early days of the NCW Mass needed correction. Your leader, although meaning well, did not realize the importance of Sacrifice; therefore, he removed all that denoted sacrifice in the Mass at that time - many of the prayers, the altar, etc. Yes, it is true that he put the prayers back after being corrected by the Pope, and it seems that many do believe that the Mass is a Sacrifice now; however, there are elements of their Mass that they are not willing to give up. One of them is the no-kneeling directive which contradicts kneeling before Our God in humble adoration when He becomes truly present during Consecration. We also can/should kneel in profound thanksgiving and adoration as we receive Our God, Almighty Creator and Redeemer. We can/should also kneel after Communion - again in humble thanksgiving. The Church gives us the freedom to sit or stand when our bodies no longer are able to do so.
This is the 100th anniversary of the apparitions at Fatima. The Angel appeared first 100 years ago to the three shepherd children. In his first appearance the angel knelt and bowed very low and taught them the prayer " My God, I believe, I adore, I hope and I love Thee. I ask pardon for all those who do not believe in Thee, do not adore Thee, do not hope, and do not love Thee. The third time the Angel appeared, he brought with him the Eucharist. He left the Chalice and the Host suspended mid-air and PROSTRATES HIMSELF IN ADORATION BEFORE OUR GOD. THE THREE SHEPHERD CHILDREN DID THE SAME. The Angel demonstrates the position of adoration which is mentioned in the Bible. He teaches them another prayer " Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I adore Thee profoundly and I offer Three the Most Precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of the same Son Jesus Christ present in the Tabernacles of the World, in reparation for all the sacrileges, outrages and indifferences by which He Himself is offended. And by the infinite merits of His Most Sacred Heart and through the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg of Thee the conversion of poor sinners."
The Angel then rises and gives Communion to the three kneeling children. He prostrates himself again and repeats the "Most Holy Trinity" prayer again 3X.
The three children remained on the ground for a long while repeating over and over the prayer. (The Roman Rite asks us to kneel.)
Mary appears the following year - in 1917 to the three.
Many are expecting something BIG to happen on the anniversary of the apparitions at Fatima.
I don't believe Kiko was aware of this. If he had been, he would never have designed a Mass that ignores this profound adoration to our Lord God.
Let your people know about Fatima - Saint John Paul II said Fatima is still for today.
Dear Anonymous at 10:41 pm,
DeleteAnd what do you have to say about the Eastern Catholics who do not kneel in their Mass? And what about people who cannot kneel due to a disability or old age? Worship and reverence comes from the heart of man. After all, even a Buddhist kneels to the statue of Buddha, but Buddhists do not worship Buddha. They only kneel in respect and honor to him, but not out of worship.
I know of those who belong to the Eastern Catholic Church and they prostrate themselves at Mass. Granted, the churches are all different, but they do show profound respect for every fragment of Jesus by not allowing Communion in the hand.
DeleteIn response to your " And what about people who cannot kneel due to a disability or old age? " I did say " The Church gives us the freedom to sit or stand when our bodies no longer are able to do so."
Your reference of kneeling before Buddha???? I don't see anything in the Bible about kneeling before Buddha, but there are many references in the Bible of those kneeling or prostrate in adoration before our Lord.
Dear Diana,
ReplyDeleteCan you explain why an Angel from Heaven would prostrate himself before our Eucharistic Lord?
And why three (ignorant?) shepherd children would do the same?
Dear Anonymous at 4:11 pm,
DeleteWorship is found in the heart. Buddhists also prostrate themselves before a statue of Buddha, but they do not worship Buddha.