At any rate, the photos below were copied and pasted from KUAM. KUAM also reported that there were DOZENS of protesters outside. The jungle claimed that they numbered in the hundreds, but KUAM only mentioned them as "Dozens." Judging from the photos of the protesters, I assume that there were only about 20-30 of them.
Doesn't look like the thousand people you said were there. I still see empty pews.
ReplyDeleteAnon 10PM including you guys. LOL
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:00 pm,
DeleteIf you had read my previous post, I never said that thousands attended. I said that the NCW on Guam has approximately 1,200 people. The few empty pews were all in the back. The pews were being filled up starting from the front rows that people had to find seats toward the back. Furthermore, there were more people celebrating the Mass than protesters.
Hey Anon. 10:00, jungle blog says 100 people attended protest. I only counted 2 dozens. LOL!!!!
Delete@10:22
DeleteYour assumption??
Dear Anonymous at 4:19 am,
DeleteIt was at the beginning of the year convivience that I heard Father Pius said that there is about 1200 brothers in the Way. The Responsibles and co-Responsibles together number about 300.
What struck me the most was the participation during the Mass. Everyone in the congregation were singing. The choir were all together on one side, but everyone sang and knew the songs by heart. Except for the choir, no one was looking at any songbooks.
ReplyDeleteDiana, is that a new altar in the Cathedral Basilica? Beautiful flowers!
ReplyDeleteWow is that a new alter?! BEAUTIFUL!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:55 am,
DeleteActually, it is not a new altar. We simply improvise to make the altar bigger. If you go to the Cathedral today, you will see the same altar back in its original state.
There was no improvising by the NCW... The means to temporarily extend the altar existed well before the NCW arrived....
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:03 am,
DeleteThank you for the information. I was unaware that the altar was already extended before the NCW arrived.
ReplyDeleteWhy did you make altar larger?
Was it not large enough before?
Dear Anonymous at 9:25 am,
DeleteA larger table is needed to place the bread and wine needed to give the people after it is consecrated into the Body and Blood of Christ. The communities made the bread.
Why does community make bread? Why not buy it from the nuns
ReplyDeleteAnon 12:04,
DeleteThis is what our Catholic Church has to say,
321. By reason of the sign, it is required that the material for the Eucharistic Celebration truly have the appearance of food. Therefore, it is desirable that the Eucharistic Bread, even though unleavened and made in the traditional form, be fashioned in such a way that the Priest at Mass with the people is truly able to break it into parts and distribute these to at least some of the faithful. However, small hosts are not at all excluded when the large number of those receiving Holy Communion or other pastoral reasons call for them. Moreover, the gesture of the fraction or breaking of bread, which was quite simply the term by which the Eucharist was known in apostolic times, will bring out more clearly the force and importance of the sign of the unity of all in the one bread, and of the sign of charity by the fact that the one bread is distributed among the brothers and sisters.
320. The bread for celebrating the Eucharist must be made only from wheat, must be recently made, and, according to the ancient tradition of the Latin Church, must be unleavened.
Do you think anyone in the parish is willing to bake bread according to the requirements, enough to be used for all the weekend Masses?
Well, in the NCW, following all the specific rules concerning the making of bread for consecration, someone in each community makes the bread for the eucharistic celebration on Saturday night. Imagine the Mass that was held with the cardinal, do you think we simply called up a 1-800 number and ordered a few hundred wafers. Nope, people actually woke up and prayed the Psalms and then began preparing the bread for celebration.
In fact, so much attention is given to the celebration of the eucharist that in preparation for it a group meets mid-week to gather and prepare the readings and admonitions. There are those who prepare the space for the celebration, making sure that the room is cleaned and suitable, there are those who prepare the flowers and the linens to be used to cover the altar, there are the cantors who prepare the songs. All of this happens week after week.
Seems complicated compared to the average person who just wakes up, dresses and shows up to the celebration.
Then after the celebration, there is a group is takes care to clean up again.
I guess I agree with those who say we are CRAZY. Who in their right mind would be willing to do all of this time and time again?
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
"I guess I agree with those who say we are CRAZY. Who in their right mind would be willing to do all of this time and time again?"
DeletePeople who are brainwashed.
Of course, there are many non-NCW people who do similar preparations in the parish, without the salivating prasioe you give the NCW.
And, the bread is prepared according to Kiko, the flowers (which are not allowed on the "mensa") are according to Kiko, the songs are Kiko's, and the "space for celebration" is almost never a sacred space, because Kiko tells you there is no such thing in Christianity.
Its not that it appears "complicated" - but rather, that it appears to be purely in service to the ego of Kiko.
As your CCC quote say quite clearly, the hosts are perfectly appropriate for use in any Mass, so when you say "Do you think anyone in the parish is willing to bake bread according to the requirements", it is not just wrong, but again a demonstration of your holier-than-thou arrogance - typical of a diehard NCW.
And this from a priest!
Anon 12:01am,
DeleteYour accusation of arrogance is instead ignorance.
GIRM 321 says that the eucharistic bread should resemble ACTUAL FOOD. Read it again. So if you believe that paper thin wafers resemble actual bread then I guess Im wrong.
GIRM 320 says that only wheat should be used. Read it again because Kiko did not invent the recipe.
So honestly, Do you think anyone who is not already doing other multiple ministries is willing to prepare the bread for all the masses in your parish?
Oh and Lets be real, I can say the same in regards to your comment, AND THIS FROM A PRIEST!? reveal yourself Father/Padre/Pale, I already know who you are.
In a couple comments ago I said that it will be my last time to make it clear that I am not Father Adrian. Guess again!
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
Dear Joker, if you claim that GIRM 321 prohibits the use of "paper thin wafers" then you are accusing virtually every pope, bishop and priest for at least the last few hundred years.
DeleteSo, yes, you are wrong. The hosts do have the appearance of food - even if its not Kiko's idea of what a round piece of decorated bread should look like. The use of "paper thin wafers" is preferable to leaving pieces of Our Lord all over the floor (I have witnessed this personally at NCW "mass").
Where do you get the idea that these "paper thin wafers" are not made from wheat, if that is what your second point is implying? I have heard the NCW emphasize the "unleavened" aspect of their bread many times, as if they believe that the standard wafers are not unleavened or not made of wheat. Please educate yourself.
My parish uses wafers (bread) made by the local Carmelite nuns, so yes there is someone who "is willing to prepare the bread for all the masses in your parish".
I am comfortable telling you that I am not a priest, but if I were, it would be fine because I am not contradicting or ignoring the teaching of the Church, as you do in virtually every post you make.
And did I accuse you of being Fr Adrian? No.
I accused you of being a priest, which you have demonstrated in your language. Deny it if you will, we have become accustomed to lies from the NCW, even from their clergy, which is disgusting.
Anon 2:20pm;
DeleteSorry so late in reply but it is very important that I point out your errors in reading and in fact misreading my statements.
1. When I shared GIRM 321 I did not say that using "thin wafers" is prohibited. I instead emphasized that the bread should resemble ACTUAL FOOD.
-in your response you took it upon yourself to place words in my mouth.
-you go on to state that the hosts do have the appearance of food. I encourage you to place the two(bread baked according to the regulations to resemble actual food and the thin hosts) side by side, which one looks like real food?
2. I never said that the paper thin wafers are not made of wheat or unleavened. I encourage you to actually study the way the hosts are made for mass production. You will find that it is actually very little wheat flour and lots of water. Whereas the bread made to resemble actual food(used by the NCW) is made with mostly wheat flour and minimal water. Please educate yourself. You go on to say that you have witnessed an NCW Mass so Id like to remind you that in the NCW Mass, after consuming the body of Christ, the brothers are sure to inspect their palms for any particles of the consecrated bread. Now lets take a look at the Sunday Mass, I usually see a long line to receive and once they have placed the host in their mouth, they then make the sign of the cross and walk off. It is almost impossible to ever see anyone take a second look at their palm for any particles. Lets be real and honest here!
3. You also shared that your parish chooses to order their hosts from the carmelites and you consider this as "someone willing to prepare the bread for all the parish masses". But I ask you again and more clearly, is someone willing to prepare(take time out of their day to bake) the bread for all the parish masses, free of charge?
You have demonstrated time and time again how you really do fit in with all those haters on the other blog. I say something and you take it and twist it and define it according to your own dense sense of comprehension. Do you feel the frustration behind my writing? then good! because I am. I am very comfortable telling you this.
As far as teachings of the church, I beg of you to stop thinking that whatever Rorh says, is teachings of the church. Let me remind you that his actions, words and mentality is not of this church, It is not christian in any sense possible. I invite you on the contrary to read the Catechism, the GIRM and many of the Popes(present and past) encyclicals and letters. These things will help you understand alot of what I am posting. I believe you have good intentions but you have just been mislead to think that the NCW is not Catholic.
Lastly, If I remind you of a priest because of my language then I guess you have the same opinion towards all priests. Sorry lai but I am just a brother who tries every bit I can to familiarize myself with the teachings and writings of the church and its many holy men and women.
If it comes to it, I will reveal myself. When I first started posting I decided to use the name "jokers wild" because everyone knows that the joker card is wild and can change the game around. If you once thought you are the leading hand, you must of forgot about the joker possibilities. Like I warned rorh awhile ago, I know of something that can be very detrimental towards the line that they have drawn. Who you once thought was good and holy might not be the same tomorrow. And guess what, there are a couple other key players, lest I say, commentators, who also know of this incident. Sadly there are also the innocents, who I warned rorh that I do not want to drag back into this. So as he says, The End is Near!
You see the weird thing is that they continue to insult "Diana" and her blog but almost everything gets dragged over there anyways, I can post this here today and in a few hours, it will be on jw. anyways, that their standard operating procedure. Thats exactly how they get their intel, through gossip and a cup of coffee.
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
I'm glad the celebration was a success. We should hold our Saturday night's there from now on.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 5:45 pm,
DeleteThe place is not the ideal place for a small community celebration. The place is too big and the pews are are more of an obstruction for the priest during Holy Communion.
Does the cathedral charge you for the use of the church, the same way they charge families when they have a death in the family????? I bet they do not....
DeleteDear CB parish,
DeleteYou lost the bet. Everyone put in money in the collection basket as they exited the cathedral. We do not do collections during the celebration. It is done after the celebration. At the end of the Mass, Father Pius asked the assembly to put in donations to pay for the use of the cathedral. Some of the brothers stood by all the doors with baskets in their hands, and the assembly dropped their donations into the basket as they exited the doors.
How much money did pius collect? Are you sure he gavevmoney to cathedral?
DeleteWhere did pius put the collection after the mass? Where is our money? I been asking three years. Where is my money? Where is the Money given Archbishop. Where is my money ? Where has my money gone?
Dear Anonymous at 2:28 pm,
DeleteThe money is going to the Archdiocese to pay for the use of the Cathedral. After all, the power and air-con was on during our celebration.
Not the collection...I am talking about the FEE..just ask Coreen for who much is charged..she can let you know if you want to have a mass intention in honor of a death in the family it will cost you thousands...and even at the those masses, the collection is still taken by the Cathedral...you lost the bet....since you already answered the question...so since the Cathedral post the collections for all the masses...we will all know how much was collected....
DeleteDear Anonymous at 5:10 pm,
DeleteWe were not holding a funeral; therefore, the fee does not apply. We had our regular 7:30 pm Mass. The 7:30 pm Mass is treated as one with the rest of the parish Mass.
Fee are charged for all masses with special intentions. Weddings and baccalaureate for catholic or public schools, reunion, ETC...I guess your English is poor that you don't really understand examples....and the cathedral will also do the collection. So even on regular masses (weekend or weekday) if it is Special there is a FEE...and collection...doesn't matter if the mass was already planned....
DeleteCB Parish. Since when does a church charge itself to celebrate a mass?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 6:15 pm,
DeleteThe 7:30 Mass is not a special intention Mass. It is a regular Mass and only called "special" because of the guests who attended.
The jungle is writing silliness after silliness when they discuss our Eucharistic celebration. Have these people ever received a decent, at least high school level Catholic education? I seriously doubt!
ReplyDeleteI propose the following formula when we talk to them: Sure, brother, it is certainly interesting what you say. Perhaps you are right, perhaps you are wrong. It is a 50-50% chance.
How do you think they would respond? I guess this would blow up their mind. "What 50-50% chance?? What an insult..." They must be 100% right in everything, all the time! Lol. Talk about vanity, hubris, pride and haughtiness.
"It is a 50-50% chance"
DeleteI suppose you mean its either right or wrong? Well, because the Church is good enough to provide clear instructions on the Mass (the same instructions you ignore), we can be confident 100% about what is right and wrong.
What is written by the Church is clear black and white. But your mind, my brother, is not black and white. It is grey matter, a mixture of black and white that you cannot separate from each other.
DeleteWhat you say is certainly interesting. But we don't ignore instructions. we follow them strictly, letter by letter. Even more, we follow the spirit of what is written down. If you say otherwise, then you are a liar and the truth is not in you.
Therefore you might be right or you might be wrong, my brother. It is a 50-50% chance and you cannot do anything about it.
DeleteList of all these hard core Jw folk.Active JW commenters amount to around 15 individuals. Protestors different group around 20 including a kid who keeps springing up. About 35 complaining men women priests.
Jw loud mob making noise.
DeleteThey do not represent catholic Guam.
They do not represent our Love for archbishop tony.
Joker, now that you explain this tedious process of making bread and preparing the table with flowers, I understand why the the ncw is such a magnificent organization with members who sacrifice so much of their time.
ReplyDeleteYes anon 10:56.... too keep us busy all for brothers who mite be in a crisis and comes to receive a word and to see the beauty the Lord has for them.... to change thier spirit of crisis to joy!!!
ReplyDelete