Jesus Christ established a Church. Christ said, "You are Peter and upon this rock, I will build my Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18). It was on the Apostle Peter that Christ built His Church. Rome is where the seat of the Apostle Peter is and there sits the Pope, the Vicar of Christ. History has shown that we have had bad popes in the past that do not deserve to sit in the chair of Peter. Nevertheless, Christ has always been the one steering His Church on where she should go regardless of how sinful a pope is. Evil can never prevail or take His Church for Christ is the Head and is in charge. Pope Alexander VI was one of the worst pope in Church history. He fathered several children by different mistresses. (See the weblink here.) Despite that the Catholic Church had this immoral pope, that did not change the doctrines of the Church. The teachings of the Church remain intact to this day. Popes can make mistakes and be justly reprimanded as Paul did to Peter (Galatians 2:11), and they are sinful human beings like the rest of us, as Peter himself admitted (Luke 5:8).
The jungle is now criticizing Pope Francis, which is not new Other bloggers have also criticized him. For example, the Rorate Caeli blogger have been known to criticize him. Tim Rohr is not the only Traditionalist who has criticized Pope Francis. Although he and other Traditionalists have a right to their own opinions, it is important that one does not give in to apocalytic warnings or support schism. Unfortunately, the jungle is supporting schism. According to Tim Rohr:
If one is not to turn to Rome, who then is one supposed to turn to??? Are people supposed to place their trust in Tim Rohr to withhold obedience and support for the Church simply because they do not like the Bishop or the Pope? Are people supposed to place their trust on a man who says not to turn to Rome? We know for certain that anyone who tells us not to turn to Jesus Christ is a false prophet. But what about the person who says not to turn to Rome, the seat of the Apostle Peter?Again, my admonition: DO NOT TURN TO ROME.
"But what about the person who says not to turn to Rome......the only and true Church Christ built?"
ReplyDeleteDiana, that one is easy! This person must be a cuckoo in the nest, faking allegiance to Pope Francis while trying to harm him and all Catholics on Guam. He must be a two-faced person unable to tell the truth!
Ha ha, you're funny sometimes Diana. Tim Rohr is hardly promoting schism. As you have said, although the doctrine of the Church is assured, the Church is full of sinful people, right to the Pope himself. Unless its a matter of faith and morals (lets disregard Amoris for the moment) if you put all your trust in these sinful men, particularly those that have been bought by the NCW, you will not get very far. Instead, we should all take responsibility and hold our Churchmen to the highest standards, seeking to follow in good conscience the precepts of the faith.
ReplyDeleteNice try, but seems you've struck out with this one.
Dear Anonymous at 5:14 pm,
DeleteThose sinful men never said not to turn to Rome. Why? Because they were fully aware that Rome is where the chair of the Apostle Peter, where the Vicar of Christ (God's representative on earth) resides. To say not to turn to Rome is a call to schism.
You cannot disregard Amoris Laetitia! Simply cannot! It is the most basic issue right now about the leadership of Pope Francis. Those who cannot swallow Amoris Laetitia and the Catholic teaching on mercy are exactly the same folks who create scandal after scandal on Guam! This is a plot in service of the secular atheists to dethrone and reduce the authority of the elected Pope of the Catholic Church!
DeleteDear Anon at 7.31, do you believe that the Church can change its teaching on marriage as per the literal reading of part 8 of Amoris Laetitia? There is a movement in the Church, which appears to include the Pope, that would alter the moral teaching of the Church regarding communion for the so-called "re-married". Please put you cards on the table and let us know where you stand on this issue?
DeleteDear anon at 11:11 pm, you ask me. I stand with Pope Francis. He is my Pope. I stand with Jesus! Mercy is the message of Christ. "Today you will be with me in Paradise" he tells to the repentant criminal. He is saying to the adulterous woman "go and sin no more". Mercy is eternal. Our Lord Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow!
DeleteWhat changes is our understanding of the eternal truth of Christ. Vatican 2 called for the discovery of a deeper meaning behind the surface. Please, do not be superficial, look at the substance not the accidental. Amoris Laetitia is a very important document of the papacy of Pope Francis that is calling for mercy. It is in the spirit of Vatican 2, our guidance for the 21st century. We go forward in time and no backward. Do you have mercy in you, my friend?
DeleteThe problem is secularism and not your fellow Catholic. It is like traveling in a big balloon over the desert. It you don't fly high on the path of God, then you go down the desert of secularism ruling this world. Do you belong to God or to the secular world?
DeleteThe big balloon is the church, the traveler is the believer. Faith keeps you flying high following the eternal teaching of Jesus Christ. But the ruler of this world is out there to catch you. He tries to grab you and bring down to a world of no mercy. Only a merciful heart can keep you close to Jesus.
The Lord Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. What you know about his eternal truth is not the same. The church is in historical time. History is the story of salvation for humankind. You'll be saved if you go deeper in your understanding of the divine truth of mercy. If you get stuck frozen in time, then time will pass leaving you behind. Our need and hunger for divine mercy is stated in unambiguous terms on the pages of Amoris Laetitia.
Flying high?
DeleteThe description you give of faith sounds delusional. It sounds like an escape from reality with your head in the clouds, ignoring the fact that your feet are on the ground...ignoring the reality around you...that your relationship with God is one dimensional.
You also say that you will be saved if you understand divine truth? To know fully?
I'm ignorant and maybe I shouldn't be here, but tell me...didn't Adam and Eve experience death precisely because of KNOWLEDGE.
But since knowledge will save according to you, how much knowledge do I need? Until when is it enough that I can stand and claim that I am saved, that my family is saved, that my friends are saved, that the world is saved?
Deeper? What is deep? How deep is deep?
I'm ignorant, please enlighten me? Or do you think I cannot be saved because I do not have the capacity to obtain saving knowledge?
Dear Anonymous at 7:09 pm,
DeleteHaving a deeper faith is understanding much more. For example, you stated: "Adam and Eve experience death precisely because of KNOWLEDGE."
Adam and Eve experienced death because of disobedience. The wages of sin is death. Disobedience is the sin. There is nothing sinful about knowledge.
Dear anon at 7:09 pm, I was talking about the knowledge of the works of mercy. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the word mercy. The source of divine mercy is the love of Christ. Whenever you pray, you have a chance to learn more about the mercy flowing from God. The Catholic dictionary is teaching us:
Delete"Catholic Dictionary: Term MERCY Definition
The disposition to be kind and forgiving. Founded on compassion, mercy differs from compassion or the feeling of sympathy in putting this feeling into practice with a readiness to assist. It is therefore the ready willingness to help anyone in need, especially in need of pardon or reconciliation."
https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=34849
I don't pray because God isn't in me.
DeleteThe problem isn't whether Tim Rohr is telling people not to turn to Rome. Anyone can be Tim Rohr! Please tell everyone what the REAL problem is because what Tim is telling people isn't the REAL problem at hand. It's so much more than that.
ReplyDeleteProbably Tim is foreseeing that Rome will be able to see through all the machinations and lies that Tim organized against Apuron.... and will conclude that Apuron has been the victim of organized slander and that he is innocent..... Tim is afraid.
DeleteRohr is scared his paper card empire will collapse when the wind starts to blow. He only wants to save face by accusing Pope Francis. He prefers Pope Francis to go down rather than Rohr's lies exposed. What a moronic attitude! He plays from the same playbook given to him by the enemies of the Catholic Mother Church. These deceivers create the same fake stories of cover-ups that have never happened. This is morally corrupt and sinful behavior.
DeleteThe jungle is a closet of secret pope haters who keep coming out to show their true faces. Scary people.
DeleteI'd rather turn to Jesus than to a fallible man in Rome.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:29 pm,
DeleteBy your comment, I assume you must be a non-Catholic. The ministry of Christ did not end when he died and rose to Heaven. His ministry continued on in His Apostles.....through men.
Tim wants to pick his own pope. just like he wants to pick his own Bishop, go picket Tim rohr, he's trying to take your your Church Away!! That no way for him to send his 11 kids to Heaven. so stop knocking the WAY
DeleteWhat happened to my comment about me being Catholic? How come you didn't post it?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:47 am,
DeleteIf you are Catholic, you would also be in communion with the Pope.
If Pope Alexander VI mistresses told him to stop would they automatically become excommunicated for not being in communion with him? Are they Catholic if they said "no"? I would assume they are not Catholic anymore if I follow your line of thinking.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:26 am,
DeleteIn the first place, the sin of Pope Alexander separated himself from God and His Church. We are Catholic through our baptism. And even if excommunicated, they can still return through repentance.
DeleteDear Anon @ 10:29pm
Saying I would rather turn to jesus rather than a fallible man is like saying I'd rather listen to myself as a more subjective fallible human being than another man who is fallible but has a more objective view. It is just another way of saying I will invent my own God. My own personal Jesus.
I've read that Pope Francis was asked by a Lutheran woman married to a Catholic man if she could receive the Eucharist when she attends Mass with him. He told her to follow her individual conscience about receiving the Eucharist with her husband. He didn't tell her that according to Church rules only baptized Catholics are allowed to receive the Eucharist. He left it up to her!!
ReplyDeleteThere are signs that Pope Francis will allow those who are divorced & remarried to receive the Eucharist. And he has been quoted as saying people who are cohabiting have more valid marriages than those who receive the Sacrament of Matrimony.
I'm not looking to Pope Francis to uphold the teachings of the Catholic Church. There have been bad popes in the history of the Church and I'm starting to wonder if we have another bad one for the history books.
Sour grape for the fox? You'll never get Pope Francis because he is the Pope of our time.
DeleteYou spread hearsay, gossip and superstition following your master Timothy Rohr. You have no quoting or evidence whatsoever. It is intellectually very dishonest. You should be ashamed!
Those who dismiss the Pope as not not in their favor want to have a cafeteria pope assembled from panels who is not a real person with authority.
Anon @ 2:16 PM
DeleteAs you requested, here are some of the things I've read:
Pope Francis & Lutheran woman who wanted to receive the Eucharist: http://www.irishcatholic.ie/article/lutherans-decide-if-they-can-receive-communion-pope-francis-suggests
Pope Francis on Eucharist for divorced & remarried couple: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-no-other-interpretation-of-amoris-laetitia-than-allowing-communion-for
Pope Francis on cohabiting couples:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ewtn-panel-popes-remarks-on-marriage-cohabitation-were-reckless-depart-from
As you can see I'm providing the sources for my 12:40 PM comment but I'm not sure that Diana will approve my response to you. I hope she does.
PS-Timothy Rohr is not my "master"
You are not telling the truth, just like your puppet master Rohr! I could not find the quote "people who are cohabiting have more valid marriages than those who receive the Sacrament of Matrimony." this is untrue! Pope Francis had never said that! You wicked man. Why do you falsify the statement of my Pope?
DeleteDiana you should read the Guamanian Timmy is attacking the co-adjutor archbishop for what he put on the article and he also us in the way
ReplyDeleteWhat?? This is getting weird. CCOG keeps telling people not to give at collection! They will protest against Archbishop Byrnes for the next 17 years! Yes! The marching order was given at Junglewatch. Marching for what? Are these people out of their minds?!
ReplyDelete**************
Robert KlitzkieJanuary 7, 2017 at 12:10 PM
Someone needs to set AB Byrnes straight.
AnonymousJanuary 7, 2017 at 3:29 PM
The Catholic faithful who support our local church cannot & will not give the money necessary to continue the operation of the NEO Seminary.
PICKET RESUMES, the battle to remove and defrock Apuron resumes Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 9:00 AM. Come with lots of steam to start the New Year. See you then. Lou Klitzkie, LFM
Andrew CamachoJanuary 7, 2017 at 2:16 PM
Abp Byrnes has 17 years until the age of retirement. 17 years and many miles to march.
neo continues to be a dividing factor in the local church. Wherever it opetates people end up dividing and fighting. Movement creates division builds division. neo is the very cause of division in Guam today. neo refuse to work with those outside neo movement. This creates tensions ill feeling in the church.
ReplyDeleteAnon, 9:21 am, you accuse us with your own doing! It is you who breath division, controversy and scandal in the media. It is you who want to "sue the pants off" the diocese for here and now. It is you who act against your Mother Church and want to "dry it up" financially following the instruction of you foreign bosses.
DeleteIt is CCOG that accuses everyone they dislike with bad things. CCOG is pushing sexual abuse crimes with dubious credibility beyond limits. It is JW that wants to cripple the local church and steal decision making from the hands of Archbishop Byrnes. It is not about Apuron anymore. Not by light years! It has always been about bringing down the Catholic faith even at its last bastion on American territory, Guam!
Division is coming from you! You breath accusations and go after your sisters and brothers in Christ. It is not enough for you to attack Archbishops Apruron, Hon and Byrnes. Now it is Pope Francis who is in the crosshair of your wicked scheming and attacks. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
It is Cardinal Burke, one of the four "Dubia" cardinals who want to hold Pope Francis accountable for the encyclical letter Laetitia Amoris, the teaching on mercy! He is acting like a furious genie of schism flying all around spewing denial and resistance to the teaching of the church. A true enemy inside Vatican! Are you guys working for Cardinal Burke? Do you want to import his half baken ways of fear mongering and coercion to Guam? You'll fail because we are here to protect the freedom and integrity of our faith. You have to count with us!
JW wrote:
AnonymousJanuary 11, 2017 at 10:37 PM
answer stop funding catholic parishes schools instituations.