By now, all the NCW communities in Guam should have already met with their catechists. A meeting was held to clarify many things that are going on in our Catholic Church today. The truth regarding the RM Seminary and many other things has been disclosed to us. We already know that the RM Seminary is accredited by the Lateran University and that this accreditation has been renewed. We already know that not every professor can simply teach at the seminary. Before teaching there, they must first be approved by the Lateran University in Rome. So, RMS in Guam gets the top teaching professors approved by the Lateran University in Rome. We already know that two other RM Seminaries in other countries have followed Guam's lead in getting themselves affiliated with the Lateran University and accredited by them. We also know that all the documents stated that the INTENT of purchasing the property was to house a Redemptoris Mater Seminary. There are NO documents saying that the intent was to house a Redemptoris Mater Seminary AND use the land for other purposes. The INTENT in all the documents was clearly spelled out and located in the first few paragraphs of the documents. We also know that the benefactor who gave the 2 million dollars did so with the INTENT to establish a seminary. No donor is going to give 2 million dollars without knowing what the 2 million dollars is going to be used for. Also, the Board of Directors have all the documents showing that the RMS property belongs to the Archdiocese of Agana.
Furthermore, the catechists requests that you continue to do your prayers. Please do what your catechists asks and and recommends.
More than ever I believe that Archbishop Apuron is innocent. The facts stated cannot be refuted or at least let the others try. My prayers are with the Archbishop and all those sorting out the unfortunate financial mess the Archdiocese is in. Money is clearly the root of all evil!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:01PM--
DeleteHave you seen the documents? That's all I ask....request to see the documents for yourself and then come back and tell us. Please.
ANON 8:50. I am confident that these docs will be presented in a court of law in due time and what I mean by this is in God's time - not mine and definitely not yours. I have read both the accusations of the Jungle and the irrefutable facts in Diana's blog . My opinion ? I believe Diana. BTW I would be careful these days with fund-raisers . CCOG is fundraising to pay their legal fees.
DeleteWhy not just show all the documentations pertaining to the RMS. I am sure all the debates or disagreements will seize.
ReplyDeleteDear SEE445,
DeleteActually, the best thing to do is to resolve it in court. That way, the jungle will be unable to twist the truth around. The civil court will be the one to resolve the issue once and for all. And when you lose in court, then you can go ahead and throw a temper tantrum at us for not showing you the documents in the first place. It is not our fault that you chose to reject the truth.
Diana,
DeleteYou refuse to see that by publishing the documents, you stand to bring other Catholics who are in the middle to not be against you. Never mind those in CCOG or the Laity. What about the many of us who don't want to get involved in the battle?
Dear Anonymous at 8:44 am,
DeleteThe ownership of the property has been debated for three years already. The only way to stop the controversy is to settle it in court.
We already know that the RM Seminary is accredited by the Lateran University and that this accreditation has been renewed. - Please have them show you a copy of the current accreditation. The first one expired in 2012, and a conditional letter of affiliation was issued in 2014. Ask to see the letter showing the conditions and the subsequent letter from the Lateran showing that the conditions were fulfilled and full affiliation is now current. By the way, it is NOT the RM Seminary which is "accredited" by the Lateran. It is (supposedly) the Blessed Diego Institute.
ReplyDeleteWe already know that no professor can simply teach at the seminary. Before teaching there, they must first be approved by the Lateran University in Rome. So, RMS in Guam gets the top teaching professors approved by the Lateran University in Rome. - Can we see the list of the current permanent professors and for evidence of the approval from the Lateran.
We also know that all the documents stated that the INTENT of purchasing the property was to house a Redemptoris Mater Seminary. - Can we see the document.
The INTENT in all the documents was clearly spelled out and located in the first few paragraphs of the documents. - Can we see the document.
We also know that the benefactor who gave the 2 million dollars did so with the INTENT to establish a seminary. - Can we see the document.
Also, the Board of Directors have all the documents showing that the RMS property belongs to the Archdiocese of Agana. - Can we see the documents.
Dear Anonymous at 10:26 pm,
DeleteI got the information from those who are inside the seminary. The accreditation was renewed twice.
We already know that CCOG conducted a research without visiting the seminary, without speaking to any of the professors, and without reviewing any documents. I will believe those who work inside the seminary rather than those who did a sham research without visiting the seminary.
If CCOG still believes that the RMS property does not belong to the Archdiocese, all they have to do is take it to court. It will be resolved there once and for all.
Did you actually see the certificate? Yes, it was twice---but the second time was just a provisional one pending a few requirements. Did you see the updated one with a current date of expiration?
DeleteOur catechist is a member of the Board of Directors at RMS. I trust him over CCOG. We're not here to accommodate JW, CCOG, and LFM. These groups have tried to discredit the seminary and has called for it to shut down. We are now waiting for your lawsuit. I agree with Diana. It is best to settle it in court.
DeleteBut that's just it....it's not a matter of trusting one over the other. It's just a matter of seeing for yourself. I'm on a Board and we always provide documents to our members---it's just a matter of being transparent to everyone.
DeleteQuestions are being raised and it's become very public--not just between you and CCOG. Wouldn't you want to have the documents to end the doubt that is out there among the general public?
I'm not in the NCW, and I had doubts about which side God was on and was afraid that if I attended mass where members of CCOG and LFM attended or NCW attended one of them would lead me astray. That was stupid of me. Why? Because God is always present in His church.
DeleteI don't need proof of ownership or the qualification of the professors. Why? Because it all starts with leadership. I trust in the leadership of those who have established the seminary, that they would have done what is best for the men being formed there. Why? Because they have a direct influence over our spiritual life. If the leadership was in any way making decisions for other reasons, the creation of the RMS would be in vain. The spiritual direction of all those priests would be in vain. I trust God who loves us way more than any human being could ever love us to lead US and THEM through the individuals he places in our and their lives. As such, I trust the RMS seminarians, deacons, and priests. Why? Because I believe that He will not lead me astray even if there are bad leaders or priests that are "lacking", even though I think it's more that they need our prayers and support so that they too can grow in faith. Why? Because God never wants to lose any of us and even those priests who are lacking are still blessed by God. We should trust in God's blessing. May God bless ALL our priests and may we also be grateful for the priests that God chose for us. He CHOSE them FOR US and US FOR THEM.
Anonymous @ 10:33am, let us have a little bit of faith and trust in the people who have a direct hand in this issue. Please be patient.
God bless you.
I wish I could, anonymous @ 6:16pm. But i had more than a little bit of faith and trust in our leadership-- namely AB Apuron--and then i found out about his doings. (Yes, i believe its true because one is my own nephew!!)
DeletePriests, deacons, etc. are human and are just as susceptible to the temptations of the devil as any of us is. I believe God has warned us of this, and expects us to be wary of things we feel is not quite right. Diana herself has said she does not follow blindly. Asking for documentation is not too much to ask, is it?
Anonymous at 10:04pm: No, it's not too much to ask. But what is going to change for you when you get the confirmation you need? And why can't you make that change now?
DeleteAlso, I cannot know if you are telling the truth about your nephew and neither do I know what you are going through. Who am I to investigate? Who am I to condemn? I have no experience as an investigator and judgment is left to God.
What is wrong with patiently waiting, praying, and trusting in God? Why is that considered blindly following?
I agree with Diana. CCOG has been fundraising since last year so they can take RMS to court to get the property back to the Archdiocese. Instead, I see Bob Klitzkie trying to persuade the Archdiocese to take RMS to court. That is so ridiculous! The Archdiocese have never claimed that the property doesn't belong to them. CCOG has been making that claim all along. So, CCOG bring it to court. What's the hold up?
ReplyDeleteDid any of you ever wonder why Senator Ada no longer called an oversight hearing for Land Management after the AG announced her opinion regarding the so-called bogus certificate of titles? No oversight hearing from the senator, so what's JW's next move? They're trying to force Hon into retracting his statement that the property belongs to the Archdiocese "no doubt about it" and to retract the certificate of titles published in the Umatuna. Why do you think they are putting so much energy into doing that rather than taking it to court?
What are you hiding? NCW in US mainland is confused about this state of affairs with RMS Guam.
ReplyDeleteIn the name of TRUTH. Because if it is proven that indeed RMS GUam was been given to RMS/NCW it will be time to examine ALL existing RMS seminaries and its status all over the world
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 4:51 am,
DeleteProve it in court. It is time CCOG, Bog Klitzkie, and LFM bring it to court like they always say.
Diana, have you seen the documents?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 9:10 am,
DeleteYes, I have.
For goodness sakes, why didn't you just say so from the very beginning? All you implied was that 'you were told'! Can you at least tell us which documents you have seen and that they indeed are current? Someone once said "it's like pulling teeth" with you...now I understand.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:42 am,
DeleteHave CCOG take it to court, where it will finally be settled once and for all.
Bring this matter to court.
DeleteIt is only way to decide who is right.
For two years we been debating this issue to neglect of evangelization.
I am not in the Neocatechumenal Way. I have my reservations regarding your pratices but i leave that to the Holy See ssince, as Catholics we trust with our obdience to the Pope all mtters of spirituality. My concern is the disunity in our chrch. i dont agree with everythiin you say as I dont agree with the way in which the other blog is handling the situation, in fact i belive as do others, they might cause more harm than good. it makes one wonder where in the world do they get all their information, the answer came. There is, without mentioning names a certainn clergyman who is working very closey w the other blog. the monsenior influenced others to give information and the confidential documents and conversations. their is proof that arch anthony might e right in his accusations of financial mismangaement going all the way back to manila. laate nights, travels with young men, and even buying a car. this post of mine is not to judge but a post to show that if both blogs mention and blame particular groups (neo) and priest,, then please be fair and mention all. the latest allegations against the priest was a capuchin, why is not anyone questioning them and their formation and yet so quick to judge the rms seminarians? not fait right? so this upsets me, and for this, i am writing to you in hopes that you would expound on this issue. the other blog is damagingnot the church and id like this to be known. annonymous becuaue im an old timer from agana, who has seen and heard for so long.
ReplyDeletethe RMS isn't YOUR seminary. Your whole take it to court stuff is garbage. It's the archdiocesan seminary. That's why it the documents should be shown so we can end this. That fact that you sound like you are bunkering down for a siege shows all of us you are scared. There's nothing to fear but the truth. It's from God.
DeleteSpeaking of truth, I know perfectly well what's going to happen when the truth comes out, and so do you Diana. I don't believe for one second you've seen all those documents. Not one second. You are putting up a brave face which is good for those who follow you but it won't make any of this more true because you want it to be.
Dear Anonymous at 6:36 pm,
DeleteThe fact that you had to make a quitclaim deed for the Board of Directors to sign shows that it is YOU who is scared of going to court. The fact that you tried to pressure the Archdiocese to take RMS to court shows that it is YOU who are scared of taking it to court. The fact that Archbishop Hon stated with conviction that the property belongs to the Archdiocese of Agana "NO DOUBT ABOUT IT" makes you hesitant to bring it to court.
CCOG has been fundraising money to take the matter to court because they believe that the property does not belong to the Archdicoese. Therefore, this matter should be settled in court once and for all. It is time that CCOG take the matter to court and let the court decide once and for all.
Diana,
ReplyDeleteThese people who are against RMS and NCW should go and start another Seminary. They should go find a building and start a Capuchin, Jesuit, or whatever else is there Seminary, and stop hating on us Catholics who have found a path to God through the NCW.
CCOG, LFM, and Tim Rohr, please note that these sex allegations brought on by Denton, Roland, etc..., happened 40 plus years ago, NONE of those priests accused are RMS priests. So please remember that the next time someone says that RMS is a sham, and please also point out the priestly order which formed the priests accused of these child sex allegations.
Thanks.
Dumb Catholic from Inarajan
Anonymous @ 5:08pm, starting a seminary because people are angry and/or divided doesn't seem like the right thing to do.
Delete-A Catholic on Guam
What about Luis?
DeleteWhy start another seminary when the land and building occupied by RMS was paid for with non-Neo funds. Apuron tried to get them to revise history with his pre-written letter but was turned down because they never intended the donation to service the Neo, which didn't even exist at the time. They flat out told Apuron that they wouldn't lie for him.
Dear Anonymous at 1:57 am,
DeleteThese are the facts: 1). On Guam, Father a Luis was never charged with a sex crime. He was charged with custodial interference, and 2) He was cleared by Pope Francis.
As I said in my OP, the donor who gave the 2 million dollars would not give that amount of money without knowing what the money will be used for. The donor knows that the money will be used to purchase a seminary. Tim Rohr never published the letter of the donor. He only quoted a letter he says is from the donor. He also never published the letter of the Archbishop to the donor. He only quoted what he says was from the Archbishop.
Anon at 1:57 am-
DeleteThe reason for the loan from BOG was for the RMS. The RMS was already in operation in the building when the donor paid of the loan. That is a pretty good indication that the donor new who was in that building and why they were there.
So what I was saying is for the CCOG and others who don't want the RMS, to go find a building, get a loan, and start a seminary that is not an RMS and maybe a donor will come along pay their loan. Because they may not the RMS but Catholics like me and many others like me WANT IT.
Dumb Catholic from Inarajan
Facts:
DeleteThe donor already said that they couldn't sign Apuron's prewritten letter to himself stating that they intended the Yona property to be used for the NCW because that would be a lie.
The donor already said that they didn't know the NCW existed when they donated the funds.
A lie:
Apuron's contention that the donor intended the property to benefit the NCW.
Source:
The donor
That doesn't change the fact that Luis broke his vows less than two years after his ordination. If that is not an indicator of something wrong, the nothing is
ReplyDeleteDear Glaucon Jr.
DeleteHe did not break any of his vows. Let us stick with documented facts and not rumors. He was never charged with any sexual offenses. The parents of the girl are not pressing any charges because there was no violation. And he was cleared by Pope Francis.
We only wish Fr.Luis well in whatever he does wherever he ministers.Importance is for him to learn from his experiences as a young priest move on.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree. I think he may well be a fine priest and hope for that
DeleteGlaucon you still lurking around here? Did you not get what you want? That to destroy the church. March on to the pavement till your foot sole bleed. By the way, do you think you would assurance of salvation?
ReplyDeleteDear Anon at 3:49
ReplyDeleteIt's common knowledge now that the purpose of the loan from BOG was to purchase the property for the RM Seminary. THAT IS A FACT AND THE PROOF IS IN THE LOAN APPLICATION.
So donors intention, as was published as part of Untalan's letter, was that the money be used for a Seminary. And holy crap Batman, there was a building housing a Seminary that had a loan against it.
By the way, that letter published by Untalan did not indicate which seminary...just that it be a seminary.
But wait, let's back up...who found that building and worked hard to get that loan to purchase it?...that's right NCW. And who benefits from having that seminary?...every Catholic on Guam.
Dumb Catholic from Inarajan
Anonymous at 10:13am, even still you cannot say that another seminary should be built out of spite. We are one body that needs to stand united. Allowing another seminary to make other people happy in the church seems like it would start off by creating even more division and exacerbating the problem. Why? Isn't that the what caused the predicament we are in now? ...RMS priests vs Non-RMS priests...Those in the NCW and those not in the NCW. Opening another seminary in this climate seems like it would only add fuel to the fire, even if the seminary itself is good. Now does not seem like the most appropriate time.
DeleteAnon at 1:14 pm, there are two seminary on Guam already and yet there are Catholics wishing to kick out the RMS. They also want to kick out NCW. Why? What did RMS and NCW do to them or say to them?
DeleteThe point is not a new Seminary or the NCW. The point is Catholics who are hating on the RMS and Catholics in the NCW and want them eliminated.
You should offer a solution
Thanks. I'm done with this topic.
Dumb Catholic from Inarajan
Solution: That all may know the love and mercy of God through all our works in this world.
ReplyDeleteThe Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, LET ME SOW LOVE
Where there is injury, PARDON
Where there is doubt, FAITH
Where there is despair, HOPE
Where there is darkness, LIGHT
And where there is sadness, JOY
O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console
To be understood as to understand
To be loved as to love
For it is in giving that we receive
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned
And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life
Amen.
The solution has and always will be to live the gospel.
My name is Joseph T. Naputi. I walk in the 1st Neocatechumenal Way Community of Chalan Pago within the Nuestra Señora De La Paz y Buen Viaje parish. I am Catholic.
DeleteI believe the Neocatechumenal Way is not being fairly portrayed in the media. Lost is how the Way has helped people’s lives. From my own experience. When I was single, as a typical young adult, I partied and danced in night clubs, sung in karaoke bars, and got quite drunk. Did a lot of stupid things. And I was not happy. I was alone. I felt I was not loved. One night, I broke down and cried out to God. He heard my cries. God led me back to the Church and I am now married with two sons.
What am I trying to say? The Neocatechumenal Way helped me realize that God was always by my side and never abandoned me. Jesus loves me! The Way helped me discover the richness of the Bible - to see God speaking to me in scripture. After being introduced to the Liturgy of the Hours, around 4am each morning, my wife and I do our Morning Prayer and Office of Readings. And the Way helped me to experience the love and mercy of God through the Sacrament of Reconciliation.
Is the Neocatechumenal Way the only way to discover God? Of course not! My wife and I are also active in Couples for Christ.
The Neocatehumenal Way is God’s gift to me.
Dear Joe Naputi, I admire your brave testimony published by revealing your name and identity. This truly moved me to tears. I know you will be picked on, singled out and called by names by our adversaries, who are so horrified by everyone who comes forward on our side! But have to show them who we are, so that they can continue to be horrified by the power of Christ who gives us strength and courage.
DeleteI am moved to tears, dear Joe, because I cannot follow you example. I am so sorry, but I am much in fear for my job and my family. I know too well that those rabid dogs would chase me down and destroy my livelihood just because I committed myself to following my Lord though the Way.
But I surely wish your example would be followed my many. If just one person from every community could allow to come forward without fear and speak about the saving work of the Neocatechumenal Way, then we would have a insurmountable phalanx of courage and integrity that cannot be broken by anyone who is against the Lord!
Oh, how I wish I could join you, dear Joe! How I wish I could see the testimonies of the brave making a difference for Guam. I am praying without ceasing for that! And I pray to my Jesus that He may forgive me, because I am not brave enough to stand up in a time of impediment and trial!
God bless you for your example and leadership, dear Joe!