Monday, June 20, 2016

Responding To Devil's Advocate

A poster named Devil's Advocate gave the following comment, which can be found here:

Devil's AdvocateJune 20, 2016 at 9:47 PM 
What exactly is The Truth? Proving EITHER innocence or guilt? Meaning you are right and Tim is wrong or you are wrong and Tim is right? You have to choose according to both of your standards. So it seems that neither of you can compromise because both of you want to prove the other wrong. 
Does guilt and innocence even matter? Why not just apologize? Wouldn't that be the most peaceful solution? The alleged victims don't need to go to court they just want an apology. So why not apologize and say I'm sorry for the wrong that was done to you, whether it is true or not? If it is going to heal them, then why not? I mean why care what people are going to say or think about it? The political ramifications? Well, who cares about political power. Is it the fear of losing power, position, and reputation that keeps you fighting to prove guilt or innocence? Why fight at all? 
The claim is fighting for the church right? But fighting against whom? The devil that sows division and confusion? Well then show me where the division and confusion are because if anything BOTH blogs are causing division and confusion because while you claim to both be on the side of the church you are choosing to force the church to believe EITHER the Archbishop is guilty or he's innocent.  
What can you agree on in this civil war? Why don't we start from there?

This is my response:  

Dear Devil's Advocate, 

You asked many questions, which makes it difficult to determine where to start.  So, I will start with your second paragraph under "Question".  

Does guilt and innocence even matter? Why not just apologize? Wouldn't that be the most peaceful solution? 

It is very easy to dismiss guilt and innocence when you are not the one on trial. I have a cousin who was accused of rape.  In the end, they found him innocent. It was a paternity test that proved his innocence.  To him, his innocence mattered because it was his life, his character, and reputation.  You probably do not think those things matter to you, but you may think differently if you were the one accused of a crime you did not commit.  

What can you agree on in this civil war? Why don't we start from there?

I think the ownership of the RMS property would be an easy start.  Archbishop Hon can look into it and then determine who owns the property.   And when he announces that the RMS property belongs to the Archdiocese of Agana, how do you think the other side will respond???     


  1. It is only one side that wants to turn this into dirty politics.

    1. Who is filling the media with trash?
    2. Who is recruiting and soliciting fake and malicious charges?
    3. Who is committing character assassination every single day?
    4. Who is demanding the resignation of our Archbishop?
    5. Who is trying to coerce Archbishop Hon and Vatican to act on their behalf?
    6. Who is threatening the NCW by telling they'll wipe us out of Guam?
    7. Who is turning to politicians for help asking them to pass anti-constitutional legislation?
    8. Who is playing to role of slanderous Danton and murderous Marat from the French Revolution?
    9. Who is announcing jihad against us Catholics in order to intimidate and terrorize our communities?
    10. Who is acting in this whole affair with anger, hatred and profanity?

    Tell me anon, please, who? Tell me why one side only, always the same one side?! Why Doesn't this tell you who are for waging a "holy war" here and who are for peace? Please, be honest!

  2. Dear Devil's Advocate, you say this:

    "I'm sorry for the wrong that was done to you, whether it is true or not?"

    Lol! This would be hilarious if it would not be so tragic. You come here to demand an admission of something "whether it is true or not"? What do you mean by that, my friend?

    1. Dear Anonymous at 11:05 pm,

      That is an excellent point you made. That also reminds me of something I read. In KUAM news, this is what Tim Rohr stated:

      "Rohr tells KUAM that it's the Vatican, not Apuron, doing the housecleaning now. "We believe it will result in a new bishop," the blogger projected. It's impossible, even if the sexual allegations against him are proven false, the fact that he so badly botched the response to that.""

      Now that I think of it......"even if the sexual allegations against him are proven false..." Why would he even make such a statement, knowing full well about the statutes of limitations.

    2. Yes, dear Diana, Rohr is very skillful in deceit but delusional in his mind.

      His anger and hatred had taken his better half a long time ago. He is talking too much, his propaganda is coming even from the tap water now. Lol! He wants to blind his followers. Jungle folks cannot think for themselves anymore, they just follow Rohr as mindless puppets.

      This is the same sad thing Joseph Goebbels invented in the third reich to fight against the perceived enemies. Talk nonsense, repeat and re-cycle the same trash over and over again on every public channels until people get exhausted and allow you win.

      Would we allow the allegations "proven false" to win? I wonder.

  3. I am amazed that some people still do not recognize who populate the Junglewatch blog and what kind of attitude is coming out from there. So dear Devil's Advocate, let me tell you the analogy of rabid dogs.

    This is one of those things people on island might not know well: how to handle a rabid dog? Luckily, this canine disease is nonexistent among the dogs of Guam. Because I had lived off island for a while, I had to learn a most basic advise:

    Never try to pat and pacify a rabid dog, because it will maul you no matter what! A rabid dog is not interested in peace, he is interested in attacking, devouring and tearing apart. Why? Very simple reason: because it is a disease, a terribly violent and deadly disease that kills everyone whoever is infected.

    So my advice to you, dear Devil's Advocate, do not even go close to a rabid dog, rather run away as fast as you can! That is the only thing that will save you from malicious injury. Meantime you may call the appropriate authorities who handle cases of rabid dogs to come and do their job.

    Do you understand?

  4. So, are you saying Rohr was "Devil's Advocate?" I somehow doubt it.

  5. I hope you all have a chance to read the email from Mr. Sablan (CCOG) to Rorh.

    A Rabid Dog Indeed!

    As I have encouraged in the past, "let them continue with their rhetoric".

    Mr. Sablan is very shallow in his thoughts on resolving this issue. Plain and simple, he believes that the only fix is to rid the island of anything NCW. Any conflict resolution specialist would know that this kind of approach would never restore unity.

    First of all the NCW is not going anywhere, the anti-neo bishops in Japan tried to do it but even Rome said, No!

    Plain and simple, if you dont agree with Rome then go and build your own church. Rome has and continues to say, the NCW is good for society and for our times. The NCW is catholic, are you?

    Again and again they will say that the NCW is not following its statutes, the NCW teaches that Jesus was a sinner, the NCW doesnt believe in the real presence but every time the NCW has denied this, they just continue to attack like a rabid dog.

    Thankful to the commenter who tied the similar characteristics of the junglefolk to rabid dogs because for the longest time I just couldnt find the answer to best describe them.

    -Jokers Wild

    1. Junglewatch same names creating trouble for our church. You can name them on two hands. Couple ofJungle names not Guam residents. But he has big mouth deep pockets.

    2. Anon 6:48--
      Sure you can name them on two hands....that's the thing: you can name them. Only a couple posters here post their name. The rest, as I do, remain anonymous so you can't name them.
      Even the owner of this blog is anonymous!


    I don't even know where to begin with that. If you were innocent of crime you didn't commit, would you come out just so the other can "make peace" with the alleged history? What do YOU think will happen if AB went that route? It won't stop there. They'd start saying "they knew it"!

    NO, the AB should NOT apologize for something he didn't do. But YOU should stop with your non-sense.

  7. Is this the same Sablan who is involved with the GHURA administration that is under FBI investigation?
    Screwing local people for personal gain? I dont trust him either like the attourney......

    1. peel the onion and we will see what is in the center. Funny how the arch bishop did not pursue legal actions against the so called finance counsel for their excellent oversight of church funds; the very same people who reciprocate by wanting the Apuron's head on a platter. These devoted Catholic's have not a clue about mercy...forgiveness.

  8. Devil's Advocate...
    Well, you tried. But I could've told you that it wasn't going to work because this whole thing has gone way too far and the extremists have taken over the blogs.
    While I don't agree with everything you wrote, I do agree with this, "show me where the division and confusion are because if anything BOTH blogs are causing division and confusion".

    1. Dear Anonymous at 9:48 am,

      This blog never made any demands. The other blog made demands, and one of those demands is to wipe out the NCW. Perhaps, you can explain how this blog has caused division and confusion?

    2. Diana at 10:05AM--
      This blog, as the other one, has contributors whose posts indicate they will not accept anything contrary to their thinking. Devil's Advocate suggested compromise--the extremists of each blog will not compromise, there's your division. As for confusion--so many instances of miscommunication. Misinterpretation and misunderstanding of comments, second guessing people's intents on both sides! Then there's the the tangents the comments take off on (try as you might to prevent them).....
      But, this is generally common with blogs, so not meant to be a criticism of yours.

      You continuously say there needs to be an investigation....I agree. But that's only the beginning.

    3. Dear Anonymous at 4:36 pm,

      One purpose of this blog is to clear up misconceptions of the Way, not to spread propaganda against the Way. If a person asks ask if the NCW believes if Jesus is a sinner, I can answer that question. The answer is no. Asking a question is not spreading propaganda.

      Devil's Advocate did not offer a compromise. I do not see Devil's Advocate going into the jungle asking Tim to give up his protests and agenda. Yes, there will be an investigation, but first Archbishop Apuron must clear himself of the sexual allegations. After that, he can focus on taking canonical measure and the lawsuit.

  9. How come it is that on sundays the protesters protest archbishop apuron to resign and no one is holding up signs that say they pray for him and the abused?? I thought they said they are catholic? Wouldnt it make sense to? It only shows that they are all in the plot for unknown reasons...
    Talk about jumping on the "band wagon"
    Thats a pretty stong gamble of faith...

    1. The signs now say "DEFROCK APURON". Better to resign now.

    2. Dear Anonymous at 10:28 pm,

      Their signs have already judged him without a trial. What happens if the Pope finds him not guilty?

    3. Highly doubt that he's not guilty. All his actions prove it. He would have handled it differently if indeed he was innocent.

    4. Dear Anonymous at 9:04 am,

      If you were the one accused of sexual molestation and you know you did not do it, you would have acted no differently. An innocent person is not going to entertain people who seek his demise.

    5. No Diana. I would face my accusers and not hide from them if I were indeed innocent of the charges.

    6. Dear anonymous at 11:03 am,

      He did faced his accusers. He did not hide from them. Just as they came out in public and accused him, so did he came out in public and declared his innocence.

    7. As a loving shepherd, he should have invited them to come meet with him to talk and resolve the accusations if they were not true. But not once did he make an attempt. And to make matters worse, AB Hon hasn't either! Why do you think this is Diana?

    8. Anon. 12:19 am, GET REAL! If he had invited them to come meet with him, his accusers would tell the media that Apuron tried to bribe them into shutting up. Good thing he went public so everyone knows that he declared his innocence. As Diana pointed out earlier, no matter what Apuron does - good or bad - he's condemned for it.