Patience is a virtue. Whenever there is a problem, it takes time to resolve it. It is always best to allow time to do its work. Rome has already stepped in, and so the people should give Archbishop Hon the chance and opportunity to do what he came to do. Also, remember that Pope Francis asked the people of Guam to give their TRUST and prayers. No matter what happens, we continue to pray. The decision that Archbishop Hon may not be in our favor, but God has a plan in this. It is in this that we will shine like true Christians and all those who see the light of Christ in us will rejoice and believe in God.
When the Vatican steps in to help establish unity, this is not the same as the United States coming in to solve our problems. The Church does not take the attitude and mentality of colonialism. The universal Church is one....one body. We are not here to place demands on the Archbishop. We are the ones to be obedient to the Holy See. It is not the Holy See who should be obedient to us. There should be a spirit of cooperation, collaboration, and dialogue. As Catholics, we follow the Holy Father, Pope Francis who is the Vicar of Christ. And the Holy Father sent us Archbishop Hon to try and establish unity within our church. The Vatican has stepped in. Archbishop Hon has been here for only a short time. Allow him to do his job. Rome is here, so let Rome! According to KUAM news:
The Apostolic Administrator appointed by the Pope to temporarily manage the local archdiocese asks for patience. A media release issued this afternoon, states that in the past seven days since arriving to Guam Archbishop Savio Hon Tai-Fai has met with various Archdiocesan Councils and has met individually with priests.He says that in all of his encounters he's found the priests, deacons, religious, and lay faithful to be very collaborative and helpful in promoting the good of the diocese. Archbishop Hon asks for the people's trust as they continue the process of consulting, reflecting and promoting the unity, harmony, and stability of the Church in Guam.
Just a note to KUAM, PNC and all other media outlets:
ReplyDeleteThere are many Catholics who dont sympathize with the NCW, who dont support the CCOG or the LFM but also have their opinions about all this drama in the diocese. Please realize that those manamko in the CCOG and LFM do not represent the majority of Catholics. There are also many mature adults, young adults and teens who continue to stand with the church and with the Archbishop. There are many who also dont give a crap about what Rorh has to say.
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
Diana, what do you mean "the decision of Archbishop Hon may not be in our favor..."? Did I miss something?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:56 am,
DeleteResolution of conflicts always comes with compromises. A compromise means both sides must give up something in order to work for peace.
I don't think Tim can give up anything. He can't give up a simple thing like the name "Catholic" to go around the decree. It always has to be his way and no other way.
DeleteVatican's doctrinal congregation calls on bishops, lay movements to respect each other
ReplyDeleteJoshua J. McElwee | Jun. 14, 2016
8
PrintemailPDF
VATICAN CITY The Vatican office responsible for overseeing the doctrine of the global Catholic church has issued its first major document since the March 2013 election of Pope Francis, reflecting on the relationship between the church's bishops and so-called "charismatic movements" that emphasize new styles of evangelization or wider Catholic life.
In the letter Iuvenescit Ecclesia ("The Church Rejuvenates"), the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith says the prelates and the new groups have specific obligations to one another and should above all recognize each other as "co-essential" to the life of the global Catholic community.
The bishops, the letter states, must respect "the particularity of individual charismatic groups, avoiding juridical straitjackets that deaden the novelty which is born from the specific experience."
The groups, it says, must respect "the fundamental ecclesial regimen" by inserting themselves into the life of their local church communities and must avoid "any danger that the charismatic entities might be considered in some way as running parallel to the ecclesial life."
The new Vatican document, released Tuesday, is addressed specifically to what it calls "more recent realities that can be described as groups of the faithful, ecclesial movements, and new communities."
Such groups, which can sometimes take on characteristics similar to religious orders but do not normally include the taking of vows, usually involve lay Catholics who gather together for specific purposes or interests.
Some examples include the Focolare Movement, an Italian-founded international organization that promotes universal friendship; the Neocatechumenal Way, a Spanish-founded group that provides post-baptismal formation to adults; and Regnum Christi, a lay movement associated with the Legion of Christ, the religious order founded by the disgraced Mexican sexual abuser Marcial Maciel.
KUAM News In the summer of 1977, Sondia said he along with other altar boys were spending the night at the Mt. Carmel Rectory. He alleges Fr. Tony (Apuron) walked in, tapped him to wake him up and told him he needed help. He said he brought him into his bedroom and asked him if he wanted to try him. Sondia alleges Fr. Tony then began squeezing his penis. Sondia said he was in shock and asked him what is he doing and left.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:47 am,
DeleteYes, I know. It was all planned by Tim Rohr. After all, he did say to watch for June 15th at 10:00 am. How strange that they all came out at the bidding of Tim Rohr.
I'm sorry but they way they're coming out, and for Tim to know it all, I think they're lying. Is Tim now the go-to guy for victims of sex abuse?
DeleteI'm beginning to suspect the same thing. Doris Conception said that her son's dying wish was to have his ashes spread or buried on Guam. That was 11 years ago, and she didn't follow her son's dying wish most likely due to financial problems. Then she comes out and say that her son told her on his deathbed that he was molested by Apuron. After saying that, she now has the finances to fly to Guam and fulfill her son's dying wish? That's sounds suspicious.
DeleteIf the TIMING is suspect, perhaps it's because Rohr was making the biggest noise and was the one to gather them and encourage them to come forth?
DeleteBUT, I doubt that even he can make them all lie about their encounter with Apuron. Do you actually believe he can convince them to lie about something as horrible as this? How many have to come forth before you realize that they are telling the truth?!
@ Anon. 12:13 pm. Tim is the highest ranking Amway salesman. Salesman are great in convincing people in buying their products. If Tim can manage to convince our manakos to act violently the way they did at the airport, how much more make others lie? In Roy's and Walter's interview, they both said that the church is the people not the bishops and priests. They got that from Tim because Tim also said the same thing in the Jess Lujan show.
DeleteViolently? Old people were physically assaulting the Gennarinis? Or was it not violent, but rather passionate? The words seems minor, but violence can be interpreted as terrorism, and I'm not thinking anyone is accusing our manamko of that.
DeleteTim is the most visible person in this whole craziness, so it makes sense that he would be informed. It's not necessary that he orchestrated this stuff. Possible, of course, but not necessarily so.
Deletewhat is the commission fee for a realtor on a property sale worth 50-70 million dollars?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 2:24 pm,
DeleteThis is why I feel that there should be an investigation.
Dear Anonymous at 2:21 pm,
DeleteYelling in front of the person's face and calling him "Satan" is verbal violence.
Anon 5:36, normally 6% with a 50/50 split. So if the sold the land 70 million, TR will possibly receive about 2.1 million.
DeleteI agree...Timing IS suspect. But nonetheless, it is HIGHLY impossible for Tim to pay these victims off to lie. So, the family of the alleged victims must be in on this conspiracy?
ReplyDeleteThis kind of talk sickens me. I may not agree with all that has been said, but the allegations of molestation and rape are out there. These victims are hurting! Shame on you people for seeing that. Why on God's green earth would someone publicly admit that his "ass-hole" was penetrated and his butt wet? Tim has NO money to pay these people off. C'mon...
Dear Anonymous at 12:32 pm and 12:44 pm,
DeleteTim does not have the money to pay the victims to lie. However, CCOG has the money. They been collecting money from their members. If I remember correctly, Tim said that they collected almost $100,000 and only needed about $5000 more. Yet, according to Tim, CCOG paid the sex abuse ads in the newspapers.
CCOG and Tim told their members that they needed money to hire an attorney to take the Archbishop to court in order to take the RMS property back. Then we find out from Tim Rohr himself, that CCOG paid for the sex abuse ads that he designed. Why is money that was supposed to go into hiring a lawyer being spent for sex abuse ads designed by Tim Rohr? Now, they are asking for more money.
As for Tim Rohrs preaching about the Church being the people and not the bishops and priests. He is only half correct. The Church is the people, but the Church also includes the Bishops and priests. The Church is ALL the people of God, which also includes the Bishops and priests.
Tim was never the one with the money. He also is getting paid. The people paying him are CCOG. The accusers are getting paid too.
DeleteAnon 12:32 pm, the soft porn that you produce here is disgusting and unacceptable. This blog is read by many people including kids. You deliberately poison the minds of these kids and young adults by these pornographic images. This is not only sinful it is also irresponsible. This is a predator's strategy.
DeleteWe look at this as evidence of a pornographic mind producing these soft porn images that are all around not only in the testimonies of alleged victims but also in the pages of Junglewatch. This is a most important and most revealing pattern that is evidencing the nature of the mastermind who planned, composed and mouth fed these fake testimonies into the media shows of these alleged victims.
This consistent pattern of "Freudian slips" as the literature calls it is, among other obvious patterns, of crucial importance to expose the grand design of conspirators. As Diana pointed out above there are other visible patterns that betray the intention and character of the mastermind of this vicious design of irreversibly damaging our precious Catholic Church by cruel and mindless character assassination.
This nasty situation reminds me of another famous anti-clerical movement, the French Revolution from the end of the 18th century in France.
DeleteThe French Revolution was extremely cruel, violent and bloody. It was not only against the king but also against the church! Its chief proponents like Georges Danton and Jean-Paul Marat led the pack by singling out and pinpointing people that they wanted to disappear. How? By destroying and murdering them. They stormed the Bastille, the symbol of power and destroyed it. Then the guillotine was invented, a device to cut off the heads of people quickly and efficiently so that they may kill more. Revolutionaries set up the guillotine in the center of Paris to terrorize the inhabitants of the city. Executions became a spectacle and public entertainment for an artificially incited and blood thirsty crowd, the sans-culotte. Just read about it in the history books!
Now, we see history re-played on Guam against the Catholic Church. Rohr is roaring like Danton by pinpointing the victims he wants to destroy. Frenchie and other no-name anons play the role of Marat, imported straight from France, who write their manifestos with pens filled by blood, calling for more attacks and more damages against the church. Matt Blockley is mauling and devouring the church establishment like a Robespierre. The Chancery is relentlessly assaulted like the Bastille of Paris. Wow!
They have already set up their guillotine in the local media where they entertain their blood-thirsty followers by daily spectacles. CCOG and LFM form their army of senseless sans-culottes who demand more and more destruction.
I wonder what all these French style revolutionaries on Guam think the role of our newly appointed administrator, Archbishop Hon should be in this wicked farce design?
What's disgusting is what Apuron did to these men while they were kids, altar servers under his watch! After all these years, these men can finally gain closure but in the process have had to re-live the atrocities inflicted upon them. They can finally confront their abuser, say what happened so the abuser knows that they haven't forgotten one moment of the disgusting event, and know that he will get his due.
DeleteWhat's disgusting is how you call them fake.
Dear Anonymous at 7:24 pm,
DeleteIn our society, a man is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. All accusations are allegations. And even the media calls them alleged victims because the accused has not received due process yet.
Diana, I heard it's not "innocent until proven guilty" but "presumed innocent until proven guilty" in a court of law. But imagine this: You own a Mom & Pop store and you have only one employee. After that person has been working for you and has done a great job for 6 months, you start to notice that the money at the close of business doesn't match the receipts. It's anywhere from $15-$30 short. It doesn't happen just once. It happens about once or twice a week. You run a small business and you don't have video cameras to prove that your employee is responsible for the missing cash. You can't prove that the employee is responsible for the missing cash. Would you keep that employee because you believe that he (or she) is "innocent until proven guilty"? Or would you dismiss the employee?
DeleteI've worked in both the private and public sectors. I can tell you that in the private sector, the person is fired. In the public sector, the person is put on "leave" pending the outcome of the investigation. If the person is "innocent until proven guilty" as you say, wouldn't they be allowed to stay on the job?
But in the Church, when it comes to sexual abuse, even the policy of the archdiocese requires the bishop (or archbishop) to place the accused on leave immediately, pending the outcome of the investigation. Why is that? Why is the priest or deacon removed from ministry immediately? Because the accused is presumed to be guilty until proven innocent. And the Pope has said that the care of the victims is to be top priority. Locally until Archbishop Hon's response to Roland Sondia the response from archdiocese has been to call Apuron's accusers liars. According to the archdiocese under Apuron the victims have been already been judged by the hierarchy as malicious and calumnious liars.
Dear Anonymous at 4:18 am,
DeleteYou are correct. A person is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Like the government, I would place the employee on leave pending the outcome of the courts.
You have it backwards. In our justice system, it is not the accusers who are placed on trial. It is the accused who is placed on trail and has to go through due process. It is the accused whom the court has to determine whether he/she is guilty or not. So, when the accused say that he is innocent, he is not calling his accusers "liars", he is proclaiming his innocence. It is the accusers who can call the accused a "liar." It is not the other way because the accusers are not the ones on trial.
Archbishop Hon is not the one who is accused of sexual abuse. If he was accused of sexual abuse, do you think he would give his accusers the same response as he did Roland Sondia? Or do you think he would also come out and proclaim his innocence?
Diana, you say you would place the one employee in your Mom & Pop store on leave pending the outcome of the courts. How would the case have gotten to the court? Would you call the police? Would you do your own investigation? There's a big gap between what happened in between discovering the pattern of missing money and the case going to court. Could you please explain the steps you would take?
DeleteYou are correct that Archbishop Hon was not the one accused of sexual abuse BUT in other instances where bishops were accused of sexual abuse, their response was to step aside and appoint an independent (from the Church) investigative team. In the case of Guam's archbishop he chose not just to deny the allegations but he also said the accusers were spreading malicious and calumnious lies. I think if Archbishop Hon had been the one accused, he would proclaim his innocence without maligning his accusers like Archbishop Apuron did. I think he would proclaim his innocence and then he would have done as Cardinal Pell did which was to immediately step aside and allow an investigation to take place.
Dear Anonymous at 7:43 am,
DeleteFrom what we have recently learned, it is the Vatican that investigates the bishop rather then an independent investigator. And how do you proclaim your innocence when proclaiming your innocence is what made the accusers think they were being called liars in the first place?
Of course the victims have gone through Tim Rohr and the CCOG. What other avenue would have made any sense, especially when church leaders are publicly calling them liars? Also, it would have been foolish if none of the victims were organized. By comig together to plan how they were to release the news, they are able to prevent their experiences from being forgotten and swept under the rug which is exactly what many leaders in the archdiocese want. You can't blame them for wanting to take the smartest course of action in informing the public.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 2:15 pm,
DeleteTheir timing is suspect. Roy Quintanilla came out AFTER Tim Rohr did not like what Father Edivaldo said through the media about the Archbishop not being a child molester 100%. Then the next alleged victim came out AFTER Tim Rohr was upset when Deacon Tenorio supported the Archbishop.
We know that Tim was upset that Archbishop Hon has not removed the decree and after that another alleged victim came out. The timing is suspect, and they always come out after Tim is extremely upset over something. An investigation needs to be conducted.
Oh man, you give Tim Rohr too much credit...to be able to time all this like a perfectly choreographed ballet! Sure, I think he was seeking out more victims once he got one--there usually are more than just one. And, of course, some of the timing was planned to make sure it got the best attention. But I doubt it's all as you laid it out.
DeleteWhile I think it is rotten of Tim to use these people's sufferings, I don't believe for a minute that they are paid to say these awful things. As a victim of sexual abuse myself (not by a clergy), I can tell they are recounting the events as they happened. Their healing has finally begun....and the more you imply they are lying, the more they are hurting and it hampers their healing process. Please, people, pray for them instead!
Suspect right Diana. Same face appearing background.
DeleteKuam news became playground for anti church movement. Kuam paid to cover agenda. Go to kuam news look at who praises Kuam for covering victim news. Same old names. Yes you got it!
DeleteI agree with you, Diana. The church includes all the faithful, clergy, bishops and cardinals well. Do I want to believe that Apron is capable of such disgusting and criminal acitivities? I hope not. But, that doesn't mean he is incapable. Sure, there's a chance that these alleged victims are lying, but for that many to come forward? That's a whole lot of lies that everyone must memorize. Not just the alleged victims, but their families as well.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the Quintanilla, Sondia, Denton, and Quinata families are eager lie just to be in the limelight or to oust Apuron.
The more alleged victims are coming out with their fake, mouth fed testimonies, the more chances are that the grand design of the mastermind of anti-church conspirators can be identified and evidenced at court.
DeleteFor one, there is no proof whatsoever that the Agat priestly residence has ever served as a place of sleepover parties for underage altar boys. Where is this coming from? Who can confirm that? For me, this claim looks like pure invention.
Another one is that in my opinion parents were not so stupid and irresponsible even back at the 70-ies that they would have allowed their young boys stay out for the night without supervision. Why and how would they have allowed this reckless indecency in the first place? These extreme underlying assumptions are appearing in all testimonies that raises serious doubts about the credibility of the uniformly designed stories and charges.
You go ahead and continue with your opinions. Do you honestly believe that it was unheard of to have the altar servers sleep over?
DeleteI don't think that the alleged victims' parents allowed them to run around recklessly. Apuron requested for the boys to spend the night. Their parents agreed as it was Påle that was asking. Obviously, they entrusted their children in Apuron's care.
If you allowed your child to spend the night at a relative's house and your child experienced being molested, I don't believe you would be at fault for allowing your child to spend the night. It would be the fault of the perpetrator. The person that committed the molestation.
Before you allow your kid to go close to the beach, you have to check the signs. If it says Beware of the Alligators then it is better to run! If you let your baby be swallowed by the alligator then who is responsible for that?
Deletehttp://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/15/us/alligator-attacks-child-disney-florida/
Common sense tells you don't leave your underage kid out for the night without supervision. Are you not a lousy parent to let your kid out in the dark? It does not matter if it is on church property or not, you have to take your kid home with you. Plain and simple as it is!
Anonymous @6:33pm and 12:25pm--
DeleteBack in the day it was common for altar servers to have sleepovers at the rectory with Påle. Most parents felt it was their way of helping out the church--the boys would help clean around the church and accompany Påle as he made his rounds to the homebound. It was not unheard of! My brothers did this, as did other young boys in the neighborhood. I and my female friends would do the same in the convent with the nuns.
For you to say there is "no proof" that this kind of thing happened indicates you are either very young, or did not grow up in a small village setting. For you to think that the boys were unsupervised, shows you just plain didn't get it (maybe because you are very young?).
Back then we grew up in a setting where we trusted our neighbours (most were our relatives), played out in the dark, stayed over at the rectory/convent. Believe me, my parents were not stupid or lousy -- they were very responsible.
And....nobody "allows this reckless indecency" to happen, but unfortunately they do.
all were given a script
ReplyDeletethey were rehearsing late into the night
instructions on when to cry, look at the camera
paid per word, bonuses for interviews
And you have that in writing?
Deleteare you blind,
Deleteof course it is "in writing" its written by Anonymous June 15, 2016 at 4:00 PM
Anon @ 4 PM, if you have proof that Quintanilla, Denton & Sondia were given scripts with instructions and got paid per word and got bonuses for interviews then take it all to the cops. You can put a stop to this nonsense.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:58 pm,
DeleteThe Archbishop will be taking them to court for defamation.
Diana, there's no need to wait for the lawsuit. If Anon @ 4 PM has the proof then the cops can arrest them all even Rorh and Lujan for fraud. That will shut down this nonsense.
DeleteDiana, Tim wrote his fourth episode of Orchestrated. In it, he said he was in contact with Denton on August, 2015, although he didn't specify the exact date.
DeleteAnd what next? Will Tim convince people that there are 12 virgins waiting for them if they strap on a bomb vest? If they can do that in isis training camps, then i guess it can happen here......
ReplyDeleteThey should have used the money to pay down some of the depts Hagatna cathederal had incured since last admin.....
ReplyDeleteand the best thing about it all is that they are all represented by the most professional liar on Guam. Lest we forget those obvious cases and indictments where we thought favorably because of the evidence at hand that the guilty verdict was forthcoming only to be surprised with the innocence or technicality flaw. God Help Us!
ReplyDeleteThey thought that the NCW had a conspiracy plan but I beg to differ now.
It is very strange that Rohr announced in the jungle that they, the lay people of Guam, have a duty to force Vatican to act. How is this so?
ReplyDeleteNow, the jungle, the CCOG and the LFM all feel they have the duty to drive Vatican officials and the Curia into action on Guam. Great! The grand design of these rebellious church groups:
1. overriding whatever Vatican or Archbishop Hon is trying to do,
2. taking control of the events and
3. forcing a decision favorable to them.
It is truly about power and control! About who is in control of the Catholic Church at the highest level in Rome.
Local church groups of Guam are wrestling out power from the hands of Vatican and its representatives. They are blackmailing top Catholic Church leaders by producing scandal after scandal, an incessant campaign of alleged sexual abuses. They are not shy to parade a stream of alleged sexual abuse victims in the local media day after day.
Is this decent? Is this admissible? Is this the impression Vatican allows to be projected into the world about church affairs? Well, absolutely not!
Guam became like an experimental lab for anti-Catholic activities. SNAP and its shameless allies try to find a venomous poison that could instantly kill the church. If the adversaries of church unity and peace prevail, then their victory will send a loud message to every part of the world. The message will be this: the Catholic Church and Vatican can be pounded into submission by clever covert tactics. No church official will be safe anymore as the gates of made-up and concocted sexual abuse charges will be opened and the whole church will be inundated with scandals.
It is not to be taken lightly, folks. If the adversaries of church leadership are victorious here on Guam, then the enemies of the Catholic Church will find a wide avenue of opportunities everywhere on the earth to strike and cause more damage to everything we know as Catholic.
This is why we turn to Archbishop Hon and to Vatican with open arms and high hopes. We pray that they do not allow the adversaries of the One Holy Catholic Mother Church to prevail.
I have worked as a social worker for the govt. For 26 years. I am also walking in the way, have been for 8 years. Do you all not see how you're talking in the same way a spouse of an abuser would to defend the abuser?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous 9:51 pm,
DeleteI believe in innocent until proven guilty.
Sorry, Diana, but I don't think it is "christian" to belive in innocent until proven guilty for Bishop Apuron and not for those men supposedly abused by him and for Tim Rohr.
DeleteI have been reading some posts in your blog and objectively I realize you consider Tim and those men like real enemies. Why? Just because their opinion about the Way. Supporting a group, organization or movement does not give you the right to judge those who do not agree with you. Being/not being "of the Way" cant't be the principal reason to judge or to be judged by.
If Tim Rohr would be in a neocatechumenal community, you will not speak about him in the same terms you do. And what about Apuron if the wasn't in the Way? And what about those people who had the banners when Gennarini's visit?
What are you told to do in the Way with this kind of opinions and attitudes of others? Are you told to insult them? Are you told to defend your self? You are told do not resist the evil. So?
Sorry but I do not find christian at all the way you speak about Tim Rohr, people who do not like the Way and those man supposedly abused by Bishop Apuron.
I remain Marcial Maciel did not accept any accusation of sexual abuse, he did not accept being a morphine's adict...The worst thing was he did not ask for forgiveness (as it is documented).
That is the Devil's real work.
Please, consider it. You do not have any right to defend Bishop Apuron while condemning Tim Rohr and those men supposedly abused.
Do not judge!
Dear Lapaz,
DeleteAs anyone who have read my blog knows, I have published comments I do not always agree with. I believe in freedom of expression so long as it is done with responsibility. A person can express their opinions against the Way so long as they remain respectful.
I believe in the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" for anyone accused of a crime. Archbishop Apuron is no different. And this principle is very "Christian" because Christ said that he who is without sin should cast the first stone. The only one capable of "casting any stone" (judging) would be Christ because He is the only one without sin.
Diana, your theory of CCOG paying these men (former altar boys from Agat) to bear false witness is flawed. CCOG, like any Non-Profit Organization has an open ledger accounting for every penny collected and spent. Where is the accounting of every penny collected and spent from the NCW gatherings? In a court of law, you will loose because of your false theory of accountability.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 11:47 pm,
DeleteCCOG used money they collected to hire an attorney to bring a lawsuit against the Archbishop for something else. They already broke the law by using that money to pay for the sex abused ads designed by Tim Rohr. Money collected for a specific purpose are never to be used for anything else other than what it was supposed to be used for. Also, CCOG has not published their financial report.
CCOG has money for at least 4 more alleged "victims" to buy, bring forward and parade them in the media.
DeleteSo, the Archbishop is "innocent until proven guilty", but CCOG broke the law? DOuble standards?
DeleteWho's the the man standing next to the all the victims,while they are speaking with their head down, like reading a script that has been written for them, the man next to them look like he's coaching them,if you look real close watch his lips, I wonder who wrote the script for them..........Tim Rohr
DeleteAsk all the victims to ''volunteer'' to take a lie detector test,and see what happens ?????????????
DeleteAnonymous June 16 12:29:
DeleteBy the same reason, the Neocatechumenal Way has infinitely much more money!
Dear Anonymous at 2:03 am,
DeleteIt was clear what CCOG did because it announced in the media. Everyone knew that Tim and CCOG announced that they were collecting money to hire an attorney to take the Archbishop to court. And everyone knew that CCOG used the money they collected to pay the sexabuse ads designed by Tim Rohr because Tim said so I the media. Anyone knows that is wrong. Even the government cannot use money that was appropriated for something else.
Anonymous @2:43--
Deletethe man standing next to them is their lawyer. And yes, he probably helped them prepare their testimony, like all good lawyers do. Not Tim Rohr. Try again.
Do you really think that their lawyer, or even the victims themselves, would want to hold a press conference unprepared?
DeleteDavid Luan wouldn't be a wise attorney if he let them go out there and shoot from the hip!
Someone must be paying victims.
ReplyDeleteWhere does money come from?
These folks got financial backing.
Who is financing this?
ReplyDeleteWhere is Financial report CCOG?
On line?
Who are donars to CCOG.?
Seriously? Do you think that the CCOG is filled with members with nuts and bolts for their brains?
ReplyDeleteSo you're saying that Dr. Santos- Bamba, Roy's niece, is a liar, is getting paid, and is in on this conspiracy that the archdiocese uncovered?
Dear Anonymous at 7:22 pm,
DeleteI do not think the family is getting paid or even lying. I think they are learning what their relative is saying for the very first time. But the puzzling part for me is not what the relatives say. It is the way they are coming out. They come out in the same way, making a speech with the media on them. They all have a letter prepared, and they all read from the letter. Since when has a victim ever read something about an event in his/ her life that is supposed to be traumatic? I can understand that they have a written testimony to give the Archbishop, but why read it. Do they not recall the events that happened to them without having to read it?
Furthermore, they all came out according to Tim's que........ lights, camera, action! Tim announced the time and date for them to come out rather than them coming out on their own. And when they come out, it is always AFTER Tim is extremely upset about something. It is almost like.......revenge. There should be an investigation on these sexual allegations and on Tim Rohr.
Perfectly ok to read a letter.
DeleteLetters well composed
Dear Anonymous at 11:56 pm,
DeletePublic speakers are known to read letters. Victims do not need to read letters to recount something traumatic.
No, Diana. When you are doing a press release it is always advisable to have a prepared statement-- most especially if it is to do with something traumatic. Otherwise, you'll get caught up in the emotion and end of being incoherent. As it is, they were having a difficult time holding back their tears.
DeleteAnonymous at 9:22 is correct. Even with the prepared statement, even after telling their families the victims still break down when they relive the trauma as they talk about it. I watch and cry thinking of the little boys they were.
DeleteBTW: I heard someone say that what Apuron allegedly did to Roy Quintanilla, Sonny Quinata and Walter Denton could be considered pedophilia because they were under 13. But Roland Sondia was 15 when he was invited to "try me" and then was groped by Apuron. With Roland, the allegation moves into homosexual activity because 13 is the cut-off age for pedophilia.
So much for "wait for Archbishop Hon." Here's a good idea: stoop to the jungle level. Very Christian of us.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 7:36 am,
DeleteArchbishop Hon said that he would let the Vatican deal with it since they are investigating Archbishop Apuron. We are only discussing the possibility that this may all be a conspiracy scam orchestrated by Tim Rohr. The Archdiocese of Agana said they have uncovered a conspiracy to topple the Archbishop. Perhaps,there may be some truth to what they say. This is why I advocate for an investigation on these allegations.
Diana,
ReplyDeleteYou are right! Timing in this situation is key. All these alleged accusations are coming forth by Tim Rohr. This was his plan since he started his JW. All these are because of Tim Rohr. When Tim is upset with something the people in the diocese does, this is his counter. The most recent one is Mr. Sondia. I'm not sure if what truly happened to him is real but his timing in coming forward because he felt "He's the only one" is something I question. Tim is the head of all this and his followers are blinded by how he himself and others in the LFM and CCOG are the cause of the division of the Catholic Church on Guam.
Just to be clear, I am not walking in the Neocatechumenal way, rather, I am just a regular catholic that goes to church to fulfill by Sunday obligation. I am also not a supporter of Tim Rohr or in any group of CCOG or LFM. I am a voice of the other Catholics that are not in a group or have a specific charism. I commend you Diana for your work and yes, I too am sadden by the outcome of what many people that follow Tim and his followers because they are misled, brainwashed and dumb about what is happening in the diocese.
For the past 3 years since Tim Rohr began his JW, he claims it was for Fr. Paul. Something to wonder, The Archbishop called Fr. Paul in to the chancery but it was tim who exposed the letter from the Archbishop to Fr. Paul. This could all be handled within the Fr. Paul and the Archbishop meaning within the family but Tim expose it. It was him who caused the division. Even the situation of Msgr James but then again, Paul and James wanted to expose the Archbishop by giving Tim those letters. Tim has time and time again gain documents from the diocese that is only supposed to be kept within. Deacon Martinez too gave away those letters too to expose the diocese. This was a path that some has taken and I believe that they should be removed from their original positions, and they were. For example, Documents containing vital information on people should not be expose such as their SSN#. In today's society, many people want to expose someone else's dirty laundry and not theirs because they think they're perfect. But nonetheless, this is how the division started at the root of Tim Rohr.
I believe that these people who are coming forward to accuse the Archbishop of sexually molesting them is quite odd. For over 37-40 years, these "men" decided to come out of the closet and tell their story. It makes me wonder because 1 is from Hawaii, and 2 others are from Arizona, then John Toves from California and most recently 1 from Guam who works at PDN. All these people have similar stories such as the time of 1:00 am. For many years to pass one would forget the event but these men have detailed stories and are reading from their papers when they publicly came out. What I mean is that no one can recount a detailed event that happened over 40 years ago. It is like saying for example that as an adult, maybe 52 years old, you would remember what diapers (brand name) your parents bought on a specific day and time or a trip that your parents said you went to when you were a toddler. That is why we have pictures of the event to help us recall or remind us of the time you took your vacation.
Guamboy you are comparing traumatic events vs everyday living. Of course I will not remember the diaper that I used. Traumatic experiences are different. It is something anybody will remember even if years have gone, especially with sexual assault cases.
DeleteNow back to Tim Rohr.
ReplyDeleteYes, people do not understand that Tim has cause this division. He stated himself that "he will do anything to have the bishop removed." Tim has gotten people/the elderly to protest against the Archbishop. Is this the way to teach our young or our children to disrespect the Church? Maybe in other families.
Tim is the root of this conspiracy. He has received monies from the CCOG and LFM and his followers to buy these men to come out. I questioned, why only now after many years these men came forward? But they say that they felt "they're the only one," most of these stories are similar because it was scripted by Tim and the attorney. Does Tim think that the solution to all this is to get rid of Archbishop Apuron? No, it just proves that those who protest are the division. Last Sunday, Archbishop Hon invited them to attend mass but most went back to their protest. This shows that the division is those in CCOG, LFM and Tim Rohrs followers. Instead of healing, and forgiving, they want it Rohrs way or NO Way.
Tim has been garnering money on his blog as well as those who support him. I believe they are paying these people to come forward.
In the most recent accusations by Sondia and Denton. Here is a question. Why only after many, many years you decided to tell your wives? And How come you decided to tell your story in a press conference in front of the Pastoral Center or Chancery for Roy? When someone who is molested or raped, they would not tell the media in a press conference. They would try to seek help from a therapist or a doctor. Why would you go in front of the public to tell them that "he put it in my asshole?" No one would expose their story in front of the media. That is why I question this. But then again its Tim's tactics. Then after a press conference the so called victim goes on radio shows to tell their story. I question that again. But like I said its Tim's tactics to expose. And what do all so called victims have in common, they want Archbishop Apuron Out, Just like Tim and all his followers want.
Archbishop Hon has a big task on his plate to restore unity and peace in the Archdiocese of Agana but how can this be to have unity when the CCOG, LFM, Tim Rohr do not want peace and unity? They are protesting and handbilling at the Cathedral and other places to say its all Archbishop Apuron's fault. But it is their (CCOG,LFM, Tim and followers) fault for the division. You cannot have peace and unity if they are not willing to contribute to greater good of the Church.
I hope that in due time, I will get to meet with Archbishop Hon and he can hear my side to all that is happening in the diocese. There are groups but I am just a regular catholic.
In the media, 2 more so called victims will come forward. I bet Tim will be the first to know, then the attorney, then SNAP then the media. Tim is just waiting for the next move of Archbishop Hon that Tim won't like then another will come. You can all expect that. This is Tim's tactic to counter the diocese.
It seems to me, also not a member of the NCW or any other group, just simply a Catholic, that the Archdiocese has been under the sway of the NCW for some time. And that the Archbishop, as a brother of the Way, and also possibly compromised by what they knew of his past serious sins, may have been unable to extract himself.
DeleteIt seems to me that given the unbridled power exercised by the NCW in the chancery and elsewhere, that it would have been very daunting for any one individual to come forward with allegations against the Archbishop. Therefore it is entirely reasonable that there should exist some other structure of assistance for these people. The CCOG and Tim Rohr have provided this assistance. What is wrong with that? Would you prefer that the allegations remained secret? (I suppose you would, judging by your comments).
Also, as I said, the Archbishop and the NCW have had all the power and have been, up til now, able to do what they wanted, so it is again reasonable and necessary for the allegations to be made publicly, formally and repeatedly so that they couldn't be swept away under the carpet.
You can see that if the Archbishop had not been relieved, this is exactly what would have happened. We have seen the denials, the vilification of the victims, the decrees against the CCOG and others - all intended to prevent these people from being heard.
All I see here is that the NCW members just will not accept that there is a problem - and this seems to me to be indicative of the NCW itself. It is seen as infallible in its leadership and in its teaching - so these NCW members are having a very difficult time in believing what has been shown to be true. The allegations are credible and serious, and even if you don't like the way they have been made public, it is not hard to understand why they needed the support in that way.
My advice? Stop being so sure of yourself. Stop arguing against these allegations - that there is a conspiracy - simply because it challenges what the NCW tells you. Open you mind to the possibility that the NCW is NOT infallible, and that it may actually lead you astray.
Then there might be some peace and reconciliation. But if you harden your heart, as you have done so far, and if you refuse to accept that the NCW needs reform, there will never be that opportunity for healing.
Dear Anonymous at 3:51 pm,
DeleteIf you remember, the Archbishop Apuron asked and even invited the other priests to join the NCW because he found something good in it. If the NCW had all that power as you say, why would Archbishop Apuron ask and invite the other priests to the NCW. Do you think that he wanted the other priests to also share in that so-called power? Not all the priests rejected the NCW. Some of them stayed while others left. That was their choice.
As for the conspiracy, that has nothing to do with any challenges with the NCW. The allegations is not against us, but against one man - Archbishop Apuron. There is a great possibility that this is all a conspiracy simply because of the way the victims are coming out.
"If the NCW had all that power as you say, why would Archbishop Apuron ask and invite the other priests to the NCW. Do you think that he wanted the other priests to also share in that so-called power?"
DeleteDiana, of course he would because he's still the Archbishop and outranks them so power-wise he's still at the top! The ones that stayed either did so because they liked the different program or probably didn't want the trouble that comes with opposing Apuron and his bosses of the NCW.
Dear Anonymous at 5:48 pm,
DeleteThe Archbishop found something good in the NCW and wanted to share it with the rest of the other priests. Naturally, not all priests want to remain in the NCW. It was not for them. The problem was in those who left, not those who chose to stay in the NCW. Those who left became jealous of the NCW when they thought the Archbishop loved the NCW more than them. But because of their blind jealousy, they could not see that the Archbishop loves them too.
This is what Pope Francis said about Cain and Abel. Cain was jealous of his brother because he saw that Father God liked Abel's offering more than his own. However, because of his blind jealousy, he could not see that Father God also loved Cain.
A new dimension of jungle delusions is exposed by the alleged "power" of NCW. What power?! NCW is a religious organization or itinerary for lay people who want to deepen their relation to Christ and want to come closer to Him. Closer to Jesus Christ and nobody else! Is that clear? We are not interested in worldly power, we are on a journey towards Christ!
DeleteAs for Archbishop Apuron, he is a religious man in the first place. He is also walking in the NCW. But this has nothing to do with his leadership position of the Catholic Church on Guam. His decisions are that of a bishop, not of a member of the NCW. It is a serious delusion to think that the two are related in any way.
Fr. Adrian and Fr. David who used to work at the Chancery are also walking in NCW. But this fact is not related in any conceivable way to their duty they had as Chancery officials. It is a serious delusion to think otherwise. Their job and their accomplishments that are many are unrelated to the manner of their spiritual walk towards Christ in the NCW.
The removal of Fr. Paul is also unrelated to the NCW. Fr. Paul maintained a work relation with a former sexual criminal thus endangering the safety of parishioners. It was an administrative decision to end this situation at the St. Barbara Church. It is a serious delusion to claim that this had anything to do with the NCW.
The same goes for Fr. James, who mismanaged church funds and caused damages to the finances of the archdiocese. His removal from the position of rector of the cathedral had nothing to do with the NCW and its members. It is a serious delusion to think otherwise.
Finally, the sexual abuse charges are leveled towards one person who is not even an administrator at the Archdiocese of Agana anymore. These charges cannot be substantiated and therefore will die off. But it does not matter whatever changes are brought forward and it does not matter how many alleged "victims" line up for the scheduled media shows, these charges are not related to the NCW in any manner. Let me make it clear: it does not matter what the outcome of any investigation would be, it won't have anything to do with the NCW.
To think otherwise is a serious delusion and an easily recognizable pattern of lunatic thinking. We will continue our spiritual walking towards Christ in the NCW with even more determination no matter if the jungle, Rohr, the CCOG or the LFM are blue in their miserably futile plotting, anger and plain vanity.
Diana, you point out that the "allegations is not against us, but against one man - Archbishop Apuron" but the Archbishop says the allegations are attacks against the CHURCH and you agreed! Which is it? Are the allegations against one man or are the allegations against the Church?
DeleteI'm confused.
Dear Anonymous at 6:24 pm,
DeleteYes, it is also an attack on the Church. Tim Rohr told everyone not to give any money to the Church. He even said that Archbishop Apuron must be removed even if it means the fall and destruction of the Archdiocese. That is how far Tim Rohr would go to remove an Archbishop.
" Those who left became jealous of the NCW when they thought the Archbishop loved the NCW more than them. But because of their blind jealousy, they could not see that the Archbishop loves them too. "
DeleteOr, they simply realised that the NCW is aberrant and teaches heresy, is concerned with power in the Church and defies the rightful authorities. Good on them I say.
"Is that clear? We are not interested in worldly power, we are on a journey towards Christ!"
DeleteNonsense. It is clear to everyone that kiko, the gennarinis, Apuron and the other NCW in the chancery were absolutely determined to keep the power they had accumulated. The NCW structure actually is aimed at exercising power within the Church.
"His decisions are that of a bishop, not of a member of the NCW. It is a serious delusion to think that the two are related in any way.
Apuron, as a brother of the Way, is subject to the same obedience to the catechists that any member is. You are deluded if you think otherwise.
"Fr. Adrian and Fr. David who used to work at the Chancery are also walking in NCW. But this fact is not related in any conceivable way to their duty they had as Chancery officials."
Again, simply saying so, does notmake it so. Their actions show otherwise. This whole division in the Archdiocese is due to these same figures - Apuron, Adrian, David, and especially Pius. They do what is "good" for the NCW and its interests, and subsequently have to protect their own butts because of the selfish decisions they have made.
"The removal of Fr. Paul is also unrelated to the NCW."
Fr Paul and Fr James represented a threat to the NCW on Guam because they were suitable future candidates for becoming Bishop. The NCW acted to dioscredit them so as to protect their interests.
"These charges cannot be substantiated and therefore will die off."
It is you who are deluded. Let history be the judge of your silly comments.
"Let me make it clear: it does not matter what the outcome of any investigation would be, it won't have anything to do with the NCW."
Pure assertion. Methinks thou dost protest too much. In other words, you know it to be false, even as you assert it.
You sound very troubled, friend. Perhpas you should think of joining some religious group that can assist you in developing your spirituality and your relationship with God. Peace:)
Anonymous @6:22: Did you read your post after you wrote it? So now who's delusional??
DeleteThe decisions made are most definitely influenced by their membership in the NCW! Can't separate the two, ma'am/sir!
And for the record, I personally believe the membership for the most part are good people who honestly just want a closer relationship with God. It's your leadership and some of the tactics I find troublesome. Most are not interested in the worldly power...but the actions of your leaders say otherwise.
But isn't that true of any organization that has grown too large for it to be accountable? Religious, political, social--whatever the group. It's up to the people, the membership to keep it honest.
"The problem was in those who left, not those who chose to stay in the NCW. Those who left became jealous of the NCW when they thought the Archbishop loved the NCW more than them. But because of their blind jealousy, they could not see that the Archbishop loves them too".
DeleteTerrible, Diana. As a former member of the NCW I can tell you how sad are your words, since the moment of you reduce all to a jelous problem. I would recommend you to read thousands of testimonies of people who have left or have been forced to leave the Way all around the world. Despite the name of their respective bishop and their respective diocese, all those testimonies tell exactly the same things. And reactions against them from the followers of the Way are exactly as yours.
Please, notice that is a common element in cultic groups: those who left are treated as "jealous". It is always the same. Read about Maciel and his victims: they were silenced for decades because nobody will trust them, they were just "failed".
In Spanish we use to say "taller towers have fallen". If Maciel fell, who was considered a living saint by JPII, do not put your hand on fire by others.
Diana, remember the words of Pope Francis to Kiko Argüello and the NCW: they have to respect the free will of people to leave the Way if wanted to look for another thing within the Church. In fact, if Pope said that surely He had a reason to. People who do not like the Way are not enemies of the Church, although Kiko preaches if you leave the Way you are an enemy of God's will. It is not true.
Pope Francis is the Bishop of Rome and maybe He knows by his hand what happens with people who leave the Way (by their own or being expelled).
Dear Lapaz,
DeleteAll those gave the same testimony as the former Catholics who left the Catholic Church and then started bad-mouthing Catholics. If they really looked deep down as to the real reason they left, most of it had to do with personal reasons that had nothing to do with the Catholic Church. Some left because they felt the Church restricted their sexual freedom. Others left because they did not like the Church telling them to go back to their spouse and work out the problems with him/her. They felt the church was controlling their lives and prefer to divorce rather than live with their spouse. Some left because they felt the Catholic Church made them into alcoholics.
Dear Diana, do you even notice what you did then? Lapaz was answering your comments about those that left the NCW as being "jealous". You, in response speak about those that left the Catholic Church. Did you notice that? Or is it simply unconscious because of the brqainwashing you have received?
DeleteThose that leave the NCW do not automatically leave the Catholic Church, despite what you may have been told. In fact, this is exactly the point that Lapaz was making. I'll remind you:
"People who do not like the Way are not enemies of the Church, although Kiko preaches if you leave the Way you are an enemy of God's will. It is not true. "
But here, in your own words is the proof of the problem. You believe that those that leave the NCW are abandoning the Church and are therefore enemeies of the Church. I guess you would even say this of someone who remained active in faith and action within the parish. You ned to wake up and see just what damage the NCW has done to you and others.
Dear Anonymous at 10:06 pm,
DeleteYes, I did. The anti-Catholics who left the Catholic Church were no different than the anti-Neos who left the Way. The only difference between them is that one of them is bad-mouthing fellow Catholics while the other is not.
"The anti-Catholics who left the Catholic Church were no different than the anti-Neos who left the Way."
DeleteExcept "anti-Neos" who left the Way don't necessarily leave the Church, despite what you have been told, and despite what you might wish for. Do you see the distinction? Leaving the "Way" does not mean leaving the Church. At least not for thinking people.
Some of us simply decide that the NCW is wrong, and that the Church is better without it. We stay in the Church but reject your NCW.
Dear Diana, I invite you to read some NCW former members' testimonies to know why they left or were expelled. By the time more and more people who had finished the Way some years ago are leaving, they supposedly were "adults in faith", by Kiko's standards. If you think somebody stay 20 years in the Way and just leave it suddenly, without any grave reason, loosing all life (love, friendship, even family bonds), then you are absolutely blind.
DeleteYou are not so different from people who have left the Way, they were exactly as convinced (or more) as you are. You are not capable to affirm you will never leave the Way or you will be expelled.
Your words talking about those who left the Way and even those who left the Church as if you were above them and beyond good and evil.
I have never known any person who had left the Way without many suffering and pain. Nobody wants to suffer freely. I tell you there are many, many people suffering by the Way due to grave reasons of conscience. If you prefer to simplify the problem saying it is just a cold, then remember we are not talking about child games. The faith is too serious, loosing your faith it is not a joke.
Secularization is brutal in Europe. The Way has not been able to stop it. The Way does not grow more here. And you know we are threatened by yijadist fundamentalism. Very bad times for catholics, who are not interpellated by silent and pacific people with banners.
If you, neocatechumenals of Guam, consider that this is a real persecution because of your faith, please, think on catholics of Siria. Or just have a time in Europe where chapells at University are attacked by vandals.
Somebody commented here that Tim Rohr and "his people" are like illustrated French revolutionaries of XVIII century, guillotine included, against catholics. I pray for that man if his evil prosecutors are those with a simple poster with a "Kiko, go home". At least Kiko has the dream he will be killed by some fundamentalistic muslim, while his followers call the police if someone carries a banner. Please, take off your glasses, there is life and a world outside the Way.
Father God?? Where I'd that come from? Carmen??
DeleteDear Anonymous at 2:05 pm,
DeleteGod is my Father.
Why does Anon @ 6:22 PM say that Fr Adrian and Msgr David used to work at the chancery? I thought they're still there. Where did they go?
DeleteArchbishop Hon just revoked Archbishop Apuron's Decree against CCOG. Why did he do that? :(
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 1:20 pm,
DeleteHe did it to for the sake of unity and reconciliation. However, as anyone can see it did not matter. CCOG and LFM still intends to be at the doorstep of the Cathedral protesting with their signs and placards. When he rescinded the degree, this is what Tim Rohr said to Archbishop Hon:
"Also, while I suggested this in my version of today's decree, many of us find it ABSOLUTELY SCANDALOUS that Archbishop Hon spent seven days "consulting and reflecting" on the blatant abuse of power by Apuron and his cronies at the 11th hour of their Gotterdamerung. In stating so, Hon gives credence to the what should have been absolutely and immediately discredited.
I hate to think that it was my letter to the pope that actually motivated the new Apostolic Administrator to take what appears to be a grudging action and rescind what never should have seen the light of day in the first place. Unfortunately it appears to be so.
SMH."
http://www.junglewatch.info/2016/06/his-decreeand-mine-plus-mystery-decree.html
hmmmm....playing in the jungle, Diana? Thought you were told to stay out?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 6:35 pm,
DeleteThe NCW members were told by Father Pius not to go to Junglewatch, but they also teach that we have free will. :-)
Yes, Diana, as well as Kiko Argüello is your top of the top catechist and he ordered "do not use internet" even for defending the Way. Kiko Argüello didn't say that you have free will to obey him. You know it. If this war continues, you perfectly know what Kiko will say: no internet, which means no blogs, no facebook, no twitter...Since the moment you have free will to fight against Jungle, you know you have the real option of being off of this. If you didn't have free will you could not be able to be off. But you are. Each time you read and comment Tim Rohr's words, you are FREELY taking part. It is quite evident.
DeleteDear Lapaz
DeleteI have always had free will. Free will was given to me by God.
Yes, please preserve it in front of your catechists till the end. Then someday you will understand the unvaluable prize of that God's present. I pray for it.
DeleteBut Diana if Fr. Pius told NCW members not to go to Junglewatch and you do, aren't you being DISOBEDIENT, which is what you say Archbishop Apuron's reason was for removing Fr. Gofigan because he was DISOBEDIENT? I'm not sure what to think right now. It's like it's ok for you to be DISOBEDIENT because of your free will? Does that mean it's ok for others to be DISOBEDIENT because we all have free will? Help me please.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:35 pm,
DeleteFather Paul made a promise to be obedient to Archbishop Apuron upon his ordination. In the Way, we do not make any vow or promises of obedience. In every monthly convivience, we are asked if we would continue our walk.
And isn't it also true that if you do leave, you are weak and considered a heretic?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 4:11 pm,
DeleteNo.
So what you are saying is that Father Paul endangered the church community by allowing a reformed convicted rapist to volunteer at the church? Ummmm what about Apuron?
ReplyDeleteYour silence is deafening Diana.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:27 pm,
DeleteI did not say anything about Father Paul under this thread so why are you waiting for a reply from me?
The mirror has two faces. Which one are you going to choose? Choose wisely.
DeleteArchbishop Hon revoked the decree because it was wrong! :)
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 9:19 pm,
DeleteThat is not what it says in his press release. He said he rescinded it for the sake of promoting unity and reconciliation. :-)
Good. Then it means the decree didn't promote unity and reconciliation.
DeleteHow can I there be unity and peace if your not willing to promote unity and reconciliation? CCOG and all of Tim's followers do not spread peace rather they are the cause of the whole division.
ReplyDeleteLapaz, do you promote unity and peace and reconciliation? Or do you protest against unifying th diocese?
How does one go about promoting unity and peace if there are two sides that totally disagree? The two sides here absolutely believe they are being wronged by the other!
DeleteReconciliation comes through mediation---who is the mediator?
Dear Anonymous at 8:12 am,
DeleteApparently, Archbishop Hon is the mediator. He was sent by Rome to bring unity to the Church in Guam. One way he tried to promote unity is by rescinding the decree passed by Archbishop Apuron.
Anonymous @ 11:13- Some say The Neo Catechumenal Way is the cause of the division, while others, like yourself, believe that Tim Rohr and the rest are the ones acting out with anger, causing such division.... We may not see it nor do we understand it, but the Lord and only the Lord will help us all. I truly believe this is not a time for anyone to play the blame game but for all to continue in our quest to live every day in the footsteps of Christ Jesus by practicing love, obedience, and humility. Just my thoughts
ReplyDelete