Saturday, October 3, 2015

More Misconceptions From The Jungle

Regarding the Word of God, Tim Rohr stated: 

The Word of God is not “a book.” The Word of God is the word “proclaimed.”

http://www.junglewatch.info/2015/10/where-we-got-bible.html#more

The Word of God is not only the word "proclaimed" but ALSO Sacred Scripture.  In short the Holy Bible is the word of God.  According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church: 

CCC 123  Christians venerate the Old Testament as true Word of God. The Church has always vigorously opposed the idea of rejecting the Old Testament under the pretext that the New has rendered it void (Marcionism).
CCC 135  "The Sacred Scriptures contain the Word of God and, because they are inspired, they are truly the Word of God" (DV 24).
CCC 140  The unity of the two Testaments proceeds from the unity of God's plan and his Revelation. The Old Testament prepares for the New and the New Testament fulfills the Old; the two shed light on each other; both are true Word of God. 
 From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, we can conclude that the jungle teaches a false doctrine when they preach that the Holy Bible, which contain the Old and New Testament books is not the Word of God.  Furthermore, the jungle teaches the following: 


Jesus never instructed anyone to read anything, nor did he ever instruct anyone to write anything (except for John in Revelation to describe the events he saw in heaven). If Jesus wanted us to follow a book he would have left us one. He didn’t. One can argue all day long that the bible is the Word of God, but nowhere does Jesus tell anyone to put his words in a book. 

Tim Rohr teaches that Jesus never instructed anyone to read or write anything.  This is false.  Christ has always challenged people if they have read the scriptures.  By scripture, Christ meant the Old Testament writings because the New Testament was not yet written.  According to the Holy Bible: 


Matthew 21:42  Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “ ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?

Furthermore, Christ breathed on the Apostles to open their eyes so they can understand the scriptures.  According to the Holy Bible: 

Luke 24:44-45  He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.

Christ opened their minds so that they can understand the scriptures that was written about Him.  In the Old Testament, God had always commanded His people to read the Law and the Covenant.  In the New Testament, Christ did tell His Apostles to read the Old Testament Scriptures and He opened their minds so they can understand the scriptures better.  The fact that Sacred Scripture was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is evidence that God has commanded them to write His words down.

Furthermore, the Apostle Paul who had the Holy Spirit in him instructed Timothy to read the scriptures. The teachings and sayings of St. Paul comes from the Holy Spirit.  According to the Holy Bible:

1 Timothy 4:13  Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching.

Tim Rohr stated: "If Jesus wanted us to follow a book he would have left us one.

God did leave us a book.  The first books He left were the Old Testament writings, which they find to be inspired and were read in the synagogues.  In fact, Jesus Himself read from those books.  In the Old Testament, God gave the Law to Moses, and this book was called the "Word of God (See 2 Chronicles 34:14-21).  Later, He gave us the New Testament books, which was canonized by the Church.  God is the author of Sacred Scripture because everything in Sacred Scripture is "God breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16).  Again, bear in mind that whenever the Apostles spoke of "scripture" they were referring to the books of the Old Testament in the Septuagint Bible.  According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church: 

CCC 105   God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."
CCC 136   God is the author of Sacred Scripture because he inspired its human authors; he acts in them and by means of them. He thus gives assurance that their writings teach without error his saving truth (cf. DV 11). 

Tim Rohr stated:  One can argue all day long that the bible is the Word of God, but nowhere does Jesus tell anyone to put his words in a book. 

The Holy Bible tells us that there were things that Jesus did that were not written down (John 21:25), so how does Tim Rohr know that Christ never told His Apostles to write it down especially in light of the fact that He challenges the Pharisees and scribes whether they read the scriptures and the fact that He opened the mind of His Apostles to understand scripture?  Contrary to what Tim Rohr teaches, the Catholic Church does teach that the Holy Bible IS the word of God as shown in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and Catholic Encyclopedia.  According to the Catholic Encyclopedia (the bold is mine): 

"The Bible not only contains the word of God; it is the word of God. The primary author is the Holy Ghost, or, as it is commonly expressed, the human authors wrote under the influence of Divine inspiration." It was declared by the Vatican Council (Sess. III, c. ii) that the sacred and canonical character of Scripture would not be sufficiently explained by saying that the books were composed by human diligence and then approved by the Church, or that they contained revelation without error. They are sacred and canonical "because, having been written by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, that have God for their author, and as such have been handed down to the Church". The inerrancy of the Bible follows as a consequence of this Divine authorship. Wherever the sacred writer makes a statement as his own, that statement is the word of God and infallibly true, whatever be the subject-matter of the statement.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02543a.htm


In summary, God wrote down His words in a book using human beings, and handed it down to His Church.  

According to Tim Rohr:  What came first, the Church or the Book? Since Jesus didn’t leave us a bible, how did the first 4 centuries of Christians get by without it?

The first 4 centuries of Christians were able to get by with the Old Testament writings, which they found inspired by God.  While it is true that the Bible  did not exist until the end of the fourth century, the Apostles of Christ DID use the writings of the Old Testament TOGETHER with what the Holy Spirit inspired them to teach.  Before the Church was born, written scripture was ALREADY in use to correct, teach, and train in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).   In fact, the Septuagint, which is the oldest Greek version of the Old Testament of the Bible was used by the Apostles and the Early Christians of the first 4 centuries.   
 
The one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church also teaches that the center of our faith is not ONLY on the Bible alone.  It is not ONLY on a book, but on a living Word who is a person. The Catholic Church teaches that the "Word of God" (the person) precedes and surpasses the Holy Bible.  The "Word of God" is a person and has a name.  His name is Jesus Christ.....the Word made flesh and dwelt among men.
 

18 comments:

  1. Sorry, but I think you have a reading problem. You missed Tim's last sentence, most likely deliberarely, because it doesn't fit with your delusions:

    "Catholics do not believe that the bible is the Word of God because the bible says so. Catholics believe that the bible is the Word of God because the Catholic Church says so. "

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    1. Dear Anonymous at 9:48 am,

      You misunderstood. I correct Tim's errors. By demeaning scripture, Tim did not see the Old Testament scriptures as the word of God. Tim believes that the Bible ONLY became the Word of God at the end of the fourth century when the Church canonized it. One can see that as he goes through his explanation. The Old Testament scriptures of the Septuagint Bible was already viewed by the Early Christians as God's Word handed down to them from the time of Moses.

      Tim believes that the Church is the ONLY authority. This is false teaching. The Catholic Church have taught that Sacred Scripture in the Holy Bible is authoritative, but it is not the ONLY authority as the Protestants believe. The Church is also authoritative. The Church follows Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

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    2. Diana,
      Scripture itself testifies that "The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Trurh" 1Tim 3:15, Scripture by itself is not self intrepreting, unless there is a competant interpreter, It has to be interpreted by the Church. The story of Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:26 ~ is a prime example of this.

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    3. Dear RAM,

      This is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

      CCC 95 "It is clear therefore that, in the supremely wise arrangement of God, sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium of the Church are so connected and associated that one of them cannot stand without the others. Working together, each in its own way, under the action of the one Holy Spirit, they all contribute effectively to the salvation of souls."

      Scripture testifies that the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth. And that Pillar and Foundation of Truth NEVER demeaned or belittled scripture in the way Tim Rohr has done. Rather, the Church stated in its catechism that Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium of the Church are so connected and associated that one cannot stand without the other. This is why the Protestant belief of "sola scriptura" is incorrect and Tim's man-made doctrine of sola traditio is also incorrect and goes AGAINST Catholic teaching.

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    4. Diana,
      What I interpret Tim was saying is that The Bible as we know it today is given to us by the Church that Christ founded, Tradition had to be lived and experienced before it was penned in the pages of manuscripts. that is the NT. Now it is the Living Sacred Tradition that decided what books both old and new were inspired of God. Fortunately the Septuigant which contained both the proto canonical as well as the duterocanonical books quoted by the NT writers are what the church decided are inspired by God. This was not always the case, as one Catholic in St. Jerome did not accept the duterocanonical as inspired books. All I am saying is someone decided what books are inspired by God, and it was the Church, the Living Sacred Tradition, and she is competant because scripture tells us that "The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth". Scripture never said the bible was the sole authority. But Scriptures also says in another passage that The Church, Christ's body is the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way. Eph 5:22 & 23.

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    5. Dear RAM,

      That may be what you mistakenly interpret Tim to say, but this is what Tim ACTUALLY stated in his own words:

      "Jesus never instructed anyone to read anything, nor did he ever instruct anyone to write anything (except for John in Revelation to describe the events he saw in heaven). If Jesus wanted us to follow a book he would have left us one. He didn’t. One can argue all day long that the bible is the Word of God, but nowhere does Jesus tell anyone to put his words in a book. "

      "What came first, the Church or the Book? Since Jesus didn’t leave us a bible, how did the first 4 centuries of Christians get by without it?"

      Please re-read my entry post again because I refuted what he ACTUALLY stated.

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    6. So according to Mr. Rohr; the Catholic Church can survive without the Bible?

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    7. Dear J. Bautista,

      According to Mr. Rohr, God did not tell anyone to read scripture or write it. And he thinks that the first 4 centuries of Christians were not using any scripture.

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    8. There were no scriptures in the first four centuries that we know now. There were written manuscripts but no canonical writings yet. It was to be determined later by the church. So what did they have. Stories, narratives, letters from church leaders, gospels (more than 4). Jesus did not order his disciples to write anything down. Jesus did not have blue print of the Church. It was a historical development.

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    9. Dear Anonymous at 11:00 pm,

      So, when Jesus challenged the Pharisees as to whether they read the scriptures in Matthew 21:42, what scriptures did you think he was referring to? Are you saying that Jesus was WRONG in calling them "scriptures?"

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    10. So according to Mr. Rohr;

      Moses and the ten commandments have no significance; worship only God, to honor our parents, and to keep the sabbath; do not commit idolatry, blasphemy, murder, adultery, theft, dishonesty, and coveting.

      Tim Rohr stated: "If Jesus wanted us to follow a book he would have left us one.

      Last time I heard; it was God who wrote these on stone tablets himself.

      I guess some people want a copy of the first edition to believe.




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  2. During recent K-57 call in interviews; Mr. Rohr had several options about the Pope.

    humility....Pope Francis actions to date maybe has been all for show and not substance;

    Pope Francis may not know what he is doing.

    Mr. Rohr also commented on the Popes Francis actions to date; how some of Pope Francis' actions and decisions have contradicted Canon Law.

    He also voiced not so supportive comments about Saint John Paul and Pope Benedict.

    Mr. Rohr is a very opinionated man............is my opinion.

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  3. Why don't you tell Tim himself and correct him in the jungle?

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    1. According to Mr. Rohr; the last four Popes may be the ones who need correction.

      Might as well include the majority of Cardinals who voted for them.

      Let us also include two Saints.

      I don't think Mr. Rohr wants correction.

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  4. Dear Anonymous at 11:55 am,

    Tim Rohr is a radical who already made up his mind to destroy the NCW and no amount of correction can change his mind. My intent on publishing this entry post is to show the world how Tim distorted and misinterpreted the teachings of the one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church.

    Protestants are incorrect when they preach sola scriptura (Scriptures alone). Tim's man-made doctrine of sola traditio (Tradition alone) is also false and a heresy. The Catholic Church follows and recognize BOTH Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

    CCC 80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal." Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own "always, to the close of the age".

    CCC 81 "Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit." "And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching."

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  5. Catholic Chirch is built on scripture and tradition Diana. Scripture tradition must be held in balance.

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    1. Dear Anonymous at 6:09 pm,

      That is what I said. See my comments at 6:00 pm and at 6:13 pm.

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  6. Mr. Rohr - Diana +

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