Yes, but the problem with this attitude is that you have to make a judgement on who is a "radical". If someone disagrees with your point of view, does that make them a "radical"? If someone is not in your "group", does that give a moral reason to exclude them from discussion?It seems to me that if you equate difference of opinion or diversity of understanding with "radicals" or with those who are somehow supposed to be "impeding on how he (J Bautista) wishes to live out the Catholic Faith", you run the risk of isolating yourself more, and being subject to more reason to be considered cultish.By the way, in what way is J Bautista actually "impeded"? Can you explain this more fully, as Jokers Wild relies on this as a reason to shut out the "radicals".Finally, is the reason you are making a point of highlighting Jokers Wild's statement due to the fact that he is a leader in the local NCW community?
Dear Anonymous at 5:12 pm, I think we define "radicals" differently. Radicals are not those who disagree with me. They are the ones set out to destroy at any cost. For example, the group ISIS is radical. Some people in the NCW already know that the jungle wants to oust the Archbishop and put in Monsignor James who is against the Way. As to your last question, I do not know who Jokers Wild is and he does not know me.
AnonymousOctober 5, 2015 at 5:12 PMI asked a very simple question.And if I choose follow Jesus Christ and walk in the Neocatechumenal Way; what gives anyone justification to criticize?Anonymous......do you see the word "impede" anywhere in this question? How can you change the context of the question to add substance to your comments?
Thankyou, but that doesn't really answer my question, Diana. This is how Jokers Wild defines those that are not "radicals":"We can tell them apart because when we explain to them that the NCW is in all its ways Catholic, they move on."He then defines the "radicals" as those "who even after explaining to them why and how we have come to this point, they are not satisfied. "As I see it, this is prone to problems. If someone were to ask a valid question but get an unsatisfactory answer, or a reply than wasn't really an answer to the question asked, they would be justified in not "moving on", wouldn't they?There are still many unanswered questions about the NCW, and each time they are asked, an unsatisfactory answer is most often given. One of the most obvious is "where can one find copies of the NCW catechetical directory which has been approved for publication?"The reply to this question is invariably "You don't need to see it. Trust us, its all ok". And while Joker's Wild might think that answer is sufficient to "explain to them that the NCW is in all its ways Catholic", most people would not agree that it is enough. I really don't believe it would take a "radical" to want more than that.
Dear Anonymous at 11:16 pm, They are not satisfied even after explaining it to them because the only satisfaction they want is the destruction of the NCW. The NCW has nothing to do with them no more than the Knights of Columbus has anything to do with me. The NCW is not for everyone. So, why do they want to destroy the NCW? Our celebrations have no impact on them.
Dear J Bautista at 11.10pm. Please take note that the word "impede" was used by Joker's Wild in the quoted comment in the original post above. It is rather interesting that you take exception to the characterisation of your question by the use of this word, as it seems to be the lynch pin for Jokers comment.Dear J Bautista, no-one is criticizing your choice to "follow Jesus Christ" through the Neocatechumenal Way. The criticism is levelled at the NCW's practises and teachings, not at you personally.
Dear Diana at 11.39pm. "They are not satisfied even after explaining it to them because the only satisfaction they want is the destruction of the NCW."In the example I gave, regarding the catechetical directory, there has never been an explanation provided, as far as I can recall. All I can remember being said is that there is no need for anyone to have access to them. In a church where all the teachings are freely given an available, and in the context where the relevant Vatican dicastries have approved these books for publication (that is , to be made public), you could possibly understand why merely saying that you shouldn't have access is not a sufficient explanation at all. The "radical" position in relation to these books is keeping them secret, as that is quite contrary to the practise of the wider Church, and contradicts the approval for publication."The NCW has nothing to do with them no more than the Knights of Columbus has anything to do with me."Forgive me, but that is either a naïve or a deliberately ignorant statement. 1 Corinthians 12 states: "But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it."The Catechism likewise: (791) "...The unity of the Mystical Body produces and stimulates charity among the faithful: "From this it follows that if one member suffers anything, all the members suffer with him, and if one member is honored, all the members together rejoice."In other words, even if one is not a member of a particular group within the Church, the unity of the body of Christ means that each affects the others. What happens in the NCW, or in the Knights of Columbus for that matter, is absolutely our concern, so long as we believe in and love the Church."So, why do they want to destroy the NCW?"You seem to be fixated on this "destroy the NCW". Catholics want nothing more from the NCW than from any other Catholic entity - that it should be consistent with the tenets of the faith, that it should act in accordance with the lawful authority of the Church and that what it teaches should be open and available for anyone to consider if they wish."Our celebrations have no impact on them."Again, this is similar to the second point above. Even as a member of the NCW, I would be very concerned if you heard of the Blessed Sacrament being desecrated or treated poorly in another Catholic setting, for example in the "ordinary" Sunday Mass. Would you not think it was your concern if that happened? Would you not do everything you possibly could to ensure that the inappropriate acts were dealt with immediately? I would be worried if you didn't care. What about if in other "celebrations" of the wider Church there was a recognition or celebration of same-sex unions? Surely you would say that these celebrations "impacted" on you?The concerns on the NCW liturgy may not be so stark, but nor are they hypothetical. You know that there legitimate concerns that the NCW has no permission to make variations outside those things explicitly referenced in the Statutes. You have said any number of times that you believe there is a private verbal permission to do these things, but you must surely understand that not everyone can trust the NCW leadership like you do, and given that the Church never gives private, verbal permissions on changes in the liturgy, you surely understand that these concerns that some people hold are not without reason. Given that what the NCW does in its celebrations actually does affect and have impact on those who are outside the NCW, the best thing to be done would be for the NCW to conform closely to the explicit, public instructions it has been given, so as to avoid these ongoing problems.
Dear Anonymous at 11:21 pm, Those books were already approved by the Vatican; therefore, you should have no problems with it. Also, what harm has the NCW actually caused? People are free to join and free to leave in the NCW. I see mission families and itinerants spreading the Gospel all over the world. There is evidence of that.
See, and there it is again. The non-answer:"Those books were already approved by the Vatican; therefore, you should have no problems with it."The "problem" I have with it , is that it is secret. And it is secret despite the Vatican approving it for publication. I may or may not have other problems with it. But I couldn't tell you that because it is kept hidden. No other teaching of the Church is kept hidden. That bothers me. It should bother you.But instead, your non-answer is "trust me (who hasn't seen it), its all fine. You don't need to see it".I wish you could understand how un-Catholic that attitude actually is.
Whoa, Diana. Do you think blabbing openly about Msgr. James as bishop is helpful? It is not. shame.
Dear Anonymous at 12:53 pm, Explain to me HOW not seeing those books bothers you? If the NCW is practicing something that is in-Catholic, I would know. Explain to me HOW our consuming the Body of Christ together with the priests is un-Catholic especially in light of the fact that the Early Christians did the same thing thousands of years ago? Explain to me HOW "trust me" impacts your personal worship in the parish, considering that you are not an NCW member?
The issue is so obvious; people in the Way speak in a language that can only be understood by experience.This is not to say that we are better than people who attend mass only on Sundays.It does not mean that we are more faithful or closer to God. It is the simple reality that we do not know anything but through the Grace and Spirit of God.How can we explain how 400 girls / women in the Way stand to answer the call to be nuns.How can 200 boys / men in the Way stand to answer the call to be priest.and how the heck can 1,000 families with children answer the call to serve the Church; happy to sell their possessions; drag their children to a country where they do not know the language; they do not have a job. Their hope only that God provides and the Spirits sustains.How many more girls, boys, men; women and families will stand and answer the call to serve at the next World Youth Day in Poland?A Catholic all my life;having read the Bible for many; many years and thinking that I knew something; yet in reality did not know anything.You are right Diana; the Way is not for everyone but it is right for me and my family.God willing
Dear J.Bautista @ 6:49--No, we can't explain all the numbers you related. Much like we can't explain the numbers that also believed and followed their leader w/o question in Jonestown, Uganda, Waco, the Mooneys in Korea, Scientology followers, etc. etc. Their followers, like you illustrate, were/are just as zealous in their belief, and just as defensive.
Dear Anonymous at 7:34 am, There is a big difference in those numbers. Those cults you mentioned were only a few people. The NCW has 1.5 million members. The founders of those cults were sexually a using women and young girls. The founder of the NCW is not accused of any criminal or sexual behavior. Those cults did not produce any fruits. The NCW produced priests, nuns, and missionaries. Those cults you mentioned Imploded and came to an end. The NCW, on the other hand, increased and continues to increase. You are comparing apples and oranges.
Scientology alive and well! Also, one would argue the Mormons in the same ilk. Granted, the first ones I listed were the extremes and you are correct that they 'imploded'.
Dear Diana at 9:19AM--My sister and her family are temporarily in South America doing missionary work for their church (not Catholic). She asked me a question that I'd like to pose to you: Why does Guam have seminarians coming from South America when there is a great need for priests there. Are there no Seminaries in Brazil, Colombia, etc?
Dear Anonymous at 10:15 am, Statistics show that the number of priests increased in the Americas. According to the weblink below: "The number of bishops in the world increased by 56 units, to 5,002. Every continent, except Oceania (which is down by 4) registered an increase. The total number of priests in the world increased by 1,142 units, to 409,166. The only continents which registered a decrease was again Europe (-1,664), whereas figures grew in Africa (+ 953), America (+ 659), Asia (+ 1.120), and Oceania (+ 74). Diocesan priests increased by 1,576 units, reaching a total of 274,007 with increases in Africa (+ 821), America (+ 811), Asia (+ 746), and Oceania (+ 67) and a drop in Europe (- 869)."http://www.speroforum.com/a/42113/Statistics-show-worldwide-increase-of-Catholics-and-Catholic-priests#.VhS335W6HIU
Dear Anonymous at 10:01 am, Scientology and the Mormons are a religious group. They are in the same category as Buddhism, Shintoism, Jews, and other non-Catholic religions. Are you going to tell me that all non-Catholics are cults???? This kind of thinking is what we call extremist and radical. They are no different that the Muslim radical ISIS who murder Christians because they saw the Christians as infidels. This is the same as seeing all non-Catholics as "cults."
AnonymousOctober 7, 2015 at 7:34 AMDear J.Bautista @ 6:49--No, we can't explain all the numbers you related. Much like we can't explain the numbers that also believed and followed their leader w/o question in Jonestown, Uganda, Waco, the Mooneys in Korea, Scientology followers, etc. etc.I too cannot explain or relate to the sects mentioned; I was speaking specific about the NCW brothers and sisters who are living their faith.If you do not understand how people live in Spirit with their faith; let us be honest. 1.5 people in the Way and growing. Diana has better access to factual information than I.Best that I can do is google how many members of the Mickey Mouse Club.
Can anyway name the radicals ?I listed eight radicals commenting in Jungle.
12:34 may we see the list? Want to see if I'm on it. A LIST. That's sounds dangerous.
12.34am. Who is on this list? It sounds very unprofessional to me .
Where is this list? I want to see if my name is on it?
The problem is that you are very actively recruiting members from within the church. Do you not think tha transparency would be appropriate when representing the Catholic Church?
Dear Anonymous at 1:18am, You mean like the Knights of Columbus, Legion of Mary, and those Christian Mothers recruiting from within the Church? We have also recruited non-Catholics and brought back those who have never attended Chirch. Why would you want to deprive people of changing their lives for the better and getting closer to Christ?
you fail to complete this sentence. Once they are recruited and formed in a community, they stay apart from from parish...unlike the other organizations.
Dear Anonymous at 11:44 am, Once they are recruited and formed in a community, they build up their parish by volunteering to become Eucharistic ministers, Lectors, CCDteachers, parish council members, alter servers, and choir members of their parish. Many of them even volunteer to clean and maintain parish grounds. Some of them even attend daily Mass because they have fallen in love with Christ.
Diana When people you don't even know hate you, that's when you know you're the best.'' keep up the good work...:-)
Who exactly is motivating force behind working for a new Archbishop? Dynamics of material communications indicates it is not Tim Rohr alone..Possibly individuals within our church? Priests included.
Intrigues surrounding Archbishop Apuron make it very difficult for us regular Catholics to really believe in him as our spiritual guide. He may well be an honest man but the intrigues always leave a question mark about him now.. This blog should do more to defend the Archbishop. Many of the published articles are not important to readers. What is important today is defending the Archbishop. I don't see this happening.
Dear Anonymous at 5:29 pm, This blog defends both the Archbishop and the NCW, which is supported by the Archbishop and the Pope.
Ah, the Pope!
Tim Rohr's people - Thomas "Tommy" Tanaka:https://oig.justice.gov/special/s0606a/final.pdfhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_TanakaThis report describes the Office of the Inspector General's (OIG) investigation regarding allegations raised by Frederick Black, the former interim U.S. Attorney for Guam and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI). Black alleged that he was replaced as the interim U.S. Attorney because he called for an investigation of Washington, D.C., lobbyist Jack Abramoff and also because he supported applying federal immigration law to the CNMI, a position Abramoff opposed. (page 1)The FBI's August 28 memorandum summarized the "derogatory" information revealed by the investigation up to that point. The memorandum noted that, as Black had said, Rapadas's uncle Tommy Tanaka was one of the subjects of a broad public corruption investigation by the Guam USAO’s office. The memorandum also stated that the FBI intended to conduct further interviews in connection with an allegation relating to Rapadas's personal conduct, the alleged conflict of interest involving Tanaka, and an allegation that Rapadas knew of alleged "cover-ups" at the Guam Attorney General's office related to Tanaka and Gutierrez. (page 24)Wilson said that after the Rapadas appointment, the Guam investigative team continued to be focused on the case against certain Gutierrez Administration officials and others connected to Gutierrez, including Tanaka. The Gutierrez Administration investigation ultimately led to the Shinohara's conviction for conspiracy, bank fraud, and money laundering, and Tanaka's conviction for misprision of a felony. (page 31)We found that after Rapadas was appointed, the USAO continued to pursue the investigation into the Gutierrez Administration under the direction of Public Integrity Section Chief Hillman, who acted as U.S. Attorney for Guam due to Rapadas's recusal from the case. As previously mentioned, those investigations resulted in the conviction of both Shinohara and Tanaka in 2003. (page 33)
Dear Diana @ 4:18PM,thank you for the link and the stats. I sent to my sister and she responded "not where she's at"--one of the poorest areas where they are helping build homes. The local Catholics complain that they are short priests and only see a traveling one every couple of months. She thinks Nuns in the area say the mass for them. Anyway, thanks again.
Nuns do not ever say Mass. She must be talking about conducting Communion service. Which is fine. Clarification is important in this case.
Dear Diana--So back to Anonymous' @ 10:51's original question: Are there no Seminaries there? What do they come all the way here?
Dear Anonymous at 8:28 am, There are 429 seminaries in Brazil. A true Catholic priest does not consider their country their home because they belong to the Catholic Church and is obedient to the Pope who sends them out into the world to spread the Gospel. A true Catholic priest knows that Heaven is his true home. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_seminaries#Brazil