Burke, in an Associated Press report, said he aims to wrap up the Apuron investigation by the summer. The report also said Burke denied he had been sent to Guam as "punishment," telling Italy's Mediaset it was normal for cardinals to take on extra jobs in their areas of expertise.I had assumed that the trial would take years, but Cardinal Burke aimed to wrap everything up by the summer, which is a few months away. If Archbishop Apuron is found guilty, then he will be removed and Archbishop Byrnes will automatically become the Archbishop of Agana. The title "Coadjutor" will be dropped.
On the other hand, if Archbishop Apuron is found not guilty, then there will be another trial. It will be a civil trial. Archbishop Apuron will be filing a defamation lawsuit against ALL his accusers. While it is true that there is already a civil trial filed by the four alleged victims, Archbishop Apuron will be filing his own defamation lawsuit. We simply have to wait for the result of the canonical trial.
I Hope he Starts With Tim Rohr Sue! Sue! Sue!! all the Trouble he Started.
ReplyDelete@ Anon. 12:33. Tim is at the top of the list.
DeleteWe have known from the beginning that shared greed and lust for money made Tim Rohr and Joelle Casteix strange bedfellows. Now we see that their unholy alliance is producing sour fruit.
ReplyDeleteThe Jungle tries to explain away the big fiasco they had with the visit of the Vatican tribunal. Not allowing Cardinal Burke to hear the complaints was a major blow inflicted on themselves. All their plans and plots were upset by atty Lujan who is apparently not working for Guam Catholics but for mainland liberals.
The fact is that the secular enemies of the Catholic Church on the mainland discovered Tim Rohr's group as an excellent surrogate to implant discord and animosity into a 85% Catholic archdiocese of 180 thousand inhabitants! They jumped on the opportunity offered by the advance of radicalism at JW. They fooled the shortsighted Guam conservatives into buying and promoting a wicked agenda of damaging the Catholic Church. Ultimately, on the ashes of a financially ruined archdiocese, they want to eliminate religion from the island altogether!
The action of David Lujan revealed that it is NOT the traditionalists who are in control, but it is the extreme liberals who go directly against any kind of church authority, against Vatican and against the Pope! Lujan is taking his order from them! These mainland troublemakers are in control of JW, CCOG, LFM, all the naive radicals who think they are just "saving the church". Well, they don't! They do the opposite. They are following the schemes of the liberals who use them as puppets to achieve their destructive goals.
What a foolishness to believe that atty Lujan is a Catholic! Why would he be? He is an ally of the secular SNAP and Casteix, the vilest atheists on earth whose only business on the soil of Guam is to cause irreparable damage to and bleed out our Catholic life.
The Catholic Church, our Catholic Church can never be damaged. Even if there are no buildings left, we will always be able to celebrate the mass.
DeleteAnon 8:12 am
DeleteAgreed. As a long as someone with the same spirit of Christ and love for the enemy exists, the Catholic Church continues to live.
Rohr is weeping crocodile tears now that they allowed atty Lujan to back stab them. That was truly a major blow on their pride and self image. The same old story is re-surfacing again: the conceited was fooled by the smart to do the dirty job. They were baited by their own sense of self-importance and paranoia. It was an easy scoring by the book, really!
DeleteJW, CCoG and LFM still believe they did something great and they are achieving justice. Lol! Well, the events show this to be self deception, pure and simple. What they claim could not possibly be more far from the truth! David Lujan, the arm of wealthy and powerful liberal profit groups from the mainland schooled the whole gang of so-called "traditionalists" about the true meaning of anti-Catholic activism. It is money, money and again, just money! JW, CCoG and LFM became slaves of money.
The only question is how Rohr will try to back pedal and backtrack from his loser's position to save his face and maintain the appearance of a well behaving Catholic citizen. Well, he is not one! We have to be there and point out at every turn how big fake he is and how big damage he caused to the Catholic Church by his feeble minded stubborn foolishness!
Repent, Timmy! It is not yet too late for you to do the right thing! Lenten offers an excellent opportunity to repent, apologize to Archbishop Apuron and change your heart back to God.
Notice for the first time that no photos of their protest last Sunday was published in JW. There was no mention of it in any of the news. Let's hope that many of the manamkos wised up and stop their protesting.
DeleteAnonymous @ 12:03 PM, it seems that the pix from last Sunday's picket were included in today's JW post: http://www.junglewatch.info/2017/03/posted-by-jose-m.html#more
DeleteAs you can see there are pix from today and another link to the pix from last week. The manamkos are not the snowflakes you'd like them to be. Some have survived WW2, others have survived the Korean and Vietnam Wars. So they're going to hang in there as long as it takes.
The good news is that the number of protesters have dwindled down a lot. Many of them probably felt disillusioned after the the alleged victims refused to testify. What good is holding up a "defrock Apuron" sign when Atty. Lujan made it possible for Apuron to be found not guilty?
DeleteTruth does not require numbers. Whether one or one hundred are holding up "defrost Apuron" signs, he still is disgraced, his victims still exist, the abuse still happened.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:38 am,
DeleteBecause the ALLEGED victims refused to testify, there is now some doubt to their credibility, which explains why the protesters have decreased in number.
The abuse that Apuron did to the former altar servers happened whether a majority believes it or not. That is why it is futile to try to gain the favor of men, God always knows the truth. Your mission to seek consensus is a lost cause.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:31 AM,
DeleteYou are correct that only God knows the truth. However, it appears that you make yourself equal to God when you already judged Archbishop Apuron without due process.
Diana @ 10:00 AM just so you know we don't doubt the credibility of Apuron's sex abuse victims. The reason why you think the protesters have decreased in number is because several of us are off island. Since we don't have the power of bilocation like St. Padre Pio did all we can do right now is join our prayers to theirs. And like 8:38 AM Anonymous pointed out Truth does not require numbers. I'll be back marching when my family & I return to Guam.
DeleteBTW: I got word that Lou Klitzkie wasn't there on Sunday because she was sick. But people still showed up.
We are all praying this can be over soon. No matter the outcome God will always make justice.
ReplyDeleteRohr is crying out at his blog. "Oh mom, this is not the horse I wanted!" Well, it might be too late to realize that. But it is never late to repent, apologize, return to the flock and help to fight off the marauders he unleashed on the innocent and unsuspecting Catholic faithful of Guam!
ReplyDeleteRepent? Apuron has been investigated at least since 2008. Rohr's only role was to expose the alleged abuse. This is not about ncw, it's about Apuron's alleged abuse. Stop making this about Rohr and wake up. You're only living in denial otherwise.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:08 am,
DeleteIt is about the NCW. Tim Rohr has said many times in his blog that he intends to take down Kiko Arguello and the NCW. The NCW was even used as the reason why Father Paul was removed, which was false. Father Paul was removed because of disobedience. Archbishop Apuron told him to remove the convicted sex offender from working in the Parish. Father Paul removed the sex offender from employment, but allowed him to do the same work in the Parish as a volunteer.
The ncw may be a part of the conversation, but the alleged abuse is the real story. Remove the ncw from the story, even remove Rohr from the story, the alleged abuse still exists.
DeleteBy the way, Archbishop Apuron allowed this man you keep digging up, to work there when he was first released from prison back in the 90s. Why do you always omit that major fact?
The man was released from prison and went straight to work at Santa Barbara as a condition of his parole. If anything, he was more of a danger to society AT THAT time. As history shows, the man had repented and had turned his life around. He was no longer the danger you claim he is as he was when Archbishiop Apuron first approved of his employment back in the late 90's. Fr. Gofigan was not even a priest back then.
I find it disheartening that you keep bringing up this man, an absolutely repentant man, as a means to further your argument. Although he was found guilty of his crimes from the past, he (and his family) is an innocent pawn in this dangerous game you are playing in attempting to rally people to your side. This is not what we are taught in the Catholic Church. Please find another argument and stop using this guy to prop up your argument. No matter what anyone else is doing, your own action and words are unchristian.
Dear Anonymous at 11:06 am,
DeleteI do not think that Archbishop Apuron allowed the convicted sex offender to work at the Dededo parish. The pastor is in charge of the Parish and responsible for hiring individuals for his parish. If Archbishop Apuron was the one who allowed Lastimosa to work there, then what was the purpose for asking Father Paul to remove him?
Yes, Lastimosa repented just like Father Brouillard also repented. Nevertheless, my focus was not on Lastimosa but on Father Paul's hypocrisy.
Dear Anon @ 11:06am,
DeleteLast time I checked, Lastimosa is not on trial. In fact none of the names you mentioned are on trial. However Apuron IS on trial. Those names are involved in this conspiracy, so those names must be brought to light to get to the truth.
Maybe you want to disregard people's involvement to avoid the truth. Maybe because the only truth you choose to agree with is the narrative Rohr has fed you. It is obvious, when looking at the issue from outside that Rohr's motivation is not just the sexual allegations. If you analyze what has happened up to know, Rohr had a quarrel with the NCW before any allegations came to light. In fact the law that was passed and the allegations that came forward seem more as an indirect attack to the NCW, the Seminary and all of it's members.
He has invented narratives about most of it's members, and for people who personally know these members and know that these narratives are absolute lies, they know that this is more than just about sexual abuse.
If it were just about sexual abuse, wouldn't he be looking to make justice against Archbishop Apuron? Why has he concocted a whole scheme to involve the Catholic Church? Why are they suing the Catholic Church? FOR MILLIONS of dollars! Why is it that once he has realized the Catholic Church defends the NCW he has made it into an all out war against the Catholic Church? Isn't it much easier to fight the accused, instead of having to lift the statute of limitation.
Do not be mistaken, Rohr invented and started your so called dangerous game. He has played it masterfully, and continues to do so. YOU are living proof of his mastery of this game and his lies. However thanks be to God, the truth always catches up!
Anon @ 10:50 PM.
DeleteYou obviously have a hangup with Rohr. I am stating simple facts. The alleged abuse exists whether or not Rohr exists in the story. You keep wanting it to be about Rohr to distract from the allegations, but it just doesn't hold water.
The fact is, there are credible allegations of abuse and everything else are just a means to steer people away from that fact.
You are so deeply embedded with the NCW that you cannot see past your own nose. Archbishop Apuron has serious allegations made against him and you want to make it about you.
Diana @ 8:32 AM as Anonymous @ 8:08 PM pointed out the investigation into Apuron started in 2008. That's 5 years before Junglewatch and 8 years before the first public statement about the sexual abuse by Apuron. It may have been about the NCW for Tim Rohr. But it's clear that Apuron has been the subject of a Vatican investigation since 2008 which doesn't match your mindset that "It is about the NCW." Anthony Apuron has been in trouble with the Vatican for 9 years and the NCW Cardinals have managed to bury the charges until those pesky manamkos started picketing. Now the case of Anthony Apuron has to be managed.
DeleteI don't care whether or not Apuron gets defrocked. I just want him GONE!
Dear Anonymous at 4:18 pm,
DeleteWe do not even know what was opened up in 2008. The Vatican never said what it was. 2008 was also the time the Statutes were passed, and it was the time the way we receive Communion was changed.
Diana @ 6:50 AM, 2008 was the year when Fr. Ray Cepeda was defrocked but there were rumors that Apuron offered Cepeda up as a way to distract attention away from his own sexual misbehaviors.
Delete2008 was also the year when Apuron wrote letters to 3 Filipino priests threatening them to serve NCW communities or leave the Archdiocese. These letters led to the first public protest against the NCW by parishioners from Mongmong-Toto-Maite, long before Tim Rohr/Junglewatch, long before CCOG/LFM/SNM.
Dear Anonymous at 8:15 am,
DeleteBecause there are so many speculations as to what 2008 meant, it is best to leave it alone and focus on what we do know. Speculations and rumors do not foster unity.
What you think you know so far kind of lees than adequate. Put nicely.
DeleteDear anon @ 12:26
DeleteThe quarrel with the NCW existed before the alleged abuse. The narrative against the NCW, it's leader, and it's members was posted on JW before any alleged abuse was released. It was only after the fiasco with the seminary property that Rohr turned JW into a full blown marketing scheme to destroy AAA while at the same time the Alleged abuse came out to the public.
YOU are the one who wants to distract from Rohr's real motives. His motives have always been money, and AAA happens to be an obstacle who got in his way.
Sorry... I beg to differ... this is the time to display that we ARE Christians... and not like them... if Bishop Apuron and the NCW forgives Tim Rohr, I believe that it will leave no shadow of a doubt that Tim is... well... what he is... and that the Bishop and the NCW are... well... what they are.
ReplyDeleteI know it requires divine help... heroic virtue... but to have Apuron return as Archbishop, to have PDN and Tim acknowledge publicly that they were wrong, would make Guam the Diamond of the Pacific... which in my opinion, it has always been.
Every time I read the story of Jacob and his son Joseph, it brings me tears of joy for being a Christian. Before dying, Jacob writes a letter to his son Joseph, to make sure that he forgives his 11 brothers for all the hell that they made Joseph go through... and in tears Joseph forgives all of them, saying that it was all providential. This act of forgiveness has great potential... only if seen with the eyes of faith. It would turn everyone and the future of Guam around.
However, if the Bishop decides to sue the socks off of Tim Rohr, that would also be justice and I wouldn't lose any sleep... in all truth, as Christians we know that Divine virtue cannot be demanded or expected of any individual (not even of the Pope), it is a divine gift... and this precious gift is only given if the victim of the crimes (Apuron) asks the Lord for it.
....Alexander Chen
Alexander Chen I suggest you don't hold your breath waiting for Apuron to return as Archbishop. Or for him to put his words into actions because Apuron won't sue Tim Rohr. I'm sure that Tim Rohr has more dirt on Apuron that still hasn't been revealed. Back in 2013 Tim Rohr hinted that he knew something about the "Agat boys" but that was lost on many of us. I'm sure Apuron won't want his other sins to come out in court which is why he threatened John Toves but never sued him.
DeleteAnon @ 6:55pm - Everything hinges on the accusations being found fraudulent or not. IF the allegations ARE fraudulent, Apuron can (if he wants) sue those responsible for all the damages done to him. Tim would be in the cross-hair as he is on the record for saying that he paid for the travel expenses to Guam to those willing to voice their 'allegations' (albeit, fraudulent in our assumption, WITHOUT ANY suitable precaution taken to vet the witnesses, i.e. irresponsible, malicious and careless of Tim to have done so.)
DeleteNow the fact that Apuron has not sued can be interpreted in many ways. Perhaps it may be foreign to you the Christian beatitudes, but Christians do not sue (Tim Rohr seems to have made a living out of it), look it up. You can interpret Apuron not suing as him being afraid, or conclude that someone has dirt on him, but that is your freedom to draw 'careless/groundless' conclusions. However, unless you have proof, stop throwing dirt with gossip (which makes your actions shameful).
BTW: Pedophilia has always been in society even before Christianity. It is only because of the Boston scandal that everyone has given themselves the right to paint with a broad brush all dioceses as corrupt... the millions that could be gained from suing is enticing and many fraudulent accusations have been levied at the Church ever since. That is why, due process is fundamental and prudence demands patience.
JW is the arm of New York liberals on Guam!
ReplyDeleteNew York liberal means secular enemies of everything Christian.
New York liberalism and cheap propaganda at the JW:
ReplyDeleteThursday, February 23, 2017
AP: APURON CASE HEADS TO MAINLAND
"The Washington Post"
Vatican abuse probe of Guam archbishop heads to mainland US
http://www.junglewatch.info/2017/02/ap-apuron-case-heads-to-mainland.html
sorry, this is off topic, but there is this article: http://www.guampdn.com/story/news/2017/02/25/church-seeks-background-checks-proper-mass/98285548/ which says "The Rev. Paul A.M. Gofigan, rector of the Dulce Nombre De Maria Cathedral-Basilica, issued a two-pronged Feb. 14 memo"
ReplyDeleteIs this issued to the parishioners of the cathedral? From the excerpts it looks like Gofigan pretends to address all of Guam's Catholics... Isn't he overstepping the scope of his authority?
Anonymous @ 9:52 PM, all you need to do is get a copy of the memo which was available last week at the CB. It's also available online at http://www.junglewatch.info/2017/02/tim-rohr-with-bob-klitkie-on-57-re-new.html
DeleteBut in case you aren't able to get a copy or you don't want to go to the jungle, you might still want to know that Fr. Paul's memo is addressed to:
Fr. Michael Jucutan, Vice-Rector
Fr. Tom McGrath, Priest-in-Residence
Agana Cathedral-Basilica Staff & Volunteers
Catechetical Ministers: CCD, Confirmation, RCIA, Marriage Preparation and Adult Faith Formation
Liturgical Ministers: Altar Servers, Sacristans, Mass Coordinators, Lectors, Music Ministers, Extraordinary Ministers of Communion, Ministers of Hospitality, Ministers of Art and Environment
Faith Based Ecclesial Communities, Apostolates: Neo-Catechumenal Way, Confraternity of Christian Mothers, Knights of St. Sylvester, Knights of St. Gregory, Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulcher of Jerusalem, Knights of Columbus
Parishioners of Dulce Nombre de Maria Cathedral-Basilica
cc: Archbishop Michael J. Byrnes, Fr. Jeffrey San Nicolas, Fr. Ken Carriveau
You ASSUME from the newspaper excerpts that "Gofigan pretends to address all of Guam's Catholics" but as you can see from the above list, the memo is addressed to those at the Cathedral-Basilica.
As to your question "Isn't he overstepping the scope of his authority?" I guess in the eyes of the NCW he is, but in the eyes of the parishioners (including myself who will be returning after a long absence), the answer is "NO. We're happy to finally have a NON-NCW PRIEST in charge of the CB."
@ CB Parishioner
DeleteThanks for the reply. No, I didn't ASSUME, I stated what it looked like and I asked. It was a question. I don't live in Guam, but I read the pdn article, and I wanted to know the information which wasn't included in the article but you graciously provided. Thanks again.
Since Anonymous at 9:52 PM was able to have an off-topic comment posted, I wonder if my off-topic question will be posted too:
ReplyDeleteIs Fr. Pius still on Guam?
Someone said he was removed as NCW head catechist and sent off-island.
Is this just a rumor based on wishful thinking by those in the jungle?
Dear Anonymous at 2:31 pm,
DeleteThose are rumors based on wishful thinking.
praying JW fast from blogs during lent. Wishing Archbishop Anthony a peaceful prayerful safe lent.
ReplyDeleteI believe some are taking advantage of the abuse crisis to further their own anger towards others for hurts of the past.
ReplyDelete