I heard from one of the brothers that an RMS priest have already announced in his parish what some of us have already known for a long time. There will be a new Bishop who will be coming to Guam soon to replace Archbishop Hon! This new Bishop is already aware of the mess going on in the Archdiocese.
We have written letters of complaint to Rome, and they have responded to our cries of help within only a month. Rome will be sending a new Bishop to replace Archbishop Hon while Archbishop Apuron goes through a canonical trial. Archbishop Apuron still remains the Archbishop of Agana. So, continue to pray for Archbishop Apuron and the Church of Guam. Continue to pray for peace and unity. Continue to pray for our persecutors.
I don't believe you, Diana. That would be quite stupid from Vatican to do!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 3:36 pm,
DeleteIt does not bother me whether you believe me or not. When he arrives, then you will know.
It will be rightful vindication for the critiques of Apuron if Hon will be replaced. They are the ones who told Hon to go home on Sunday pickets. Bargaining for another bishop to replace Hon might backfire on everyone. Hon wanted peace.
DeleteA double edged sword might cut in both direction.
DeleteThank you Diana. Archbishop Anthony is the authentic Archbishop of Guam. we only give our respect to him.
ReplyDeleteuntil Archbishop Anthony returns we need another Bishop to help us. Archbishop Hon unfortunately not suitable. He has created problems for our communties. He lacks understanding. He fails to follow wishes of Holy Father to build peace unity. we do not acknowledge his presence in our community.
Dear Anonymous at 5:10 pm,
DeleteAlthough he is not the Archbishop of Agana, Archbishop Hon should still be shown respect. God loves him too, and we need to pray for him.
One has the impression that this already goes beyond the regular skirmishes among Catholics inside the church. It looks more like an animosity dividing the faithful.
DeleteThe animosity is not from one side or the other. It is a reality that annoys the faithful. They don't want a situation where animosity blocks civilized conversation about peace. They don't wanna belong to a church divided. Skirmishes can be tolerated for a while. But animosity will have a high toll.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:11 am,
DeleteThe animosity was not on our side. When Monsignor David was removed from his position, you did not hear anything from us. Monsignor David quietly stepped down. When Father Adrian was removed from his position, you did not hear anything from us. Father Adrian quietly stepped down as Chancellor. When Father Pius was removed as Rector, he also quietly stepped down. When Father Paul and Monsignor James were given due process, you did not hear anything from us.
But we are not blind. We saw that the other side was not willing to co-exist with us, but were calling out for our destruction and the closing down of the seminary rather than making any effort in trying to get along with us. We saw that parishes that have the Way in them were targeted. Therefore, the other side gave us no other choice. Many of us wrote letters of complaint to Cardinal Filoni and to the Vatican, telling them of everything that has been happening here.
I agree with Diana. We've been quiet for the first few weeks. We did not cause any protests when Mon. David, Fr. Adrian, and Fr. Pius were removed. But we acted the moment we learned that AB Hon encouraged the presbyterial council to remove AB Apuron and rescind the deed restriction, in which he has no authority to do.
DeleteThe animosity is coming from sides standing against each other. But this is unreal! Catholics never stand against each other, because they stand for peace and spiritual growth. We stand for the Sacraments and sacramental life in our parish churches. We don't support any sides that act against each other in exaggerated animosity destroying peace and church.
DeleteArchbishop Hon found power abuse during the reign of Archbishop Apuron. He did not like it! He sees the RMS a major point of contention that perpetuates animosity. Many consider the RMS a selfish project that hurts the honest service of parishes.
If Cardinal Filoni is shielding abuse of power and encourages arrogance against rightful Vatican delegates, like Hon then it could very well hurt himself in the end. Even Cardinal Filoni might not be invincible! The ultimate word will come from Pope Francis.
It is widely held that a benefactor of good intention was deceived when her money was used for RMS. She did not know about RMS and NCW anything~! Showing papers is one thing, but the benefactor's good intention cannot be denied. If she was deceived, even in a lawful manner, then it was wrong and people feel and act accordingly.
These sentiments won't go away anytime soon, but will plague all actions of reconciliation effort. Be it coming from Hon or anyone else.
Dear Anonymous at 10:18 am,
DeleteI am going to remind you that it was the Sunday protestors and the jungle who wanted Archbishop Hon to go home. So, they got what they wished for.
For the sake of peace and unity, Mon. David quietly stepped down. For the sake of peace and unity, Fr. Adrian quietly stepped down. For the sake of peace and unity, Fr. Pius quietly stepped down. For the sake of peace and unity, the Way said nothing while Fr. Paul and Mon. James were given due process. For the sake of peace and unity, the Way said nothing when Fr. Paul was cleared of all allegations of disobedience. And all this time......JW, CCOG, and LFM continued their violence and name-calling against the Way. What did they do for the sake of peace and unity? NOTHING!!!! They could not even stop their Sunday protest for the sake of peace and unity.
DeleteThere are no two sides. Only One Holy Catholic Church! If the NVW is part of the Catholic Church, then it has no reason to say anything.
DeleteDavid, Adrian, Pius, Paul, James, JW, CCOG, LFM, Way, Hon: all the same thing! That's we are the Catholic people of Guam! Unity and peace are not joke words. It is the only way to survive!
If we can only attack each other, then the devil who is the Satan of the netherworld will laugh into his palms. He is heating up the hot water filled tanks of hell in great delight to receive the next big round of the damned.
Diana, Rohr and Klitzkie are all triumphant about Hon leaving! It was them who tried to sue him and chase him away. They yelled the 'Hon go home!' nonsense all the time. They feel like they just won now big time!
DeleteArchbishop Hon gave his best shot but NCW GUam very disobedient and stubborn. NCW Guam only listens to their catechists and no one else.
ReplyDeleteI hope the Vatican will send to Guam a Shepherd for all of God's people and not beholden to anyone particular group.
Dear Anonymous at 12:36 am,
DeleteApparently, the Vatican listened to our letters of complaint, and it did not take them three years to respond. They responded within only a short month. That alone should tell you something. Nevertheless, the Bishop will do what is best for everyone. And one thing best for everyone is to keep the seminary open rather than selling it.
That alone should tell us something. Tell us what? Pray tell.
DeleteWhat about Rohr as a toothless lion?
DeleteIf someone thinks a new Apostolic Administration will be better for one group or the other, please, think it twice. This might be a double edged sword! A new Archbishop may very well lose patience and just roll up all groups who oppose peace.
DeleteToothless lion eats mice, not the antelope. Lol.
Delete"Nevertheless, the Bishop will do what is best for everyone. And one thing best for everyone is to keep the seminary open rather than selling it. "
Deleteyou said Hon would be the one to listen to and obey when he first came, but that amounted to very little when put to the test. Now you are saying that the next Bishop will do the right thing, and that is to keep the property with the RMS Inc. So if he doesn't do that, presumably he is a bad bishop?
Dear Anonymous at 12:10 pm,
DeleteI also said that the only time a person should disobey is when one is being asked to do something immoral. I never advocated for blind obedience.
When the new Bishop arrives, I hope he removes the protestors from demonstrating on church property. They should start following civil law. All demonstrations should be on public property.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:02 am,
DeleteI agree with this. The law says that all protests and demonstrations are to be held on public property. Some people have complained about crossing the picket line, and all these people want to do is attend Mass. People should not be made to feel any kind of hindrance or guilt in crossing a picket line just to attend Mass.
The only way to stop protest is a declaration of sede vacante and an annulment of the deed restriction.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:22 am,
DeleteThat will not satisfy the protestors. Why? Because the next thing they will ask for is the closing down of the seminary. And when that is done, they will still not be satisfied. They will still continue their protest. Why? Because then the next thing they will want is the elimination of the NCW.
We don't know who is driving the protest. Protestors talk about the elimination of NCW but this is only idle talk. It would be a lost cause, as both Rohr and LaPaz admitted. The seminary won't be closed. It is a great asset of the Catholic Church that must be protected.
DeleteDear Diana, this is where you become extreme. It is clear that there are serious problems in the integration of the NCW with the local Church (not just on Guam, but very many places). So, one way to approach it would be for the NCW to relax and become more docile to the Holy Spirit and the authority of the local Church. This is essentially what Pope Francis said to the NCW in early 2014.
DeleteUnfortunately, it is an impossibility to appeal to the NCW in this way. Because the NCW presents itself, and is received, as a perfect "gift" rendered virtually infallible as it is believed to have come direct from God.
So, we saw Kiko's response to Pope Francis was to complain that the NCW shouldn't have to change in the way the Pope suggested, and he simply then ignored it.
Same here on Guam. Despite the platitudes that come from the NCW members, usually said with false humility, that ewe are all sinners, and we are not perfect and so on, the fact is that practically speaking the members believe the NCW is perfect and should not be altered one little bit. So, therefore, any decision made by the NCW is the right one; and statement made by a NCW leader must be true and holy, and operation of the NCW through other entities, such as the seminary, must be anointed by God and therefore should not be criticized, let alone changed or reformed.
This is the point where we see no opportunity for reconciliation. The NCW will stubborn, and ideologically, oppose any call for reform or modification, as they truly believe the NCW is the perfect form of Church.
Get over yourself! If you are a sinner, if Pius is a sinner, if Kiko is a sinner, then they might simply be wrong. What good does it do to persist in error, if they are wrong. Not even the highest levels of the Vatican operations claim such infallibility - in fact, Papal infallibility is rather limited.
But not so the NCW. Everything is wonderful and perfect and straight from the hand of God. What a joke.
Dear Anonymous at 12:27 pm,
DeleteI have always said that if you feel that the NCW is not following correct doctrine, then write a letter of complaint to the Vatican. You have no authority to tell us to follow you. Do not be angry at us for writing our own letters of complaint. That is not disobedience. We have every right to voice our concerns to Rome just like you. As I said we have remained silent for the first few weeks even while the jungle, CCOG, and LFM have been calling out for the destruction of the NCW and the closing down of the seminary. We, on the other hand, have NEVER called for their destruction.
Dear Diana, did you not read my comment? I dmade no reference to your letters to the Vatican (of complaint?). Nor did I ever criticize "voicing concerns".
DeleteMy comment goes to the fact that the NCW considers itself perfect in form and function, and that despite the problems it causes, despite pleas and directions from the Church, it is unable to reform or adjust itself - due to the this mistaken view.
You haven't tried to answer my comments, you simply wrote about something else. I guess that is a confirmation that you agree with what I wrote.
I couldn't care less whether you write to NXCW friendly people in the Vatican, nor whether the NCW exercises influence at the highest levels of the Church. The problem, the issue I mean to address, is the extremist perspective the NCW members regard the NCW in.
Once again, while the NCW remains stubbornly convinced that it is perfect the way it is, that it is handed, fully-formed from God's right hand through the prophet Kiko, and that there is no possibility of error in its theory, structure or functional practice, then there will continue to be very little opportunity for overcoming the division.
The attitude of the NCW seems to be "oppose us if you like, we don't care, what we have is far superior to anything the Church might give us, so do what you like, and we will continue to do as we like, and we will win because we are better organised".
All I am saying is that this attitude is not conducive to solving the divisions present in the Church through the presence of the NCW.
Dear Anonymous at 1:36 pm,
DeleteNowhere in any of my blog and comments have I ever said that the NCW is perfect. That false accusation came only from the jungle.
Dear Anon at 1:36 pm, we are not perfect. Wwe have never said that. We are as you, Catholics. We believe everything you do. There is no difference in our faith. We believe something more: we believe that our founders got the charism from the Holy Spirit and this charism is good for us.
DeleteYes, we are able to reform and adjust. This is part of what we do. Why do you thing otherwise?
Now, if we believe in what we do then why do want to stop us from doing that? Do you have some particular interest in stopping our practices? Please, appeal to us. We are docile up to the point when our existence is threatened.
If you come to my house and want to beat me out of my own house, then I have to tell you something, my friend. I have to tell you that you have no business to do that. I will ask you, please, to leave my house and you will have to comply! I'll close the door behind you and won't allow you to come back again, until you change your heart.
I am very sorry, my friend, but killing someone can be done in a thousand of ways, but letting others live their life can be done only one way: you just leave us alone! We are not perfect. But this won't give you an axe into your hand to kill. Do you understand that? Thank you.
FYI Anon @ 10:02 AM & Diana @ 10:09 AM the Protestors ARE on PUBLIC PROPERTY since they walk on the SIDEWALK and do not walk up the stairs to block the entrance to the church. IF the sidewalk was "private property" as you think the police could have been called to remove the protestors. The police station is only a couple of blocks away. It would be so easy for them to come and remove the protestors IF they were breaking the law. People who get upset about the protestors could file a complaint but they don't. Like the two of you and others on this blog they badmouth the protestors and claim they're on "private property" LOL
DeleteRemember what happened last year at Apuron's birthday shindig when LFM walked the sidewalk there? SAME THING. LOLOLOL
Will you publish this and admit you're wrong? I'd be surprised because you don't ever publish my comments when I point out the times when you're wrong.
Dear Anonymous at 6:46 am,
DeleteThe protesters are on church property. They were sitting on the sign and walking around the sign of the Agana Cathedral. The red bricks were placed by the Cathedral, not the government of Guam. Public property is in the grassy area where the government planted the trees. Those trees are aligned with the sidewalk across from it.
For the sake of peace and unity, Mon. David quietly stepped down. For the sake of peace and unity, Fr. Adrian quietly stepped down. For the sake of peace and unity, Fr. Pius quietly stepped down. For the sake of peace and unity, the Way said nothing while Fr. Paul and Mon. James were given due process. For the sake of peace and unity, the Way said nothing when Fr. Paul was cleared of all allegations of disobedience. And all this time......JW, CCOG, and LFM continued their violence and name-calling against the Way. What did they do for the sake of peace and unity? NOTHING!!!! They could not even stop their Sunday protest for the sake of peace and unity.
ReplyDeleteStop following Tim rohr for sake of peace and unity.
DeleteI believe we should all live in peace and live our faith unity in diversity. Should you wish ncw, or Latin Mass, or parish Mass. why can we not all live together. The Church is for everyone. we need unity in diversity. it is possible.
ReplyDeleteAgree with you Anon. at 11:34 am.
DeleteI went to a wedding recently where the couple were both in the Way... and also the grooms parents. The Brides family were not in the Way. There were two priests, one is in the Way and the other was not. Majority of the people who attended were not in the Way. The wedding ceremony was how the Way does it with dancing around the alter and all, and the songs were the ones used in the way. I was beautiful.
The Catholics in the Way together with Catholics not in the Way... together...there was nothing to indicate disunity, in fact there was complete unity.
The only disunity I hear of is in the media and those who follow people in that other blog. It seems to me that they are the only ones who are not in unity with rest of the Catholics on Guam.
So yeah, I agree with you, it is possible, and it is happening.
DCI
ReplyDeleteI believe unity is possible and ncw and parishes can live pray together. I was anti neo. Now i begin to see neo not as bad after all.
Diana, any chance Archbishop Anthony is the bishop coming when Hon goes home to Rome?
ReplyDeleteDiana you keep saying others want to eliminate the way but this is simply not true. Have you really been told so and so called for the elimination extermination of the way like six million jews. No. you are spreading these stories which cause division.
ReplyDeleteI believe you are right we will have a new bishop. But are you going to eliminate the new bishop whoever he is ? .
Dear Anonymous at 10:00 am,
DeleteThe new Bishop who will come will not be the Archbishop of Agana. Anthony Apuron remains the Archbishop of Agana even when this new bishop arrives. The new bishop will replace the Apostolic Administrator, not Archbishop Apuron. The new Bishop will not destroy the NCW nor shut down the seminary. We only complained to Rome when we saw that Archbishop Hon went against the Pope in his attempts to remove Apuron.
Diana, Archbishop Hon did not go against the Pope. He went against property grab. Make no mistake about it, Diana, Hon has never said the property was stolen. He has always said the right to use the property was stolen! This is slightly different.
DeleteIf you think a new Apostolic Administrator would permit this property grab to continue then you might be up for a rude awakening! Whoever will be the new Administrator, will have his mandate from the Holy See to continue the work of Hon to bring reconciliation to the archdiocese. The Holy See has expressed his intention to rescind the deed restriction on the Yona property without litigation.
Archbishop Apuron won't remain the Archbishop of Agana. This would be ad news not only for Guam Catholic but also to the NCW of Guam. The Holy See cannot risk an open revolt on a tiny island. Even if Apuron is to be exonerated from the sexual misconduct charges, he will be castigated for allowing property grab in perpetuity.
Dear Anonymous at 11:10 am,
DeleteThe right to use the property was never stolen. The former finance council agreed that the purchase of the property was to PERMANENTLY house the RMS. There is a document stating that with their signatures on it.
Dear Anonymous at 11:10 am,
DeleteThe right to use the property was never stolen. The former finance council agreed that the purchase of the property was to PERMANENTLY house the RMS. There is a document stating that with their signatures on it.
Diana, it does not matter what the former financial council had agreed or not agreed to. If he legal avenue interests you only so far as to justify the property grab, then you are guilty of endangering the patrimony of the church. If you use legal tricks to deprive the church from rightful use of the land, then you open a door of your own demise.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:40 am,
DeleteIt is not a legal trick. It is an actual and official document.
Even if there is a document like that, it is not legally binding. The Archbishop may disregard the recommendations of the financial council. If Apuron wanted, he could have found another way to house RMS without a deed restriction. But he became stubborn and refuses to rescind the deed restriction, even by repeated requests from the Holy See. By the way, even now the opportunity is still open for him!
DeleteThe deed restriction must be rescinded and RMS should claim only that portion of the property that is essential for its existence. The Accion Hotel is a huge building. The rest of the property should be used for other church function. RMS should not have exclusive right to use the whole building. For what end? This exclusivity is against church law.
For example, a hospice for cancer/ dementia/ etc. patients could be beneficial for Catholic social service. Seminary students, not only those of the NCW, could practice charity on site! The Accion Hotel has many more rooms than RMS could ever use. Why do you want the whole thing just for yourself?!
Dear Anonymous at 1:39 pm,
DeleteThe whole intention of purchasing that property was to permanently house RMS. Because there are certain people who are interested in closing down the seminary, the wise move is NOT to rescind the deed restriction.
Diana, using something "permanently" and "in perpetuity" have two completely distinct meanings in law. Residing somewhere permanently is simply meaning that not temporarily. Permanent residents of Guam may move to the mainland and simply change their permanent residency address at any time.
DeleteIn perpetuity, in contrast, means something is bound until rescinded. Until an "in perpetuity" closure is in effect, you cannot change it. It is completely different from permanency. You try to use the two different expressions in the same meaning. This is a legal trick. This is exactly the attitude I am talking about. You only use law for justifying your property grab.
Tell me, dear Diana, how many % of the property is used by RMS right now? Why would NCW need the whole Accion Hotel all for its own purposes? It cannot be justified. Rome will ask the same question: Why?
Dear Anonymous at 2:21 pm,
DeleteOnly Archbishop Apuron has the authority to rescind the deed restriction. In the future, it is possible that he would rescind the deed restriction.....that is, of course, when he sees that certain groups have a change of heart in closing down the Seminary. In the meantime, the deed restriction stays to protect the property.
Diana, you answer a different question. It is not the question who has the authority to rescind the deed restriction. The question is why he would not do it? Rome will ask the same question: Why?
DeleteYou point to straw men who allegedly want to "close down the Seminary". But who are these people? These people are lay people. They have no authority whatsoever. TH\hey cannot close down anything. You only use them as a pretext to justify Apuron's stubbornness and the NCW's property grab.
Dear Anonymous at 5:10 pm,
DeleteYour question was already answered by Archbishop Apuron. He placed a deed restriction because some people wanted close down the Seminary and sell it. It was a wise decision. If that deed restriction was not there, Archbishop Hon would have closed down the property.
Diana, this is not true. Hon has never said he wanted to close down the property. Who told you this?
DeleteThe way one sees reality determines the actions one takes. Hon believes that in Guam there are two authorities – his and the Neocatechumenal Way. So his policy is to force into submission or to exterminate the latter.
ReplyDeleteWell, he is wrong.
In Guam there is only one authority – his. And rightly so because this is how the Catholic Church works.
Hon claims that the Pope sent him and so he needs to be respected and obeyed totally and blindly. I believe he is overstating his authority in the sense that I do not think the Pope is behind every singe action that he takes; in fact I know that the Pope would be against some of the decisions Hon took.
It is normal in life that some disagree with the decisions the established authority takes. But this does not constitute another authority – these people are simply normal Church members who for good/bad reasons do not agree with the decisions Hon took. But to make the step and say that they constitute another source of authority simply denotes a paranoiac vision of reality.
Hon rightly observed that NCW is not willing to return the right of use of the Yona property to the Catholic Church of Guam. This is perceived as arrogance against the Holy See whom Hon represents on Guam.
DeleteIt was a right decision of Archbishop Hon to step down as Apostolic Administrator. He is unwilling to make the drastic measures this situation requires. By stepping down, Hon allows the next Curia official who will come to Guam to be more powerful and more efficient.
Oh yeah? Do you think Hon overstates his authority? Well, he was appointed by Pope Francis and he represents the Holy See. Now, what can we say about the "missionaries" who come to an 85% Catholic island and want to take over the parishes? NCW says their missionaries were "sent by the Pope". This is an exaggeration. This is overstating their authority. They have absolutely nothing, zero authority over the Catholic parishes of Guam!
DeleteIn fact, I know that Pope Francis would be against some of the decisions NCW missionaries make for the lives of the faithful of the archdiocese.
Diana who are the peoplw who want to close down the seminary. I have never met one individual who told me they want go close it down. I know shirleys and kings coffee shop pancakes great, no one ever told me they want to close down RMS. you are the one saying this.
ReplyDeleteWe have a new bishop. Archbishop Coadjutor Michael J. Byrnes. Found this video of interest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYGcDBOQhO0
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:48 pm,
DeleteI just found out about this a few minutes ago. How did you find out before me??? :-)