Sunday, August 7, 2016
More WYD photos
The World Youth Day pilgrimage always brings positive results to our youth. We evangelized in small towns and cities. We spoke of our experience. We visited churches and were even entertained by a group of singing Carmelite nuns. Our youth were excited to see and hear the Pope. This pilgrimage was a first time for some of them, and it will be a memorable one.
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I wrote this to Fr. Efren. I wonder if they'll publish it.
ReplyDeleteDear Father Efren, I am impressed by your moderate ways of proposing reform and renewal. I applaud your initiative of engaging in dialogue. There were not much chances for meaningful dialogue in the old JW because of the incredible amount of venom that was pumped into the conversations and the aggressive vilification of those who came forward revealing their identity.
If the new JW wants to be a place of dialogue, it has to discontinue the administering of venom on its pages at the first place. We are Catholics who face some challenges in an age of modern times of the 21st century. Responses to these challenges and emphasis of approaches will vary. We need tolerance and acceptance of each other in order to be able to renew the church and move forward.
The Neocatechumenal Way has tried, in many instances successfully, to implement the reforms that were outlined at the Vatican 2 Council. We have communities that transmit faith to children. Most of Catholic families are not "holy" in the sense many expect. Our communities lead these families on a path of getting closer to our Lord in our everyday lives. Why shun NCW? Why mock our efforts? Why not learn from our experiences in small communities that may model a future overarching rejuvenation of the whole Catholic Church?
There are artificial boundaries between Catholics in and out of communities. These artificial boundaries include charges of illicit administration of sacraments and heresy. But is this for real? Are these charges reflect reality? I do not think so. It is more like reflecting an aversion toward new things, an aversion towards reforms.
The holiness of priests is attained by the sacrament of Holy Order. We in the NCW communities have high regard for consecrated priests, sometimes called presbyters. The rejuvenation of the church must be based on the work of the Holy Spirit in two ways:
1. bottom-up, from the faithful who gets engaged in faith communities by the guidance of the Spirit and
2. top-down: from the Holy Order of priests who give direction by the same Spirit.
In order to move forward with your noble initiative of dialogue, artificial boundaries, biases and prejudices that block meaningful conversation should be removed and the opportunities for an all-inclusive approach should be opened up.
I pray that you and all Catholic faithful of goodwill will be able to stand the pressure coming from self-serving radicalism opposed to anything that is not itself. This pressure is incumbent with any noble initiative but could be overcome by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. God bless you and those who stand for the Peace of our Lord in this time of testing and terrible turmoil.
Dear Zoltan,
DeleteIt is a waste of time to make comments in the jungle. Even if they publish your comment, you will only end up being ridiculed and mocked. Many of those renewal and reforms that Glaucon Jr. mentioned are already being practiced in the NCW. As a matter of fact, the NCW have more on their list. Glaucon Jr. did not even mention anything about evangelization. The NCW, evangelizes door to door and from city to city and town to town. None of that was included in Glaucon Jr. list of renewal and reform. The NCW youth go on pilgrimages such as the World Youth Day. Communities also go on pilgrimages to Jerusalem after they reach a certain step. A pilgrimage to Jerusalem was what actually converted Steven Ray to Catholicism.
Dear Diana, unfortunately, you are absolutely right again! You are right that JW was not brave enough to publish my comment. They just erased it. Even though I submitted my comment to them first, it has not been published at all. It is evident now that there is no "old JW" and "new JW", it is, in fact, the one and same JW that has always been: a junkyard of hearsay, gossip, superstition, innuendo and intellectual dishonesty.
DeleteIt is excessively ironic though, that JW is stealing my comments from your blog, dear Diana, and publish it in JW without any permission! They just stole my previous comment about the lemmings. Perhaps this lemming story is fitting them so much, they could not resist stealing it. Lol! What kind of cowardice is that?!
I hope Father Efren will learn somehow about what happened to this comment that was a direct response to his initiative. You'll see the very same people all the time, the senseless radicals of sheer destruction, who are desperate to torpedo any promising initiative even before it had a chance of being launched! Why are these people so desperate? Father Efren, perhaps, you'll have a hunch now what is really leading these people in their action.
Whatever it is, what they do has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit!
Dear Diana, you are right that our NCW communities are living in the reform and renewal proposed by Vatican 2.
DeleteYeah, it is also true that reform and renewal in the Catholic Church is impossible without opening and reading the Scriptures! For some reason, traditionalists are not very fond of the Bible. But Vatican 2 projected it forward very clearly so that everyone can hear: the Scripture is the Voice of God, Dei Verbum!
Little JW folks know that in the NCW we gather every week to celebrate the Bible by reading and reflecting on it, from little kids and young adults up to the oldest manamkos of our communities! Everybody reads and meditates the Scriptures. The Gospel is opening up in many ways in our hearts, souls, spirits and minds. Please, give importance to directed Bible studies as the very backbone of every kind of reform and renewal.
Right on ''Zoltan'' Nice to have you Back Mrs. Diana :)
DeleteDear Zoltan,
DeleteThey also copy and paste some of my posts and comments, but that does not bother me. Some people here also do the same thing. They would copy and paste comments from the jungle and bring it here to make a point. Calling them names does not solve anything. Telling the truth is the way to go and using correction is the way to go.
For example, when Glaucon Jr. preached that Christians became "Christians" through a shared experience, that is when I corrected him with the truth. We became Christians through the Sacrament of Baptism. Calling them names will only lessen your credibility. Comparing them to the NCW also does not help.
This is the truth. In the NCW, we gather once a week to celebrate the word. So,yes....in the NCW, we use the Holy Bible a lot. Every month, our youth also go through a scrutacio, reading and studying the Bible along with prayers. The entire scrutacio usually last two to three hours. Faith is transmitted to our youth by their parents during morning prayer and through their active participation in the scrutacio and in pilgrimages such as World Youth Day.
Tim is right that faith should be transmitted by the parents just as it's done in the Way. Allowing the laity to be involved in the church helps them grow in faith.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 7:24 am,
DeleteI agree. Tim Rohr is correct in that faith should be transmitted by the parents; however, he is wrong about CCD. That is why he was never asked to return . CCD was NOT formed to take the parents' responsibility in transmitting the faith. CCD was formed as a result of the parents failing to do their responsibilities. Society had changed. There was a breakdown in the family. Divorce and single parenting increased. The structure of the family continues to change, and people were losing their faith because other things became more important than God. Rather than transmitting the faith, they transmitted the importance of having a good job, a good education, etc. If the Church had not come up with the idea of CCD, Tim Rohr would still blame the Church for doing nothing as parents no longer transmit the faith to their children. So, it would not matter whether there was CCD or not. Tim Rohr would still blame the Church.
Tim Rohr blame everybody .for a family man he sure is a shameful man, fighting against his church.
DeleteSo Tim points out something you agree with, and rather than say you have a point of agreement, you say it's where he's anti-church? amazing
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:41 am,
DeleteOn the contrary,, I did point out where I agree with him and where I disagree. I also said that it would not matter if there was CCD or not.
There is a doubt in the Jungle about island priests hearing confessions! The claim is they may break the confessional seal, as Rohr says, he "wonders about" them. Awww. So he demands off-island priests to come to Guam to hear confessions! Is this not crazy?
ReplyDeleteWait, where is that? No priest can ever break the seal, and Tim Rohr nos that.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 11:19 pm,
DeleteI copied and pasted Tim's comment below, which can be found in the jungle:
TimAugust 9, 2016 at 2:34 PM
Thanks for posting about this topic, Bruce. I have been thinking about it for several days. Perhaps the number one thing that needs to happen if any renewal or reform is to take place is the availability of confessors to our clergy who are not known to them.
There is a very real possibility that familiarity and distrust amongst the clergy is hampering if not outright precluding clergy availing of themselves to this most necessary sacrament, giving Satan increased time and opportunity to work on them who are his first targets anyway.
A great act of mercy would be for Hon to bring a priest to Guam, unknown to anyone, at least once a month to hear the confessions of the clergy. In fact, this great act of mercy could be extended to the laity who wish to keep their identities confidential while confessing their sins, something quite hard to do for many of us.
It’s not that the clergy or the laity fear that a confessor will break the confessional seal (though I really do wonder about some priests), but, being human, if the confessee is known to the confessor, compromise may play into the human element.
http://www.junglewatch.info/2016/08/the-parish-priest.html#more
Yes, dear Diana, you read here "I really do wonder about some priests". This is a charge against whom?
Deletethanks
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:55 am,
DeleteIf Tim Rohr is 100% certain and has substantial evidence that a priest has violated the confessional seal, the appropriate response is to report it to the Archbishop rather than make allusions about it in his blog. It would only lead to suspicions and rumors.
The practice of Confession arises from the example and command of Jesus, who showed that human nature could be used by God as an instrument of grace and forgiveness. He said "That you may know that the Son of Man has the power to forgive sin..." (Mt. 9:6; Mk 2:7-10; Lk 5:21-24). The Hebrew title He used was "ben Adam" meaning "Son of Adam." This was the Hebrew way of saying "a human being." Jesus always gloried in His Humanity, since through It He redeemed us. He communicated this authority to His Apostles on Easter night, "Whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven, whose sins you shall retain they are retained" (Jn 20:19-23). In this way He gave the Apostles the power to give "Peace" (v.21), which is nothing less than the reconciliation of man with God.
ReplyDeleteSo rohr believes we do not have priest on Guam that qualifies? Gotta admit one thing.....he does think out of the box......an empty box.
Let's not overthink this, nor confuse Tim Rohr with his comment. Not to speak for Rohr, but the point is that a lot of priests on Guam have trust issues regarding other priests, whether these concerns are justified or not. Sometimes it helps to have a degree of anonymity in order to really get to the heart of what may spiritually be going on in a person. That really means that a broader pastoral approach for the pastors themselves may really be needed.
ReplyDeleteRohr is making a pastoral suggestion. If it helps bring healing to our church on island, then I'm all for it.
Dear Anonymous at 5:50 pm,
DeleteTim Rohr is insulting the priests of Guam. We already saw that Tim has turned against Father Paul because of a misunderstanding. Father Paul changed his mind and only wanted his name restored, and Tim has thrown Father Paul under the bus......so to speak. Now, he is insulting all priests on Guam.
He also places himself above those priests. Here is Rohr "full frontal" with Fr. Efren in their exchange. Fr. Efren had to say this:
DeleteAnonymousAugust 7, 2016 at 7:23 AM
Tim, of course I do not take offense to your comments. It is good that we are talking about this item. I agree wholeheartedly that parents are the primary educators in the faith development of their own children. [...]
Definitely, your ideas are worth discussing. Confraternity of Catholic Education is not a lucrative enterprise for a parish but perhaps only for the publishing houses where we purchase the books. [...]
Always Jesus,
Father Efren
Now, the answer is a true Rohr gem, showing what he really thinks about Fr. Efren, priests in general, about himself and his own ideas:
TimAugust 7, 2016 at 10:14 AM
Dear Father, that's just it. These aren't MY "ideas." They're God's.
http://www.junglewatch.info/2016/08/reform-renewal-risk.html#more
What? Ouch! Should priests with good intention just shut up because God is speaking straight through the mouth of Rohr?! Oh, really? What a chutzpah... Can we also worship you, Mr. Rohr?
Anonymous at 11:13-- I think that Mr. Rohr is just stating what he has been pushing has been in line with God...granted he is blunt, and rather crass in his delivery. Fr. Efren and he are on two ends of the scale in their mannerisms....but I do believe they are of one belief in this case.
Delete