AnonymousSeptember 10, 2014 at 8:40 AM
here is a real person's testimony of how maligned the Diocese is in promoting the way. In the entire Roman Catholic Church it is only on Guam where Diaconote Candidates are FORCED TO JOIN. Years later Pope Francis will announce and defend our freedom of joining and leaving these movements. The entire Catholic Church is SHAKING THEIR HEAD over Guam.
...""nobody is forced to join the NCW." This is just plain not true. No matter how many times we hear this, it still doesn't make it true.
As was pointed out by myself and several other men in our meeting with the Nuncio back in July, we were forced to join the NCW by the Archbishop and Fr Adrian. We had been studying for 3.5 years and were told 5 months before our scheduled ordination that unless we joined a community and walked we would not be ordained. Our primary formator, Fr Tony Perez, was furious when he found out that this was being forced upon us. He met with the Archbishop, but the Archbishop refused to rescind the order.
So, please stop parroting what you have been told when you do not know the facts. Some people have heard this so often they begin to think it is true, but the reality is that people have been forced to join. Also ask the three priests who wanted to be incardinated to our Archdiocese but were told they had to join the NCW or find a new home/new bishop."
Deacon Steve Martinez
...""nobody is forced to join the NCW." This is just plain not true. No matter how many times we hear this, it still doesn't make it true.
As was pointed out by myself and several other men in our meeting with the Nuncio back in July, we were forced to join the NCW by the Archbishop and Fr Adrian. We had been studying for 3.5 years and were told 5 months before our scheduled ordination that unless we joined a community and walked we would not be ordained. Our primary formator, Fr Tony Perez, was furious when he found out that this was being forced upon us. He met with the Archbishop, but the Archbishop refused to rescind the order.
So, please stop parroting what you have been told when you do not know the facts. Some people have heard this so often they begin to think it is true, but the reality is that people have been forced to join. Also ask the three priests who wanted to be incardinated to our Archdiocese but were told they had to join the NCW or find a new home/new bishop."
Deacon Steve Martinez
The following was my response to the Deacon:
With all due respect, sir, if you cannot obey the Archbishop when he tells you to join the Way as a Deacon, then you should not be ordain a priest. A priest takes an oath to be obedient to his Bishop. So, if you cannot be obedient as a Deacon, how much more a priest? Pope Francis spoke about the joy of being a priest. which is guarded by three sisters: Sister Poverty, Sister Fidelity, and Sister OBIEDIENCE. According to the Pope:
Obedience” is the third sister to priestly joy, the Pope declared. He explained that this is “An obedience to the Church in the hierarchy which gives us not simply the external framework for our obedience: the parish to which I am sent, my ministerial assignments, my particular work … but also union with God the Father, the source of all fatherhood”. It is also “obedience to the Church in service: in availability and readiness to serve everyone, always and as best I can”.
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-francisco-francis-prete-priest-sacerdote-33541//pag/1/
Obedience” is the third sister to priestly joy, the Pope declared. He explained that this is “An obedience to the Church in the hierarchy which gives us not simply the external framework for our obedience: the parish to which I am sent, my ministerial assignments, my particular work … but also union with God the Father, the source of all fatherhood”. It is also “obedience to the Church in service: in availability and readiness to serve everyone, always and as best I can”.
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-francisco-francis-prete-priest-sacerdote-33541//pag/1/
When Pope Francis announced that the NCW is not to force anyone to join the Way, he was referring to lay people. Deacon Steve, you are part of the clergy in pursuit to be a priest. Seminarians are told to obey their superiors. Deacons and priests are also told to do the same. As part of the laity, we follow the Archbshop, but the Archbishop cannot tell the laity to join the Way. It is up to me to stay or leave the Way. However, the Archbishop can ask his deacons and priests to join the Way.
Another poster who goes by the name "Catholic In The Way" made a wonderful comment under one of my posts, which can be found here. And Deacon Steve, if you are reading this, I hope you read his/her comment and take your vocation toward the ministering priesthood seriously. Catholic in the Way explained it better than I could so I will copy and paste his/her comments:
Another poster who goes by the name "Catholic In The Way" made a wonderful comment under one of my posts, which can be found here. And Deacon Steve, if you are reading this, I hope you read his/her comment and take your vocation toward the ministering priesthood seriously. Catholic in the Way explained it better than I could so I will copy and paste his/her comments:
PART 1
Please read the article on this link - it wasn't written by a "Neo".
http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/on-listening-to-bishops.html
I, myself, had many judgements against the Archbishop before entering the Way. Then I discovered, through the Church teachings while walking in the Way, that he was the Bishop that, through the Holy See, God gave us. I may not agree with how some things may have been handled, but he is the Bishop and I, as a catholic, have to respect the Authority given to him. He is still my Bishop, the one appointed by the Holy Spirit.
DECREE CONCERNING THE PASTORAL OFFICE OF BISHOPS IN THE CHURCH
CHRISTUS DOMINUS PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS, POPE PAUL VI ON OCTOBER 28, 196
"The bishops themselves, however, having been appointed by the Holy Spirit, are successors of the Apostles as pastors of souls.(3) Together with the supreme pontiff and under his authority they are sent to continue throughout the ages the work of Christ, the eternal pastor.(4) Christ gave the Apostles and their successors the command and the power to teach all nations, to hallow men in the truth, and to feed them. Bishops, therefore, have been made true and authentic teachers of the faith, pontiffs, and pastors through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to them.(5)"
So, If I am Catholic, I must have some faith that God has control over His bishops. As the article mentions, bishops are human and make mistakes. But rather than persecuting him, we must, as Catholic's, pray for him.
Please read the article on this link - it wasn't written by a "Neo".
http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/on-listening-to-bishops.html
I, myself, had many judgements against the Archbishop before entering the Way. Then I discovered, through the Church teachings while walking in the Way, that he was the Bishop that, through the Holy See, God gave us. I may not agree with how some things may have been handled, but he is the Bishop and I, as a catholic, have to respect the Authority given to him. He is still my Bishop, the one appointed by the Holy Spirit.
DECREE CONCERNING THE PASTORAL OFFICE OF BISHOPS IN THE CHURCH
CHRISTUS DOMINUS PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS, POPE PAUL VI ON OCTOBER 28, 196
"The bishops themselves, however, having been appointed by the Holy Spirit, are successors of the Apostles as pastors of souls.(3) Together with the supreme pontiff and under his authority they are sent to continue throughout the ages the work of Christ, the eternal pastor.(4) Christ gave the Apostles and their successors the command and the power to teach all nations, to hallow men in the truth, and to feed them. Bishops, therefore, have been made true and authentic teachers of the faith, pontiffs, and pastors through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to them.(5)"
So, If I am Catholic, I must have some faith that God has control over His bishops. As the article mentions, bishops are human and make mistakes. But rather than persecuting him, we must, as Catholic's, pray for him.
PART 2
Here is a post by a Father Ryan Erlinbush on the authority of Bishop's from Saint Ignatius of Antioch:
http://newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2011/10/on-authority-of-bishops-from-st.html
If this is not good neigh, then how about this:
" Bishops, as vicars and ambassadors of Christ, govern the particular churches entrusted to them by their counsel, exhortations, example, and even by their authority and sacred power, which indeed they use only for the edification of their flock in truth and holiness, remembering that he who is greater should become as the lesser and he who is the chief become as the servant. This power, which they personally exercise in Christ's name, is proper, ordinary and immediate, although its exercise is ultimately regulated by the supreme authority of the Church, and can be circumscribed by certain limits, for the advantage of the Church or of the faithful. In virtue of this power, bishops have the sacred right and the duty before the Lord to make laws for their subjects, to pass judgment on them and to moderate everything pertaining to the ordering of worship and the apostolate. The pastoral office or the habitual and daily care of their sheep is entrusted to them completely; nor are they to be regarded as vicars of the Roman Pontiffs, for bishops exercise an authority that is proper to them, and are quite correctly called "prelates," heads of the people whom they govern. Their power, therefore, is not destroyed by the supreme and universal power, but on the contrary it is affirmed, strengthened and vindicated by it, since the Holy Spirit unfailingly preserves the form of government established by Christ the Lord in His Church." Vatican Council II, Lumen Gentium § 27.
”Saint Paul commands us to obey all superiors, even those who are bad. Our Blessed Saviour, His Virgin Mother, and Saint Joseph have taught us this kind of obedience in the journey they took from Nazareth to Bethlehem, when Caesar published an edict that his subjects should repair to the place of their nativity to be enrolled. They complied with this order with the most affectionate obedience, though the Emperor was a pagan and an idolator, so desirous was Our Lord of showing us that we should never regard the persons of those who command, provided they be invested with sufficient authority.”--Saint Francis of Sales, Doctor of the Church
Now, is the Archbisop a perfect Bishop, everyone will have their own opinion. But one thing I have discovered is that he is the perfect Bishop sent by God. Did God make a mistake? I leave that for anyone to answer themselves.
Does the Archbishop make mistakes - of course! After all he is human. But, one thing I have learned from the Church and scripture, is that I am not one to judge.
“If you judge people, you have no time to love them.” ― Mother Teresa
Always remember to love your neighbor; always prefer the one who tries your patience, who test your virtue, because with her you can always merit: suffering is Love; the Law is Love. --Bl Mary of Jesus Crucified "The Little Arab"
”Dismiss all anger, and look a little into yourself. Remember that he of whom you are speaking is your brother, and, as he is in the way of salvation, God can make him a Saint, notwithstanding his present weaknesses. You may fall into the same faults or perhaps into a worse fault. But supposing that you remain upright, to whom are you indebted for it, if not to the pure mercy of God?” --Saint Thomas of Villanova
Diana,
ReplyDeleteIf the way was Catholic then i'd agree with you. It's like asking a diabetic to swallow a tablespoon of salt
Dear Anonymous at 2:43 p.m.,
DeleteThe Way is Catholic, which is why we are obedient to the Archbishop. We do not go against him. Those who go against him go against the Catholic Church.
Kiko Arguello, the founder of the NCW movement did not agree with the liturgy of the Catholic Church and changed it to fit his needs. And you still say the NCW is Catholic?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:37 p.m.,
DeleteYes, the NCW is Catholic because Kiko Arguello, founder of the NCW agrees with all liturgies of the Catholic Church including the ones in the Eastern rite Church.
I'm sorry, being obedient just because of his title is not going to fly. He has to SHOW that he is being Christ-like for people to acknowledge his true title.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 4:50 a.m.,
DeleteAnd where are you going to find someone like that? Even the Apostle Peter denied Christ three times. If the Apostles were not Christ-like in that they were imperfect men, what makes you think that the Archbishop SHOULD be perfect like Christ?
I sort of remember hearing Fr. Adrian and the Bishop reeling back from the testimony we heard and downplaying it from a command to a suggestion.....whatever Diana
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 2:45 p.m.,
DeleteFrom what I heard, Father Adrian and the Archbishop said they misinterpret what was said. Nevertheless, the Archbishop can make commands because he has that authority. He can even send a priest to Indonesia.
Is the archbishop equivalent to church. I beg to differ. Does the archbishop have to obedient to the Pope? In your posts you frequently say that the archbishop was chosen by God. Really. Does that go for all those cardinals and bishops and priests who molest children probably numbering hundreds. The archbishop talks to his flock in not only a condescending manner but without regard to other people in this community. The man who he labeled as a child molester from santa Barbara has 2 daughters . How does what he said affected them. He doesn't know or doesn't care. His character speaks volumes of the kind of person the archbishop is and I for one absolutely feel he was not chosen by God . Blind obedience to a man who treats people like that ...
DeleteDear Anonymous at 4:58 p.m.,
DeleteYou ask is the Archishop equivalent to church. The Archbishop is part of the Catholic Church and are the successors of the Apostles. You can find that in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
CCC 77 In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them their own position of teaching authority." Indeed, "the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved in a continuous line of succession until the end of time."
CCC 1554 .............Let everyone revere the deacons as Jesus Christ, the bishop as the image of the Father, and the presbyters as the senate of God and the assembly of the apostles. For without them one cannot speak of the Church.
You ask does the Archbishop have to be obedient to the Pope. The answer is yes. And yes, the Archbishop was chosen by God because their office was established by Christ. It was never established by man. And this is in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
CCC 862 ............. Hence the Church teaches that "the bishops have by divine institution taken the place of the apostles as pastors of the Church, in such wise that whoever listens to them is listening to Christ and whoever despises them despises Christ and him who sent Christ."
It is not for you to judge the Archbishop. It is up to God to judge him because it was God who appointed him, not you. The Catholic Church does not teach blind obedience. But you are blind when you go against what the Church teaches.
If you look at the Neocatechumenal Way with a "group" or "movement" concept, then you will see it unjust for the Archbishop to impose it at anytime. However, the Neocatechumenal Way is not just another group or movement. It is an Ecclesial Reality, a Charism and as the Popes have agreed, it is an Itinerary of post-baptismal formation valid for our times.
ReplyDeleteWhat I have to say about the NCW is very different from what I was saying years ago. This is because I put my judgement down and decided to go and listen.
I decided to listen to the recording of the "Meetings with the Nuncio" and it is very clear that the Chancellor and the Archbishop apologized if the Deacons had gone away with the impression of being forced to experience the NCW. Are they not satisfied with that apology?
I dont blame the Archbishop if he wants everyone to have an opportunity to experience the NCW. As our Shepherd, the souls of this diocese are his responsibility. If he feels that the NCW is something that we can benefit from, shouldnt he share it?
Sharing it is not the problem, it's imposing it. If the NCW is really that great which everyone can benefit from, why doesn't the Pope himself impose it like the Archbishop does?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:20 p.m.,
DeleteThe Pope actually supports all Catholic organizations, movements, and charisms. The Bishops are supposed to do the same thing.
Except ours takes it beyond merely supporting. He favors. To those who don't bite, he persecutes.
DeleteI guess it's in the name of God, so it's okay to persecute and slander priests.
Dear Anonymous at 3:31 a.m.,
DeleteThe fact that the Archbishop apologized to Father Paul showed that he recognized that slander was wrong. How is he persecuting him when he remains quiet?
Dear Diana:
ReplyDeletePlease correct your posting about my comments. This is the first time I have visited your site, and I have never posted here before, nor will I post here in the future. I am not Anonymous September 10, 2014 at 8:40 AM. Someone else has posted this entry using my name at the bottom. However, everything except the first paragraph was posted by me on JungleWatch. It is true that I was forced to join the NCW, along with 12 other men.
Although your comments seem to indicate to the contrary, it is a fact that I was obedient to the Archbishop and did join the NCW, Barrigada Community #8, in April 2003. As mandated by His Excellency, I joined the Way, even though I had been in the NCW previously (in 1999). I continue to believe that such a mandate was a violation of Canon Law and that participation in any movement cannot be required as a condition of ordination. Be that as it may, along with Deacon Jeff Barcinas and Deacon Peter Kaai we were the first three in our class to go to catechesis. The other men joined a later community at the Agana Cathedral. After our ordination, the Archbishop allowed us to leave the NCW if we so chose, and I chose to do so.
So please stop posting that we were disobedient, we were not. My comment was intended to clarify an Anonymous poster in JungleWatch saying that no one is forced to join the NCW. I hope this clears up the fact that the Deacon Class of 2003 was and remains obedient to our Archbishop. More importantly, I hope it clears up the misstatements often made by members of the NCW that no one is forced to join the Way. I was forced to join, and others have been as well.
One last clarification. I am not studying to become a priest. I am a permanent deacon, and my wife would have something to say about my change in status to become a priest.
Thank you for posting this clarification, and God bless.
Dear Deacon Steve Martinez,
DeleteI cannot edit any comments. I can only publish or delete comments. I apologize that an anonymous poster had used your name to post a comment under one of my posts. Therefore, it is a good thing that you came out and made this clarification.
I apologize that I did not know the entire story. So, you were obedient to the Archbishop when he asked you to join the Way. I applaud your obedience. And when he allowed you the option to leave, you took that option.
However, the anonymous poster who posted in the jungle was correct. No one was forced to join the Way. On the other hand, deacons and priests are different, and the Archbishop has the authority to even test whether you are worthy of the diaconate or priesthood. The possibility exists that God has tested you to see if you were obedient to the Archbishop. You were found to be obedient. As a result of your obedience, you were not only ordained as a deacon, but even given the choice to leave the NCW.
However, I find it sad that what you saw as "force" may actually have been a test of obedience by God. Did it ever occur to you that the Archbishop may have been correct when he said that you misinterpret his intention? If he was really forcing you to be in the Way, he would never have given you the option to leave. The fact that he gave you that option showed that "force' was probably never his intention.
So DELETE.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 3:29 a.m.,
DeleteI am not going to delete this post because this post is the cause of the other post. They are linked.
"Deacon Steve is pursuing to be a priest....."???? He is a permanent Deacon, and married. Roman Catholic priests can't be married. I think there a bit of confussion with deacon Steve becoming a priest.
ReplyDelete" Ubi Petrus ibi Ecclesia "
Dear Athanasius,
DeleteI do not know Deacon Steve personally. When he said "ordination" I naturally assumed "priesthood" since he is already a deacon. I was also not aware that he was married. A married deacon cannot become a priest.
>With all due respect, sir, if you cannot obey the Archbishop when he tells you to join the Way as a Deacon, then you should not be ordain a priest.
ReplyDeleteThat's the problem with THE WAY, it gets to determine who becomes a priest on Guam or not. NCW candidates get an easy path. Apuron fights non-NCW priests the whole way. It's the Way or a difficult, painful, and arduous way.
Dear Anonymous at 6:14 p.m.,
DeleteThen why give them the option to leave as in the case of Deacon Steve Martinez?
You either Catholic or NOT CATHOLIC!
ReplyDeleteIf you strongly believe that you are truly a Catholic, then you, as a Catholic should know that our priests and bishops are appointed by God. A Catholic believes this.
So Diana is right. If Deacon Steve cannot obey his Archbishop and respect him as his superior, then he really has no business becoming a "Catholic" priest.
When your employer tells you to do something, you do it, whether you think it is fair or not. Fairness is not the case here. It is obedience. If you can't obey, then quit.
Same with Deacon Steve: I pray that he thinks hard on what comes with becoming a Catholic priest. Think really hard.
Antoine,
ReplyDeleteNo other catholic diocese in the world required or "highly suggested" it's candidates to enter the way..
And how do you know this?
DeleteToo bad for them, every Bishop should be promoting something at the least. Its his duty as Bishop to be "requiring" or "highly suggesting" these things.
Naturally, any direction coming from those in authority will be interpreted with force. The incident with the deacons has been brought to light, the archbishop and chancellor have apologized for the misconception.
Maybe names of individuals, regular lay people who were forced to join would help to justify the accusation of the whole "forced to join" mantra. I highly doubt it, because you are specifically asked if you would continue.
Anon @7:13 Where did you get your info? Are you part of any Bishops Conference? USA? Oceania? Europe? I only ask because your statement is very rooted and only comes from one who actually knows, if it is from some article somewhere, please share. I wonder what other stats they have. I hope you didn't get your info from that blog that is very creative in releasing the minutes of meetings with the archbishop and likes to add their spin of events, even if it means making things up.
Is the Way Catholic? Here are some facts:
ReplyDelete1974: The Congregation for Divine Worship, while preparing the reintroduction of the catechumenate for adults (known as RCIA), publishes a laudatory note, “Praeclarum exemplar,” and settles on the name “Neocatechumenate” to indicate an itinerary of post-baptismal formation for those who are baptized but not sufficiently catechized.
May 8, 1974: Neocatechumenal Way is approved by Paul VI during a meeting with Argüello and Hernandez.
1987: John Paul II opens the first Redemptoris Mater seminary in Rome to prepare priests for the New Evangelization; today, there are 100 Redemptoris Mater seminaries worldwide, with almost 2,000 priests already ordained and 2,000 seminarians in formation.
1990: Neocatechumenal Way is recognized by John Paul II as “an itinerary of Catholic formation valid for our society and our time,” and an instrument for the New Evangelization.
1997: Pope John Paul II "encouraged [Argüello and Hernández] to examine their thirty-year experience of the Way, and to formalize it with a written statute," and then Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger urged the drafting of the Statutes as "a very important step that will open the way to the formal juridical recognition by the Church, and giving you a further guarantee of the authenticity of your charism"
1997: Cardinal Ratzinger ordered that the Catechetical Directory (all the catechesis given) be handed over to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for a doctrinal examination. The examination lasted until 2003, during which the Congregation made minor corrections and added citations of about 2,000 references to parallel passages in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
2002: The Statutes drafted in response were approved ad experimentum for five years.
June 13, 2008: Five Congregations of the Holy See — Doctrine of the Faith, Divine Worship, Bishops, Catholic Education, and Council of the Laity — approve the final statutes of the Neocatechumenal Way.
Jan. 17, 2011: Pope Benedict XVI approves the “Catechetical Directory of the Neocatechumenal Way.” Pope Benedict XVI praised the approval: "With these ecclesiastical seals, the Lord confirms today and entrusts to you again this precious instrument that is the Way, so that you can, in filial obedience to the Holy See and to the pastors of the Church, contribute, with new impetus and ardor, to the radical and joyful rediscovery of the gift of baptism and to offer your original contribution to the cause of the New Evangelization.".
Feb. 1, 2014: Pope Francis, meeting with about 12,000 members of the Neocatechumenal Way, sends 450 families in mission and 42 new missio ad gentes. Pope Francis praised the zeal of the Neocatechumenal Way.
April 3, 2014: The Vatican Secretariat of State sent a letter from the Holy Father to Kiko Argüello, initiator of the Neocatechumenal Way, along with Carmen Hernandez, confirming the liturgical praxis of the Way with regards to the Eucharist and the Paschal Vigil. In the letter, the Holy Father confirms that "as far as it pertains to the celebrations of the Paschal Vigil and the Sunday Eucharist, […] articles 12 and 13 [of the Statutes], read in their entirety, constitute therefore the regulatory charter of reference."
Is the Way Catholic? I think the answer is quite clear.
Vatican Council II, Lumen Gentium § 27 clearly states that each bishop is, in his or diocese, a Vicar of Christ. A bishop has "the sacred right and the duty before the Lord to make laws for his or her subjects, to pass judgment on them and to regulate everything pertaining to the ordering of worship and the apostolate." So, as hard as it may be for some to understand or accept, the Archbishop is the earthly representative of Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteHere is a clear example of this obedience from a Saint:
In the life of St Pio of Pietrelcina (Padre Pio) we discover that his Bishop, Archbishop Gagliardi, falsely accused Padre Pio of various wrongdoings, and had unjust sanctions imposed upon him. When people would speak against the Bishop concerning these unjust sanctions, St. Pio would quickly respond “The will of the Bishop is the will of God.” Conscious of the importance of obedience, Padre Pio was always showing an example of true religious obedience and respect to his superiors. For him, the superior was the image of Christ, and obeying him was obeying Christ. But it happened that God used Padre Pio's superiors as instruments for him to suffer from the Church, and for the Church. And so we see that even if the Bishop may be wrong in his judgment, we are always doing God's will by obeying him.
You can say St. Pio was crazy or an idiot for being obedient, but we are all called to do God's will. Doing so can make us saints!
How do we know it is God's will? When you do not accept the injustice done to you. Not doing God's will fills us with anger, contempt, judgement, envy, hatred. If this is how one feels for what is happening , then consider this from another Saint.
There are times when He Himself allows terrible sufferings, and then again there are times when He does not let me suffer and removes everything that might afflict my soul. These are His ways , unfathomable and incomprehensible to us. It is for us to submit ourselves completely to His holy will. There are mysteries that the human mind will never fathom here on earth; eternity will reveal them.--Saint Faustina
And from another Saint:
Every creature, whether it will or not, is subject to the one God and Lord; but a warning is given to us, to serve the Lord with our whole will, because the just man serves Him willingly, but the unjust serves Him as a slave.--Saint Augustine
A beautiful thing occurs when we discover we are fighting God's will ... We taste God's love and mercy.
God wills only our good; God loves us more than anybody else can or does love us. His will is that no one should lose his soul, that everyone should save and sanctify his soul: “Not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance.” “This is the will of God, your sanctification." God has made the attainment of our happiness, his glory. Even chastisements come to us, not to crush us, but to make us mend our ways and save our souls. --Alphonsus de Ligouri
Without Obedience, There Is No Holiness. Without Holiness, There Is No Salvation.---Saint Padre Pio
ReplyDeleteA Lesson for Catholics…Saint Padre Pio’s Last Letter
-------------------------------
September 12, 1968
Your Holiness,
I know that your heart is suffering much these days … for the lack of obedience of some, even Catholics, to the high teaching that you, assisted by the Holy Spirit and in the name of God, are giving us. I offer you my prayers and daily sufferings as a small but sincere contribution on the part of the least of your sons in order that God may give you comfort with his Grace to follow the straight and painful way in the defense of eternal truth, which never changes with the passing of the years. Also, in the name of my spiritual children and the Prayer Groups, I thank you for your clear and decisive words that you especially pronounced in the last encyclical “Humanae Vitae”; and I reaffirm my faith, my unconditional obedience to your illuminated directions.
May God grant victory to the truth, peace to his Church, tranquility to the world, health and prosperity to your Holiness so that, once these fleeting doubts are dissipated, the Kingdom of God may triumph in all hearts, guided by your apostolic work as Supreme Pastor of all Christianity.
Humbly yours,
Padre Pio,
San Giovanni Rotondo
By the way, one may ask who is this Fr. John A. Hardon, SJ? In the Church, he is considered a great master catechist (not a catechist from the Way), theologian, and Servant of God.
ReplyDeleteForgot to send this before the last post:
DeleteFr. John A. Hardon, S.J., wrote about an article called, "Humility and Obedience in the Priest." Here is a portion relevant for today, as it has always been. This also would apply to deacons.
"There is a long passage in the Second Vatican Council's Decree on the Life and Ministry of Priests that deals with the subject of their obedience, and it intertwines the practice of obedience with the virtue of charity. Certain key passages in that Decree bring to the surface important implications for priestly obedience.
Priests are told that, "The priestly ministry, being the ministry of the Church itself, can only be fulfilled in the hierarchical union of the whole body of the Church." Consequently, a priest is obedient and obediently working with and under and through the hierarchy, or his work will not be blessed by God. There is no such thing as a priest going off on his own, independent of ecclesiastical obedience, and expecting God to grace his labors. A priest is not ordained for himself; he is ordained as the Vulgate has it "ad alios", for others. But being a priest, he is not only ordained for others; he must also work with others, "cum allis", and those others are his fellow priests united under the hierarchy.
There is an important observation to be made regarding bishops, because all that I have said about priests applies, sometimes with greater importance, to bishops. The Church teaches that a priest must be united with the hierarchy to expect God to bless his work; that also means that bishops must be united among themselves as the successors of the apostles and under the Vicar of Christ. This condition is so imperative that where and insofar as a bishop is not obedient to the Vicar of Christ, to that extent he loses the divine light to know what to teach and what is most terrifying, he loses the divine right to command people. They are to obey him only insofar as he obeys the Vicar of Christ.
Second, priests are told by the Second Vatican Council that by obedience they dedicate their own wills to God. Obedience is the sacrifice of the human will to God. The dignity of any sacrifice is measured by the sublimity of that which is offered. There is nothing that man possesses that is more precious to him than his own will. This is the heart of the priest as sacrificer, because standing at the altar, though he does indeed offer the Holy Sacrifice, yet there he is only the instrument of the great High Priest Jesus Christ who is the principal priest sacrificer at Mass. But the one thing which the priest can most call his own, his own free will, is what he surrenders when he obeys. It is that surrender that is so pleasing to God and so demanded by God of the priest.
Third, priests are told to carry out obediently the commands and suggestions of the Pope, their bishop and their superiors. There are two profound insights here. The first is that perfect obedience in anyone, here in a priest, does not wait to be commanded. In fact, by the time a person has to be commanded, he or she may still obey of course, but that is not the main function of obedience, to give solemn commands. True obedience responds even to the suggestions or intimations of ecclesiastical authority."
Perhaps you need to look at Fr John Hardon's catechesis on the Sacrifice of the Mass.
DeleteDear Anonymous,
DeleteThank you for the referral. It takes a lifetime to learn all about the beauty of our Church and God's love. Having grown up a catholic, I always looked at mass as something I had to do - an obligation. If I didn't go to mass, God was going to be mad at me and then bad things would happen. Then as I grew and became older, and having been exposed to the world, I thought I had my own relationship with God and I didn't need the Church. All that mass stuff was just for the "religious" or for the "good people".
When suffering came into my life, I asked God why? I blamed God for the death of the loved ones in my life! Why did they have to die? They were good people! I demanded answers from God. Through this way, I discovered that I was asking God to serve me, not me serving God.
Then, through this Way, I discovered the beauty of the Eucharist! As Father John points out (I hope I have read the right article), "Before we look more closely at the Mass as a sacrifice of propitiation and petition, we should make plain that it is first and foremost, a sacrifice of praise (adoration) and thanksgiving." Wow - praise and thanksgiving! Imagine, where else could there be a place where heaven and earth and all the saints come together (with us) to give praise and glory to God?! I discovered this beauty that no longer do I go just to fill man "obligation", but to say "thank you Father for all that you give me, for all that you have done for me. I pray I never forget these memorials. If you give me something bad (as many may perceive when it goes against their human desire, like cancer), then it must be good because You willed it! May you give me the discernment to see your Son in the other and merciful to give me the strength to do Your will always, especially when it goes against mine!"
And I love this part:
Notice we use two words, propititation and petition. They are not the same.
The Mass is the most powerful means we have to obtain propitiation for sin. This occurs in different ways.
Through the Mass, God's mercy makes reparation for the want of divine love that we have shown by committing sin.
Through the Mass, God's mercy removes the guilt of repented venial sins and moves the sinner estranged from Him to return to God.
Through the Mass, God's mercy remits more or less of the punishment still due on earth to forgiven sins.
Through the Mass, God's mercy also remits more or less of the punishment which the souls in purgatory have to undergo before entering heaven.
The Mass is a powerful means of petition to God for the graces that we and others need in our pilgrimage through life.
Graces are necessary for the mind to know what is God's will and how it should be fulfilled.
Graces are necessary for the will to desire what pleases God, to choose what He wants us to do, and to sustain our choice by loving Him above all things.
In both ways, as a means of propitiation and petition, the Mass is a sacrament. It confers the graces needed from God's mercy to expiate the sins of the past and the graces needed from God's bounty to obtain His blessings for the future.
Wow! Look how much God loves us! He gives us this venue, this means, this opportunity, through His Son, to give Him thanks, to praise Him, to bless him. Then, at the same time, a powerful means to obtain propriation for our sins and a means to petition for His Graces, not only for me, but for others as well (especially those who may have wronged me)! Beautiful!
Again, my sincere thanks.
Diana - How many levels are there in the NCW? Is it nine? What are the different levels called and how long does one need to be in each level?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 9:41 p.m.,
DeleteI have only been walking for 8 years. I do not really care how many steps there are. Conversion is a life long process.
My take on this, since the Neoctechumenal Way doesn't use membership sign up sheets and doesn't take membership fees, the Archbishop telling one of his clergy to "join" (I wonder if this was really the word he used) simply means to attend the different meetings. It is as if my bishop told me to attend the meetings of any group in the parish. There people listen to the Word of God and pray. If a deacon is not able to do this much at the request of his bishop and goes on complaining about it in public forums (such as blog sites), not only he should not be ordained a priest; it was probably a big mistake to ordain him a deacon in the first place.
ReplyDeleteI understand if he doesn't like it. He may even express his dislike to the Archbishop. But, for crying out loud, he wasn't ordered to kill someone!
If he hates it so much, he could at least try to make it look like he obeys and do it in a half-ass manner: go to half of the celebrations, never prepare (just say, "I'll try to make it." and not show up. everyone will understand), never attend a convivence (of course, too busy on Sundays), smile and go home to do what he likes (watch TV or whatever). It would be simple as that. How can a deacon not have that much respect for the authority (not even the person) of his ordinary?
anonymous 4:58..........we started with gofigan, then to the Arch Bishop, then neocatechumenal way, then to benavente and the RMS, back to the neocatechumenal way and here we are back to gofigan. Why did gofigan disobey? As a priest incarnate in the Arch Diocese of Guam, sworn and taken the oath to obey....why did he disobey? Forget the Arch Bishop for a moment and ask these questions of the priest and his sworn responsibilities to God........not man.
ReplyDeleteIn what way did he disobey? He terminated the employment of that man as he was instructed. He agreed to the Way in his parish, only insisting that the NCW do as is required in their own Statutes. They didn't like that though. Hence his problems.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:36 p.m.,
DeleteJob termination not only means to take away his paycheck. It also mean to take away his title as Director and the job description that comes with it. That was not done. Father Paul agreed to the Way in the parish, but insisted that they do it his way.....the way he interprets the Statutes to mean to him.
anonymous 11:36...his solemn oath to God....not gofigan
DeleteDeacon.....I dont believe Barrigada 8 was formed in 2003. I also believe that you are not who you say you are
ReplyDelete10:16 PM you are righr. This is false Deacon Martinez.
ReplyDeleteIs it possible that he probably got his dates mixed up or perhaps got the communities mixed up?
ReplyDeleteWhether it is the true deacon or another person is not revelant; their false comment was exposed. Our God is the God of Light. We are the children of Light. God cannot exist in a heart that is in darkness.
DeleteI would go to jungle watch and the thoughtful catholic in an effort to counter their lies and misconceptions but only if rhor and white would publish my responses. Unfortunately that will never happen because to expose their ignorance of their faith would diminish their status. I believe that white is writing on your blog Diana. When a anonymous writer claims you are oversimplifyiny a point, that means that he is not coming to Christ as a child but one who thinks as a pharisee. They know all the laws. The problem is there is no legal representation in heaven.
ReplyDeleteI have personally entered into those sites on occasion, but do it very rarely now. The first time I did, my heart was so heavy, filled with sadness. I discovered that God allowed me to do so, so I can discover many of my sins - anger, hate, the desire for justice! I wanted to lash out! God allowed me to do this so He can pull me closer to holiness (and I am very, very far away from it). But I blessed God for this event - as I saw it was easy for me to see the splinter in the others eye and not the log in mine.
DeleteI have very little faith. If you compare it to a mustard seed, then I have no faith ... I guess I have no faith:) My faith is so little, non-existent, that I am afraid to go back into those sites as it is like a virus that will enter and attack what little faith I have. The good news is that it helps me to intensely pray the Our Father so as to not be lead into the temptation to do so:)
Years ago, when I just began this journey in the Way, this young seminarian (now a priest) on itineracy, once told me that the way to conquer evil is to respond with love. Love conquers all. After all, this is what our Master did! As He told us, "Love one another as I have loved you, so that in you, they will know you are my disciple."