Diana, I already gave you a solution. Get the leadership of both groups to meet and discuss their differences. We are all adults rooted in the Catholic faith and yet we can not get along. At the present time, which group is causing the division in the church. I think that AB Byrnes is an intelligent and rational individual. He can make his own decisions consulting the CCOG or the LFM. Did Ric Esebuios group or any member of the NCW tried sitting down with AB Byrnes to discuss any of the problems the NCW is encountering here on Guam? What about AB Apuron, where is he at? Why isn't he communicating to his flock here on Guam. I think there is a lot of problems the NCW here on Guam has to address and it starts with AB Apuron. Just saying.
This has already been done. On June 2015, there was a question and answer forum at the Toto Church between Archbishop Apuron and the parishioners. The parishioners were more interested in humiliating the Archbishop. One parishioner even called him a liar after the Archbishop answered a question. After listening to the question and answer forum with the Archbishop, these were some of the comments on Rohr's blog regarding that dialogue:
I listened to the Q&A on sound cloud.( https://soundcloud.com/immaculate-heart-of-mary/qa-session-toto-parish-6-15-15 )...We now can conclude that NEO CULT Chief Presbyter Anthony Sablan's Apuron is a deceptive liar when answering the questions from his flock. Could not help but to laugh when he stated that Very Reverend Monsignor James and Reverend Father Paul's Case is at Rome. We all know that it was never forwarded to Rome. Additionally, He stated that he is not forcing the NEO religion on anyone; everyone has the freedom to choose how to worship.... REALLY!!!! Then why are the local seminarians forced to be formed in the NEO/NCW CULT Seminary..... We all know where our future stands as we see the increase rate of NEO Presbyters being incardinated in Guam. The people will have no choice but to abandon the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and become a member of this NEO CULT. Wake up Guam and stop the money!!!
AnonymousJune 17, 2015 at 11:24 AM
The Archbishop does not have a spiritual bone in his body. And I have seen him in public many times over the years. He is as insincere and fake as they come.
AnonymousJune 17, 2015 at 6:47 AM
Wow! Toto Parish showed they got balls!! And apuron showed he doesn't have any!!
I can't wait for the report on the next "pastoral visit"!
I can't wait for the report on the next "pastoral visit"!
In April, 2016, Professor Giuseppe Gennarini (the head catechist of the United States) invited Tim Rohr to meet with him to discuss the issues he had with the Way and RMS. Tim Rohr refused. Professor Gennarinni also went on the talk show to answer questions. Bob Klitze, a member of the Jungle called up. During the course of the conversation, it was obvious that Mr. Klitzkie did not care to listen. He was told on air that he was holding the wrong document about 5 times. It was not until the next day when he realized that there was a new document and he was holding the wrong one. Another junglefolk called on one talk show to ask a question, which Mr. Gennarini answered. In a second talk show, the SAME person called and asked the SAME question. Apparently, some of the junglefolks saw this as a joke, asking the same questions over and over.
To bring some unity, we first need to understand our brothers in the jungle. The comments they make reveals a little of who they are. This comment taken from the jungle gives us some understanding of their mindset:
AnonymousApril 26, 2017 at 11:53 AM
Fr. Danny will have to prove his loyalty to Bp. Byrnes and that will take time.
There are a lot of Filipino priests where I live. Excluding 2 fine older ones who have lived in the US most of their lives, there are serious complaints about their poor training, lack of orthodoxy and extreme clannishness. Basically, only Filipinos like them and vice-versa. They don't like Americans and they tend to be Charismatic.
One high profile Filipino Pastor of a huge parish insists on using non-Catholic altar servers! To him that's easy evangelization and the bishop won't stop it. None of the altar servers convert. That same Pastor also has a thriving NCW group at his church. I went to 2 funerals there and won't go back.
There are a lot of Filipino priests where I live. Excluding 2 fine older ones who have lived in the US most of their lives, there are serious complaints about their poor training, lack of orthodoxy and extreme clannishness. Basically, only Filipinos like them and vice-versa. They don't like Americans and they tend to be Charismatic.
One high profile Filipino Pastor of a huge parish insists on using non-Catholic altar servers! To him that's easy evangelization and the bishop won't stop it. None of the altar servers convert. That same Pastor also has a thriving NCW group at his church. I went to 2 funerals there and won't go back.
There are many similar comments like this from the junglefolks, but they are not only targeting Filipino priests. They say the same things against priests of different ethnic groups. Therefore, many of the junglefolks are racists. They mainly favor local priests like Father Mike Crisostomo and Monsignor James Benavente who are not walking in the Way. Local priests who walk in the Way are also a target of their hate.
So, how does one deal with hate? We already saw that civil dialogue with them does not work. Appeasement also does not work. The only way to conquer hate is LOVE. That was how Martin Luther King Jr. did it.
When CCOG had demanded the removal of Monsignor David and the rest of the RMS priests from the councils, the mistake that Archbishop Byrnes made was giving in to their demands. He should have said, "Monsignor David is my brother. If you hate him, you will have to hate me too. We are brothers in Christ and united together in Christ." Can you imagine the effect and impact it would have if the entire council of priests stood up and told CCOG the same thing? If the clergy can show this kind of love, imagine the impact it would have on the laity especially the junglefolks. But that is not what happened. Instead, a priest wrote this in my blog (the bold is mine):
AnonymousJune 21, 2017 at 11:31 AM
Monsignor resigned from his curia office because it was the correct position to do so.
No one,including Diana,rejoices in the resignation of a priest.However,there comes a time in the life of we priests that for the good of Holy Mother Church we do remove ourself from situations where by our very presence is the cause of growing disunity to the Body of Christ.
The Monsignor made a good action infact he should remove himself from the Archdiocese for an extended time. That is not to say he is in any wrong it is simply the most prudent action to take for the good of Mother Church.
I hope others who need to resign/retire who are a part of this problem will have the humility to do so.
Fraternally, a brother priest.None Neo.
No one,including Diana,rejoices in the resignation of a priest.However,there comes a time in the life of we priests that for the good of Holy Mother Church we do remove ourself from situations where by our very presence is the cause of growing disunity to the Body of Christ.
The Monsignor made a good action infact he should remove himself from the Archdiocese for an extended time. That is not to say he is in any wrong it is simply the most prudent action to take for the good of Mother Church.
I hope others who need to resign/retire who are a part of this problem will have the humility to do so.
Fraternally, a brother priest.None Neo.
As you can see, there is disunity among the clergy. Removing a priest simply because he walks in the Way is discriminatory and an injustice. Whoever this brother priest is, he would have done better if he had stood up and said, "These priests who walk in the Way are our brothers. If you hate them, then hate us too. We stand together."
After all, that was what Martin Luther King Jr. did. He chose to go to prison with his brothers.
Whoever this priest is encouraging other priests to resign. He has a point. Suspect who he is.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteLong time problem in Guam that priests hate priests. They stab each other in the back. The problem is not NCW priests its local priests.
Martin Luther King Jr is not Catholic but he turned out to be a better Christian than our local priests.
ReplyDeleteAB Byrnes need to stop listening to CCOG He needs to turn to Jesus and make Jesus his guide not CCOG.
ReplyDeleteTwo local priests who constantly stab others in the back. Not Neo.
ReplyDeleteObservation NCW priests are all united together as brother priests supporting each other. No unity between local priests. Each going in their own direction.
DeleteI think we don't need to make a distinction between NCW priest and non NCW priest there are holy priest and not so holy priest group they belong to is irrelevant. NCW is a great tool of spirituality and conversion but ultimately men have free will and they can choose to use those tools or not to.
DeleteSame as non NCW priest, they have prayer and other sources they can use if they wish to or not. It is obvious and unfortunate that these priest did not have a spiritual life.
It has nothing to do with being in the NCW. Monsignor David's previous action on the publishing of a fake deed to the Yona Property not once but two times is what infuriated the Catholics in Guam. It was for that reason that Archbishop Hon reassigned him from the cathedral to RMS.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 11:24 am,
DeleteIt never had anything to do with the deed because CCOG also called for the removal of the other three RMS priests in the council. These 3 other priests had nothing to do with the deed.
So again....CCOG's calling for the removal of Monsignor David and the rest of the RMS priests in the Councils was discriminatory and an injustice. I have read the jungle, and they are calling for the removal of all priests in the NCW out of the archdiocese and out of every parrish. The calling of the removal of all priests who walk in the Way or who support the Way is based on pure hatred.
According to the Pacific Daily News:
"Concerned Catholics of Guam said the Archdiocese of Agana should be rid of five priests or ministerial officers who allegedly abused their power......
Sablan said Byrnes stands to lose all the goodwill he has worked so hard to get since his arrival on Guam with his appointment of Quitugua.
The four others Concerned Catholics said should be removed from the archdiocese are:
The Rev. Jose Alberto Rodriguez-Salamanca, appointed to the College of Consultors;
Father Adrian Cristobal, who refused assignment in 2016 as pastor of San Dionisio Church in Umatac;
Father Edivaldo da Silva Oleveira, assigned last year as Catholic chaplain of the Department of Youth Affairs and Department of Corrections in Mangilao, who was Apuron's close aide;
and Deacon Frank Tenorio, who defended Apuron when Apuron denied accusations of sex abuse."
"The calling of the removal of all priests who walk in the Way or who support the Way is based on pure hatred"
DeleteThat assertion has no value. The problem is that the NCW demonstrate loyalty only to the NCW hierarchy and leadership. History has shown that where there is a conflict, the priests in the NCW will alomost without exception choose the side of their NCW friends and leaders rather than their ordinary.
Dear Anonymous at 2:09 pm,
DeleteThe evidence of this hateful calling of removing all RMS priests and the NCW is found all over the jungle blog. There is also a petition signed by some parishioners in Yona banning the NCW from their parish. Where is your evidence showing that we are calling for the removal of all "non-neo" priests? You have none.
Huh? I questioned your assertion that the calls to remove "NCW priests" was based on "pure hatred". I don't think that the evidence suggests that it is "pure hatred" that leads to these suggestions.
DeleteInstead, as I pointed out, I think it is because the NCW members are beholden to their superiors (ie catechists), and priests that walk in the NCW are no exception. This is a clear problem if there are conflicting expectations or instructions coming from their Bishop or Ordinary, as compared to the instructions from the NCW leadership.
It is therefore a question of loyalty. In a conflict or contradictory situation, the NCW priests have demonstrated again and again that their loyalty is to Kiko and his group and not to their ecclesial superior.
So it is not hatred that drives the concerns and the actions, it is the realisation of the disloyalty of the NCW members.
And finally, why did you bring up an apparent lack of "evidence showing that we are calling for the removal of all "non-neo" priests"?
Did I suggest that the NCW was calling for the removal of all "non-neo priests"? No, I did not. That is simply your red herring, or your delusion, or something. Try to stay on topic.
Dear Anonymous at 1:26 pm,
DeleteThe only one who questioned our loyalty was the jungle. I brought up that up because you said it did not have to do with the NCW, but with the deed to the Yona property
Dear Diana, I am the anon at 2.09pm and at 1.26pm. But I am not the author of the post of August 31, 2017 at 11:24 AM.
Delete"The only one who questioned our loyalty was the jungle"
No, I think you'll find there are many, including the Archbishop, who a re not in the "Jungle" but who question the loyalty of the NCW priests and members. In fact, its obvious to anyone who cares to look, where your loyalties lie. Think of Jackie and the previous cemetery board, just as an example.
And, in any case, the person who posted the comment at 11.24am was implying that loyalty is the issue. They wrote that "Monsignor David's previous action on the publishing of a fake deed to the Yona Property " was the cause of the anger. Well, think about it. Why did Monsignor David do that? Obviously, because he was instructed to by his NCW superiors. And by his actions, he demonstrated where his loyalties lie.
Its not rocket surgery.
Dear Anonymous at 4:22 pm,
DeleteWho is the Archbishop who questioned the loyalty? When Archbishop Apuron was in charge, the NCW was loyal to him. The jungle wants to punish those who were loyal to Archbishop Apuron when in fact being loyal to him was never a crime. He was, after all, the Archbishop.
Have you noticed that when the Deed was corrected by having the Deed Restriction placed in, they still complain? The deed named the Archdiocese of Agana as the legal owner. You would think they would be happy to see that the Archdiocese of Agana was named the owner. But instead, they wanted it changed by having RMS placed as the owner.
Your showing that you don't want to talk to Rome because their is Rome who is the overall mother church it's not just Guam church like we always say that how we celebrate before Byrnes put all these sanctions on us that it was approved by someone higher then Byrnes and who just don't want to hear the truth
DeleteGod is one @5:19pm; Brother Tony said three years ago to the parishioners of Yona, when asked about the document that showed the Vaticans Approval for the way you celebrate the Eucharist. He stated that the document is somewhere, he will find it. To this day, we have witness no document showing the Popes approval for your way of worship. Maybe you can be Brother Tony's hero by showing the world the document that he has yet to find. Please share for all to see...
DeleteDidn't you hear what Byrnes said before he put these things on us yes he knows everything is approved and hi deacon Steve I know this is you because you just like destroying archbishop Anthony so stop destroying archbishop and plus we know archbishop goes to the jungle because he got caught redhandedly for his first interview with kuam when he returned to Guam and red handed when he said he knows that it is approved so peace I'll be praying for you to stop persecuting us and the archbishop Anthony
DeleteDeacon Steve or David Sablan hope you see what you guys are doing destroying the church
DeleteYes because the ordinary is not for the mission. Only for itself. The Way is not selfish with the good news that Jesus loves you.... to announce the gospel to the ends of the earth....following approved statues by the vatican..
ReplyDeleteAlso being obidient to the orinary bishop....in liturgical matters...
ReplyDelete(Please post this for Thursday)
ReplyDeleteByrnes is the only one who can shut the seminary.
He is the one who can expell priests of guam associated with the neo catechumeal way.
He is the one who can also expell the Way from the parishes.
If he does this then the blood of those souls who are deprived of the gospel preaching from the evangelization of the Way will be on his anointed head.
He can open a way of salvation. Or, for the sake of "moving forward", he can tell these poor souls to go to hell.
May God have mercy on the coadjutor.
Dear Anonymous at 6:44 pm,
DeleteYou stated: "....for the sake of "moving forward", he can tell these poor souls to go to hell."
Exactly what does this mean? What are you trying to say? The way to move forward is not to tell anyone to go to hell.
It's a play on the words of Byrnes. If his vision of 'moving forward' implies the closing of the seminary then it will entail the loss of many souls. When the diocese kills the seminary then we won't have priests to evangelize those who are lost. How many souls will be lost because the bishop decides to close the seminary and there are no priests to potentially bring the lost out of hell?
DeleteThe commenter was being facetious. Read the whole comment again to get the context of the message. The person is pro Neo and not telling anyone to go the hell.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 12:53 am,
DeleteThis is why I said that the first thing that should close are the parishes. That would make more sense. There are too many parishes for a small island like Guam and all of them are not filled.
There are parishes that can close. Other parishes combined.
DeleteWaste of resources manpower in 2017 to maintain a parish in each village. Close down parishes they no longer work.Reality now. New communties of Fellowship liturgy open to us. Old concept of parish is dead.
👍
Delete
ReplyDeleteExcuse me. RMS cannot be sold off without the approval of the Congregation for Evangelization/curia.
Archbishop of Agana requires consent of curia to sell/close down.
Wishes of Cardinal Filoni/curia important. Archbishop Anthony is Archbishop of Agana.
Diana I think that Byrnes writes in the jungle and he is giving things to Tim the horror because he is trying to hold on to his power the reason I say that he writes in the jungle is because his first interview when came back with kuam what did he say according to the jungle so Byrnes is trying to get the power of the archbishop
ReplyDeleteDear God is one,
DeleteI doubt that Archbishop Byrnes makes comments.in the jungle. He already has the Archbishop's power. What he does not have is his title.
Why do everybody say Archbishop Byrnes. Hear Pale Mike say it on KOLG. Is that his title or Archbishop Anthony . I'm confused.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 2:11 pm,
DeleteI also say it myself. Adding "Coadjutor" is a mouthful.
Roman congregations form a disastery of Roman Catholic Church.Congregations are led by a prefect cardinal.
ReplyDeleteCongregation for Evangelization of peoples is led by Cardinal Filoni. A wise holy man of great diplomatic service.
Unfortunate that jungle describes Cardinal Filoni/ congregation as "pathetic".
Congregation is responsible for mission lands of the church. It is highly valued respected by Pope Francis/Curia.
And by the way why is father Jeff Monsignor James and father paul still have their power in the chancery because I remember last year a month after he came here he said that when one administration is not in power they have change the people now Byrnes is here how do they have their positions
ReplyDeleteCongregation for the Evangelization of Peoples
ReplyDeleteArt. 85 — It pertains to the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples to direct and coordinate throughout the world the actual work of spreading the Gospel as well as missionary cooperation, without prejudice to the competence of the Congregation for the Oriental Churches.
Art. 86 — The Congregation promotes research in mission theology, spirituality and pastoral work; it likewise proposes principles, norms, and procedures, fitting the needs of time and place, by which evangelization is carried out.
Art. 87 — The Congregation strives to bring the people of God, well aware of their duty and filled with missionary spirit, to cooperate effectively in the missionary task by their prayers and the witness of their lives, by their active work and contributions.
Art. 88 — § 1. It takes steps to awaken missionary vocations, whether clerical, religious, or lay, and advises on a suitable distribution of missionaries.
§ 2. In the territories subject to it, it also cares for the education of the secular clergy and of catechists, without prejudice to the competence of the Congregation of Seminaries and Educational Institutions concerning the general programme of studies, as well as what pertains to the universities and other institutes of higher education.
Art. 89 — Within its competence are mission territories, the evangelization of which is committed to suitable institutes and societies and to particular Churches. For these territories it deals with everything pertaining to the establishment and change of ecclesiastical circumscriptions and to the provision of these Churches, and it carries out the other functions that the Congregation of Bishops fulfills within the scope of its competence.
Art. 90 — § 1. With regard to members of institutes of consecrated life, whether these are erected in the mission territories or are just working there, the Congregation enjoys competence in matters touching those members as missionaries, individually and collectively, without prejudice to art. 21, § 1.
§ 2. Those societies of apostolic life that were founded for the missions are subject to this Congregation.
Art. 91 — To foster missionary cooperation, even through the effective collection and equal distribution of subsidies, the Congregation chiefly uses the Pontifical Missionary Works, namely, the Society for the Propagation of the Faith, the Society of St. Peter the Apostle, and the Holy Childhood Association, as well as the Pontifical Missionary Union of the Clergy.
Art. 92 — Through a special office, the Congregation administers its own funds and other resources destined for the missions, with full accountability to the Prefecture for the Economic Affairs of the Holy See.