Monday, August 3, 2015

Catholic Revival In Northern Europe

Statistics have shown that Catholicism has increased in Asia and Africa: continents which are predominantly pagan.  Statistics have also shown that Northern Europe is becoming more and more secular as Catholicism decreased.  However, there has been a Catholic revival in northern Europe as the Pope sent itinerants and mission families there.  Because of this revival in northern Europe, the Devil is angry and is trying his best to destroy this revival.  The devil wants Northern Europe to be more and more secularized. The article below is dated November 29, 2014 (the bold is mine): 


Northern Europe has become one of the world’s least religious regions. British Prime Minister David Cameron, a Conservative, has legalized same-sex “marriage” and said that he opposes abortion. . .after twenty weeks of pregnancy. A decade ago, Scandinavian Christian Democrats, whose national flags contain crosses, opposed including references to Christianity’s role in European culture in the European Constitution’s preamble. In today’s Britain and Scandinavia, laissez-faire morality is the reigning political dogma and religious apathy is the dominant worldview.

At the same time, the state churches of the region have retained some social importance. In Britain, the queen remains head of the Church of England, while Anglican bishops are peers in the House of Lords. Meanwhile, polls consistently show that levels of trust in the Lutheran Church are high in Scandinavia. Most Scandinavians are baptized, married (if they marry – over  half of births are to non-married couples), and buried by state churches. In Sweden, most families light Advent candles and St. Lucy’s Day processions remain popular.

André Malraux predicted that the 21st century would be religious, or it would not be at all. Sociologists note that, even in secularized societies, people thirst for things spiritual. Despite the aforementioned social and cultural visibility of Protestantism in Northern Europe, however, the Lutheran and Anglican Churches there are dying. British sociologists predict that practicing Anglicans will soon meet the fate of the Dodo and woolly mammoth, falling from 800,000 to just 50,000 by mid-century (Episcopalians face similar disastrous prospects in North America). In Sweden, 4 percent of Lutherans attend services regularly, while the corresponding figures in Norway and Finland are below 2 percent.

By contrast, the Catholic Church is experiencing a mini-renaissance in Northern Europe. There are currently more practicing Catholics than Anglicans in Britain. In Scandinavia, there are about 600,000 Catholics, roughly 3 percent of the region’s population (a proportion similar to that of Catholics in Asia). Certainly, part of this has to do with immigration. Since the European Union expanded to include less prosperous former East Bloc states in 2004, Scandinavia and the British Isles have been deluged by immigrants from the Catholic nations of Poland (2.2 million Poles have left their country in the past decade), Slovakia, Croatia, and Lithuania.

While Mass is celebrated in Polish or Serbo-Croatian across Northern Europe, the region’s indigenous population is also being drawn to the Catholic Church. In the past decade, the number of British seminarians has grown fourfold. This cannot be explained by immigration (young Polish immigrants who enter seminary usually go home) or by short bursts of enthusiasm, such as that after Pope Benedict XVI’s visit in 2010, as this upward tendency has been ongoing for ten years.

Currently, Scandinavia is one of the most vocations-rich regions in the Northern Hemisphere. The Church has 103,000 members in Sweden and 17 seminarians. By contrast, the Archdiocese of Vienna has thirteen times as many faithful but fewer than twice as many men studying to be priests.

In 2009, the relics of St. Thérèse of Lisieux traveled across Britain, attracting the largest English pilgrimages since the Middle Ages. Young British Catholics are creating new initiatives such as the annual St. John Paul II Walk pilgrimage. The sacrament of reconciliation is making a comeback in the Isles: the number of British Catholics attending confession has mushroomed by two-thirds since 2010.

In Scandinavia, the Neocatechumenal Way – a mission-focused community founded by Spanish painter Kiko Argüello – is playing a key role in evangelization. Denmark, a country with just 40,000 Catholics, has 18 Neocatechumenal seminarians, while Finland, with just 10,500 Catholics, has 15. Meanwhile, a growing number of Scandinavians are becoming nuns; their number has inched up to 680. Cloistered orders are particularly successful in attracting new members. There is one nun for 880 Catholics in the region; in the United States, the corresponding number is one per 1,400. However, the number of American nuns is rapidly declining, while female religious are growing in Scandinavia.

Northern Europe is proving to be fertile ground for converts. In 2009, Pope Benedict XVI created the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham, allowing Anglican priests to cross the Tiber. Since then, many Anglican clerics, frustrated with Canterbury’s eschewing of tradition, have done so. Scandinavian converts are hoping that the Vatican will create a similar ordinariate for Lutherans. Meanwhile, one of Scandinavia’s best-known Christian leaders – charismatic pastor Ulf Ekman – recently converted to Catholicism along with his wife. He said that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is the best book he has ever read.

Northern Europe is clearly one of the world’s most Godless regions. Yet, at the same time, the Catholic Church, while a minority denomination, is experiencing a revival that only Counterreformation popes could have dreamed of. There is an important lesson to be drawn from this.

As Christ said, His followers are to be the salt of the earth. The Lutheran and Anglican Churches have long lost their taste. Other than some fading rituals, they have become largely indistinguishable from the broader secular culture. The fact that the Lutheran bishop of Stockholm is a practicing lesbian perhaps best epitomizes what has happen to Northern European Protestantism. Catholicism has always been countercultural, and while political climates and intellectual currents have changed, it has retained its belief in one moral truth. Despite the pressures by some Catholics, the Church has remained steadfast in its proclamation of truth even while that truth has been unpopular.

Many have jokingly said that the Church of England is the Tory Party at prayer. Today, the Church of England and Lutheran churches are secularism at prayer. From teachings on life and marriage to women’s ordination, Northern European Protestant churches have made it seem that morality is something changeable. This makes such churches seem less credible. Yet spiritually hungry hearts like Ulf Ekman and the ex-Anglicans Catholic priests want something more. They want a Church more interested being coherent in its teaching than in receiving praise in the New York Times.


  1. Hi Diana, what does it mean that the devil is angry? The devil is the evil in our hearts! There is no evil without us allowing him to come into our hearts. I look at our Christian brothers who follow Jesus with compassion. I am sure the devil is angry with them just as well, as with the Catholics. He is angry with Jesus. What do you think, Diana?

    As far as I am concerned, I don't allow devil to come into my heart. So for me there is no devil at all. He can twist and twirl about the world as much as he want, I just laugh and don't even give a hoot! How about you, Diana? Is there devil for you? Is there devil for the neos? How do you see devil, Diana, in your neo ways? Don't forget the devil is always in the details. How can the details be angry? Oops! Sorry, I am so confused again. Could you tell me then, dear Diana, who is the devil?

    Joane Santos

    1. Dear Joane,

      You stated: "As far as I am concerned, I don't allow devil to come into my heart. So for me there is no devil at all."

      One of the things the devil wants us to believe is that there is no devil. There is indeed a devil whether you believe in it or not. If you believe in God, then you should also know that the devil exists. To say that there is "no devil at all" goes against scripture. Scripture does reveal that there is a devil. According to the catechism of the Catholic, the devil is a PERSON:

      CCC 2851 In this petition, evil is not an abstraction, but refers to a person, Satan, the Evil One, the angel who opposes God. The devil (dia-bolos) is the one who "throws himself across" God's plan and his work of salvation accomplished in Christ.

      Joane, I highly recommend that you start reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Perhaps, then your confusion would be eliminated.

    2. But Diana, it is so confusing what you say. The devil is a fallen angel. Alright, I get that. Angels are pure spirits, the emanations of God. This is what I learned in catechism class. Divine providence allows angels to exist as emanations of the pure spirit of God who is the Holy Spirit in truth. When the Angel Gabriel announced God's act in Mary's womb, God manifested his reality by his emanation Gabriel. Becoming pregnant with Jesus is a true reality of God for the virgin Mary, isn't it, Diana? Who is the emanation of God if not Gabriel the angel?

      The devil became alienated from God, that is why he is the devil. He is of pure spirit too by the providence of God like all angels are. Angels do not interfere with people's life, they only announce the good news or the bad news, depending if you are a good angel or a bad angel that is the devil. If I do not take an angel to my heart then the angel cannot interfere with my life. If I do not take the devil to my heart, the devil is not there for me. Do you get that Diana?

      It is so confusing when you say the devil is like a human person squinting in my eye. How could he be? How can a pure spirit exist in the world tempting me against my own will if I shut him pout of my life? No Diana, he cannot. It is a just mystery but no reality. You can read the catechism as much as you want, it is still a mystery. A devil cannot be angry if Christians become Catholics. He is angry with Jesus and the followers of Jesus, it does not matter who you are. It is strange what you teach in the neo, dear Diana. I guess, you neos are confused about the devil, because you take him as a superhuman being, while the devil is only a pure spirit, an angry angel if you like. I am not that much confused as you might think.

      Joane Santos

    3. Dear Joane,

      You stated: "How can a pure spirit exist in the world tempting me against my own will if I shut him pout of my life? No Diana, he cannot."

      Jesus (who is without sin) was tempted by the devil in the desert, but He is able to overcome temptation. Humans, on the other hand, are easily tempted due to concupiscence. Are you now saying that you are no longer a sinner???

      Also, I never said that the devil is like a human person. I cited the Catechism, which says that the devil is a person. Do you disagree with the Catechism? Furthermore, I never said that I was confused. YOU were the one always claiming confusion, which is the reason why I recommend that you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Do you not remember what you stated in your own words.

      You were the one who stated: "Sorry, I am so confused again. Could you tell me then, dear Diana, who is the devil?"

      Nowhere in any of my comments did I ever say that I was confused. :-)

    4. Yes, Diana, I am confused. I never said otherwise. It is not because I do not know or do not believe the catechism. It is despite that! Can you believe confusion is there despite the catechism? The catechism teaches mystery. A mystery is confusing as it is not for your brain. It is for the brain of God who comprehends everything. We can only meditate on mystery.

      Jesus is the only God, He is one with the Father. Jesus knows everything about you and me. When He was tempted by the devil, He laughed if off, because He knew devil is not for real, only pure spirit as a fallen angel. So He could resist with no effort. That is how we reject the devil, with no effort. Then he is not even there for you, because he cannot, you shut him out! This is what Jesus taught when He was tempted in the desert.

      When you allow the spirit of evil into your heart then you open up to be a sinner. But if you shut out the devil, then how could you sin? Jesus showed you how to shut out the evil thoughts from your mind. Try to imitate Him. Then you are sinner no more. The Virgin Mary was the best disciple of Jesus, she shut out all evil from her heart. She was not a sinner. When you pray the holy hour at the Blessed Sacrament, you are surrounded by the saints who were not sinners. Those catechists who tell you that you are a sinner are the sinners. Sinners go to confession. Jesus tells you: go in peace and sin no more! I don't know who is more confused here, dear Diana. I am certainly not the only one.

      What is concupiscence? I am not one of those for sure. Lol.

      Joane Santos

    5. Dear Joane,

      You stated: "What is concupiscence? I am not one of those for sure."

      Concupiscence is something that we (including you) have. Concupiscence is an effect of original sin that remains after baptism. It is something that we struggle with. We all struggle with sin.

      According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

      CCC 1264 Yet certain temporal consequences of sin remain in the baptized, such as suffering, illness, death, and such frailties inherent in life as weaknesses of character, and so on, as well as an inclination to sin that Tradition calls concupiscence, or metaphorically, "the tinder for sin" (fomes peccati); since concupiscence "is left for us to wrestle with, it cannot harm those who do not consent but manfully resist it by the grace of Jesus Christ." Indeed, "an athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules."

      You also did not answer my question. Do you believe that you are no longer a sinner?

    6. You see, "it cannot harm those who do not consent". That's what I am talking about! You shut it out of your heart, then it cannot harm you. It is so in the catechism. Thanks.

      In the dictionary: Definition of CONCUPISCENCE : strong desire; especially : sexual desire.
      Well, I used to have that when I was younger. But not that often anymore. I can handle that stuff now pretty well. So no, I am not a sinner. When I am a sinner though, I go to confession. Thanks for your concern, but this is something between me and my priest.

      I sense a little confusion about confession here. What is the take of the neo about confession? How are mortal sins forgiven during confession? What do you do with the residue of forgiven sin? Do you pray for indulgence through the saints to avoid purgatory? Or do you teach concupiscense? Do you teach how "manfully resist it by the grace of Jesus Christ"? Or do you just accept concupiscence as something that cannot be overcome and and cannot be placed under the loving control of Jesus? I am confused about what you really say, dear Diana.

      Joane Santos

    7. I don't need the de_il to sin; I can do it perfectly by myself


    8. Dear Joane,

      You stated: "I can handle that stuff now pretty well. So no, I am not a sinner."

      The moment you say that you are not a sinner, you already sinned. It is the sin of pride. The only ones who can truly say that they no longer sin are those who are already in Heaven.

      Then you stated: "When I am a sinner though, I go to confession."

      The fact that you STILL go to confession is an indication that you are STILL a sinner.

    9. “The fact that you STILL go to confession is an indication that you are STILL a sinner. “ Why do you keep making this an issue while it is not your authority? Dear Diana, what is confusing is that Jesus took away our sins and you are still speaking as if He did not achieve anything. We have victory in Jesus who is my savior forever, thus we sing. What does the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ mean to you, dear Diana? Is it not sufficient to overcome sin? Did Jesus die for nothing then?

      I start to see what people say that the neo is judgmental. The catechism does not teach that we are irredeemable sinners. It is an invention of those who want to control you through your faith. John Calvin talked about the depravity of man. Then he invented Protestantism. Lol! Your catechists should be corrected in my opinion because the Catholic Church does not teach that we are sinners. Sometimes we are, sometimes we are not. You cannot make intrusion to the faith life of the believer by claiming sinfulness. I have already told you that my state of grace is between me and my priest who listens to my confession. Why do you want to interfere with this Sacrament that was established by Jesus Christ for His church on earth?

      It is not pride to say that I was forgiven by God. Jesus is the only God who is one with the Father and He tells me "go and sin no more". I listen to Him. There is nothing to be proud of when you learn the catechism of the church, attend the holy Sacraments and listen to Jesus Christ. It is so confusing that you insist to the sinfulness of the creation, including men and women, while you read and quoted CCC 1264. What is the interpretation of this paragraph in the neo?

      I just hope that you are sincere when you say you try to ease my confusion. Thanks.

      Joane Santos

    10. Dear Joane Santos,

      You stated: "Dear Diana, what is confusing is that Jesus took away our sins and you are still speaking as if He did not achieve anything."

      Christ took away sins that are in the PAST. According to the Holy Bible (Capitalization is mine):

      Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;

      If you have any PRESENT sins, then you should repent, confess your sins to a priest for the forgiveness of your PRESENT sins. As for any FUTURE sins that you think you might commit, they are not considered sins UNTIL you commit them.

      You also stated: "Your catechists should be corrected in my opinion because the Catholic Church does not teach that we are sinners.'

      According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

      CCC 827 ........." All members of the Church, including her ministers, must acknowledge that they are sinners. In everyone, the weeds of sin will still be mixed with the good wheat of the Gospel until the end of time. Hence the Church gathers sinners already caught up in Christ's salvation but still on the way to holiness: .............

      What you teach dear Joane is heretical. The Catholic Church instruct us to acknowledge that we are sinners.

      You also stated: "It is not pride to say that I was forgiven by God. Jesus is the only God who is one with the Father and He tells me "go and sin no more".

      I NEVER said that it is pride to say that you were forgiven by God. I said, saying that you are no longer a sinner is a sin of pride. The only ones who can truly say that they no longer sin are those who are already in Heaven. Christ can tell you to go and sin no more, but the fact that you still go to confession is an indication that you STILL sin. There is nothing wrong with saying that you are a sinner. Christ knows that as human beings, we would sometimes fall. This is why He instituted the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Through this sacrament, we confess our sins and reconcile back to God and His Church.

      You keep comparing the "neo" teaching to your so-called Catholic teaching, which you obviously do not even know. You did not know that the Catholic Church teaches that we are sinners and even instruct us to acknowledge that we are sinners. Rather, you preach something that is totally opposite of what the Catholic Church teaches.

    11. Wow, Diana, I feel truly honored that you call me heretic... Lol! This is something I have never done to your group. Believe me people say a lot of stuff about the neo at other blogs. I talk about Catholic truth we all learned about a long time ago. Are we all heretics then who were raised before the neo came around? I would like to tell you this, Diana: I don't teach or preach anything, I just recall what I learned in catechism class when I was at that age. I learned a lot from the priest who taught us catechism and I still remember his name. Do you remember the name of the priest who first taught you about Jesus Christ?

      By insisting that everybody is sinner all the time you push the envelope a little too far. Now, I start to see how the neo instills guilt to rein over souls. It is how you try to catch the fish, huhh? But it is not St. Peter's net for sure. Because he says: "As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”" (1 Peter 1:14-16) Are you listening to St Peter? My catechism teacher told me this about being sinful:

      You can say that everybody is a sinner sometime and
      at any time you can say that there are some who are sinners at that time,
      but you cannot say that everybody is a sinner all the time!

      CCC 827 only claims that you have to acknowledge of being a sinner when you are a sinner. This is what you do in contrition before and during confession. Even the Pope has a confessor. Once you obtain absolution in the holy sacrament of confession then you are not the sinner you were before until you sin again. It is like an alcoholic who sobers up. He is not the alcoholic he was before until he starts to drink again.

      I will quote you the Bible because I see you like quotes. I learned how to search and quote the Bible online, so I can do that easily. Claiming that you don't know the teaching of the church would be a mean thing, so I don’t say that. I just ask you, please, do not make more confusion and contradiction, because people are already confused enough about how God forgives the sin of the world upon repentance.

      "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, have mercy on us."

      Joane Santos

    12. Dear Joane,

      Please read what I wrote. I never said that you were a heretic. I said that what you teach is heretical.

      You stated: " CCC 827 only claims that you have to acknowledge of being a sinner when you are a sinner."

      No, that is not what it says. It clearly says "All members of the Church, including her ministers, must acknowledge that they are sinners." It does not say to acknowledge you are sinners ONLY when you sin. You are putting the word "only" in there, which does not exist.

    13. Dear Diana, we are listening the same words but hear completely different music! You did not answer my question: are we all heretics who grew up in Catholic faith before the neo came around? You acknowledge sin when you sin and go to confession. If you have never acknowledged sin, then you are a liar, because everybody sins sometime. But when you are absolved through the blood of Jesus in the holy sacrament of penance and confession, then who would still call you a sinner?

      In 1 John 1:8-10 you read: "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he (Jesus) is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." What do you think it means he will purify us from all unrighteousness?

      In John 8:34-36 Jesus tells you: “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." When you sin, then you are a slave to sin. It is the meaning of the word sinner. But when Jesus sets you free, you are not a slave anymore, but you are free indeed! How can you claim you remain a slave to sin, even a sinner, when Jesus died on the cross for you to set you free?

      CCC 827 quotes Pope Paul 6th saying: "The Church is therefore holy, though having sinners in her midst, because she herself has no other life but the life of grace." There are sinners in our midst, different people at different times, but we are not all sinners all the time! Please, contemplate these words. What is the life of grace for you?

      CCC 617 teaches you: ""The Council of Trent emphasizes the unique character of Christ's sacrifice as "the source of eternal salvation" and teaches that "his most holy Passion on the wood of the cross merited justification for us."" What does eternal salvation mean for you in the context of Jesus' dying a bloody death for you on the cross? How did His death merit justification for us? Are you justified?

      CCC 613 enlightens you further: "Christ's death is both the Paschal sacrifice that accomplishes the definitive redemption of men, through "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world", and the sacrifice of the New Covenant, which restores man to communion with God by reconciling him to God through the "blood of the covenant, which was poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins"."

      We do not say Lamb of God who TOOK away the sin of the world, we do not say in past tense. We say in present tense, Lamb of God who TAKES away the sin of the world! Romans 3:25 only reminds you that God forgave the sins of those who died before Jesus, because they were dead already and could not repent like the living. However, the redemption of Jesus' sacrifice is eternal, equally applies for past, present and future when you repent and confess you sin. Why do you want to reduce Jesus’ redemptive power by setting time limitations for the forgiveness of sins coming from His sacrifice?

      I hope you are satisfied now by the quotes I found for you from both the Bible and the catechism. I still cannot decide if you spread confusion unwittingly about the redemptive power of Jesus' sacrifice or is this a pattern of neo reinterpretation of the Bible for your own personal purposes. Pope Francis has a reason to ask the bishops to correct the neo catechists. Who are your catechists, anyway, have they ever participated in or passed through any formal education in the true doctrines of the Catholic Church? I ask this out of curiosity. Could you ease up the confusion, please, dear Diana?

      Joane Santos

    14. Dear Joane,

      Did I not tell you that you should confess your PRESENT sins so your sins can be forgiven? Did I not say that any FUTURE sins you think you might commit are not considered sins until you commit them? Did I not tell that the reason Christ instituted the Sacrament of Reconciliation is because He knows that we will fall time and time again? Are you saying that you are now holy and do not need the Sacrament of Reconciliation anymore?

      First, you argue that there is no devil.....when in fact the Catholic Church declares the existence of the devil. He did not just disappear out of existence. Then you argue about sin as though you are a holy one.

      It is more humbling to say, " Lamb of God, have mercy on me - a sinner" rather than act like the justified Pharisee who says, "thank you Lord that I am not like this sinner."

      I find it odd that you go through all this trouble to discredit our Catechists. You stated: ". Those catechists who tell you that you are a sinner are the sinners. Sinners go to confession. ". Our Catechists say that we are all sinners.

      Christ died so He can redeem mankind. He opened the gates of Heaven so we can have eternal life in Heaven. Before that, all the souls of the good and faithful could not enter Heaven. Their souls remained in the land of the dead. That is how Christ redeemed us. The rest is up to us. As St Peter said, "repent and be baptized so that you can also receive the forgiveness of sins." St Peter said this AFTER Christ had already ascended into Heaven. Surely, you did not think that your sins were ALREADY forgiven that you do not need to confess and repent?

    15. Ms is what the Pope says

      SEVENTH: The Neocatechumenal Way is the one that knows the most about the Christian Initiation. Consult them and, if necessary, correct the catechists, the communities…(because to correct is to love)…but correct with the Statutes in your hands.

      What statutes are your referring too?


    16. Ms or Mr JBS, why should I have any business with your statutes? It is yours, not mine. Wasn't the message for the bishops? I am a lay person.Why are you trying to confuse me? If your catechists must be corrected, it is not one me, but on the bishop! I only asked about the educational background of you catechists regarding the true doctrines of the Catholic Church.

      Joane Santos

    17. Dear Diana, let me repeat. You are a sinner when you are one and you are not a sinner when you are not one. You cannot turn off the time factor. Imagine of taking a picture at a given date every year. Then record your state of grace (in or out) and the date of attending the Sacrament of Penance the last time on the back side of your photo. After many years you will have a collection of self-portraits depicting your face in and out of the state of grace, in and out of communion with God. You will see the difference.

      When you are holy, you do not sin anymore. You can ask for the intersession of the holy saints for the forgiveness of sins. As in CCC 1475 you read: "Thus recourse to the communion of saints lets the contrite sinner be more promptly and efficaciously purified of the punishments for sin." The efficacy is coming from the blood of Jesus that was shed for all.

      John the Baptist already called on people to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins. But God could not forgive the sins until Jesus died on the cross. CCC 1449 tells you: "God, the Father of mercies, through the death and the resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself." The merits of his sacrifice are eternal, because He suffered and died for our sins. All we have to do is repent and accept penance. CCC 1460 teaches further: "Penances help configure us to Christ, who alone expiated our sins once for all." How beautiful it that, Diana? He expiated, paid it full, with his own life for our sins once for all!

      When you repent with contrite heart, confess and obtain absolution, you do not become a better person than others. Please, do not try to confuse me with this. You only lose you sinfulness until you sin again. This is the same with all the Holy Sacraments. When you obtain a sacrament like baptism, Eucharist, etc., then significant changes are happening inside of you. But you don't have reason to be proud. You don't become better than others, only a different person: you get a chance to come to God, who is Jesus Christ, and feel him in your heart. When you pray at the Blessed Sacrament, you are surrounded with saints who help you to experience God from within.

      Why do you say I try to discredit anyone? I am only asking about the educational background of your catechists. How is this discrediting them? If they say you are a sinner here and now, then they are probably right. But saying that everyone is a sinner ALL the time is certainly a stretch that reveals an intention of infusing undue guilt into the flock. I see that some of the confusion on my part is slowly clearing up. How about you, dear Diana?

      Joane Santos

    18. Dear Joane,

      You asked, "Why do you say I try to discredit anyone? I am only asking about the educational background of your catechists"

      The OP of this thread is about Catholic revival in northern Europe. I only said that the devil is angry because the devil wants the country to be more secularized. Then you come in and say:

      "I don't allow devil to come into my heart. So for me there is no devil at all. He can twist and twirl about the world as much as he want, I just laugh and don't even give a hoot! How about you, Diana? Is there devil for you? Is there devil for the neos?"

      Your statement has nothing to do with the OP. The Catholic Church has never denied the existence of the devil. You ask is there a devil for the neos at the same time that you claim that there is no devil for you. In this way, you are suggesting that the neo is wrong when in fact the Catholic Church has never denied the existence of the devil. You go on to say that our Catechists who tell us that we are sinners are the ones who are sinners instead. We are all sinners and always in need of Christ. Christ instituted the Sacraments because we needed Him. Furthermore, I never said that we are sinners all the time. I said, we are sinners.....period. That is who we are, and this is why we are in constant need of the sacraments. They say that Pope John Paul II go to confession everyday. We commit venial sins everyday.. However, these are very small sins, which the Eucharist can take away when we attend Sunday Mass every week..

    19. Diana, I am sorry to contradict, but that is not "who we are", perhaps who you are. I am not making statements. I only try to understand you. We, the elder generation of Catholics who were formed before the neo came around, like to stick to it what we had learned in the old times. Call me old timer if you wish. For example, we agreed that the devil is a pure spirit who "cannot harm those who do not consent" (CCC 1264). So in what sense could devil exist for you if you shut him out of your heart?

      I did not suggest the neo is wrong. We should be able to live with differing opinions among people in my opinion. There is no problem with that. It is called tolerance. The question is, if YOU can accept differing views from yours. Does the neo want to insert the Catholic faithful into its own mechanism and worldview? Or would we be tolerated? You called my view heretical suggesting that we old timers don't understand the teaching of the Church. I have never said anything like that to your group. But I am getting confused all the time when you claim something that is not so according to my old timer's upbringing. When I ask how we could be sinner ALL the time, you say we are sinners... period. Okay, but the question is still open. How can you tell the "what" but ignore the "when"? Don't you remember the example of the alcoholic who sobered up?

      You say you follow your catechist. I also do that. My catechist was a priest who was well versed in the Bible. I still remember most what he taught us. If your catechist tells you that you are all sinners and you agree, then what is wrong with applying this to the catechist?

      I am sorry if this is frustrating for you. All this could be avoided if you accept the views of others as valid for themselves for our times. I accept that the neo teaching is valid for the neo. What you describe probably applies 100% to your communities. Please, also accept that my old timer's view is valid for us old timer Catholics. Don't try to enforce your views on us. This is all I try to ask from you. I hope you don't get offended.

      Joane Santos

    20. Ms Joane

      Why is the educational background of the NCW catechist an issue?

      except for Paul; I don't believe any of the Apostles were educated by todays standard.

      please clarify


    21. Dear Joane,

      What I was trying to tell you is that shutting out the devil does not mean that the devil does not exist. People can also reject and shut out God, but God still exists. The atheists are people who do not believe in God. They reject God and shut Him out, but God still exists. It is the same with Satan. Both God the Father and Satan are pure spirit, and both of them exist as a person.

    22. Dear JSB @ 4:54 PM--
      Isn't the educational background important to you? Given the many different interpretations of the bible out there, wouldn't you want to know that your catechist is following the NCW's teachings? (in the interest of being consistent, that is.)
      At the time of the Apostles, their religious education came straight from Jesus, so no need to check on their educational background.

    23. Dear Ms or Mr JSB, I don't know if this is an issue for you, but for me it is only a question, nothing more. As Anonymous at 9:53 explains, it is important for catechists to have a good eduction in the true doctrines of the Catholic Church. It is the same with any area of education. You don't want to send your kid into a classroom with an illiterate teacher, do you?

      The apostles truly received the best education you can imagine. They had to because they were assigned to spread the teaching of Jesus. Have you been assigned to spread the Word? Then you also need the best education possible. As about catechists, where is their education coming from?

      One question that got me confused is about what I heard neo catechists teach that Jesus is the son of Abraham or the son of David. Is this so? How could He be the son of Abraham or the son of David, if He is the Son of Man and the Son of God?! He cannot be both! Or can He? I am looking for some explanation that could dispel my confusion. Thanks.

      Joane Santos

    24. Dear Diana, I agree, yes God is pure spirit! Especially the Holy Spirit. But God is also more than that. He is an all-encompassing being reaching beyond time and space. This is what I had learned about God. What is confusing is how a pure spirit can interact with the material world... God created the universe and material man after His own image. How? He also fathered the Lord Jesus through the Holy Spirit. This is beyond what a pure spirit would normally be able to do.

      Is the resurrected Jesus a pure spirit in heaven? Well, He ate fish at the shore of the Lake of Gennesaret and Thomas was able to touch His wounds. This is something you cannot imagine about a pure spirit. You see, dear Diana, things are always more complicated than they first look on the surface, it is no wonder and no shame that old fashioned people, and perhaps not only us, get confused so often.

      Joane Santos

    25. Ms. Joane

      the apostles by themselves could not do anything. I was not until

      Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you." And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit"


    26. Ms Joane......why is it that we believe in the SPIRIT of God but cannot see the Spirit working on the uneducated?

    27. Anon11:23AM, are you saying that those who are not in the NCW are uneducated where our religion is concerne? ARe you implying that we need for you to come a knocking at our door to teach us?

    28. in response to Anonymous August 8, 2015 at 11:21 PM

      did I say the NCW people are uneducated? Did I say that we need to come knocking at your door?

      Hope you are going to Mass this morning? May answer the ?????????? in your life

    29. Dear Ms or Mr JSB, I believe Anonymous 9:53 who said the apostles were educated by Jesus himself! It is the best possible education ever, isn't it? If your faith education is not coming from the words, sermons and parables of Jesus written in the gospels, then it is worthless. By the way, why don't you answer any of my questions? Don't you care...?

      Now about the great importance of good education. How could the education of catechists be unimportant? They teach our kids about faith! Our kids will grow up and formed in the spirit by what they hear from the catechists. A good catechist is like the voice of Jesus for the beginner Catholic. They must have firm and proper educational background about the true doctrines, it does not matter if they are regular Catholics or in the neo.

      The Holy Spirit is coming to bless us. The better is your educational background, the more the Holy Spirit can do for you! The Holy Spirit may change you in heart but cannot change your education. It is like making jewelry of the material you provide. If you have clay, the Holy Spirit makes a jewelry for you from clay. But if you provide gold, He makes it from gold! Now, which jewelry is more valuable, the one made of clay or the one made of gold?

      Therefore educate yourself so that the material you provide is more like gold than clay. Then the Holy Spirit will make you truly shine for the Lord!

      Joane Santos

    30. Ms Joane

      you appear to make a point in which there is a secularized standard for men and women who are disciples of Jesus Christ.

      we cannot in human terms or intellect understand the power of the Holy Spirit to change a human being; turning him or her into a living disciple of Jesus Christ.

      did the Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, and Essenes accept Jesus Christ? These people were educated and whose some members did not. They choose Barabba's.

      MATTHEW 13: 53-55.

      Would you know if Jesus Christ himself was talking to you Ms Joane?

      I value education to survive in the world; I place my faith in Jesus Christ to live; live in Spirit in the world.

      As for people teaching my children; I am responsible for teaching my children. My children will learn from my wife and I the way of Jesus Christ.


    31. Ms Joane

      A good catechist is like the voice of Jesus for the beginner Catholic.??

      I am sure when Jesus as a child spoke to the educated people in the temples; he was the voice of God his Father.

      this beginner Christian recognizes that God can speak to me in the voice he chooses...even a child's.


    32. Dear Ms or Mr JSB, were the Pharisees, Sadducees, etc. educated in the true doctrines of the Catholic church?

      What do you mean by secularized standards? I am confused about what you are referring to. If you mean that women should be protected from the overzealous religious who do not believe we are created equal, then I must agree. Women need protection from those who want to push us back to the kitchen. In that regard, well, I am definitely for the secular standards of inalienable women's rights provided by law.

      How do you "live in Spirit in the world"? Are you still tangible? Children have to go to school to learn required by law. Won't they learn a lot from their teachers and instructors? They need to learn to understand the world and to be themselves wherever they go. This is the whole purpose of schools, public or private, isn't it?

      Sometimes when you think God is talking to you, it might be your own mind deceiving you. God is not pandering to human beings. Jesus talks to us through the gospels. If something is not in the gospels, then how could it be about Christ? You need to stick to the Bible, otherwise you can get confused, as I myself do so often. I share how I see it anyway so to invite others to do the same. I hope nobody gets offended.

      Joane Santos

    33. If you have clay, the Holy Spirit makes a jewelry for you from clay. But if you provide gold, He makes it from gold! Now, which jewelry is more valuable, the one made of clay or the one made of gold?

      I don't believe the Holy Spirit makes jewelry Ms. Joane. I can only pray every morning that the Holy Spirit can sustain me in the Spirit of Jesus Christ. If only for today; I beg you to live today in communion with Jesus Christ.



    34. Christ has risen Ms Joane...truly risen...... and he wants you to know that he love's you.

      lets restart and end with is enough


    35. Christ is risen, indeed, Hallelujah! Love is wonderful. But is it sufficient if you do not make the right effort? One of my favorite songs is "Jesus loves me" by Whitney Houston. Just beautiful, isn't it? She knew love, still she succumbed to a wicked fate and died young. Even her daughter... My heart is broken by these fine young ladies who knew the love of God, still perished.

      Dear Mr JSB, now I see you must be a male as you do not reflect on women's rights. Is this not what men always do? I know you guys just run and hide when you face true girl power. Lol... But is it smart to be silent? I assure you the issue of women's rights just won't go away. As long as the world is round, women always will be!

      Seriously, God made man and woman on God's own image, so God must be both man and woman! It is so straightforward. Nowhere, not on any page the Bible says God must be male. I think God is actually above the sexes and thus God provides equal rights to women.

      Are you despising my many questions, dear Mr JSB? There is none among my questions that you had ever responded to! Why? Is this because nothing might be important that a confused lady asks from a self-confident man, who is of course "the crown of creation"?! Well, this is a world of male dominance, I understand. Especially if your religious group tells you women are inferior to man. I hope it does not, though.

      By the way, the jewelry is what you yourself become when you allow the Holy Spirit to lead you on. The Holy Spirit does make jewelry out clay that we are. That's why we educate ourselves in true Catholic doctrines of the church, purify the clay to make it silver or gold, each according to her/his abilities, so that when the Holy Spirit comes we may shine. As Zechariah says in 13:9:

      And I will put this third into the fire,
      refine them as one refines silver,
      and test them as gold is tested.
      They will call on my name,
      and I will answer them.
      I will say, “They are my people”;
      and they will say, “The Lord is our God.”

      Joane Santos

    36. No Ms. Joane,

      what is difficult is that your comments; counter comments are fragmented.

      If you want to dialogue about the risen Christ; let us do so until their is a mutual understanding.

      If you want to dialogue about women's rights; let us do so in earnest.

      I do not despise your questions; but there needs to be an open mind to the Word of God.

      I don't even know if you are Catholic.

      You speak about my religious group but don't appear to know anything about my religious group.
      Why? With this though in mind; it is like me talking about stepping on the moon. Never been there, never will but what motivates me to speak about a religious group if I don't know anything factual about the religious group.

      as for cannot package your argument into one verse of Scripture.

      try this.....MK 9.....This is my Son...listen to him

      JOHN 2.....His mother said to the servants, do whatever he tells you


    37. Dear Mr. JSB, I am getting rid of toxic people in my life. If you can't respect me as your equal, appreciate my view, then you don't deserve my time & commitment.

      Joane Santos

    38. Ms. now we are talking about toxic people.....good and bad.

      Jesus was the only good human person that walked on this earth.

      May explain why the Church exist....for the bad people.

      Good people don't need the Church....they can move mountains...walk on water.

      You are right to say that I do not deserve.....yes....I do not deserve the love of Jesus Christ.

      I am also not your equal as I pray that other's are more recognized....acknowledged than me.

      May the Peace of our Lord always be with you Ms. Joane.



  2. Diana what is your concept understanding of God?

    1. Dear Santiago Flores,

      God is our Father, and He is Love.