During the Lenten announcement, a letter was read to the communities. Kiko Arguello had written a letter to Pope Francis because some of the things he stated on his February 1st address were taken out of context. The Pope then wrote to Kiko, assuring him that he stands beside him. This event has now been published on May 16, 2014. One can read the full story below: Pope Francis Backs the Neocatechumenal Way
According to the news report (the bold is my emphasis). I also underlined Paschal Vigil:
The Vatican Secretariat of State sent a letter on April 3rd from the Holy Father to Kiko Arguello, initiator of the Neocatechumenal Way, along with Carmen Hernandez, confirming the liturgical praxis of the Way with regards to the Eucharist and the Paschal Vigil.
In the letter, the Holy Father confirms that "as far as it pertains to the celebrations of the Paschal Vigil and the Sunday Eucharist, [...] articles 12 and 13 [of the Statutes], read in their entirety, constitute therefore the regulatory charter of reference."
This letter was in response to a letter sent previously by Kiko Arguello in which he told the Pope of his concern about several negative interpretations of the words of the Holy Father addressed to a group of some 12,000 neocatechumens on February 1st, 2014.
In his response, Pope Francis not only confirmed the full validity of the Statute of the Neocatechumenal Way, but acknowledged "the evangelizing dynamism of the Neocatechumenal way, the experience of authentic conversion of life of so very many faithful, and the fruits of good generated thanks to the presence of the communities all over the world."
The Pope confirms his "paternal closeness" and sent "loving encouragement to [Arguello] and to all adherents to the Way." The letter concludes assuring the initiator of the Way of the "closeness" and "memory in the Lord" of Pope Francis, while sending "from his heart to you, to the International Team and to all the adherents to the Neocatechumenal Way, his Apostolic Blessing."
As I have been saying all along..... because the Statutes mentions the Easter Vigil, this is already an indication that the Holy See has allowed us to celebrate the Easter Vigil and that our Easter Vigil is one with the Easter Vigil of the Parish. Yet, those who oppose the Way constantly cite Church law in the GIRM or the Roman Missal, which stated that there is to be only ONE Easter Vigil.
So, to those who accused the NCW of going against Church law in the GIRM because you state that "there should only be ONE Easter Vigil".......I "RECOMMEND" that you take it up with the Pope who has confirmed our celebration of the Easter Vigil as well as the Eucharist.
To the brothers in the Way, celebrate!!!! Pope Francis has given us his APOSOLIC BLESSING!!!
To the anonymous person who wrote me, I thank you for your comments. I did not publish it as I see that it was meant for me alone. You are correct that they have already made up their minds. I appreciate your sound advice. God bless you for keeping me on a straight path.
This only goes to show that news agencies have been infiltrated by NCW sympathisers. Nowhere in the Archbishop's letter (note, the Pope did not write the response to Kiko), does it confirm the questionable practises of the NCW liturgies. On the contrary, the letter does not back down on the pope's words from February, rather, it reinforces them. The Archbishop's letter merely points to the relevant articles of the Statutes - which of course, critics of the NCW would say are not being followed correctly anyway.
ReplyDeleteTo recap,: the Archbishop (or the Pope for that matter) does not ever say that the Paschal Vigil should be celebrated separately, nor does he confirm any other spurious claim you have made regarding the liturgy and the manner of receiving communion. Why not? If this was the intent of the letter, why wouldn't the Archbishop ( or the pope for that matter) make it very clear that these practices are approved?
The letter seems to reaffirm that the NCW should modify its practices if ecclesial unity is threatened, and there is no further clarification of what is meant by "details" , despite that being Kiko's main problem, as indicated by his letter to the Pope.
Here lies the problem. You get the facts you want, but yet, you do not accept it.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:18 a.m.,
DeleteThe Pope did write that response to Kiko, and the brothers who attended the Lenten Announcement knew about it because that letter was read. So, we knew about it before it hit the news and the Internet. The fact that the Archbishop through the Pope mentions the Pascal Vigil already shows that we are to celebrate the Easter Vigil just as it is in our Statutes. If you have a problem with that, you can fly to Rome and make an appointment to see the Pope.
Can you please post a link to the Pope's letter? So far, we have only seen the Archbishop's letter. Thanks
DeleteDavid, you assert that I "get the facts [I] want". What facts are those?
DeleteCan you quote me the bit that "backs the liturgy"?.
Or even the bit that indicates the pope's approval of the separate vigil celebration?
In my view the headline does not reflect the content of the letter. Once again, I'd ask, why wouldn't the Archbishop (or the pope for that matter) make it very clear that these practices are approved? It seems like the perfect opportunity to do so. (Note: I don't expect to get a straight answer. It seems that there are no straight answers on this blog. Logic takes a crooked and creative path here it seems).
David is correct. Information has been given to you, but you refuse to accept it. What good is even having information given to you? After all Tim Rohr changed the word "recommend" in the Pope's letter to "rebuke" and Kiko's letter has been labeled an "act of disobedience" rather than a disagreement. As David said, the information has been given to you, but you cannot accept it. You only see what you want to see.
DeleteThe fact that our Statutes already states Article 12 of the Pascal Vigil already implies that we are to celebrate the Easter Vigil in the Neocatechumenal Way according to what was given to us. Yet, you refuse to accept it. This is why I said, you need to fly to Rome and schedule an appointment to meet with Pope.
Diana, I pity you. I'm not sure whether you are merely stubborn or genuinely confused, but the Paschal Vigil predates the Neocatechumenal Way. "What has been given to us" is the faith of the Church, not Kiko's particular preferences. This is the total mention of the Paschal Vigil in your Statutes:
Delete§ 1. Axis and source of Christian life is the paschal mystery,
lived and celebrated in a pre-
eminent way in the Sacred Triduum,
42
whose brilliance fills the whol
e liturgical year with light.
43
For this reason, it constitutes the
fulcrum of the Neocatechumenate,
since this is a rediscovery of
Christian initiation.
§ 2. “The Paschal Vigil, focal point of the Ch
ristian liturgy, and it
s baptismal spirituality
inspire all Catechesis.”
44
It is for this reason that during the itinerary, the neocatechumens are
initiated gradually
45
into an ever more perfect participa
tion in all that the holy night signifies,
celebrates and realizes.
§ 3. In this way, the Neocatechumenate will stimulate the parish to have a richer celebration
of the Paschal Vigil.
There is nothing here to indicate that the Vigil should be celebrated apart from the parish, in fact, the mention of the parish suggests quite the opposite. The words here are virtually the same as you will find in the RCIA, because, as everyone knows, the Paschal celebrations lie at the heart of our faith. Why is it a better thing for the NCW to have its own Vigil celebration. I would suggest that this might be one of those 'details' that are better left out, for the good of ecclesial unity
Dear Anonymous at 12:42 p.m.,
DeleteWhy are you only quoting half my sentence? I never said that the Paschal Vigil was given to us. I said "The fact that our Statutes already states Article 12 of the Pascal Vigil already implies that we are to celebrate the Easter Vigil in the Neocatechumenal Way according to what was given to us." To put it in simple terms......because the Statutes mentions how we are to celebrate the Easter Vigil means that we are authorized by the Pope to celebrate the Easter Vigil in the Neocatechumenal Way. However, since you cannot accept it, you need to fly to Rome and make an appointment to see the Pope.
"because the Statutes mentions how we are to celebrate the Easter Vigil means that we are authorized by the Pope to celebrate the Easter Vigil in the Neocatechumenal Way"
DeletePlease quote where the statutes say how you are to celebrate the Vigil. Thanks
Dear Anonymous at 4:54 p.m.,
DeleteThis is taken from the Table of Contents:
Chapter III: Word, Liturgy and Community
Section 1 Word of God
Article 11: Weekly celebration of the Word
Section 2: Liturgy
Article 12: Paschal vigil
Article 13: Eucharist
Article 14: Penance, prayer, liturgical year, practices of piety
Section 3: Community
The Neocatechumenal Way consist of a tripod, which makes up three parts. These three parts are: :Section 1: Word, Section 2 Liturgy, and Section 3 Community. These are the three parts that make up the entire tripod. Under Section 2, the liturgy that the Way are allowed to celebrate is already in our Statutes, and the Paschal Vigil is listed as one of them along with the Eucharist and Penance.
Again, if you cannot understand this, please book a flight to Rome and schedule your appointment to see the Pope.
You are most welcome :) I am not in the NCW and I don't know you nor do you know me (at least to my knowledge), but I can see your zeal in your love for the Lord. If the NCW leads you closer to Christ and has the full support of Papa Francis, then no one can take that away from you or the others. As your in Christ, I wish you all the best and will pray for you. Show that light which you have found in the NCW through your blog and try always, though difficult, to take the higher road. Hold your other brothers who comment here to that same standard as well.Lastly, as a personal request, I humbly ask to please say a pray for me.
ReplyDeleteShalom Aleichem!
Dear Anonymous at 12:04 p.m.
DeleteAlthough I do not know you, but I will pray for you. God knows who you are. Again, thank you for keeping me on a straight path. :-)
Again the Law Man's legion smeared with mud. It was written facts. The fact of the matter is it boils back to Gofigan's dismissal. That is why hate in their heart brew so much. Look now Tim even encourages not to adbertise in Umatuna because it's controlled by the WAY. What is that slander? Then encourage everyone not to purchase any books in his stores.
ReplyDeleteGino - Sinajana
You should know that the bookstore that you refer to for boycotting is ALSO owned by the Archdiocese. You should really do some research before you do more damage.
DeleteYes, we have every reason to celebrate, dear Diana! Those who have hate in their hearts will not celebrate with us. They prefer to stay away from the joy of the Lord and continue hating. How sad. Jesus told of them "there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". I wish they would listen to the Lord.
ReplyDeletehttp://neocatheart.blogspot.com/2014/05/my-sweet-lord-part-2-tim-rohrs.html
Dear Zoltan,
DeleteWe should not be disturbed by those who oppose us. Whatever they feel about us and the Archbishop is really their problem. Many times, we learned in the Way that the problem is not outside of us. The problem is inside of us. Even Jesus said that all hatred, jealousy, envy, anger, idoltry, etc. all come from the heart of man.
Many who oppose the Way feel that the Archbishop does not pay attention to them. Thus, the problem was never the Archbishop, but what was in the heart of those who stand against.us. They crave the Archbishop's attention, and this craving in their heart for attention is their problem.
Zoltan,
DeleteI read your paper published on Jungle Watch; It's really bad and along the same lines as the comments you post on blogs.
??? I don't publish anything on JungleWatch! Why do you ask ??? Lol!
DeleteDear Zoltan,
DeleteIt is good that you no longer publish anything there anymore. It is not always easy to let things go, and this is where we need to pray. Pray to God to bring you peace of mind. Peace be with you and with your spirit.
Diana,
DeleteThanks for being upfront with all your comments and the comments of your readers. For the love of my neighbor I cannot stay away from junglewatch. It is very disheartening to see people being fooled by that blogsite, therefor I continue to comment on issues that I do have evidence to substantiate my comments. The latest entry on Purgatory, I shared with readers what I have learned in the community and through the catechesis on the subject of Purgatory. I commented to share that their claims against the NCW teaching is false. The blogsite owner then commented that I was revealing the truth that the NCW does teach against the CCC in regards to Purgatory. I then shared that not only does the NCW teach what I have shared but that also Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI in a Book on Eschatology shares the same views. The owner of that blog has yet to post up my comment on Benedict XVI and the many other comments that I have provided evidence for. This was not the first time that this has happened but then again this is the advantage he has over me by owning the blogsite.
What he and many others dont realize is that the online sources from where he obtains "copies" are all from anti-NCW sites. He is obsessed with obtaining a copy and disappointed that the Catechetical Directory is not available for him, he repeats all the time about the secrecy of the NCW. Which in fact there is no secrecy, I had to learn this by finally walking in a community.
I shared with him months ago that the Catechetical Directory is not available to anyone except those who are catechists. I explained that asking for the Directory is like asking the cursillos for their scripts that they teach at their retreats. I was then criticized for being anti-cursillo. However, unlike the NCW where the Directory was approved by Rome and as a result of this approval, the footnotes of references to the CCC where aligned accordingly throughout the Directory. For example the Cursillo Movement instructs those who are assigned to give "teachings" or "talks" what they refer to as "Rollos", these people are instructed to not add or take away anything from these scripts. The scariest thing in the cursillo is that no one knows who wrote these scripts and not a single one refers to the CCC. I dont have anything personally against the Cursillos but if Tim wants to talk about division and heresy and so on.....well let me be the first to share that I was a regular supporter of the Cursillo Movement and as long as they kept me informed of happenings, I was there in full support. This all changed when news came that I had began to experience the NCW, I no longer get calls for updates on activities. You see I speak to Tihm on things that I have first hand knowledge of but he always denies it. Just like how I know for sure that the group of people who now lead the Cursillos are actually men who were in the Diaconate Program in the Archdiocese. These men now hold leadership roles in the cursillo. They only joined the Cursillos as a fall back when they dropped out of the Diaconate program. The reason they dropped out? Well according to a conversation I had with one of these men during my initial Cursillo Weekend, they were asked to go and experience the "community of the NCW" and they refused. I always wondered why he had to share this with me, now I realize that he was trying to spread a negative connotation and that he was really just out there to try and get the cursillos to rise above the neo numbers. Thats enough with the Cursillos though.
Conitue...
continued...
DeleteNow to the TLM which I also have first hand experience with people who are regular attendees there. I was once told that I can only fully worship God at the TLM. I wasnt even in a community at that time but I knew very well that this was not true. Now that I hear the criticisms against people in the NCW who come off like this, I am constantly reminded of the attitude also of those who attend the TLM. I once asked Tihm, why is it wrong for the NCW but okay for those who prefer the TLM to be like this? Again, he didnt post my comment. I know the TLM is not a movement or group of the Church but those who attend that Form of the one Rite, tend to reveal themselves as individuals who know more and are at a higher level than those who attend a parish mass. I was once told that heaven can only be found during a TLM, what? hello! Tihm went on to say that most of those who attend the TLM were kicked out of their parish. Well I know first hand experience that no one is ever kicked out, you removed yourself, and what it comes down to is that you probably didnt get what you wanted. I know of a situation where some people who were involved in a particular parish on Guam where asked to step down but only because they were already forcefully imposing their personal practices onto others and requiring it at that too. Because of the patrons of the TLMs forceful tactics I decided to challenge Tihm because he claims that the NCW forces themselves onto others, this is not true, if this was the case I would have been in a community way longer, but I was never forced.
You see I am not new to the righteousness of Tihm. I also witnessed an online debate between Tihm and Chuk in response to a comment made from Father Mike in regards to the same attitude I have shared of the TLM patrons. Well, Im pretty sure that they have made peace by now but you should have seen the viciousness of the two when challenged by the Priest Mike. This comment was again denied by Tihm and was not posted.
I hope those of you really see who is fooling who. This is why Diana, this is why I cannot stay away from junglewach. It is not fair for the faithful to be fooled by these individuals who think that they are at the top of the list of those entering heaven. How I wish I was there too, but I can wait at the end of the line.
Its constantly being shared on junglewach that we must be attentive to the wolves in sheepskin and that it was said that there will be one who will try to destroy the church from within. Well, I dont think it is the NCW, because according to Tihm the NCW are not within, we have excluded ourselves.
Sorry for taking up alot and this post will probably invite a long line of people who will challenge my anonymity but I only do this to reveal the truth about the tactics of junglewach and the truth that the NCW has been a great source of strength in my life now. Tihm always thinks Im Fr. Adrian or another priest who is in the know-how but I am a witness to the reality that one does not to be a College Graduate or an apologetic or even an ordained minister to speak of Truth. I am a Son of God, who takes the initiative to know more and grow in faith until the day I see God face to face.
Dear Anonymous at 2:34 a.m.,
DeleteI am aware that all the things he post on his blogsite are all from anti-Catholic websites. I have seen the latest one on "Purgatory." Tim Rohr has never been to a catechesis to see for himself what the Way actually teaches. His followers are being deceived by someone who has never been to a catechesis and only gets his information on anti-Catholic websites. I call them anti-Catholic because those walking in the Way are Catholics.
I chose not to post in Junglewatch because I already saw the results. Because I walk in the Way, I have first hand experience of what I hear in the catechesis and of what the NCW teaches. Tim Rohr did not want to hear about it. Instead, he focused on trying to figure out who I am. Like you, they also accused me of being a priest, Some of them actually think that I am a male,
Tim Rohr and his followers are not interested in true dialogue. They only look at what is written down. They don't even know that the Japanese Catholics in Japan also have permission from the Pope not to kneel in adoration to the Blessed sacrament despite that it is not written down. In Japanese culture, kneeling is the same as sitting and considered rude. So, they are allowed to stand. But Tim Rohr would accuse them of going against Catholic teaching.
So provide proof to your opinions.
DeleteZoltan,
DeleteI'm not asking, I'm sharing with you that I read your paper, and that it was really bad. Not that you posted anything. Hopefully it's just a language barrier, but if it's just that, then you have no ability to write about another culture, in a language you struggle with.
Evil has entered the mind of anon of 2:34 and 2:35. Purposely misspelling Tim and Chuck's name to malign who they are? Anything else you have to say is now moot. And you allow it on your blog Diana? Who is the hypocrite now?
DeleteDiana, Tim and the majority of contributors on Jungle Watch are Catholic. By your standards, your negating of Jungle Watch makes you anti-Catholic as well; or is there a double standard?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 12:30 p.m.,
DeleteI think you are overreacting over a misspelling.
Dear Anonymous at 12:32 p.m.,
DeleteWhen a Catholic goes against another group of Catholics, they are only going against the Church and against themselves. My blogsite is not against the Traditional Catholics. Rather, it defends the Neocatechumenal Way, who are Catholics.
Junglewatch is clearly and openly against the Neocatechumenal Way. In his comments, Tim even says that the Way follows ANOTHER Magisterium. I never made such comments like that about the Traditional Catholics. The Traditional Catholics are still part of the Catholic Church.
This is why you are afforded little to no credibility. The "misspellings" happens consistently throughout the comment. The fact that you dismiss this obvious gesture says a lot about your lack of integrity. Whether you post and acknowledge this comment or not will speak to your humility.
DeleteAnon 11:59 a.m. : Which paper, I pray?! I haven't written any paper. What are you talking about? Please, enlighten me. Thanks.
DeleteBy the way, I am an American. I see differences between the Guamanian and American culture, that is for sure. If you want to discuss that, I would be glad. Just let me know, please, okay? Cheers!
Dear Anonymous at 2:02 p.m.,
DeleteLike I said, I think you are overreacting over a misspelling.
Anon 11:59 a.m. : Here is my own blog, if you wanna read. ;)
Deletehttp://neocatheart.blogspot.com/2014/05/my-sweet-lord-part-2-tim-rohrs.html
@ Diana on May 21, 2:02
DeleteThe NCW is against the Catholic Church. You are either nieve or ignorant to not see that Kiko manipulates people in the way, and he distorts the words from the Pope for his personal gain. Have an open mind Diana
Dear Anonymous at 2:02,
DeleteHow is the Way against the Catholic Church?. We have not even been excommunicated like the SSPX. The letter is clear in that it never had anything to do with a "rebuke" or "reprimand." According to the Archbishop's letter to Kiko (the capitalization is my emphasis):
"I have to assure you that Pope Francis has considered carefully what you explained and wishes to confirm, as he has already expressed in the context of the Audience and of His Speech on February 1st, His paternal closeness and His LOVING ENCOURAGEMENT to you and to all adherents to the Way."
"Loivng encouragement" is not a "rebuke" or even a "warning."
I don't remember anything about cathechisist about purgatory? This is absurd. Been in the way for 2 decade
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 11:20,
DeleteThat is because It was not about Purgatory. I saw Tim's recent blog on Purgatory. and he took something from Kiko's statement. Kiko never said anything about Purgatory. The "Purgatory" came from Tim Rohr.
It was the same thing he did when I was answering my own question. I never said anything about the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. I answered my own question, and he took my response and made it as though I was speaking about the hierarchy of the Catholic Church all along.
"Kiko never said anything about Purgatory" Thats what i believe Chuck White was getting at.
ReplyDeleteKiko says you sleep and you wake up in Paradise. There is no Purgatory in Kiko's explanation of death. Page 227 of the NCW directory. i have this book by the way and just read through that section. Did Kiko just forget about Purgatory?
Further, the article is a report/report from Chuck White's analysis of the contents of the Kerigma as published vol.1
-Catholics United-
Dear Catholics United,
DeleteThe Kerygma is to preach the Gospel of Christ especially in the manner of the Early Church. The Gospel of Christ is about mankind's salvation and how Christ redeemed us. Below is a letter from St. John:
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Did St. John say anything in here about Purgatory? No, he didn't. But that does not mean that St. John did not believe in Purgatory. Like St. John, Kiko had a more important message to deliver than the doctrines of Purgatory. The Gospel of Christ speaks of God's love for mankind that He gave His only Begotten Son that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life.
By the way, I stand corrected. It is an article written by Chuck White and published on Junglewatch.
Wow Diana,
Delete"Like St. John, Kiko had a more important message to deliver than the doctrines of Purgatory."
Seems like you already consider Kiko a Saint. Your like a bottomless well of distorted information.
Dear Anonymous at 6:21 p.m.,
DeletePope Francis said to spread the Gospel of Christ. A person does not have to be a saint to do that. That is actually our duty as baptized Catholics. The Gospel of Christ is love.
Wow Tim White Kitty Rohr and Chucky White twist things. There's a word for that. SLANDER!
ReplyDeleteDear 12:30pm,
ReplyDeleteThere is no evil in my mind, because evil does not exist in my heart over this matter. So I will just ignore the rest of your comment.
Rather than questioning my motives you should be grasping the reality, the truth that I had shared. Those are all real and I can say that I was a witness to it all.