Sunday, May 11, 2014

The Hierarchy of the Way


The Statutes of the Neocatechumenal Way was approved by the Vatican.  In it, it defines and describes the role of everyone involved.  According to the Statutes (Title 1 Article 2): 

In conformity with the desire of Pope John Paul II: "It is therefore my wish that the brothers in the episcope - together with their presbyters - value and help this work for the new evangelization, so that it may be implemented according to the lines proposed by the initiators, in the spirit of serve to the local ordinary and in communion with him and in the context of the unity of the local Church and the universal Church," the Neocatechuenal Way is implemented in the dioceses:

  1. under the jurisdiction, the direction of the diocesan bishop and with the assistance, the guidance of the International Responsible Team of the Way, or the delegated responsible team, as indicated in art. 3, 7th;
  2. according "to the lines proposed by its initiators" contained in the present Statue and in the Orientations for the Teams of Catechists. 
In no way is the above saying that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church changed. In no way is the above also putting the Team Catechist above the Archbishop. In the first place, the Statutes was NEVER referring to the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, but the opponents of the Way mislead others into thinking that it does.  According to the Statutes, the Way is under the jurisdiction and direction of the Archbishop, and he is assisted and guided by Team Catechists.  The term "direction" in here is understood "as the jurisdiction proper to ordained ministers", while the term "guidance" is understood to mean "as the technical knowledge of the Way according to the lines proposed by the initiators." ( These quotes in blue were taken from the Statutes.) 


The International Responsible Team of the Way is Kiko Arguello, Carmen Hernandez, and Father Mario.  Their role was also clearly spelled out in the Statutes, which was approved by the Vatican.  According to the Statutes, one of Kiko's role defined in the Statutes stated that he is: "to maintain regular relations with the Pontifical Council for the Laity, the dicastery to which the Holy Father has entrusted the responsibility of accompanying the Neocatechumenal Way,  as well as with the other dicasteries of the Holy See within the scope of their respective competence, keeping the Pontifical Council of the Laity informed (Article 1, Article 3).

Just because Kiko (who is part of the International Responsible Team) reports to the Vatican does not mean that Kiko was replacing the hierarchy of the Catholic Church.  Again, this is what the opponents of the Way wants everyone to believe.  The hierarchy of the Catholic Church still remains the same.  In the first place, what was written in the Statutes was never about the hierarchy of the Catholic Church.  I repeat.......the Statues were already approved by the Vatican, and these Statutes have nothing to do with the hierarchy of the Catholic Church.  It defines the roles of the International  Responsible Team, the Team Catechists, the Bishop (or Archbishop), the priests, and even the neocatechumens to ensure unity between all those in the Way and unity between the Way and the Holy See.

Those who oppose the Way spread the false rumor that the Way goes against the Pope-Bishop-priest hierarchy of the Catholic Church when in fact, we follow what the Vatican approved in the Statutes.  When Kiko speaks to the Pope or the Vatican, he was never taking the place of the Bishop, but simply following his duty as defined in the Statutes approved by Rome.  And the fact that he reports to the Vatican says more about his obedience to the Pope and the Catholic Church. 

Those who oppose the Way spread the false rumor that we disobey and disrespect the Pope.....but then again, what else can I expect from someone who show no obedience or respect to the Archbishop anyway.  So, no surprise there.  



35 comments:

  1. Diana, you said that you are in "communion" with Vatican because the Pope gave verbal consent to Kiko. Is there any proof of that or is this your usual hearsay?
    Where are the bishop and the priests in this chain if command of your hierarchy that goes like this (according to a post in Junglewatch):
    Kiko --> other "top dogs" --> itinerary catechists --> mission families --> catechist teams in parishes, top layer --> (...) intermediate layers --> bottom layers of catechists --> elder responsible --> community responsible --> members

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    Replies
    1. Dear Anonymous,

      Did you read what I posted? Did you even read the Statutes? In regards to the Neocatechumenal Way, it is already written in the Statutes that the International Responsible Team (in this case, it is Kiko Arguello, Carmen Hernandez, and Father Mario) who must "maintain regular contact with the Holy See and with the diocesan bishops (See Title 1, Article 3). The Diocesan Bishop and priests are mentioned in the Statues. All you had to do was read the Statues.

      So, now the question is.........Why did you leave out the Pope in your diagram??? Why did you put Kiko at the top, when the Statutes clearly mentions that the International Responsible Team (Kiko) must maintain the relationship with the Vatican and the Diocesan Bishop? As I said in my post, the Vatican did not change the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, but to ensure unity between the members of the Way and between the Way and the Holy See.



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    2. Diana, you bet Vatican did not change the church hierarchy, why would he?! ;)
      The church hierarchy is only redefined by the Neocatechumenal movement for themselves. On the top there is Kiko and his generals, at the bottom are the members. Between them an oppressive chain of command from catechists to teams, from itineraries and missionaries to "responsibles", etc. that totally defies anything Catholic. The members follow order without brain or soul just as in an army.
      You try to include the Pope at the top. But "maintaining regular contact" only means that Kiko has to attend audiences. The Pope is not whispering secret instructions to Kiko's ears and does not approve the kikoite practices. It was very clear with the sitting and standing controversy during communion. The Pope insisted that you cannot receive communion while sitting. Kiko did not care, did he? There was a 2-year period of time for transition that was passed without change in the Neocatechumenal mass and without following the very clear Vatican directives.
      How do you explain this if you think the Pope authorizes everything Kiko does??

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    3. Dear Anonymous,

      I don't "try" to include the Pope. The Pope is there and has already given his blessings. In fact. five Popes gave the Way their blessings. I already explained that we don't receive the Body of Christ while sitting. We receive the Body of Christ by hand standing up. Yes, there was a 2 year period for transition, and the change was made following the Vatican directives. You just think that we are not obeying the Vatican directives.

      It is not news that there are alleged abuses in the Way because we hear and read about it in every Anti-Catholic website.. With the kind of media and technology that we have in this current age, I'm sure the Pope has heard all those alleged abuses. As I said, Pope Benedict XVI ordered an investigation on those alleged abuses and so far nothing ever came of it. By the time, Francis became Pope, he ceased all investigations of the Way. As for your letters to the Nuncio regarding those alleged abuses.......have you heard from them????? Did it ever occur to you that the reasons the Popes and the Nuncio never acted on your complaints and allegations is because they were all unfounded?

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    4. Diana, you changed the topic. I am not talking about "abuses" in general. I am talking about the 2-3 years period of time that passed between the Arinze letter and the beginning of compliance by the Neocatechumenal mass!
      Yes, I am talking about the time you guys did NOT stand up for communion. You yourself shared that members of your "Way" did not stand up when receiving the host during the Neocatechumenal mass up until 2008. Is this not true? The Arinze letter was dated at December 1st 2005, 3 years before 2008, which is the beginning of compliance by Kiko.
      http://www.internetica.it/neocatecumenali/english/arinze-letter-interview.htm
      Now, this incident clearly shows that the movement was NOT in communion with the Pope during this time. This is an obvious counterexample to your claim that the Pope verbally approves Kiko's practices. It is just the contrary! Kiko's hierarchy does NOT include the Pope and the same way does not include bishops and priests either. It is a hierarchy completely outside of the scope of the Catholic church!

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    5. Dear Anonymous at 6:39 p.m.,

      First of all, there is no such thing as Kiko's hierarchy. That was invented by those who oppose the Way, Members of the Way have always recognized the Pope. So, when I say that the Pope is at the top, please do not say something like "no, it's Kiko" otherwise our dialogue would be like the following:

      Diana: Kiko is not at the top. It's the Pope.
      Anonymous: No, it's Kiko. The Way recognizes Kiko at the top.
      Diana: No, it doesn't.
      Anonymous: Yes, it does.
      Diana: No, it doesn't.
      Anonymous: Yes, it does.

      Those who are walking in the Way recognize the Pope at the top. It's only those who are against us who put words in our mouth.

      Secondly, you say you are not talking about the "abuses" but the 2-3 years period of time that passed between the Arinze letter. The Arinze letter was dated December, 2005. It was Kiko who approached the Pope regarding the Arnze letter, and the Pope wrote to Kiko on January, 2006. According to the Pope's letter dated January 12, 2006:

      You have asked that the Successor of Peter confer this mandate as my venerable Predecessor John Paul II did in the past, on 12 December 1994, because you intend your apostolic action to take place in the heart of the Church, in total harmony with her directives and in communion with the particular Churches in which you are going to work, making the most of the riches of the charisms that the Lord has awakened through the Founders of the Way.

      http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/january/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060112_neocatecumenali_en.html

      As you can see from the Pope's letter, it was Kiko who approached the Pope after receiving the mandate from Arinze. It was also Pope Benedict who gave Kiko two years to make that transition. One can see that in Kiko's letter to the Pope dated January 17, 2006. It stated:

      We also wish to thank you for the benevolence, mercy, and goodness You have shown to those farthest away in allowing the moving of the sign of peace and in granting a period of two years for the adaptation of the manner of distributing the Communion of the Body and the Blood of the Lord:

      It was sometime around 2008 when instructions were given to the members here on Guam that we are to stand when we receive the Body of Christ. So, how can we be in disobedience or NOT in communion with the Holy See DURING the transition period?

      A transition period is a time frame which the Pope gave us to begin the process of moving from one stage to another. A person is not in communion with the Pope when the transition period has ended and there has been absolutely no evidence showing that any kind of movement or process was even taking place. The fact that there was evidence of a movement or process taking place shows that Kiko was in communion with the Vatican.

      First, we were told that our admonitions must be short and they had to teach us how to do admonitions properly because some members were doing admonitions as though it was a "sharing," This took place when I first entered the Way in 2006.

      There were a list of things in Cardinal Arinze's letter that Kiko was told to do. It was not only about how we receive the Body of Christ. So, how are we not in communion with the Pope when during the transition period, there was already a movement to go from one stage to another starting with showing the members how to do admonitions properly as outlined in Arinze's letter.

      Delete
    6. Your quote from the Pope's address to the NCW of 12 January 2006 is misleading, as the pope was not discussing the Arinze letter in that excerpt, but rather the "special missionary "mandate" to go to various nations, especially in Latin America. "

      You conveniently left this bit out, from the same address by the pope:
      "Precisely to help the Neocatechumenal Way to render even more effective its evangelizing action in communion with all the People of God, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments recently imparted to you in my name certain norms concerning the Eucharistic Celebration, after the trial period that the Servant of God John Paul II conceded. I am sure you will attentively observe these norms that reflect what is provided for in the liturgical books approved by the Church.

      By faithfully keeping to every Church directive, you will make your apostolate even more effective, in tune and in full communion with the Pope and the Pastors of every Diocese. And in so doing, the Lord will continue to bless you with abundant pastoral fruits"

      It appears the pope expected the NCW to follow the liturgical books immediately. Anon at 2:19, you are quite correct. Just another example of distortion in the Way

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    7. Dear Anonymous at 11:19 a.m.,

      I did not leave out that part. The topic of discussion that Anon at 6:39 brought up was the 2 year period. According to Anon at 6:39, he/she stated:

      I am not talking about "abuses" in general. I am talking about the 2-3 years period of time that passed between the Arinze letter and the beginning of compliance by the Neocatechumenal mass!


      Thus, that is what I was responding to.

      Delete
  2. Diana, in a previous post you said this:
    "If your next question is 'why we consume the Body of Christ sitting down, ' the answer is because we are told to do so by the Team Catechists. The members are obedient to the Team Catechists who is in communion with Kiko Arguello who is in communion with the Pope. According to the Team Catechists, these instructions came from Kiko who in turn received the same instructions from the Pope. "

    And so, you claim that an ordinary member of the NCW achieves communion with the Church (in this case with respect to the method of receiving the Eucharistic sacrament) through a structure other than the Church hierarchy.

    Now, the questions is......why do you leave out the Bishop, and the priests, from your "diagram"?

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    1. Dear Anonymous,

      When I made those statements, I was NOT referring to he hierarchy of the Catholic Church, but answering my own question as to why we consume the Body of Christ. The question: Why we consume the Body of Christ sitting down?" The answer: We are told to do so by the Team Catechists.

      I heard it from Father Pius. At the Beginning of the Year Convivience, he said, "WE were given these instructions from Kiko, who in turn received it from the Pope." When Father Pius said "WE" he also included the Archbishop who sat next to him.

      In the same way, when the Responsible of my community told the members, "WE received these instructions at the Beginning of the Year Convivience and will transmit to you." The "WE" included the Co-Responsibles who was also present at that retreat.

      Please do not act like the Protestants who only read the words in the Bible and cannot see the setting behind the words. We are Catholics because we follow the Pope.

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    2. It sounds like the anonymous cunningly try to trap you. I notice also many of the redundant question were from website who is against the way in Italy. They are not reading the answer.

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    3. Diana responds but those who ask fail to accept.

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    4. Dear Anonymous at 11:24 p.m.,

      I agree with your perceptive observation. A person with hatred in their heart does not read nor hear the answer. They ask the same questions over despite that the answer has already been given. They also try to twist my comment as Anonymous at 12:40pm did. He/she tried to make my comment look as though I spoke about the hierarchy of the Catholic Church when in reality I was answering my own question as to why we consume the Body of Christ sitting down.

      All Tim Rohr has been doing was copy and paste all the Anti-Catholic websites and present them as "facts." Putting his real name on it does not lend it any credibility. It only makes him a hatemonger.

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    5. At least have the guts to say your serious accusations of Tim to his face. You throw so much around on this blog without the credibility of source or your name. You also hide behind the excuse that "others do it so should you."
      You gain no future believers by hiding behind the name Diana. The only yes-men you have are those who are already in your circle.
      Your latest accusation and slander that Tim is using anti-Catholic rhetoric is so over the top, in my circle, you have gone from "catching our attention" to "not even worth it."

      Delete
    6. Yeah I googled his write up and translate it to Italian it sounds like Anti WAY in Italian blog.

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    7. Dear Anonymous at 8:56 a.m.,

      That is not slander. That is the truth. And the truth hurts, doesn't it?

      Delete
  3. Finally, it is day of truth for Tim Rohr. He just revealed at his blog that he is working for an Italian anti-Neocatechumenal trash-site, where he is very proud to have published his 1st piece of defaming Guam Catholics. Of course, it is only the 1st piece but by no means the last. He will continue muck raking as he is eager to seek recognition from the international anti-Way trash-community. He is even advertising his own book for them, in a burning desire for fame. Well Tim, we have always known that you have a hidden business agenda behind your attack-dog blog-site where you continue to spread gossip, hearsay and superstition about the Way and about the good Catholic folks of Guam 7/24. You are totally unscrupulous, aren't you? But we have never fathomed that your true business is defaming and muck raking for money and fame. Now we know you, Tim, you revealed yourself, it is game over.

    Be careful everyone who writes comments here or at the JungleWatch! Tim Rohr may copy and paste all your words into his book, desperately trying to sell and make money on your back for himself. .

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  4. This what you miss, I will mark it in CAPS since i cant emphasize, using bold, italics, etc..

    excerpted from Cardinal Arinze's private letter Dec 1, 2005 to the leaders of the NCW

    and i source it here:

    http://www.internetica.it/neocatecumenali/english/arinze-letter-interview.htm

    +++begin+++

    5. On the manner of receiving Holy Communion, a period of transition (not exceeding two years) is granted to the Neocatechumenal Way to pass from the widespread manner of receiving Holy Communion in its communities (seated, with a cloth-covered table placed at the center of the church instead of the dedicated altar in the sanctuary) TO THE NORMAL WAY IN WHICH THE ENTIRE CHURCH RECEIVES HOLY COMMUNION. THIS MEANS THAT THE NEOCATECHUMENAL WAY MUST BEGIN TO ADOPT THE MANNER OF DISTRIBUTING THE BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST THAT IS PROVIDED IN THE LITURGAL BOOKS.

    6. The Neocatechumenal Way must also make use of the other Eucharistic Prayers contained in the missal, and not only Eucharistic Prayer II.

    In short, the Neocatechumenal Way, in its celebration of the Holy Mass, should follow the approved liturgical books, keeping in mind what is laid out above under the numbers 1,2,3,4,5, and 6.

    Acknowledging the favors that the Lord has bestowed upon the Church through the many activities of the Neocatechumenal Way, I take this occasion to extend to you my best regards.

    + Francis Card. Arinze
    Prefect

    +++end+++

    Then in January 12 2006, Pope Benedict reemphasizes the need to conform, (pulled from your site reference)

    ++begin++
    Precisely to help the Neocatechumenal Way to render even more effective its evangelizing action in communion with all the People of God, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments recently imparted to you in my name certain norms concerning the Eucharistic Celebration, after the trial period that the Servant of God John Paul II conceded. I am sure you will attentively observe these norms that reflect what is provided for in the liturgical books approved by the Church.

    ++end++

    Pope Benedict even REFERENCES this private letter from December, " ... the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments recently imparted to you in my name."

    On January 17, 2006 Kiko Arguelo very politely declines the letter of advisement by Pope Benedict(through Cardinal Arinze) advising why they shouldn't stand up get in line, receive the Eucharist like the way it occurs during Mass:

    +begin++
    We also wish to thank you for the benevolence, mercy, and goodness You have shown to those farthest away in allowing the moving of the sign of peace and in granting a period of two years for the adaptation of the manner of distributing the Communion of the Body and the Blood of the Lord: we have always shown to the many brothers who have emerged from hell, full of wounds and of self-loathing, that in the Holy Eucharist the Lord makes present his love, dying and rising for them; and not only that, but prepares a table, an eschatological banquet, which makes Heaven present and where He himself, full of love, has them sit down and comes to serve them: “He will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them” (Lk 12:37).

    In this way, every time we celebrate the Eucharist we experience the power this sacrament has to draw them into the Passover of Christ, bringing them from sadness to joy, from darkness to light, from death to life…

    ++end++

    So, here Kiko Arguello disagrees with Pope Benedict XVI. Is he following directions?

    I'm not here to be derisive, and i am not a NCW Hater, it is just that i care about our Catholic Faith.

    -Catholics United-


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    1. Dear Anonymous at 11:52 a.m.,

      First of all, Cardinal Arinze's letter listed 6 directives in which Kiko was supposed to follow. Why do you have only #5 and 6 listed?? A transition period of 2 years means that Kiko has up to 2 years to make the changes that Arinze required in his letter. Directive #1 stated that the community members must be told to attend regular mass once a month. Directive #2 stated that admonitions must be brief. As I mentioned in my comment above, when I entered in the Way in 2006, the catechists were teaching us how to make admonitions properly. So, during the transition period, Kiko was already making the changes. So, how can anyone accuse him to disobedience when he had already started making those changes? You cannot charge a person for disobedience DURING the transition period. You can, however, charge them with disobedience after the transition period is over AND there is no evidence showing that no process of change has even begun.

      Finally, you say that Kiko's letter showed disobedience. How? I see Kiko's letter quoting Luke 12:37. Is the biblical verse Luke 12:37 interpreted to mean disobedience to the Pope?

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    2. Obvious to everyone except you Diana. You still sit to receive the Body of Christ into your hearts. This is not the "norm". This is not the "NORMAL WAY IN WHICH THE ENTIRE CHURCH RECEIVES HOLY COMMUNION"

      You hold the Blessed Sacrament in your hand, rather than consume immediately. Again this is not the "NORMAL WAY IN WHICH THE ENTIRE CHURCH RECEIVES HOLY COMMUNION".

      You have no written support for these practises. No statement from the pope or any of the dicasteries that clearly allows these practises. You admit the reason you continue these practises is because you were "told" to by Kiko (indirectly).

      There is evidently a disagreement between Pope Benedict (and presumably Pope Francis) and Kiko about the method of distributing and communicating the Blessed Sacrament. And yet you and your ilk choose Kiko over the pope. Not only, this, but you then claim that, despite, the disagreement, Kiko is in communion with the pope because he "meets with him". Well I have news for you.

      Pope Francis recently met with Obama! Perhaps we should assume Obama is now in communion with the pope?

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    3. Dear Anonymous at 4:22 pm,

      You say that this not the normal way in which the entire church receives holy communion. You are incorrect. Did you not see the GIRM under the con celebration Mass?? The con celebrants does not take the Body of Christ immediately. So, you are incorrect.

      Delete
    4. Concelebrants do not sit to consume

      Delete
    5. Dear Anonymous at 11:31 a.m.,

      That is irrelevant because concelebrants who are in wheelchairs or who cannot stand for very long do sit. The point is.....that you were incorrect when you said that the only and proper way to celebrate mass is to consume the Body of Christ immediately. I will also remind you that the Early Christians DID consume the Body of Christ sitting down. Fresco paintings of the Early Christians in he catacombs showed that. And who are you to say that the Early Christians did it the wrong way?

      As I said in one of my comments, these instructions were given to us by Father Pius, and I remembered Father Pius say that they received those instructions from Kiko who in turned received it from the Pope. And since it comes from Rome, we obey. I am not going to judge Father Pius a liar

      Delete
    6. Diana, the Church decides what is licit or illicit in terms of the Mass. Not you, nor Fr Pius, nor Kiko.
      Whether the "early Christians" consumed the Blessed sacrament sitting is not relevant, even if I were to accept your "proof" of this from a couple of paintings (which I do not). If we were to rely merely on paintings, we would have to accept that Jesus Christ bore a striking resemblance to Kiko, and that the Child Jesus had black spaces instead of eyes.

      Time and time again the popes have urged, instructed and insisted that the NCW follow the liturgical books, including this, from Redemptionis Sacramentum:
      "[88.] The faithful should normally receive sacramental Communion of the Eucharist during Mass itself, at the moment laid down by the rite of celebration, that is to say, just after the Priest celebrant’s Communion", and
      "[97.] A Priest must communicate at the altar at the moment laid down by the Missal each time he celebrates Holy Mass, and the concelebrants must communicate before they proceed with the distribution of Holy Communion. The Priest celebrant or a concelebrant is never to wait until the people’s Communion is concluded before receiving Communion himself"

      Notice the distinction made between the "priest celebrant", the "concelebrant" and the people?

      There is a discussion here which is relevant to this issue: http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur295.htm

      You should immediately retract your erroneous statements which only serve to mislead and confuse the faithful.

      Delete
    7. Dear Anonymous at 3:00 p.m.,

      Where in my comment did I ever say that it was Father Pius or Kiko who decides what is licit or illicit in the Mass?? Did I not make myself clear when I said that I heard Father Pius say that these instructions were given to them from Kiko who in turn got the same instructions from the Pope? Therefore, these instructions were given to us from Rome. That was what I heard from Father Pius at the Beginning of the Year back in 2008. Whether you believe that or not is not my problem.

      Regarding the paintings, the only websites saying that Kiko painted himself as Jesus are those that are against the Way. Kiko likes Byzantine art, and most of his paintings resembles Byzantine art. If you look up the photos of Christ in Byzantine art, they look very similar to Kiko's paintings.

      Our Statutes and Catechetical Directory have been approved by Rome. We also have those to follow. And our Statutes say that we receive the Body and Blood of Christ REMAINING at our place. In other words, we do not go up to the priest to receive the Body and Blood of Christ because the Statues were approved specifically for the Neocatechumenal Way.

      Delete
  5. I only list 5 and 6 to be succinct but i referenced the letter in entirety.

    Yes. Disobedience. Because Kiko uses the Gospel as a device, as a reason, as a rationalization, not to conform to the directions of the Popes' letter.

    Jan 17, 2006. Kiko Arguellos' reply..."In this way, every time we celebrate the Eucharist"

    The Pope has already said, already written, that you have 2 years to transition from your current mode of receiving the Eucharist to receiving the Body in the same way everyone else does.

    But Kiko says very elegantly, using the sleight, using the lubrication of citing Gospel, Lk 12:37, says to the Holy Father, we'll not do this, we'll sit as this is a banquet.

    And really I can see why he retorts the POPE with this. This Eucharistic Celebration of Kiko's design is suddenly thrown out after Vatican examination after how many years of sitting around for the Body and Blood of Christ.

    -How about that Diana? You sit for HIS Body and Blood to COME TO YOU? HE DIED FOR US. THE VERY LEAST YOU COULD DO IS TO GET UP AND WALK TO RECEIVE HIM.

    You should ask some Non-RMS priests personally why they choose not to help with Word celebrations or Eucharists, it's not that these Priests are too busy.

    -CU-


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    1. Dear Catholic United.,

      There is a difference between "disagree" and "disobey." It is okay to disagree, but not okay to disobey. In his letter, Kiko was expressing his disagreement with the Pope's decision and cited the Gospel of Luke to support his case, but he did not disobey because there was a change.

      As I constantly said over and over, we receive the Body of Christ by hand STANDING UP. That was the change that came in 2008.

      Delete
    2. Dear Catholic United,

      A priest who involves himself in the Way would simply be adding more work to what he already does in the parish. Could that perhaps be a reason for their refusal? Nevertheless, the NCW has the blessings of five popes. And the blessings of the Vicar of Christ has more standing than the refusal of any priest.

      Delete
  6. Blessings along with admonishments.

    -Catholics United-

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    1. Dear Catholic United,

      The Pope did NOT give us any admonishments. He gave us three recommendations. If you truly want to unite all Catholics as your name says, then please do NOT twist words. Stand by what you profess in your name "Catholic United" and go by the truth.

      The truth is the Pope gave us 3 recommendations, and recommendations are good things. We would always need the recommendations of the Holy Father in order to better ourselves. According to the Pope's letter to the NCW on February 1st:

      "And precisely in the name of the Church, our Mother,... I would like to propose to you some simple recommendations.

      The first is to have the utmost care to build and to preserve the communion within the particular Churches in which you will work. The Way has its own charism and dynamic, a gift, which like all of the gifts of the Spirit, has a profound ecclesial dimension; this means paying attention to the life of the Churches to which your leaders send you, to enhance the riches, to suffer for the weaknesses if necessary, and to walk together, like one flock, under the guidance of the pastors of the local Churches. Communion is essential sometimes it can be better to renounce living in all the details that your itinerary demands, in order to ensure the unity among those who form one ecclesial community, of which you must always feel that you are part.

      Another recommendation: wherever you may go, it would do you well to think that the Spirit of God always gets there ahead of us. The Lord always precedes us! ... Even in the most faraway places, even in the most diverse cultures, God scatters everywhere the seeds of his Word. From here, flows the necessity to give special attention to the cultural context in which you, families, will go to work: it consists of an environment often very different from the one from which you come. Many of you will have to work hard to learn the local language, sometimes it will be difficult, and this effort is appreciated. Even more important will be your commitment to “learn” the culture you will encounter, knowing how to recognize the need of the Gospel, which is present wherever, but also that action that the Holy Spirit has accomplished in the life and in the history of every people.

      Finally, I exhort you to care lovingly for each other, in a particular way for the weakest. The Neocatechumenal Way, as an itinerary of discovery of one’s own baptism, is a demanding road, along which a brother or a sister can come upon unforeseen difficulties. In these cases, the exercise of patience and of mercy on the part of the community is a sign of maturity in the faith. The freedom of each person must not be forced, and even the eventual choice of someone who decides to seek, outside of the Way, other forms of Christian life that help him to grow in the response to the call of the Lord must be respected. "

      http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2014/02/01/pope_to_neocatechumenal_way:_build_ecclesial_communion,_evangelize/en1-769304






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  7. As a matter of fact, when it began, his blog merely provided a reporting of the events related to the Archbishop’s actions against Fr. Paul Gofigan. The first opinion Tim Rohr included in a post was on July 28, 2013 when he wrote “I have kept my personal opinions mostly to myself, but at this point I must say that it appears to me that the chancery is being very poorly counseled.” The NCW discussion, which is not a frequent topic, was virtually non-existent in the early days of Jungle Watch.

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  8. Where in my comment did I mention a communion procession?

    The instructions from Redemptionis Sacramentum lay down the norms for communion including the priests communion and that of "concelebrants". Pretty clear really. So it the discussion on the EWTN site. The quoted passages also makes the distinction between concelebrants and the people, particularly in regard to communion. Are you going to ignore that too?

    Also, "Rome" does not alter the liturgy in an informal way! Alleged comments to Kiko, passed on to Fr Pius is not the way in which "Rome" would give instructions on important matters such as the Mass. you should know this of course, because "Rome" has given you written Statutes. I am prepared to believe that Kiko gave Fr Pius those instructions. But I do not believe that the Pope gave Kiko those same instructions verbally, and informally, when the Church just doesn't do it that way Diana. This should have been a red flag to you, but I suspect you are simply enamoured by anything Kiko does (he might be a Holy Saint one day!).

    Regarding the paintings "If you look up the photos of Christ in Byzantine art, they look very similar to Kiko's paintings. " Well this is because Kiko copies the existing Iconography from the Byzantine style. The difference with Kiko's paintings include the faces, which are quite different from the Byzantine style - coincidentally more similar to his own face. I notice you didn't mention the black eyes either?

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    1. Dear Anonymous at 4:39 p.m.,

      You say that you do not believe that the Pope gave Kiko those same instructions verbally and informally because you believe that the Church just doesn't do that. Yet, Pope Benedict XVI did just that. The Pope held a private meeting with Kiko on May, 2007 (which was still in the Transition Period). This private meeting was reported in the Catholic News Agency and in the blogsite "Clerical Whispers" who copied the same news report from CNA in July, 2008 after the Statues were approved. According to the news report, which was reported on the Clerical Whispers blogsite:

      "Under the old rubrics, members of the Neocatechumenal Way celebrated the Eucharist gathered around large square tables and receive Communion while seated. The new regulations are quite different, with the community celebrating Mass with a separation between the congregation and the altar and communicants receiving the Eucharist standing in their places.

      According to Giuseppe Gennarini, this way of receiving Communion sprang from a private meeting between Pope Benedict XVI and Kiko Arguello on May 26, 2007."

      http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.com/2008/07/neocatechumenal-ways-new-statutes-are.html

      So, as you can see......there was a private meeting between Pope Benedict XVI and Kiko in 2007. It was Kiko who was there in that private meeting with the Pope. The discussion they had in that private meeting was on how we are to receive Holy Communion.

      The Statutes were approved in 2008, and on the Beginning of the Year Convivience 2008, I heard Father Pius say that they received the instructions from Kiko who in turn received it from the Pope.

      As for the paintings, you are only repeating what the opposition always say, but there is no evidence of it.

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  9. Concelebration is strictly for those in the ministerial priesthood, not for the layperson. On another site you stated that in the early church concelebration meant something different. Where did you get that info.
    Anyways, concelebration is only for priests who can change the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. The lay person can assist at Mass, but not concelebrate. Never could (even in the early church), and never will.

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    1. Dear Anonymous at 3:11 a.m.,

      I got the information from "Our Sunday Visitor's Catholic Encyclopedia" which is on sale at this weblink below. Type in the word "concelebrate" in the search button for "inside the book".:

      http://books.google.com/books/about/Our_Sunday_Visitor_s_Catholic_Encycloped.html?id=sTodToOE6pQC

      According to the information in that book, the word "concelebrate" had a different meaning that it does today. In Early Christianity, all Christians concelebrated. By the Middle Ages, the word was changed to refer only to priests and bishops.

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