Must read more. Church does not interpret Bible, Church is not person. The Magisterium interprets Bible, consists of bishops. The Holy Ghost works in interpretation. When you have the Holy Ghost, you can interpret the Bible. Along the Magisterium.
There are so many errors made in this comment. First of all, the Holy Spirit is in every baptized person, but this does not mean that the laity can interpret Sacred Scripture. In the Catholic Church, no lay person is authorize to interpret Scripture. Why? Because then you would end up with 20,000 or more different interpretation. That is the reason why there are more than 20,000 non-Catholic Christian denominations.
Private interpretation is not condoned in the Bible (2 Peter 1:20). Individual interpretation by the Early Christians was never practiced (Acts 8:29-35). The reason we have more than 20,000 different non-Catholic Christian denominations is due to the many different "individual" interpretations that each non-Catholic Christian churches allow.
Jolene is correct when she said that the Magisterium interprets the Bible, but she appears confused as to what the "Church" is. The Magisterium is not separate from the Church no more than Christ being separated from His bride.
CCC 84 The apostles entrusted the "Sacred deposit" of the faith (the depositum fidei), contained in Sacred Scripture and Tradition, to the whole of the Church. "By adhering to [this heritage] the entire holy people, united to its pastors, remains always faithful to the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. So, in maintaining, practicing and professing the faith that has been handed on, there should be a remarkable harmony between the bishops and the faithful."
CCC 85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
Furthermore, Jolene says that the "Church is not a person." It appears that she views the Magisterium a "person" but not the "Church". The Church is defined as "the People of God," "the Body of Christ," "the Bride of Christ," and "the Temple of the Holy Spirit". According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
CCC 797 "What the soul is to the human body, the Holy Spirit is to the Body of Christ, which is the Church."243 "To this Spirit of Christ, as an invisible principle, is to be ascribed the fact that all the parts of the body are joined one with the other and with their exalted head; for the whole Spirit of Christ is in the head, the whole Spirit is in the body, and the whole Spirit is in each of the members."244 The Holy Spirit makes the Church "the temple of the living God":245................
CCC 2245 The Church, because of her commission and competence, is not to be confused in any way with the political community. She is both the sign and the safeguard of the transcendent character of the human person. "The Church respects and encourages the political freedom and responsibility of the citizen."
I do not know how anyone can read these verses in the Catechism and not think of the Church as a living organism. The Church is a living organism animated by the Holy Spirit. She is our Mother and teacher of the faith. And Mother Church is alive, not dead. The Holy Bible also shows that any persecution on the Church is also a persecution on Jesus Christ who is one with His Church (Acts 9:4 and Acts 22:7).
Many people today understand the church as a building.
ReplyDeleteThis is not a biblical understanding of the church.
The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of “church” is not that of a building, but of people.
It is ironic that when you ask people what church they attend, they usually identify a building. Romans 16:5 says “… greet the church that is in their house.” Paul refers to the church in their house—not a church building, but a body of believers.
The church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head.
ReplyDeleteEphesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” The body of Christ is made up of all believers in Jesus Christ from the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2) until Christ’s return.
The body of Christ is comprised of two aspects:
1) The universal church consists of all those who have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Corinthians 12:13).
This verse says that anyone who believes is part of the body of Christ and has received the Spirit of Christ as evidence.
The universal church of God is all those who have received salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.
2) The local church is described in Galatians 1:1-2: “Paul, an apostle … and all the brothers with me, to the churches in Galatia.” Here we see that in the province of Galatia there were many churches—what we call local churches.
A Baptist church, Lutheran church, Catholic church, etc., is not the church, as in the universal church—but rather is a local church, a local body of believers.
The universal church is comprised of those who belong to Christ and who have trusted Him for salvation. These members of the universal church should seek fellowship and edification in a local church.
In summary, the church is not a building or a denomination.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the Bible, the church is the body of Christ—all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (John 3:16; 1 Corinthians 12:13).
Local churches are gatherings of members of the universal church.
The local church is where the members of the universal church can fully apply the “body” principles of 1 Corinthians chapter 12: encouraging, teaching, and building one another up in the knowledge and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The word "church" comes from the Greek "ekklesia" which means "gathering" or "assembly."
ReplyDeleteTherefore, the church is the gathering of the believers who come together to participate in fellowship with one another as they worship God and hear from His Word, the Bible.
The church as a whole has been equipped with people possessing different spiritual gifts (Rom. 12:5-8). The purpose of the gifts is "for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ." (Eph. 4:12-13).
"The holiest moment of the church service is the moment when God’s people—strengthened by preaching and sacrament—go out of the church door into the world to be the church. We don’t go to church; we are the church."
ReplyDeleteJesus said, "I will build my church" (Matthew 16:18). The church is important to him—he loved it so much that he gave his life for it (Ephesians 5:25). If we have the mind of Christ, we will love the church, too, and give ourselves to it.
ReplyDeleteDescriptions of the church
ReplyDeleteThe church is described in several ways: the people of God, the family of God, the bride of Christ. We are a building, a temple and a body. Jesus described us as sheep, a field of grain and a vineyard. Each analogy describes a different aspect of the church.
Many of Jesus’ parables of the kingdom describe the church, too. Like a mustard seed, the church started small and yet has grown quite large (Matthew 13:31-32). The church is like a field in which weeds are scattered among the wheat (vv. 24-30). It is like a fishnet that catches bad fish as well as good (vv. 47-50). The church is like a vineyard in which some people work a long time and others only a short time (Matthew 20:1-16). The church is like servants who were given money to invest for the master, and some produce more fruit than others (Matthew 25:14-30).
Jesus described himself as a shepherd, and his disciples as sheep (Matthew 26:31); his mission was to seek lost sheep (Matthew 18:11-14). He described his people as sheep that must be fed and cared for (John 21:15-17). Paul and Peter used the same analogy, saying that church leaders should be shepherds of the flock (Acts 20:28; 1 Peter 5:2).
"You are…God’s building," Paul says (1 Corinthians 3:9). The foundation is Jesus Christ (v. 11), and people are the building built on it. Peter said that we are all "living stones...being built into a spiritual house" (1 Peter 2:5). As we are built together, we "become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit" (Ephesians 2:22). We are the temple of God, the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 3:17; 6:19). Although God may be worshiped in any place, the church has worship as one of its purposes.
We are "the people of God," 1 Peter 2:10 tells us. We are what the people of Israel were supposed to be: "a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God" (v. 9; see Exodus 19:6). We belong to God, because Christ purchased us with his blood (Revelation 5:9). We are his children, and his family (Ephesians 3:15). As his people, we are given a great inheritance, and in response we are to try to please him and bring praise to his name.
Scripture also calls us the bride of Christ—a phrase that suggests his love for us, and a tremendous change within ourselves, that we might have such a close relationship with the Son of God. In some of his parables, people are invited to attend the wedding banquet, but in this analogy, we are invited to be the bride.
"Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready" (Revelation 19:7). How do we become ready for this? It is a gift: "Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear" (v. 8). Christ cleanses us "by the washing with water through the word" (Ephesians 5:26). He presents the church to himself, having made her radiant, spotless, holy and righteous (v. 27). He is working in us.
Diana, the Church and the Magisterium consist of people. The catechism and the Bible commentaries are written by people. Nihil obstat imprimatur is granted by people. It is all about fallible human beings who say valid things. What is so hard to understand about this? Even the pope is fallible, except in faith matters.
ReplyDeleteI see you are not well educated in approaches to the Bible, in Lectio Divina for example, perhaps because you neos neglect this very important heritage of our church. In Lectio Divina we use 4 steps to read and pray the Bible. Everything starts with invoking the Holy Ghost and submission to his guidance. Then:
1. In Lectio you read the passage and ask what it tells to your mind and heart.
2. In Meditatio you read the text again, slowly and savoring every word, meditate on it with whole heart and soul. You perceive it as Logos, the presence of the Lord.
3. In Oratio you turn to this presence and pray to Him with the words of the passage.
4. In Contemplatio you attentively hear again the word of God as a whole.
Practicing Lectio Divina is very nourishing for your soul. You are led by the Holy Ghost to get into the mind of the author of the Bible, God himself. You develop a Jesus consciousness that leads you through everyday life by elevating your soul to the Lord. You should ask, what Jesus is trying to tell me today? Am I attentive to his message? Am I willing to listen? Am I ready to find out what he would do in my place? Am I strong enough to do the same? Have you ever asked these questions from yourself, Diana?
Lectio Divina when performed by invoking the Holy Ghost tells you a lot about Scripture. "Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him." How do you interpret this, Diana? Are you waiting for the church to tell you? Foolish. You have to look into yourself and remove those obstacles that block you from the Lord. This is preparing the way! Be straight do not twist the good news into strange “neocatechism”. Or how do you interpret the story of the adulterous woman? Don't you say we are all sinners and destined for inevitable doom without Jesus? You interpreted, Diana, the expression speaking tongues as seminarians speaking different mother languages. Wow! Is this not an interpretation? Did you wait for the church to tell you this?
Diana, your whole understanding of the Holy Ghost prevents you neos from genuinely approach the Bible. Of course we are not Protestants. We do not improvise when interpreting the word. But when we rely on the Holy Ghost, we know the Holy Ghost relies on valid church teaching. The Holy Ghost would never deviate from the words of the Magisterium! So whatever fruit your soul produces under humble submission to the Holy Ghost is a valid interpretation of the Bible, a valid consciousness of the Lord in you.
Diana, I was a while ago in Barrigada 4th community to visit a celebration of word. I know you are from there as they have a female responsible. I guess she is you... Anyway. It did not resemble to Lectio Divina any bit! There were 4 reading interspersed with Kiko songs with strange tunes. I have never heard those songs before. Do these songs belong to the Catholic church at all?
DeleteIn Lectio Divina you don't have 4 readings, you have one passage only. You go through that one passage or section of the Bible slowly and at least 3 times. You savor every word. This would create a sense of presence of the Lord. What I saw in Barrigada did not include any meditation or contemplation on sacred scripture. There were some personal reflections consisting accounts of one's daily life completely detached from the scripture readings. Is this truly the neo version of Lectio Divina?
I did not understand your point here: "The fact that it was YOU who separated the teaching Magisterium from the Church shows your ignorance of the Bible." Could you elaborate, please? I actually did not separate anything. Where did I do that? I said the church consists of people and the Magisterium consists of people as well. Diana, we are all human beings, aren't we? The mystery is that the Holy Ghost can come and lift us up, so that we can discern with humility something true and valid for our life from the Bible.
How could Lectio Divina show my "ignorance" of the Bible Diana? It is exactly the Bible that does not speak about and does not validate the neo approach on its pages anywhere.
Dear Jolene,
DeleteYOU were the one who separated the Magisterium and the Church. I did not do that. You were also the one who stated that when you have the Holy Ghost, you can interpret the Bible, and this is incorrect. Only the teaching Magisterium of the Church has the authority to interpret the Bible.
And for our information, we actually use Lectio Divina in the Neocatechumenal Way. We always invoke the Holy Spirit before we read the Bible. This only goes to show that you know nothing about the Neocatechumenal Way.
Dear Jolene,
DeleteI assure you I am not from the Barrigada community. When we do scrutacio, we also have only one biblical reading to contemplate, reflect, and scrutinize on. The following weblink show that the Neocatechumenal Way practices Lectio Divina. According to the weblink:
"Since becoming Archbishop of Toronto, I have become aware of a form of Lectio Divina practiced by the Neocatechumenal Way, since we have a Redemptoris Mater seminary attached to our Archdiocesan Seminary. I joined in this experience of Lectio Divina on only one occasion, and so am no expert on this method, but it seemed to be most admirable."
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.biblico.it%2FCentenario%2Fconferenze%2Fcollins-inglese.pdf&ei=lAK1VMGhI9DXoASAy4GoDA&usg=AFQjCNFoeuxIHusmI1cgxXtQPJWMVQ2Ctg&sig2=s4YWC9OHXX3IGsVkAz2ihw
You separated the Magisterium from the Church when you stated the following:
"Church does not interpret Bible, Church is not person. The Magisterium interprets Bible, consists of bishops......When you have the Holy Ghost, you can interpret the Bible. Along the Magisterium."
This is incorrect. Only the teaching Magisterium of the Church has the authority to interpret Scripture. Every baptized Catholic has the Holy Spirit in them, but they do not have the authority to interpret scripture. Rather, they should follow the Church's interpretation of Scripture.
You interpret the Bible along the lines of the Magisterium, Diana. The Magisterium does not have an all encompassing official interpretation... What they give us is the main lines. You have to fill in the gaps. You did the same thing and you were right. So do not be afraid to say so. Lol! Verbum Dei says:
DeleteTo search out the intention of the sacred writers, attention should be given, among other things, to "literary forms." For truth is set forth and expressed differently in texts which are variously historical, prophetic, poetic, or of other forms of discourse. The interpreter must investigate what meaning the sacred writer intended to express and actually expressed in particular circumstances by using contemporary literary forms in accordance with the situation of his own time and culture. (7) For the correct understanding of what the sacred author wanted to assert, due attention must be paid to the customary and characteristic styles of feeling, speaking and narrating which prevailed at the time of the sacred writer, and to the patterns men normally employed at that period in their everyday dealings with one another. (8)
But, since Holy Scripture must be read and interpreted in the sacred spirit in which it was written, (9) no less serious attention must be given to the content and unity of the whole of Scripture if the meaning of the sacred texts is to be correctly worked out. The living tradition of the whole Church must be taken into account along with the harmony which exists between elements of the faith. It is the task of exegetes to work according to these rules toward a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture, so that through preparatory study the judgment of the Church may mature. For all of what has been said about the way of interpreting Scripture is subject finally to the judgment of the Church, which carries out the divine commission and ministry of guarding and interpreting the word of God. (10)
Dear Jolene,
DeleteThe Catechism of the Catholic Church is very clear. It stated (capitalization is mine):
CCC 85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church ALONE........
Surely, you understand what "ALONE" means? It means that ONLY the teaching Magisterium of the Church has the authority to interpret Scripture. This authority is not shared by the laity.
Your interpretation is also authentic if it is in line with the Magisterium. You should not deviate from the Magisterium. This is the only rule. Everything is authentic that is by the Holy Ghost.
DeleteJolene,
DeleteWhere can I learn of all that information?
Dear Jolene,
DeleteThat is not my interpretation. That belongs to the Church. I do not take credit for it.
I agree with you, we don't take credit when we read the Word of God under the guidance of the Holy Ghost. All credit goes to the Lord God.
DeleteDiana, it is about the link with the Archbishop of Toronto. It says Lectio Divina is performed in neo seminaries as a prep for the Sunday sermon. It does not say neos practice Lectio Divina in their lay communities or in the word service. Is this correct?
DeleteDear Jolene,
DeleteDid you read my comment above. It says: "Since becoming Archbishop of Toronto, I have become aware of a form of Lectio Divina practiced by the Neocatechumenal Way......"
I copied and pasted that phrase from the weblink I provided.
You are right Diana. The magisterium is the official body of interpreting scripture however that is not to stop the church, us, from contemplating and reflecting and understanding something more, because in the end, the Bible is not for the Magisterium only but for all the people on earth, and although there is the official interpretation that is a guide about the dogmas and major points in scripture mostly. We have to be responsible enough to take interest in reading the Bible and then reflecting upon it to see what the Holy Spirit is saying to us, to every person similarly but different because of each person's different situation. The proests before were handed an interpretation from the Church and they had to stick with it for every little chapter in the Bible. This however was stopped some time ago because it was not the best thing to do because they were restricting the Holy Spirit's work by stopping priests from interpreting, in the light of the Magisterium's interpretation yes, the Bible.
ReplyDeleteDear Keith,
DeleteIn the Way, we do reflect upon the Bible a lot. We do scutacio, which consist of Bible readings and reflection. However, the laity is not supposed to interpret Sacred Scripture. The priests today still follows the Church's interpretation because there is only ONE truth.
The word "truth" is used several times in the New Testament. However, the plural version of the word "truth" never appears in Scripture. Why? Because there can only be ONE Truth or one correct interpretation. So how can there be over 20,000 non-Catholic Christian denominations all claiming to have the "Truth" ( the correct interpretation of the Bible)? Because these Christian churches allowed individual private interpretation. In the Neocatechumenal Way, the laity reflects on the Bible readings and through the Bible readings God can speak to us. But in no way are we supposed to interpret Sacred Scripture.
You are right, Keith. Many people are unable to distinguish between mediatio and contemplatio, that is meditation and contemplation on scripture. This is what I see in the neo services. Especially in the service they call "word". But this is an important distinction.
DeleteFirst you have to read, kinda chew on and savor the words of a segment of the Bible that cannot be done by rushing through a long passage in one singular reading. This would be meditatio that is completely missing from the neo word. Then you pray and start contemplatio that is a very attentive, visual focus on the whole passage so that you feel the presence of the Lord and discern what Jesus is telling you. This step is also missing from the neo service.
I see reference to the Holy Ghost in the neo way by opening the Bible randomly and claiming that the Holy Ghost selected the page. But I could not find any church document that would approve this kind of action by the Holy Ghost. It looks like a questionable invention by the neo.
How can they perform Lectio Divina if their understanding of the work of the Holy Ghost allows this kind of excesses? The Holy Ghost is a sacred divine person.
Dear Jolene,
DeleteYou stated: " I see reference to the Holy Ghost in the neo way by opening the Bible randomly and claiming that the Holy Ghost selected the page. But I could not find any church document that would approve this kind of action by the Holy Ghost. It looks like a questionable invention by the neo."
St. Augustine opened up the Bible randomly to seek what God was trying to tell him. From St. Augustine's confessions, he wrote:
"I was asking myself these questions, weeping all the while with the most bitter sorrow in my heart, when all at once I heard the sing-song voice of a child in a nearby house. Whether it was the voice of a boy or a girl I cannot say, but again and again it repeated the refrain "Take it and read, take it and read". At this I looked up, thinking hard whether there was any kind of game in which children used to chant words like these, but I could not remember ever hearing them before. I stemmed my flood of tears and stood up, telling myself that this could only be a divine command to open my book of Scripture and read the first passage on which my eyes should fall. for I had heard the story of Anthony, and I remembered how he had happened to go into a church while the Gospel was being read and taken it as a counself addresesd to himself when he heard the words: Go home and sell all that belongs to you. ......
So I hurried back to the place where Alypius was sitting, for when I stood up to move away I had put down the book containing Paul's Epistles. I seized it and opened it, and in silence I read the first passage on which my eyes fell: "Not in revelling and drunkenness, not in lust and wantonness, not in quarrels and rivalries. Rather, arm yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, spend no more thought on nature and nature's appetites." I had no wish to read more and no need to do so. For in an instant, as I came to the end of the sentence, it was as though the light of confidence flooded into my heart and all the darkness of doubt was dispelled. ..."
Joelene....
ReplyDelete"Strange tunes"?
So the tunes aren't your preference and that's okay.
Christian rock tunes aren't my preference.
But when you supposedly went to a Celebration of the Word celebrated in the Neocatechumenal Way, and heard these 'strange tunes,' did you also take into consideration the lyrics? THEY ARE FROM SCRIPTURE! Just like all other songs sung and proclaimed by the Catholic Church.
Did you recognize the courage in the brothers -- who have no musical background-- go up to the podium because they know that the words of the songs are the words of the Holy Scriptures?
Did you experience the the sharing of the Word proclaimed, and how it has touched the brothers in their personal lives, or gave them a sense of encouragement and hope?
Did you?
Or did you simply go there with a hardened heart, and just immediately think "Oh whatever! You Neos are stupid! You Neos are wrong! You Neos are weird! You Neos are brainwashed! etc"?
With everything currently going on in the Church, what exactly are you doing to help with the situation, other than persecuting and judging the brothers of the Neocatechemenal Way.
Yes, you seem very well knowledgeable in your Church laws and regulations etc. Like those who aren't in the NCW, the brothers in the communities don't know much about the Catholic Faith, but I can tell you right now that they are trying their damn best to!
So go ahead! Throw your stones at us! Keep it up!.... And God bless you....
I hope you have the courtesy to introduce yourself when you call my name. It is just the same thing you would do if you want to have a conversation someplace else, wouldn't you. We talked about this word service in Barrigada that I had visited a while ago in the context of Lectio Divina. Well, the carpets, the environment and the people were nice, but the session had nothing to do with Lectio Divina. No meditatio or contemplatio was attempted at this session. Please, read my account for details.
DeleteHow can you try your damn best to know about the Catholic Faith if you are actively told not to ask questions; to be obedient to your lay catechists and just shut up; and if the traditions and devotions of the Catholic Church are mocked?
DeleteHow is anything the NCW says of any use if it disobeys lawful instructions on the liturgy; if it brainwashes, harangues and deceives even its own members; and if it ignores the modifications and amendments made to its catechetical directory, lawfully by the Holy See?
To accuse the NCW of "brainwashing" is not a simplistic, ignorant attitude as you seem to suggest. Rather, one comes to this conclusion after much observation, listening and research. I personally have done this, including attending the catechesis, trying to speak with as many people involved in the "Way" as I can, and by researching and understanding the written guidance of the Holy See on these matters. Despite the political savvy of the 'movement', I think its days are numbered, at least in its current form. God bless you too
Dear Anonymous at 2:55 pm,
DeleteAs you can see from this blog site, I and many others know our faith because we are encouraged to read the Bible, the Catechism, and the writings of the Church Fathers. The only ones accusing us of being brainwashed are those who oppose the Archbishop like Tim Rohr and Chuck White, and these two have never heard the catechesis to determine whether it is Catholic or not. They simply say it is not Catholic without hearing it. The Way has been in existence for 50 years and still growing. There are now 102 Redemptoris Mater Seminary worldwide.
That still does not give your leaders the right to force the NCW on other Catholics. You can't deny that this is happening. Still no right to take what is not theirs.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 3:21 pm,
DeleteNo one is forcing them to be there. If they wish to leave the Way, they are free to leave.
Yes, the NCW Is being forced down the throats of us other Catholics when we are held "hostage" during mass to listen to their invitation to joy. What makes them think our mass is not a joy to us? They need to stop the intrusion already. Enough is enough!!
DeleteI am fairly new in the Neocatechumenal Way.
ReplyDeleteI must say that with all the shit going on between the Catholics in the NCW and those who aren't, I think it is pretty cool that the members in the NCW continue to pray for those who publicly mock them via social media.
That, in my eyes, is a perfect example (for me) of Christ's Love for those who hated Him.
Anon 12:14 am, do you also think it is pretty cool that those who are not members the NCW continue to pray for those in the NCW who publicly mock them via social media.
DeleteIs that not also a perfect example (for you) of Christ's Love for those who hated him?
NCW Newbie, this is what the old timers say. is this full of Christs' Love?
Delete"Guam is full of dry bones, parishes are dead, non neo priests dead, our role is to bring life to the community."
I am an old timer 2:10PM and I don't say Guam is full of dry bones. if your bones are dry you allowed it to be that way. Don't blame anyone.
Deletebring life back to the Church?.....no priest...neo or non neo can do this without the will of God.
DeleteThe NCW is bringing back life to our parishes. God's will be done