As we already know, the Archdiocese of Agana came out publicly and said that it was the former Finance Council who wanted to sell the seminary in Yona to pay off the debts incurred by the Cathedral and Catholic cemeteries. Some people found this to be NEW information, when it was actually information that was given FIVE MONTHS AGO. A few anonymous commenters even asked me for evidence to show that the former Finance Council wanted to sell the property.
After the Archdiocese came out with this statement, Concerned Catholics declared that this statement was not true without even investigating the former Financial Council. According to KUAM news:
In Father Adrian's response to KUAM News he states that it was the Archdiocese Finance Council who wanted to alienate the seminary and sell it to cover the debt incurred by the catholic cemeteries, however the CCOG contends that this is not the case and alleges that Archbishop Anthony Apuron secretly made the declaration to assign the property over to the Redemptoris Mater Seminary Corporation in November 2011.
http://www.kuam.com/story/27788721/2015/01/08/debate-continues-over-control-of-seminary
So, here we have CCOG already concluding that the Archdiocese statement on the Finance Council wanting to sell the seminary is false without conducting any investigation on the former Finance Council. Regarding Father Adrian's response to KUAM, Tim Rohr said that it was a lie. According to Tim Rohr:
...and just in time for the former AFC's meeting with the Visitators tomorrow. Did you forget that the AFC actually has the minutes of their meetings and can prove that you are lying? And, incredible, you actually submitted your comments in writing to KUAM!! Haven't you guys learned yet not to write anything? Now the former AFC actually has absolute documentation of your lies. Absolute! And you want to be the next bishop????
http://www.junglewatch.info/2015/01/lol-adrian.html
Thus, here we have both CCOG and Tim Rohr saying that Father Adrian's responses to KUAM is false and a lie. So, did the former Finance Council wanted to SELL the seminary? According to the Pacific Daily News dated January 9, 2015 (the bold is mine):
Businessman Richard Untalan, former government of Guam budget director Joseph E. Rivera, Sister Mary Stephen Torres and Monsignor James Benavente were "terminated en masse" from the finance council after they objected to Apuron's decision, according to the letter they sent to the archbishop in January 2012.
A donation to the archdiocese allowed it to snap up the former hotel more than a decade ago for $2 million. The property cost $57 million to develop, but a business sold it after it failed as a hotel operation.
The finance council at the time wrote to Apuron that the property, if sold by the archdiocese, "can eliminate the entire debt of the archdiocese" using just a fraction of the sale proceeds.
http://www.guampdn.com/article/20150109/NEWS01/301090003/Archdiocese-Apuron-full-control-Accion-property
Notice what I placed in bold: "The finance council at the time wrote to Apuron that the property, if sold by the archdiocese, "can eliminate the entire debt of the archdiocese" using just a fraction of the sale proceeds." Monsignor James Benavente was a member of the Finance Council and knew that selling the seminary would eliminate the debts of the cathedral and Catholic cemeteries. At any rate, it is reported in the PDN that the Finance Council WROTE to Apuron about selling the property, and obviously the Archbishop has that letter.
If CCOG was REALLY interested in finding out about the TRUTH, they would have gone back and investigated the former finance council. Apparently, Concerned Catholics is not really concerned about the truth, which makes their agenda suspect.
BECAUSE THE CCOG ARE LIARS!
ReplyDeleteLIARS I TELL TA! LIARS!!
Diana, would you happen to know who the realtor is for the Accion hotel?
CCOG is concerned about some things. Please. give straight answer to each concern and CCOG will go away. Who owns RMS? Who gives and who spends the money? Who do neos violate their Statutes? etc.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:03 am,
DeleteWe have been giving you straight answers. You ask who owns RMS. We have already given you the answer to that question. Father Adrian already answered that question through the media. It is not our fault that you chose not to believe him. Father Pius also came out to the media and answered where the RMS gets most of its money. Again, it is not our fault that you chose not to believe.
As for the NCW, we do not violate our Statutes. The only ones who have been accusing us of violating our Statutes are those who are against the Way. Do you not read the news? An investigation was ordered by Pope Benedict XVI to determine whether the Way is in violation of its Statutes. For over a year, nothing ever came from that investigation. When Francis became Pope, he ceased all investigations of the Way. I am certain that Pope Francis is not going to dismiss those investigations without first looking at it. It would be negligent on the Pope's part if he did not look at the investigation before dismissing the investigation. The investigations were dismissed because the accusations against the NCW was unfounded.
I believe everything you say, Diana. Lol! I just ask questions. Why do you handle RMS money separately from parish money and church money? Is not the church ONE? I don't care about investigation and such. I just wanna hear straight answer. Why don't you ever sing the songs of the ONE church? Why do you sit down once you have received the host in holy mass? Why don't you show respect to the Lord by standing until the host is consumed? Why do you disrespect the holy service by chatting about your personal business into microphone during mass? Shall I ask more?
DeleteDear Jolene,
DeleteThey are handled separately because parish money is supposed to be spent on the parish and RMS money is supposed to be spent for the seminary. I find it amazing that you guys complain when you think that parish money from the Sunday Mass collections is going to the seminary. When Dr. Eusebio came out and said that the collection money stays in the parish, you guys are now complaining that they are separate?
What makes you think that we do not show respect to the Lord? Only God can see the person's heart. That means that only God knows who in the Mass is actually listening to His word and who is daydreaming during Mass. And here you are accusing all of us as though we were all daydreaming during the Mass.
Diana, I did not say anything about daydreaming. Lol! I talk about very loud and nonsensical utterances that distract people from the mass. Why do you neos do that? Fyi, an extensive collection of taped evidence is going to be built to expose your practices.
DeleteWhy should I believe anything Dr. Eusebio is claiming? I can also say anything without proof... would you believe me?! Lol and lol again!
Why do you guys stand up during mass in the first place when you receive the host if you immediately sit down afterward and consume the body of our beloved Lord while sitting? Is this not hypocrisy to stand up first and then sit down immediately? I am so puzzled, Diana, you have no idea how much I ponder...
By the way, you did not answer any single question I had asked from you. Please, try harder. What kind of speaker are you, anyway?
Dear Jolene,
DeleteI have been in the celebrations, and I have no idea what loud and nonsensical utterances you are speaking about. And for your information, Dr. Eusebio is a member of the Board of the Directors of the seminary and have seen the financial report of the RMS. I have already answer your questions, and I am not here to keep repeating myself. The Vatican has approved of our practice. If you do not believe that, you can fly to Rome and ask them because obviously anything we say you will not believe.
Diana, are you serious? Am I supposed to believe something that Dr. Eusebio, whoever he might be, allegedly HAVE SEEN? Why don't you guys publish that as the low requires? Why do you think, my dear, that I should believe anything that is held secret and unpublished??
DeleteDear Jolene,
DeleteThis is exactly what I mean. I already said that Dr. Eusebio is a member of the Board of Directors of the Seminary and has seen the financial report. He actually wrote to the PDN assuring everyone that the parish money from Sunday's collections are NOT going to the seminary.
Yet, you chose to believe a plumber (Tim Rohr) who says that the Sunday Mass collections are going to the seminary without any evidence to show for it. But you refuse to believe the Board of Directors of the Seminary (Dr. Eusebio) whose job is to look at the financial report of the seminary.
Diana, Dr. Eusebio is a neo, isn't he? He says what neos want to hear. So honestly, what are you talking about? Are you trying to fool me? It won't happen. Lol!
DeleteWhat I am asking is this: when you collect money for RMS are you aware that you are collecting money inside the church for Catholic cause? Now, collecting money inside the church for Catholic cause should be administered BY the church and not by neos. It also should be a Catholic cause, not a neo cause. Then an official church body should account for all the money raised and distribute according to particular needs. If a parish is in need then money should be given to that parish first. The church is ONE just as the Holy Ghost is ONE and belongs to our God!
Dear Jolene,
DeleteHow do YOU know that Dr. Eusebio says what the neos want to hear? How are you 100% certain of this??
You say "collecting money inside the church for Catholic cause should be administered BY the Church and not only by the neos." This is where the problems lies. You think that we are NOT the Church. We are also part of the Church. If you do not believe us, you can fly to Rome and ask the Pope.
Jolene,
DeleteWhy do you have a problem with us sitting, standing, whatever we are doing during the mass? I wont ask nor bother you whatever you are doing during the mass. And I have not personally ask anything from you. SO GET OFF OUR BACK! AND IF YOU DONT LIKE THIS BLOG, DONT VISIT NOR READ ANY BECAUSE FOR SURE, THIS ISNT FOR YOU!
Why do you want to bully me away? Have I ever hurt you?
DeleteI just wonder if you truly revere the Lord? Why don't you neos kneel during mass? How do you interpret this Scripture "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth"? Puzzled.
DeleteDear Jolene,
DeleteIt is obvious that you are not here on this blogsite to try to understand those walking in the Way. No matter what we say, you will not believe us because you have already made up your mind about the Neocatechumenal Way.
How is that Diana? Why would I make up my mind? I don't understand your point. I am trying to make a conversation. But you only pontificate and make one sided declarations without supporting evidence.
DeleteDear Jolene,
DeleteYou have already made up your mind not to believe anything that a "neo" says. I already told you that Dr. Eusebio is a member of the Board of Directors df the Seminary, and he has already said that money collected from Sunday Masses do not go to the seminary. You chose not to believe him simply because he is in the Way......thereby judging that those who walk in the Way are not to trusted. Yet, you place your trust on a plumber who did not even provide any evidence of his accusation.
You stated above that Dr. Eusebio says what noes want to hear. This is your opinion and you have nothing to support your opinion. You have already judged Dr. Eusebio for lying simply because he walks in the Way. You say that you are in the 4th community of Barrigada. So what are you doing there? If you disagree with everything about the Way, you are free to leave.
DeleteIt is amazing the amount of misconceptions people have of the Neocatechumenal Way. How did we come to be the punching bag of priests and Catholics in Guam? I have never seen the catechists or the Archbishop carry a gun and threaten anyone to join. I have never seen them take so much as a dime of our people’s money for themselves. Money is always a sensitive subject and goals for how it is spent is clearly delineated. In San Vicente Church our mass is published in the Sunday bulletin as well as collections, like all the masses. Let me assure you that the money you give in the collection basket is not going to the seminary since most, if not all the money collected is spent for the parish. As a member of the Board of Directors of the Seminary, I have witnessed the financial reports and confirm this fact. Finally, I have never heard or seen a grand design to insert all Catholics in Guam in the Way or a plan to “take over” all parishes in Guam. We are all different and some, like myself, need more help than others. Why can’t we make this available for everyone?
Oust the Archbishop!!! Is this the same man who was lauded for leading the fight against gambling, abortion, and same sex marriage? He was being praised and defended. While leading these battles, did anyone question if he was being influenced by the Neocatechumenal Way? Serving his flock faithfully as he was chosen by the Vatican, now suddenly he is EVIL?? Selective amnesia I guess! What is the agenda behind these coordinated efforts to tarnish his name, reputation and office? Despite his efforts to be transparent, the facts he present seem to be taken out of context and interpreted in a “colored” malicious manner. These public demonstrations of animosity only magnify and confirm the perception of division within the Catholic Church in Guam. How do you deny people who have been faraway from the Church this discovery of a post baptismal itinerary, new found vocations, rebuilt marriages and children who would never have been born? The most glaring and frustrating fact is through all these attacks, criticisms and malicious gossip, there has never been a single proposal to answer our problems of divorce, suicide, single parent families and bringing back the faraway catholic. Will getting rid of the Archbishop, the Neocatechumenal Way, and the Seminary answer these problems? If you truly are convinced that this is the answer, you are fooling yourself and need to re-consider who is being brainwashed. Too much time and energy is being spent on this conflict and it is imperative that we work together. The enemy is out there attempting to divide and conquer. It is not the Archbishop and the Neocatechumenal Way!
You are the one who is judgmental Diana. I did not make up my mind. I am waiting for evidence. Evidence is some document that has been published and can be inspected. What is your concept of evidence? I am not in the 4th community of Barrigada, although I had visited them a while ago. I hope you have the basic courtesy to allow this correction to appear.
DeleteI have never said oust the Archbishop. I am not from junglewatch. I am an inquirer like Keith.
DeleteDear Jolene
DeleteYou did not need evidence when someone said that the Sunday Mass collection in the parishes are being sent to the Seminary. The NCW was not the one who made this accusation. Why don't you ask those who say that the Sunday Mass collections are being sent to the seminary for evidence since they were the ones who made the accusation in the first place. Since you already believe those who made this accusation, then ask them for the evidence. Dr. Eusebio already came out and said that it was false.
Diana, I never said those things. My questions were somewhat different. Let me repeat here:
Delete1. Who owns RMS? Who gives and who spends the money?
2. Why do you handle RMS money separately from parish money and church money? Is not the church ONE?
3. What I am asking is this: when you collect money for RMS are you aware that you are collecting money inside the church for Catholic cause? Now, collecting money inside the church for Catholic cause should be administered BY the church and not by neos. It also should be a Catholic cause, not a neo cause. Then an official church body should account for all the money raised and distribute according to particular needs. If a parish is in need then money should be given to that parish first. The church is ONE just as the Holy Ghost is ONE and belongs to our God!
I am asking not because of junglewatch or whatever, but because of the news. The island had been abundantly informed about the controversy through local media. Don't you know that people read, heard and watched the news in every corner? I am one of those who became very curious. I don't think the archbishop should resign in lack of undisputed evidence of wrongdoing. But I would appreciate if someone would honestly pour clean water into the glass.
Dear Jolene,
Delete1. The Archbishop owns and controls the seminary. The Neocatechumenal Way gives the money to support the seminary. .
2. Because parish money goes to the parish and the money in the Way supports the evangelization. We have mission families and itinerants who go on missions to other countries.
3. Yes, we collect money for the cause for the entire Catholic Church. You say that collecting money inside the church for Catholic cause should be administered by the Church and NOT by the neos. The Neos is PART of the Church. We are Catholics.
You say that it should be a Catholic cause, not a neo cause. The neo cause IS the Catholic cause. The problem here is that you do not see the neo as part of the Catholic Church. Tell me, do you see the Legion of Mary, Couples of Christ, and the Christian Mothers as part of the Catholic Church or not? Are the people in these organizations Catholic or not?
Yes, but the "Way" is prohibited from having any material goods (including money) by its own statutes. Oh and are you saying the NCW is an organization now?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 12:03 pm,
DeleteMy community does not have any money. We have our own savings account, but that is ours individually. It does not belong to the Way. If we wish to purchase a chalice and paten to be used for the Eucharist, we collect money from the members of the Way, and the money goes to the purchasing of a chalice and paten. If there are any left overs, the brothers decide what to do with it. We can either donate it to the seminary or the parish, but the community cannot keep it.
How can DIana a young woman and not a priest who has been walking for eight years possiblly have this information? HMMMMMMMMMMMM. dishonesty will not pay off.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 2:24 pm,
DeleteI only used the newspaper.
Your statement in bold is only a small segment of the letter. After reading the rest of the original letter, you will understand that the statement was used as an example and not the main point of the letter.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to Msgr. James using that to pay the debts: who in their right mind would sell a $57m property to pay of a $2m debt. That's too big of an asset to sell to may such a small debt in comparison. And don't forget that the Archbishop was the one who signed off on the Cathedral's and Cemeteries' loan..approved by the Vatican because the loan exceeded $1 million so to put the blame fully on Msgr. James is a little unfair don't you think?
Dear Anonymous at 2:32 pm,
DeleteWhen someone is placed in charge, it is because the Archbishop trusts that person so signing off would not be a problem when there is trust. Somewhere down the road, the audit showed that something was wrong. Could it be that the Archbishop was misled? For a long time, the financial report has not been published, and Archbishop Balvo has been asking for it. After replacing a few people, the financial report of the Archdiocese was completed for publication. Sometimes, one needs to change in order to get things done.
The Archdiocese only published the financials after Tim Rohr and others pointed out their poor form.
DeleteDiana, it is not a sign of decency to fire an entire church body when disagreement occurs. A bishop can be good shepherd of souls but horrible shepherd of church properties at the same time! Trust also means being trusted. If the Archbishop trusted some people, then the these people also trusted the Archbishop. So it goes both directions.
DeleteThe RMS in Yona is too big for its function. It is also prohibitively expensive to maintain. Part of the building has been abandoned, not cleaned but left dirty and already smells bad if you get close. The high dropout rate is a cause of concern as well. These young people leave the seminary empty handed without proper education and no credit for the work they had done. This undermines the image of a 'good school' which RMS is definitely not.
Dear Anonymous at 4:36 pm,
DeleteTim Rohr does not deserve the credit. For all we know, he most likely contributed to the problem.
Dear voice of faith,
DeleteYou say it is too expensive to maintain; yet, it is still being maintained for 14 years now. Many of these seminarians go on to finish their graduation at the Laterian University in Rome. Apparently, the Laterian University in Rome feels that these priests from the RMS are well-trained otherwise they would not issue out their degrees. If you feel that they are not well-trained, then you should write to the Laterian University in Rome and let them know that they are wrong in giving the degrees to these men.
What high drop-out rate are you referring to? Since the creation of the seminary, we now see an increase. Previously, Junee was the only seminarian at the John Paul II institute. Now, we have 5 seminarians there.
Diana, you cannot even spell it correctly. It is Lateran and not Laterian. i would like to see the records of relations between RMS and the Lateran University. I am sure there would be big surprises when you would dare to publish a detailed account of seminarians who go to the Lateran from the RMS. Lol!
DeleteThe truth is that about 50% of RMS students go home without a degree earned. Their education is a waste of money and effort. That money actually is, every penny of it, of the Catholic Church! So how do you dare to say RMS does not owe producing a detailed account given to the church?? Or, ah I just forgot, is this you usual trash bag accounting procedure? Big frown!
Dear voice of faith,
DeleteDo you have the research study showing that 50 % of RMS students go home without a degree earned or is that only your opinion?
There is no full time professor with a Ph.D. in theology at RMS. No requirement is satisfied, no quality control is fulfilled. How do you make sure your seminarians do not obtain a fake education?
DeleteDear Jolene,
DeleteDo you not keep up with the news? This is why Archbishop Convoloo on was on Guam last December to certify the Redemptoris Mater Seminary. That was only last month.
"Their education is a waste of money and effort. "
DeleteOf course, money... the most important thing in the world... no comments.
However I read somewhere that the Church distinguishes four major dimensions in the formation of seminarians: human, spiritual, intellectual and pastoral.
My dear education is a part of this formation but not the only one.
Pax et bonum
"Ubi Petrus ibi Ecclesia"
my dear Diana;
ReplyDeleteagain with the half truths
"For a long time, the financial report has not been published"
it was not our job to publish, only ONE person can "authorize" its publication
Dear Anonymous at 4:37 pm,
DeleteIn order for that one person to get the financial report published, he needed the COOPERATION of others. They were not cooperating, so when he finally changed them, the financial report was now published.
that report is from Deloitte & Touche, which was a review, not all items were reviewed, which the chancery published
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:50 pm,
DeleteThe report also said that it was inauditable.
A never ending story. It is a battle of he said she said and both camps won't back down. This problem will further escalate. Therefore we need Rome to intercede and help this crumbling Church we have on Guam.
ReplyDeleteDear Diana at 9.18 AM:
ReplyDelete"When Francis became Pope, he ceased all investigations of the Way. I am certain that Pope Francis is not going to dismiss those investigations without first looking at it. It would be negligent on the Pope's part if he did not look at the investigation before dismissing the investigation. The investigations were dismissed because the accusations against the NCW was unfounded. "
Actually, Pope Francis ceased the investigation into the NCW in both the Congregation for Divine Worship (liturgical matters), and the congregation for the Doctrine of teh Faith (obviously Benedict suspected heresy) because he was aware that these congregations had been infiltrated by Neo/liberal sympathisers (the same ones responsible for the Card Burke fiasco in 2012) and decided that the path of a formal investigation would be compromised.
The Holy Father has other plans to deal with the disobedience of the NCW.
Dear Anonymous at 4:21 pm,
DeleteYour comment does not make any sense. Pope Francis has been cleaning out the Vatican curia. He removed the financial council and put in new people in place. He is not afraid to make these changes. Rather than dismissing the investigation, he could easily dismiss the liberal sympathisers. The Neocatechumenal Way, on the other hand, is NOT liberal. The NCW do not go hand in hand with the Liberals.