It is important not to deceive the Catholic faithful and cause further division in the Church. If a person makes an error in Catholic teaching, it is important that he/she be corrected. The error must not spread as though it is truth. The Catholic faithful should not be deceived. Priests and bishops have a responsibility to lead the Catholic faithful into truth. If a priest or bishop makes an error, they can be corrected. Even a layperson can correct the priest or bishop with charity. This is what Fulton Sheen meant when he said that we the lay people must see to it that our priests act like priests and our bishops act like bishops.However, correction does not apply only to a priest or bishop. It also applies to all the Catholic faithful. We also correct our brothers and sisters. We all make mistakes and should correct each other in the spirit of charity so that we can help each other grow in faith. And a correction is not a judgement. This post is in response to Rohr's letter in the Pacific Daily News. According to Tim Rohr:
So who is Apuron’s superior?
Until we hear otherwise, it is Archbishop Michael Jude Byrnes. Apuron remains a priest of the Archdiocese of Agana. Byrnes is now the ordinary of this diocese, which means he is the supreme authority in the governance of the Archdiocese of Agana, and Apuron, while he retains the status of bishop, is a priest, albeit a bishop, incardinated in this diocese.
There are many "ranks" of Bishops (Auxillary, Coadjutor, Cardinal, etc.). Nevertheless, a Bishop is ordained only once. And during their ordination, they ALREADY made an Episcopal vow, and this vow is made only once. Their vow of obedience is different from a regular priest who promised to be obedient to a bishop. Therefore, regardless of whether a bishop is promoted to Archbishop or Cardinal, the person whom he promised obedience to still stands and cannot be changed or undone. The same is also true if he is deprived of his diocese; yet, still retains his title or status as Bishop. When a Bishop is ordained, to whom does he promise obedience? According to the Ordination Rite of Bishops:
Principal consecrator: Are you resolved to be faithful in your obedience to the successor of the apostle Peter?
Bishop-elect: I am.So, in his ordination, to whom does the Bishop promised to be obedient????? In their ordination or consecration, every bishop promised obedience to the Pope (the successor of the Apostle Peter). If his title is changed from Bishop to Archbishop, he does not need to make another vow of obedience. His vow still stands simply because it is a vow of obedience to the successor of the Apostle Peter.
Rohr is saying that Archbishop Apuron's superior is Archbishop Byrnes. Rohr is either placing Archbishop Byrnes as the Pope, or he is saying that Archbishop Apuron should give up his promise of obedience to the Pope and make a promise of obedience to Archbishop Byrnes. Either way, Rohr is still incorrect. And it is important to correct this error in teaching because it is not Catholic teaching.
Jesus chose 12 Apostles. Of the 12 Apostles, he assigned one person to be the leader, the Apostle Peter. All the Apostles are supposed to follow Peter because Christ promised to build His Church on Peter. Christ's Church is not based on a place, but on a person. In the same way, all bishops are successors of the Apostles, but Christ assigned only one person to be the successor of the Apostle Peter....the Pope. In their ordination, all bishops promised obedience to the successor of the Apostle Peter....the Pope.
Although a bishop can be called a priest, he is essentially different from a regular priest. A priest is incardinated into a diocese and makes a promise of obedience to the bishop who ordained him. Once a priest becomes a bishop, he makes a promise of obedience to the Pope, and the Pope can assign him anywhere.
Furthermore, Rohr describes the Archbishop's situation as a "prisoner of the Church." Since when has the Catholic Church ever taken or held prisoners? The government.....I can understand......but the Catholic Church? No one is a prisoner of the Catholic Church. They are free to leave the Church if they want. A priest or bishop are also free to live the life of a layperson if they choose (See the weblink here). Our priests and bishops are not prisoners of the church. Together with us, they are part of the Body of Christ.
Diana, you write with the assumption that Rohr is interested in the truth... He doesn't care about the Catholic Church, the faithful, the people... all he cares is how 'he' looks, he cares about 'his' marketing image, 'his' credibility, 'his' narrative of the events... he is a scumbag, for a lack of a better word... a vermin of society. I do not mean it in a disrespectful way, it is descriptive of his hatred and deliberate desire to deceive everyone.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry, I would like to sound more positive, but the way PDN supports Tim, Tim's achievements, Byrnes complicitness, has left me nauseated at their lack of empathy for Archbishop Apuron. The real victim of these immoral men.
Dear Anonymous at 10:09 am,
DeleteNevertheless, Rohr is still our brother. He needs to be corrected. And the rest of our Catholic brothers should not be deceived by false teachings.
I don’t think Diana was writing with the assumption that Tim was interested in the truth. She corrects mainly for the sake of all Catholics and to dispel the lies promoted by Tim. The Catechism classes that Tim teaches at the Tamuning Church should be reviewed by AB Byrnes. Rather, he makes the excuse that he needs to review the Catechetical Directory approved by Rome. Byrnes is no different from Tim. Like Tim, he also judges AB Apuron.
DeleteICYDK: Anonymous at 12:59 PM (and anyone else): Tim Rohr has been live streaming the catechism study group on Facebook for several weeks and there's a possibility that Archbishop Byrnes has already checked in on the live stream (or video afterwards).
DeleteI honestly think Archbishop Byrnes wants to learn about the NCW by asking to review the Catechetical Directory. But from what you seem to be saying he has no right to see it. Instead you say that Archbishop Byrnes needs to be reviewing Tim Rohr. It's actually much easier for him to review Tim Rohr because Tim Rohr is sharing his catechism study group publicly for others to see (and criticize). On the other hand your Catechetical Directory is secret just like your services and a person will need to be part of the NCW (like it's a secret club) to be able to see what's going on.
Say what you will about Tim Rohr but he keeps putting himself out there to give you more ammunition to criticize him. Does he care? I don't think so because he keeps doing what he believes is right the same way you keep doing what you believe is right.
Dear Anonymous at 1:31 pm,
DeleteOur catechesis are not kept secret. They are made public. All a person had to do was attend the catechesis. That is the same thing as Rohr’s live stream. That is also the only way to ensure that the catechists are following the Catechetical Directory. Reviewing a book already approved by the Holy See is not going to show whether the Catechists are following the book or not.
The big difference between the NCW catechesis and Rohr’s meeting is that the NCW has a priest present to ensure that the catechists who are lay people follow the teachings of the church. Rohr has no such measure in place. As a result, look at his letter to the PDN, and look at how many times he changes his stories and contradicts himself.
If Archbishop Byrnes truly want to learn about the NCW, then meet the NCW. The NCW is not the Catechetical Directory. The NCW is a people who are part of the Catholic Church.
Please, give Archbishop Byrnes a break. He is a person of authority given him by his ordination. Tim Rohr does not compare to him.
DeleteRohr is adamant in what he is doing and he speaks of it publicly in the media. He is predictable, you can figure his next move based on his biases. The only way to counter his influence is to go to the media and speak up publicly against the misinformation he spreads. Otherwise he wins. Confront him publicly or face doom! In the modern dog-eat-dog world if you do not show yourself in the media, you don't exist.
The challenge of Archbishop Byrnes is to keep the archdiocese solvent. The financial problems will come when payments to victims will be due We are already in the middle of that. We already face the consequences even if not everybody is aware of that. According to most recent polls, the Catholic population of Guam fell from 85% below 70%, an all-time low in the American era. This in unprecedented.
The Archbishop has to look into it if it is sustainable to keep 23 distinct parishes and churches current endowed with consecrated pastors and staff.
I'm with you "Grow up in faith." It's been mentioned more than once that by keeping all the discussion about Tim Rohr and his (mis)information in this blog does absolutely nothing to inform the general public about the errors he spreads. I think it's called preaching to the choir by telling each other that Tim Rohr is wrong. People here know it but until someone has the COURAGE to stand up against Tim Rohr and counter him point by point the media and the public won't know.
DeleteBTW: I'm not talking about having Dr. Ric Eusebio go on another one of his rants like he has done before. That accomplished NOTHING. I watched him ramble on and on trashing Mother Dawn and saying that some nun was dead. To my surprise I ran into Mother Dawn several months later and she told me that the nun had been listening to her premature obituary by Dr. Eusebio. No. I'm talking about Diana or someone who is able to take each point that Tim Rohr makes and then destroy his claims.
As long as the information stays on this blog, people will remain ignorant.
Is it sustainable to keep 26 (I just checked; it's 26, not 23) distinct parishes? No, I don't think so. I truly believe that smaller parishes can be "absorbed" by larger ones. The only one I think that needs to be "distinct" is St. Andrew Kim so that our Korean brethren who are not able to understand the English (or Chamorro) language will be able to understand the liturgy and grow in their faith.
Whatever else happens, I really hope that the errors that Tim Rohr spreads can be properly corrected outside of this blog.
Diana did an excellent job in destroying Tim's credibility. The word needs to spread out throughout the media in Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and comments in the news website. Anyone can make a comment under Tim's letter to the PDN by posting the URL of Diana's post.
DeleteGoing one on one with Tim has been tried. Genarinni offered to speak to Tim with the media, and he refused. Tim will not go one on one on the media with someone more intelligent than him.
Dear Grace, I remember Diana's frequent contributor Zoltan used to be in the media and tv- shows talking for NCW. He was like the public face of his organization. What happened to him? I don't see him publishing in this blog anymore. Birds in the Chancery are chirping that he visited the Archbishop about a year ago and he was critical. Perhaps he was told not to "walk" the steps of NCW no more?! Diana should know the answer.
DeleteZoltan is in my community. He is still walking in the Way.
DeleteThis is from the comment section of PDN. I guess this is actually Zoltan writing to Tim Rohr. What on earth is senior jogger??
Delete----------------------------------
Zol Székely ·
Senior jogger at Cops & Joggers 5k Run/Walk
Tim Rohr, your obvious pre-occupation with and incessant chastising of a person who has been convicted guilty in unknown violation of church rules in a Vatican tribunal is incommensurable with your advocacy for victims of childhood sexual abuse.
People know you as a person with deep concern for sexual abuse victims, someone like a local arm of SNAP regional director Joelle Casteix on Guam. Under her instruction and with a heavy media campaign championed by PDN journalist Haidee Eugenio, you stood up for sexual abuse victims in the Guam Legislature so that the statute of limitation would be lifted and the sexual abuse victims can make their claims at court.
Therefore, why are you escaping yourself as a role model of advocation for sexual abuse victims? People want to see what kind of person you are, who stands up for sexual abuse victims. You make an impression that you don't really care, that you are only using the pain and suffering of childhood sexual abuse victims as a tool to advance a strictly power centered agenda of a handful of power players in local church politics.
Letting know sexual abuse victims that they are only the red cards in a card game of power, wealth and influence in destroying the church positions of a former leader is like selling their suffering for advances and profit. It is like abusing them a second time again and taking their pain for material gain. This is the SNAP prescription.
Are you not ashamed of turning your advocacy role for sexual abuse victims into a game of cards?
---------------------------------
https://www.guampdn.com/story/opinion/readers/2018/04/06/letter-apuron-effectively-prisoner-church/488515002/
My personal comment: not many people read the comment section of PDN. So the impact is not that big. It is not easy to follow, especially when I don't know some of these words. But whatever it means, I believe Tim Rohr is not "incommensurable" or whatnot, he is simply a liar! A big one of that.
Diana, it is a misconception what Rohr states. He associates the Archbishop with the NCW communities. How? We do not support our Archbishop because he became a member of our communities. This is absolutely unrelated! We support Archbishop Apuron, because he is the rightful leader locally of the Catholic Church.
ReplyDeleteIt is so wrong what they state. Who is the rightful Archbishop? We all know who he is, Archbishop Apuron, by his office! He was not appointed into his office by Tim Rohr, but the Pope! So until the Pope does not withdraw appointment, he is our Archbishop. Why is this so hard to understand for Tim Rohr?
Archbishop Apuron liked the NCW and happened to join. What is wrong with them? Now, they accuse him, because he joined. But it is completely different things, the Archbishop on one side and the communities on the other side. You attack, we protect each other. Not because he is a member of the NCW but because this is the right thing to do.
Also the Vatican tribunal was unrelated to the NCW. The prelates investigated the false accusations and made an unrelated decision. It is unrelated to the accusations as the canon lawyers said. I believe a canon lawyer knows his expertise better than Tom Rohr!
Now, David Sablan states the same thing as Tim Rohr. They both state the NCW is at fault. We have to refuse that as 100% unrelated! We did not cause the canonical trial that was based on false accusation of lifting the statute of limitation. We have the proof that they lifted the law to make false accusations in court in completely unrelated matters! We have to make it very clear to David Sablan that we in the NCW are 100% unrelated to his false accusation.
In recent days there was a conference in Rome against the Pope, led by Cardinal Burke and Msgr. Schineider, notoriously against the neocatechumenal way. But the news is another: the adherence to the positions of Burke by the Chinese cardinal Zen in contrast to the Pope for dialogue with the Chinese government, Zen is the spiritual guide of Msgr. Savio Hon. A perfect storm on Guam
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at April 9, 2018 8:27AM,
DeleteDon't know what you are trying to say.
What kind of planning went into the decision to relocate the chancery offices to the Agana Cathedral by September? Why the rush? Don't think the impact of such a move was thoroughly analyzed.
DeleteWhat impact? Disposition of historical documents and artifacts. Where to store records. Where to place and preserve church relics? What about the large statue of Blessed Diego de San Vitores? What about the outdoor Stations of the Cross? And other precious items.
What impact? Termination of chancery office staff. Termination of Cathedral Rectory staff. Loss of key people with important knowledge of diocesan matters. Basically a brain drain of how our diocese actually operates.
What impact? Tension of affected clergy. Look at the abrupt move of Father Paul to Yigo. Look at the power plays of Msgr James and Father Jeff. It is no wonder that clergy are requesting to leave the diocese.
What more drama is ahead for our Archdiocese of Agana?
I know this does not pertain to the OP, but I just saw an article in PDN https://www.guampdn.com/story/news/2018/04/09/archbishop-michael-jude-byrnes-makes-further-church-leadership-changes/498001002/ in which Eugenia says Gofigan is appointed as parochial vicar and then in the same article that he is taking over leadership of the Yigo parish. There must be an error there.
ReplyDeleteDear WBSM,
DeleteI wonder where Father Julio is assigned to. They keep moving priests around and it is not even a year. Jokers Wild said that Father Paul was happy to get out of Agana.
Don't think Father Julio and other off-island priests will be returning to Guam with the clergy politics going on in the diocese.
Delete