Tim Rohr is already paying very dearly for what he has done, and the NCW did not have to do anything. There are consequences to a person's actions. Tim's actions had consequences, and it cost him his marriage and family. Can he now say that the 8 million pageview was worth it? Nevertheless, Tim still needs our prayers.
Dear Diana, the abuse charges did not come from one person or Tim Rohr. These charges are coming from all around. Nobody can deny that ugly things happened in the past that the church has to pay for very dearly now.
On the contrary, the sexual abuse charges against Archbishop Apuron started with the Junglewatch Nation. The law lifting the statutes of limitations for sexual abuse also started with the Junglewatch Nation. The rest came as a result of the actions of the Junglewatch Nation.
Dear Diana, I do not think that, to name one, whatever Fr. Bruillard did has anything to do with Jungle Nation or not. It is shameful, shameful and shameful that a pederast, a wicked sexual predator was let loose for so many years on Guam! Whoever is responsible for that I do not care. It is not the question who allowed this. But the crimes were committed, no question about it, following a prevalent corrupted cultural phenomenon. The church has to pay the high price tag.
The person who did the crime should be paying for it, not the Church. If you feel the Church should pay for, then why exempt the government. Father Broulliard was arrested; therefore, the government was aware of the offense, but they did not pursue an extradition after Archbishop Flores moved him off-island.
Father Broulliard was arrested for child abuse, but before he could be prosecuted, Archbishop Flores moved him to the US. The law says that institution who knew and covered up the sex abuse can be sued. Father Broulliard was also part of the Boy Scouts of America. The alleged victims are suing both the Archdiocese and the Boy Scouts of America. So why not the government of Guam or the the Police Department?
Isn't there already a law? The law that lifted the statutes of limitations says that institutions can be sued. The government of Guam is an institution just like the Archdiocese and the Boy Scouts of America....unless the government is exempt from the law. If they are exempt from the law, then the law is unjust and unconstitutional.
May I ask for New Year resolution that Anonymous comments are eliminated? Who is actually "Anonymous"? A person or not? So please, choose a name for yourself or use your own, but do not stay Anonymous!
I post using anonymous because of people like Tim Rohr and the JW thrill/joy to slander and demonize people. I used to post in the JW because I felt that Tim was honestly seeking the truth... now that he has taken down his anonymous-post capabilities, I know that all he cares is about HIS way and to demonize anyone that contradicts him or that doesn't think like him.
Why anonymous? ask Bishop Apuron and what JW has managed to do to a poor innocent person.
Is it fear then? I call it prudence... either way, to say the truth, the messenger is not important (i.e. could be a criminal or a saint)... the truth is the truth.
You can still post anonymously by choosing a fake name other than "anonymous". "Jokers Wild" and "God is one" are fake names. Having a username makes it easier to distinguish who wrote what.
It is prudence. The Early Christians hid in the catacombs and remained anonymous when they were being persecuted. The Christians of Japan did the same thing under persecution. No one wants to risk their jobs or their families even under a white persecution.
Just like to make a comment on your "Happy New Year" heading showing a celebrant with not only one drink in his hands, but two! Perhaps he should have gone to Bingo instead!
Joanne is not Tim. Tim Rohr would never say he attends Mass because of his love and devotion to Mother Mary. Tim is knowledgeable enough in the Catholic faith to understand that a Catholic should attend Mass because of their love and devotion to God. Sadly, however, many Catholics attend Mass simply out of obligation.
Diana, you say I should not attend Catholic mass based on my love and devotion to Mother Mary. Oh, really? Why?! I am a Catholic. The Patron Saint of Guam is Our Lady of Camarin. Did you know?
How about Fatima? How about Lourdes? How about Medjugorje? How about Gaudalupe? How about Santa Marian Kamalen? Our Lady appeared many places around the globe healing and giving us her infinite burning love of the best mother free.
Are you despising my love and devotion to the Holy Virgin? Why? Are you condemning me because I am in the true Spirit of my Catholic faith? How come? Are you a Catholic?
I am a Catholic who worship God, not Mary. I say the rosary at night. I go to Mass for God. Sunday is the Lord's Day, not Mary's Day. You attend the Lord's Day out of Love and devotion to Mother Mary, but where is Christ in all this? You speak of the Fatima, Lourdes, Santa Marian Kamalen, but where is Christ in all this? Mother Mary always pointed to her son. She never pointed to herself.
"Sadly, however, many Catholics attend Mass simply out of obligation"
Well, perhaps this was true some years/decades ago, but not so much these days, in my opinion. So, in the spirit of good dialogue, I would ask you, Diana, to please PROVE IT.
Otherwise, that comment is just a sort of convenient, self-referential justification of your own prejudices.
Also, if love for Our Lady gives someone cause to go to Mass, why would you criticize that? While we all know that Our Lady is not God, nor Christ, we also know that she has been given a special role in the Church and devotion to her is always good and fruitful. If you can't see Christ in Our Lady, you are not looking properly.
If many of the parishioners were really there for God as you say, then why are a majority of them sitting toward the back instead of the front pews? Why are some of them leaving the Church early before the final blessings? Why are many of them coming to Church late to catch the Gospel reading rather than coming on time to listen to the entire readings?
This is why the NCW evangelizes. Catholics need to understand that God comes first in all things. It is bad enough that Protestants are calling us "idol worshipers" because some of us put Mother Mary above God. Love and devotion of God should always be the first. In the Old Testament, the First commandment says to love God. Christ also said that the first commandment is to love God with all your heart, mind, and strength.
"If many of the parishioners were really there for God as you say, then why are a majority of them sitting toward the back instead of the front pews? "
There are many possible explanations for this. Humility, perhaps?
"Why are some of them leaving the Church early before the final blessings?"
Misunderstanding of the importance and action of the Mass, perhaps - ie the reduction of the Mass to a convivial celebration around a table rather than the true propitiatory sacrifice of Christ on the altar?
"Why are many of them coming to Church late to catch the Gospel reading rather than coming on time to listen to the entire readings? "
As above coupled with poor liturgical/theological formation due to unqualified, doctrinally suspect and liberal/revolutionary priests?
"some of us put Mother Mary above God"
Who exactly does this. You need to give examples - website, some quotations, a news report, statistics - something. Otherwise this sort of statement is as bad as the protestants ignorant criticisms of the Catholic Church.
I tried to tell Diana that before, but she told me I was making excuses for these people and that I should be the one to provide evidence to support my claim. Since you agree with me. I'll be your evidence as a person who sits in the back:
I sit where I sit in the back because I end up unintentionally distracting others. So out of respect for them, I sit where I sit. Although honestly, it's not much of a difference since I also struggle with a bad habit that sometimes becomes a distraction to me at mass. Would I like to sit up in the front with my family because they like sitting in the front? Yep. But I don't.
However, honestly, regardless of where I sit, I listen to the word of God. I go to learn how to put those words into action and evaluate whether or not I'm currently doing that in my life. And I go to spend time with Jesus, whether it's time well spent or not, I go and do my best to contemplate/meditate about Him or give thanks to Him or ask Him to help me become closer to Him. I admit I don't know everything there is to know about Jesus, Mary, the church, our history as Catholics, and the mass, but I do what I can on my own to learn those things. Whether what I've learned is the truth or not, I honestly don't know, but if sounds a lot like what the priest or Pope says in his homilies/speeches, matches the conclusion of the writings/words of a saint, or is shown to me in the actions of other christians, then I think I can come to the conclusion that it's not wrong to believe or at least have some confidence that it's true.
So does this make my attendance at Sunday mass useless in your eyes Diana? Is your worship or love for God better than mine because of what you do in the NCW or because you are in the NCW? I know I don't have a close knit community like those of you in the NCW, but I have a family and I try my best to raise my mind to God during the day and in the evenings. Maybe what I'm doing isn't enough. Maybe what I'm doing is an excuse to not do more for God and the church. All I know is that this is where I am now, that I am moving forward the best that I can, and that this is the love I am capable of giving now. The more I learn about God, Jesus, and my relationship with others through what I hear at mass, experience in my life, and contemplate/meditate about when it comes to what Jesus would do, the more I can learn how to give more.
Am I any less than you or my brothers and sisters who attend mass only on Sundays? Is my reason for attending and sitting in the back worthless in your eyes? It honestly seems so because of the way you have described backseat, gas station catholics you don't even know. Although honestly, I don't even care what you think about me. I just wanted there to be a perspective from a backseat passenger to reference the next time you walk into a church.
Dear Joanne, your love and devotion to the Virgin Mary should not be despised. Marian apparitions are an essential part of church history that should not be ignored by any Catholic! Pope St. John-Paul 2 called the Virgin Mother Co-Redemptrix! That means she is a Savior on the side of her Divine Son Jesus.
Marian devotion in its diverse forms expresses the most beautiful Christian trait, the anticipation of the Mother Church, as Bride, for her unification with the Bridegroom who is Jesus our Savior. You are right that between Catholics and Protestant Christians our devotion to the Queen of Heaven is what makes a huge difference.
The Mother of God is not above God. We revere her as the mother of Jesus Christ.
We often forget about our reverence for the Virgin Mother and replace it with something else. Abraham had a miracle from God and he got a son. Mary also had a miracle of God and gave birth to a Divine Son. What a difference...! This is the reason of our love and devotion to the Virgin Mother.
When exactly did you tell me that??? There are too many people who sit toward the back of the church, and the interesting thing about it is that you brought up your habit of distraction.
The reason why I sit in the front was because there were too many distractions in the back. And I am certain you know what distractions I am referring to since you already admit that you cause distraction to yourself and to others. I sit in the front because many people in the back cause too much distraction. Rather than listening to priest, they whisper to their neighbors, text on their phone, and even read the Unatuna.....all these distractions during Mass.
You stated: "I admit I don't know everything there is to know about Jesus, Mary, the church, our history as Catholics, and the mass, but I do what I can on my own to learn those things."
Maybe if you sit in the front where you could see the crucifix better, you would not be doing anything to distract yourself or anyone. Knowing that the priest can see you better at the front will keep you from distracting yourself from your cell phone or from distracting your neighbor.
Thank you, Zoltan. It is good to hear that you are employed and you forgave Frenchie. This is so classic! Nothing happened to you but the anonymous commenters are still hiding. Is this not cowardice? Saint Philomena was martyred for her sexual purity and subborn faithfulness to Jesus. Still, she never hid or denied her name.
I agree with you on Mother Mary, the Queen of Heaven as you say. She is the Sun in the book of Revelation wearing upon her head a crown of twelve stars. I could attend any Sunday service in any of the Christian churches. But it is only the Catholic Church where I can live up my life and devotion to the Mother of God.
Happy New Year, Diana. Let's hope this year will be a good year.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget to pray for Apuron. May the Lord continue to bless him on his sanctification trials.
ReplyDelete... and how can we forget poor Tim Rohr... I hear he is going through very difficult times.
What about Tim Rohr putting a bishop through difficult times and still he continues and not only the bishop The NCW
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:23 am,
DeleteTim Rohr is already paying very dearly for what he has done, and the NCW did not have to do anything. There are consequences to a person's actions. Tim's actions had consequences, and it cost him his marriage and family. Can he now say that the 8 million pageview was worth it? Nevertheless, Tim still needs our prayers.
Dear Diana, the abuse charges did not come from one person or Tim Rohr. These charges are coming from all around. Nobody can deny that ugly things happened in the past that the church has to pay for very dearly now.
DeleteDear Joanne,
DeleteOn the contrary, the sexual abuse charges against Archbishop Apuron started with the Junglewatch Nation. The law lifting the statutes of limitations for sexual abuse also started with the Junglewatch Nation. The rest came as a result of the actions of the Junglewatch Nation.
Dear Diana, I do not think that, to name one, whatever Fr. Bruillard did has anything to do with Jungle Nation or not. It is shameful, shameful and shameful that a pederast, a wicked sexual predator was let loose for so many years on Guam! Whoever is responsible for that I do not care. It is not the question who allowed this. But the crimes were committed, no question about it, following a prevalent corrupted cultural phenomenon. The church has to pay the high price tag.
DeleteDear Joanne,
DeleteThe person who did the crime should be paying for it, not the Church. If you feel the Church should pay for, then why exempt the government. Father Broulliard was arrested; therefore, the government was aware of the offense, but they did not pursue an extradition after Archbishop Flores moved him off-island.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteDear Zoltan,
DeleteFather Broulliard was arrested for child abuse, but before he could be prosecuted, Archbishop Flores moved him to the US. The law says that institution who knew and covered up the sex abuse can be sued. Father Broulliard was also part of the Boy Scouts of America. The alleged victims are suing both the Archdiocese and the Boy Scouts of America. So why not the government of Guam or the the Police Department?
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteDear Zoltan,
DeleteIsn't there already a law? The law that lifted the statutes of limitations says that institutions can be sued. The government of Guam is an institution just like the Archdiocese and the Boy Scouts of America....unless the government is exempt from the law. If they are exempt from the law, then the law is unjust and unconstitutional.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteDear Zoltan,
DeleteThat question should be posed to the alleged victims of Father Brouillard.
May I ask for New Year resolution that Anonymous comments are eliminated? Who is actually "Anonymous"? A person or not? So please, choose a name for yourself or use your own, but do not stay Anonymous!
ReplyDeleteI post using anonymous because of people like Tim Rohr and the JW thrill/joy to slander and demonize people. I used to post in the JW because I felt that Tim was honestly seeking the truth... now that he has taken down his anonymous-post capabilities, I know that all he cares is about HIS way and to demonize anyone that contradicts him or that doesn't think like him.
DeleteWhy anonymous? ask Bishop Apuron and what JW has managed to do to a poor innocent person.
Is it fear then? I call it prudence... either way, to say the truth, the messenger is not important (i.e. could be a criminal or a saint)... the truth is the truth.
Dear Anonymous at 1:46 pm,
DeleteYou can still post anonymously by choosing a fake name other than "anonymous". "Jokers Wild" and "God is one" are fake names. Having a username makes it easier to distinguish who wrote what.
"Is it fear then? I call it prudence..."
DeleteNo, it is sheer cowardice! Our Good Lord has never hid his face from the spits and from people who plucked his beard.
Dear Joanne,
DeleteIt is prudence. The Early Christians hid in the catacombs and remained anonymous when they were being persecuted. The Christians of Japan did the same thing under persecution. No one wants to risk their jobs or their families even under a white persecution.
Just like to make a comment on your "Happy New Year" heading showing a celebrant with not only one drink in his hands, but two! Perhaps he should have gone to Bingo instead!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 2:19 pm,
DeleteThe second drink was iced tea. 🙄
Dear Joanne,
ReplyDeleteIf I knew how, I would - I'm not good with the computer! Anonymous is easy.
Dear Anonymous at 2:23 pm,
DeleteYou can always type a fake name after you typed your comment. Jokers Wild does the same thing.
Joanne is that you Tim ?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 4:41 pm,
DeleteJoanne is not Tim. Tim Rohr would never say he attends Mass because of his love and devotion to Mother Mary. Tim is knowledgeable enough in the Catholic faith to understand that a Catholic should attend Mass because of their love and devotion to God. Sadly, however, many Catholics attend Mass simply out of obligation.
Diana, you say I should not attend Catholic mass based on my love and devotion to Mother Mary. Oh, really? Why?! I am a Catholic. The Patron Saint of Guam is Our Lady of Camarin. Did you know?
DeleteHow about Fatima? How about Lourdes? How about Medjugorje? How about Gaudalupe? How about Santa Marian Kamalen? Our Lady appeared many places around the globe healing and giving us her infinite burning love of the best mother free.
Are you despising my love and devotion to the Holy Virgin? Why? Are you condemning me because I am in the true Spirit of my Catholic faith? How come? Are you a Catholic?
Dear Joanne,
DeleteI am a Catholic who worship God, not Mary. I say the rosary at night. I go to Mass for God. Sunday is the Lord's Day, not Mary's Day. You attend the Lord's Day out of Love and devotion to Mother Mary, but where is Christ in all this? You speak of the Fatima, Lourdes, Santa Marian Kamalen, but where is Christ in all this? Mother Mary always pointed to her son. She never pointed to herself.
"Sadly, however, many Catholics attend Mass simply out of obligation"
DeleteWell, perhaps this was true some years/decades ago, but not so much these days, in my opinion. So, in the spirit of good dialogue, I would ask you, Diana, to please PROVE IT.
Otherwise, that comment is just a sort of convenient, self-referential justification of your own prejudices.
Also, if love for Our Lady gives someone cause to go to Mass, why would you criticize that? While we all know that Our Lady is not God, nor Christ, we also know that she has been given a special role in the Church and devotion to her is always good and fruitful. If you can't see Christ in Our Lady, you are not looking properly.
Dear Dianaismyrealname,
DeleteIf many of the parishioners were really there for God as you say, then why are a majority of them sitting toward the back instead of the front pews? Why are some of them leaving the Church early before the final blessings? Why are many of them coming to Church late to catch the Gospel reading rather than coming on time to listen to the entire readings?
This is why the NCW evangelizes. Catholics need to understand that God comes first in all things. It is bad enough that Protestants are calling us "idol worshipers" because some of us put Mother Mary above God. Love and devotion of God should always be the first. In the Old Testament, the First commandment says to love God. Christ also said that the first commandment is to love God with all your heart, mind, and strength.
"If many of the parishioners were really there for God as you say, then why are a majority of them sitting toward the back instead of the front pews? "
DeleteThere are many possible explanations for this. Humility, perhaps?
"Why are some of them leaving the Church early before the final blessings?"
Misunderstanding of the importance and action of the Mass, perhaps - ie the reduction of the Mass to a convivial celebration around a table rather than the true propitiatory sacrifice of Christ on the altar?
"Why are many of them coming to Church late to catch the Gospel reading rather than coming on time to listen to the entire readings? "
As above coupled with poor liturgical/theological formation due to unqualified, doctrinally suspect and liberal/revolutionary priests?
"some of us put Mother Mary above God"
Who exactly does this. You need to give examples - website, some quotations, a news report, statistics - something. Otherwise this sort of statement is as bad as the protestants ignorant criticisms of the Catholic Church.
Dianaismyrealname,
DeleteI tried to tell Diana that before, but she told me I was making excuses for these people and that I should be the one to provide evidence to support my claim. Since you agree with me. I'll be your evidence as a person who sits in the back:
I sit where I sit in the back because I end up unintentionally distracting others. So out of respect for them, I sit where I sit. Although honestly, it's not much of a difference since I also struggle with a bad habit that sometimes becomes a distraction to me at mass. Would I like to sit up in the front with my family because they like sitting in the front? Yep. But I don't.
However, honestly, regardless of where I sit, I listen to the word of God. I go to learn how to put those words into action and evaluate whether or not I'm currently doing that in my life. And I go to spend time with Jesus, whether it's time well spent or not, I go and do my best to contemplate/meditate about Him or give thanks to Him or ask Him to help me become closer to Him. I admit I don't know everything there is to know about Jesus, Mary, the church, our history as Catholics, and the mass, but I do what I can on my own to learn those things. Whether what I've learned is the truth or not, I honestly don't know, but if sounds a lot like what the priest or Pope says in his homilies/speeches, matches the conclusion of the writings/words of a saint, or is shown to me in the actions of other christians, then I think I can come to the conclusion that it's not wrong to believe or at least have some confidence that it's true.
So does this make my attendance at Sunday mass useless in your eyes Diana? Is your worship or love for God better than mine because of what you do in the NCW or because you are in the NCW? I know I don't have a close knit community like those of you in the NCW, but I have a family and I try my best to raise my mind to God during the day and in the evenings. Maybe what I'm doing isn't enough. Maybe what I'm doing is an excuse to not do more for God and the church. All I know is that this is where I am now, that I am moving forward the best that I can, and that this is the love I am capable of giving now. The more I learn about God, Jesus, and my relationship with others through what I hear at mass, experience in my life, and contemplate/meditate about when it comes to what Jesus would do, the more I can learn how to give more.
Am I any less than you or my brothers and sisters who attend mass only on Sundays? Is my reason for attending and sitting in the back worthless in your eyes? It honestly seems so because of the way you have described backseat, gas station catholics you don't even know. Although honestly, I don't even care what you think about me. I just wanted there to be a perspective from a backseat passenger to reference the next time you walk into a church.
Dear Joanne, your love and devotion to the Virgin Mary should not be despised. Marian apparitions are an essential part of church history that should not be ignored by any Catholic! Pope St. John-Paul 2 called the Virgin Mother Co-Redemptrix! That means she is a Savior on the side of her Divine Son Jesus.
DeleteMarian devotion in its diverse forms expresses the most beautiful Christian trait, the anticipation of the Mother Church, as Bride, for her unification with the Bridegroom who is Jesus our Savior. You are right that between Catholics and Protestant Christians our devotion to the Queen of Heaven is what makes a huge difference.
The Mother of God is not above God. We revere her as the mother of Jesus Christ.
We often forget about our reverence for the Virgin Mother and replace it with something else. Abraham had a miracle from God and he got a son. Mary also had a miracle of God and gave birth to a Divine Son. What a difference...! This is the reason of our love and devotion to the Virgin Mother.
Dear Backseat passenger,
DeleteWhen exactly did you tell me that??? There are too many people who sit toward the back of the church, and the interesting thing about it is that you brought up your habit of distraction.
The reason why I sit in the front was because there were too many distractions in the back. And I am certain you know what distractions I am referring to since you already admit that you cause distraction to yourself and to others. I sit in the front because many people in the back cause too much distraction. Rather than listening to priest, they whisper to their neighbors, text on their phone, and even read the Unatuna.....all these distractions during Mass.
You stated: "I admit I don't know everything there is to know about Jesus, Mary, the church, our history as Catholics, and the mass, but I do what I can on my own to learn those things."
Maybe if you sit in the front where you could see the crucifix better, you would not be doing anything to distract yourself or anyone. Knowing that the priest can see you better at the front will keep you from distracting yourself from your cell phone or from distracting your neighbor.
Thank you, Zoltan. It is good to hear that you are employed and you forgave Frenchie. This is so classic! Nothing happened to you but the anonymous commenters are still hiding. Is this not cowardice? Saint Philomena was martyred for her sexual purity and subborn faithfulness to Jesus. Still, she never hid or denied her name.
DeleteI agree with you on Mother Mary, the Queen of Heaven as you say. She is the Sun in the book of Revelation wearing upon her head a crown of twelve stars. I could attend any Sunday service in any of the Christian churches. But it is only the Catholic Church where I can live up my life and devotion to the Mother of God.