Seminarians should study fundamental church documents! The Crux Now lists the requirements for ecclesial groups to follow the instruction of Rome:
"Eight criteria given for the Church’s Magisterium to discern charisms.
The sixth criterion is, “Acceptance of moments of trial in the discernment of charisms,” meaning charisms need, “Humility in bearing with adversities.” Seventh, “Presence of spiritual fruits such as charity, joy, peace and a certain human maturity.” And finally, “The social dimension of evangelization,” because, “At the very heart of the Gospel is life in community and engagement with others.” "
Also: "The social dimension of evangelization. It is also necessary to recognize that, as a result of the impulse of charity, “the kerygma has a clear social content: at the very heart of the Gospel is life in community and engagement with others” In this regard the “desire to be present as Christians in various settings of social life ... are significant.Reference to the Social Doctrine of the Church is also a decisive factor. In particular, “Our faith in Christ, who became poor, and was always close to the poor and the outcast, is the basis of our concern for the integral development of society’s most neglected members”.This cannot be lacking in authentic ecclesial entity."
I would like to hear more about why you do not think the spirituality of this movement is not Catholic since Catholic covers really a lot of spiritual territory. Please say more.
I looked up as many Catholic universities' faculties as I could. In none of them could I find a position called "teacher of Spiritual Doctrine". Could you please elaborate what kind of teacher you are and in what sort of institution you teach?
Pope Francis sees both the good and the bad in the NCW. The good is that you attract people. the bad is that the control is wrestled out of the hands of the Pope. You might not realize that or see it as a problem, but there are a lot of clues that have been given by both Pope Benedict and Pope Francis throughout the years.
"Precisely to encourage people who have drifted away from the Church or have not received an appropriate formation to draw close to the riches of sacrament life, the Neocatechumens may celebrate the Sunday Eucharist in the small community, (...) in this process it is also important not to be separate from the parish community, precisely in the celebration of the Eucharist which is the true place of the unity of all, where the Lord embraces us in the different states of our spiritual maturity and unites us in the one bread that makes us one body (cf. 1 Cor 10:16f.)." (Pope Benedict)
"Communion is essential sometimes it can be better to renounce living in all the details that your itinerary demands, in order to ensure the unity among those who form one ecclesial community, of which you must always feel that you are part." (Pope Francis)
During Pope Benedict XVI's time, an investigation was launch against the NCW because of allegations of liturgical abuse. It was Pope Francis who dismissed those allegations by ceasing all investigations into the NCW.
We have always been obedient to the Bishop. The NCW was obedient to Archbishop Apuron. Now, the NCW is obedient to Archbishop Byrnes.
Seems like the same people spewing the same lies yet again. I've never met a group more obedient in the parish then the NCW. They are obedient even when it goes against their self interest. The Popes also said they admire the NCW for its refreshing authenticity and its call to authenticity and rekindling in others.
Anon April 26 at 5:59 am - Thank you for saying that. I'm in the NCW on Guam and like you said I have obedient. But it has not been easy, many times I want to strike back and defend the NCW against all the lies that's been said. I want to strike back and defend my community against these lies. But I don't, because I know that God turns everything into good, God turns even evil into good.
So I don't do anything against these critics of the NCW, I wish that they could see how much good NCW has been for the enrichment and deepening of my Catholic faith and my faith in the Catholic Church. If they could see that NCW has made me and many others better catholics, these other catholics would not be saying these lies.
No doubt there is some good to the NCW, as is the case with most situations. But you refer to "these lies", without describing what they are. Can you be more specific?
Is it a lie that the NCW have a different communion practice to the rest of the Roman Rite church? Is it a lie that there is no permission given for these differences? Is it a lie when you are told there is a specific permission? Is it a lie that the books of the Roman Rite prohibit flowers being put on the surface of the altar? Is it a lie that the NCW do it anyway? Is it a lie that the catechetical texts are kept secret, even though the Church *never* keeps its teaching secret? Or that some of the teachings in these books are incompatible with the enduring teaching of the Fathers? Is it a lie that priests in the NCW are moved around at the whims of the catechists and the founders Is it a lie that families and parishes are divided by the activities and expectations of the NCW?
In the past the NCW were able to get away with so much because they were better hidden and the individuals who were abused, hurt and rejected were on their own. Now, with the internet and the sharing of information, these facts about the NCW are being made known, and the consequences are visible on Guam.
You may not like that fact that the bubble is bursting, but that doesn't mean that it is "lies".
Yes, those are all lies. As I pointed out many times, the NCW never kept its Eucharistic celebration or the catechesis a secret. It was the NCW who published photos and videos of the celebrations on the internet. And it was the NCW who announced the catechesis in a public place. If the NCW had something to hide, they would not have made all this information public themselves. Did you honestly think that it was the opposition (who had NEVER attended the celebrations and catechesis) who made it public?
I saw one of our own seminarians from Guam biba James arriola
ReplyDeleteSeminarians should study fundamental church documents! The Crux Now lists the requirements for ecclesial groups to follow the instruction of Rome:
Delete"Eight criteria given for the Church’s Magisterium to discern charisms.
The sixth criterion is, “Acceptance of moments of trial in the discernment of charisms,” meaning charisms need, “Humility in bearing with adversities.” Seventh, “Presence of spiritual fruits such as charity, joy, peace and a certain human maturity.” And finally, “The social dimension of evangelization,” because, “At the very heart of the Gospel is life in community and engagement with others.” "
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2016/06/14/overview-iuvenescit-ecclesia-bishops-movements/
Also: "The social dimension of evangelization. It is also necessary to recognize that, as a result of the impulse of charity, “the kerygma has a clear social content: at the very heart of the Gospel is life in community and engagement with others” In this regard the “desire to be present as Christians in various settings of social life ... are significant.Reference to the Social Doctrine of the Church is also a decisive factor. In particular, “Our faith in Christ, who became poor, and was always close to the poor and the outcast, is the basis of our concern for the integral development of society’s most neglected members”.This cannot be lacking in authentic ecclesial entity."
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20160516_iuvenescit-ecclesia_en.html
I am a teacher of Spiritual Doctrine.
ReplyDeleteThe Spirituality of this movement is NOT Catholic. Period.
Dear Anonymous at 10:41 pm,
DeleteThe proclamation of Pope Francis matters more than your opinion as a teacher of spiritual doctrine.
Dear Anonymous,
DeleteI would like to hear more about why you do not think the spirituality of this movement is not Catholic since Catholic covers really a lot of spiritual territory. Please say more.
I looked up as many Catholic universities' faculties as I could. In none of them could I find a position called "teacher of Spiritual Doctrine". Could you please elaborate what kind of teacher you are and in what sort of institution you teach?
DeletePope Francis sees both the good and the bad in the NCW. The good is that you attract people. the bad is that the control is wrestled out of the hands of the Pope. You might not realize that or see it as a problem, but there are a lot of clues that have been given by both Pope Benedict and Pope Francis throughout the years.
Delete"Precisely to encourage people who have drifted away from the Church or have not received an appropriate formation to draw close to the riches of sacrament life, the Neocatechumens may celebrate the Sunday Eucharist in the small community, (...) in this process it is also important not to be separate from the parish community, precisely in the celebration of the Eucharist which is the true place of the unity of all, where the Lord embraces us in the different states of our spiritual maturity and unites us in the one bread that makes us one body (cf. 1 Cor 10:16f.)." (Pope Benedict)
http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/speeches/2012/january/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20120120_cammino-neocatecumenale.html
"Communion is essential sometimes it can be better to renounce living in all the details that your itinerary demands, in order to ensure the unity among those who form one ecclesial community, of which you must always feel that you are part." (Pope Francis)
http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-to-neocatechumenal-way-build-ecclesial-commun
Dear Anonymous at 12:03 pm,
DeleteDuring Pope Benedict XVI's time, an investigation was launch against the NCW because of allegations of liturgical abuse. It was Pope Francis who dismissed those allegations by ceasing all investigations into the NCW.
We have always been obedient to the Bishop. The NCW was obedient to Archbishop Apuron. Now, the NCW is obedient to Archbishop Byrnes.
Dr. Santiago is in there too. 🤗
ReplyDeleteSeems like the same people spewing the same lies yet again. I've never met a group more obedient in the parish then the NCW. They are obedient even when it goes against their self interest.
ReplyDeleteThe Popes also said they admire the NCW for its refreshing authenticity and its call to authenticity and rekindling in others.
Anon April 26 at 5:59 am - Thank you for saying that. I'm in the NCW on Guam and like you said I have obedient. But it has not been easy, many times I want to strike back and defend the NCW against all the lies that's been said. I want to strike back and defend my community against these lies. But I don't, because I know that God turns everything into good, God turns even evil into good.
DeleteSo I don't do anything against these critics of the NCW, I wish that they could see how much good NCW has been for the enrichment and deepening of my Catholic faith and my faith in the Catholic Church. If they could see that NCW has made me and many others better catholics, these other catholics would not be saying these lies.
Dear Anon at 9am.
DeleteNo doubt there is some good to the NCW, as is the case with most situations. But you refer to "these lies", without describing what they are. Can you be more specific?
Is it a lie that the NCW have a different communion practice to the rest of the Roman Rite church?
Is it a lie that there is no permission given for these differences?
Is it a lie when you are told there is a specific permission?
Is it a lie that the books of the Roman Rite prohibit flowers being put on the surface of the altar?
Is it a lie that the NCW do it anyway?
Is it a lie that the catechetical texts are kept secret, even though the Church *never* keeps its teaching secret? Or that some of the teachings in these books are incompatible with the enduring teaching of the Fathers?
Is it a lie that priests in the NCW are moved around at the whims of the catechists and the founders
Is it a lie that families and parishes are divided by the activities and expectations of the NCW?
In the past the NCW were able to get away with so much because they were better hidden and the individuals who were abused, hurt and rejected were on their own. Now, with the internet and the sharing of information, these facts about the NCW are being made known, and the consequences are visible on Guam.
You may not like that fact that the bubble is bursting, but that doesn't mean that it is "lies".
Dear Anonymous at 1:47 pm,
DeleteYes, those are all lies. As I pointed out many times, the NCW never kept its Eucharistic celebration or the catechesis a secret. It was the NCW who published photos and videos of the celebrations on the internet. And it was the NCW who announced the catechesis in a public place. If the NCW had something to hide, they would not have made all this information public themselves. Did you honestly think that it was the opposition (who had NEVER attended the celebrations and catechesis) who made it public?
Anon at 1:47 - Answer to your questions is YES...ALL LIES.
Delete