I apologize for the delay in publishing your comments. For some reason, a few comments have ended up in my spam box, and I have not checked my spam in a while. It appears that the first half of your comment was in my spam box while the other half went to my inbox. This is about the third time comments that should have gone into my inbox ended up in my spam box. At any rate, I placed all three of your comments together as an entry post:
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Antoine TajalleFebruary 20, 2015 at 1:40 AM
Diana, If I could, please allow me to respond to comments that have been addressed to me over at the junglewatch blog. I only commented on that blog in response to an anonymous commenter who called me out. I refuse to directly comment on that site. You may have to post it as a new entry. I apologize for having to do this here but I am encouraged to do so because I know you will guarantee its publication
1. My whole intent in commenting was to request to meet with the individual who did not have enough courage to identify himself/herself but had the decency to name me. I was really bothered by this because, they connected me to a previous comment whereas the writer used the quote from Padre Pio, PRAY HOPE AND DONT WORRY. This quote is seen as my signature on any email correspondence that I may have. This is where it hurts me, my email activity is very limited, I only correspond with close friends and family.
2. The experiences that I decided to share, were my experiences. As usual the bots have decided to take it into their hands to criticize and analyze my personal experiences.
3. In no way was my intention to "drag" Father Mike Crisostomo into my attempt to meet this individual. I did not want to share with the whole world but to put things to rest let it be known, that as soon as a commenter accused me of dragging Father Mike into this, I requested and did meet with him that same evening to reconcile and be clear of any misunderstanding.
1. My whole intent in commenting was to request to meet with the individual who did not have enough courage to identify himself/herself but had the decency to name me. I was really bothered by this because, they connected me to a previous comment whereas the writer used the quote from Padre Pio, PRAY HOPE AND DONT WORRY. This quote is seen as my signature on any email correspondence that I may have. This is where it hurts me, my email activity is very limited, I only correspond with close friends and family.
2. The experiences that I decided to share, were my experiences. As usual the bots have decided to take it into their hands to criticize and analyze my personal experiences.
3. In no way was my intention to "drag" Father Mike Crisostomo into my attempt to meet this individual. I did not want to share with the whole world but to put things to rest let it be known, that as soon as a commenter accused me of dragging Father Mike into this, I requested and did meet with him that same evening to reconcile and be clear of any misunderstanding.
4. In the same instance that I was accused of inappropriately dragging someone else into this, another commenter decided to drag my dear grandmother into this. Despite the commenter remaining anonymous I am very aware of who this is. This person was walking in CP and is very unstable, I will excuse and forgive them for this, because just as close as I am to my grandmother, he is also.
AnonymousFebruary 18, 2015 at 12:07 AM
Antoine, this is the second instance that I have witnessed your bringing up father mike's name in a conversation about neo vs nonneo. Sure, you prefaced it with "I have a lot of respect for father mike" etc etc but you end that thought with the same divisive tone that permeates the entirety of your comment. What's your beef with him? Don't answer that, I'm not looking for an answer. Just disturbing to me that while you get your panties in a bunch about somebody naming you, you do the same thing by dragging father mike's name into this conversation. Lest there be any doubt of the division in our church, you have just provided the final nail. Thanks. And can't wait to hear your answers.
5. In my initial response I shared the experience of gossip, myself being shunned and excluded from certain things. An anonymous commenter from the San Dimas Parish decided to go ahead and share their judgement of myself. To that I would like to explain a few things.
- I was not speaking solely about my parish of San Dimas. If you knew me better you should have known that my ministry goes beyond the parish. I go where I am called. In regards to the Parish, you would have known also that I personally followed Father Mike to Toto, I left the parish for some time, but Father Mike instilled something in me that I never forgot. San Dimas is my Parish and will always be, even when a priest is transferred I should stay and support the new pastor and continue to minister.
-If you knew what and how things are happening in the Parish you would also know that I am not a Fuel Pump Catholic. I do not go to Mass, leave and come back when my tank is empty. This is fine for some but not for me. If you see me speeding away into the office during the blessing of the food, opening of the table, did it ever dawn on you, who was actually planning these events? Im not sharing this to boast but let me tell you, there is nothing more on my mind than that of the parish. If you think I was being paid for my endless hours in the office, think again, it was all voluntary. How long have I been directing the choir? Since ever since. Almost every Pre-Con and Confirmation retreat for the past 15 years, was organized by me and with the help of others from around the island. Who was organizing the Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament with the Youth during Father Wolcheks term? Who took the lead when the parish co-hosted the Archdiocesan World Youth Day? Whos idea was it to have a Parish Picnic? Who helps Father Luis plan the pilgrimages? Who took the lead in the week long summer camp last year? Who designs and publishes all the posters and holiday cards for the seasons? Who reminds the different liturgists of things that need to happen? Who cleans the office? Who is still pushing for the bathrooms to have a waterless tank system because our water bill is too high? Who is constantly thinking of ways that we can possibly raise funds for our mortgage loan? Who is concerned about the water coming up through the church floor? Who is pointing out that we do not have any designated Disabled Parking? Who organized the fundraiser Dinner this past December that put us ahead in our financial obligations? Many others also assisted, but if you didnt know, we are very few these days, and we continue to look into ways to get more to begin helping out or to return to the parish.
These are insufficient compared to the graces that I have received from the Lord. In no way have I mentioned these things to boast about them. All I know is that my retirement benefits are out of this world. But Please do not criticize me about running away into the office when its time to eat. Get real! Can a brother have a seat sometime? Have you seen the way I walk? If I could run into the office I would. Dont ever say that I have separated myself from the parish. I cant even find a job because I struggle with the fact that i may not be able to devote as much time to the parish. I wish I could be on Payroll at the Parish office, just to help me out with a minimal amount, but this looks distant for the time being. I accept donations if you are a cheerful giver...your prayers(minus your judgement is sufficient enough).
Lastly, remember, I am the one with the recording of the parish ministers talking about the NCW inside the church and in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. If you have proof of the contrary, please share.
6. There were questions addressed to me in junglewatch and to that I would like to say, I will not answer it. Not because I cant but because past experience speaks for itself in the jungle. They want answers but when we give them the answers they are not satisfied. Its the same in regards to the Archbishop, they want him to explain his actions and when he does, they still have a problem with it. Also, what I did say was when I am approached with questions from close friends and family, I answer. I do not have any friends or family with the name "anonymous". I have the courage to use my name, use yours.
"There were questions addressed to me in junglewatch and to that I would like to say, I will not answer it. Not because I cant"
ReplyDeleteWell, Diana can't and the Archbishop can't and Pius can't. So don't feel bad about admitting it. You can't show what doesn't exist.
Dear Anonymous at 9:53 pm,
DeleteHe did not say that he can't. He said he WON'T.
I know what he said. But I also know he can't show what doesn't exist. Neither can you or Pius or the Acrhbishop. Because if it actually did exist, it would have been produced by now. The best you could manage, Diana, was that it had been "misplaced". What a joke.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 11:57 pm,
DeleteHow do you know for sure that it does not exist?? All the NCW communities worldwide are celebrating exactly the way we are. If the message was passed on orally, there would be a few slight variations, and there isn't any. Also, the fastest way to get a message across is through email. Perhaps, an email was sent, but was either misplaced, deleted, or never printed out as a hard copy.
Then again, whether you believe it or not does not bother me and is not my problem. Of course, if you have a problem with it, you already know what course of action you should take. Simply write to the Nuncio or the Vatican and kindly wait for their response.
See there you go again. You are effectively saying "I don't care what the Church says, because I've been told by the NCW". The reason it IS your problem Diana is that each time you celebrate the Eucharist you are potentially breaking with the guidance, direction and communion of the Church. You ought to be satisfied that there is no way the instruction you have been given could be wrong, because it would be a grave violation of the liturgy of the Church if this permission actually had not been given as you have been told.
DeleteSo, you have all these people telling you that the Church doesn't give verbal permission to vary the Eucharistic liturgy - and this seems to be seeping in a little, because now you are talking about "maybe there's an email somewhere?", and " "perhaps its been misplaced", which are insufficient answers, of course. But you're getting there.
The Archbishop indicated that the permission must be "somewhere" because he knows that permissions of this sort are always formal and recorded in writing. But the Archbishop hasn';t produced it. Why not? Surely if it existed the Archbishop could find it. And considering it is a rather severe embarassment for him, if he found it he would certainly make it known. Antione said he loves to answer questions about the NCW but he "won't" in regard to this important one! Again, his reason why not is just weak.
Its such a shame. I don't know Antoine, but he seems like a nice person. A nice person who is brought to the point of lying, only because of his affiliation with the NCW. And you Diana, obviously have a deep love for God and the Church, but you too are forced into this position of inventing things (concelebration; Maybe there's an email; its been misplaced) and lying "we have permission from Rome", and defending the indefensible, purely because your allegiance to the Neocatechumenal Way is stronger that anything else - even your allegience to the truth, or the lawful authority of the Church.
If we look around the world at the NCW communities wherever they are, we see the same thing everywhere. It is not because a permission exists that you all do the same thing in the Eucharist. You know this. Its because there is a particular hierarchical structure that feeds down information and instructions from the highest levels (Kiko et al) to the individual community and member. The false teaching on "obedience" also plays its part in this.
You are an adult Catholic woman, Diana. You have the right to understand whether or not the things you are being told to do in the name of the Church are legitimate. That is why this so-called permission is important. Because if it is not real - you are being deceived on a massive scale. So, ask for it from your catechist. And if they can't get it for you - then you should become more and more suspicious
"Rome has approved it – even the way we’re receiving Communion. That they receive the host standing and they can sit down and everybody who receives it and they eat together...Rome has given permission for that. And it’s somewhere I need to find out where exactly, but they told us that permission is given."
DeleteDear Diana, there is another very important consideration for you. I urge you to think honestly on this point. Early in 2014 Pope Francis gave the NCW three recommendations, as you know. One of these was pertaining to whether the NCW should give up some of the detail of the itinerary in order to preserve unity.
DeleteAs you know. Kiko wrote to the holy father in April 2014 indicating that he believed that some pastors and bishops had misunderstood the pope's words and had effectively prevented the NCW from celebrating its Eucharists as it had done previously.
Archbishop Becciu responded to this concern in a letter to Kiko. And here's the important point. In that letter Archbishop Becciu stated:
"as far as it pertains to the celebrations of the Paschal Vigil and the Sunday Eucharist, mentioned by you, articles 12 and 13, read in their entirety, constitute therefore the regulatory charter of reference."
Now, this statement shold absolutely convince you that there is no other verbal (or other form of ) permission for the actions taken by the NCW in relation to the liturgy. We did not hear Kiko, after having received this letter, and in his interview with Zenit, say anything about some further (verbal or email) permissions. This should put to an end your insistance that there exists other forms of permission. And it should open your eyes to what has been done to you and others - namely, a great deception, at least facilitated if not perpetrated, by Pius and the NCW leadership.
Ask you catechist about that question Diana - why did the pope only point to the Statutes if there was some other permission. Is the pope lying? And why did Kiko not then remind you and us about this other permission, if it actually existed. Ask you catechist and I guarantee you will see a look of bewilderment on their face.
Dear Anonymous at 10:49 am,
DeleteYou stated: "You are effectively saying "I don't care what the Church says, because I've been told by the NCW".
The NCW is PART of the Catholic Church. So, when Father Pius (who was ordained in the Catholic Church) says that these new instructions came from Kiko who in turn got the same instructions from the Pope.......then why should we not follow it. We are obedient to the Archbishop (who is the hierarchy of the Catholic Church).
The only ones telling us that the Catholic Church does not give any verbal instructions are those who oppose the Archbishop. We know for a fact that the Catholic Church started out with ORAL tradition rather than the written word (Holy Bible). The Bible did not exist until the end of the fourth century. Before the written word, the teachings and instructions were passed down orally. So, when the Pope gives an oral instruction, we are not going to wait until someone hands him a pen and paper to write it down.
If the NCW is doing the wrong thing, God will correct us because it is God who guides His Church through the Pope and Bishops. We place our trust in the Pope and the Archbishop because that is the true teaching of the Catholic Church. God guides His Church to where He wants her to go despite the fact that the Pope or Bishops are sinful men. After all, Christ also told His disciples to listen and obey the hypocritical Pharisees, not because they were hypocrites, but because they sat in the Chair of Moses.
Matthew 23:2-3 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
God did correct you Diana. Through the letter sent on behalf of the Pope to Kiko wherein it states that the regulatory framework for the NCW Eucharist is contained in the Statutes. There is no room for other regulatory frameworks - and if you ignore that, you disobey the Pope.
Delete"We know for a fact that the Catholic Church started out with ORAL tradition rather than the written word (Holy Bible). The Bible did not exist until the end of the fourth century. Before the written word, the teachings and instructions were passed down orally. So, when the Pope gives an oral instruction, we are not going to wait until someone hands him a pen and paper to write it down."
DeleteI can't work out whether to regard this as serious or not. Are you seriously proposing this as a defense for your illicit liturgical activity? I hope you are just being flippant. But just in case, let me categorically correct your misunderstanding. Oral tradition has nothing to do with so-called verbal permissions for liturgical variations:
"In this discussion it is important to keep in mind what the Catholic Church means by tradition. The term does not refer to legends or mythological accounts, nor does it encompass transitory customs or practices which may change, as circumstances warrant, such as styles of priestly dress, particular forms of devotion to saints, or even liturgical rubrics. "
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/scripture-and-tradition
Read the last line again: "or even liturgical rubrics". So let that be the last time you run that ridiculous line, Diana.
The pope, through the letter from Archbishop Becciu has already told you that the regulations on the variations in the NCW Eucharist are given in the Statutes. So, unless you can find them in the Statutes, they don't exist. And if you persist with them, you do so in disobedience to the Pope. Actually, you will be implicitly calling the pope a liar.
DeleteAnon 9:53:
ReplyDeletePlease! enough with the ignorance. He WON'T do it, and guess what? He doesn't have to.
Anon 8:19am...and guess what? Not that we cant, but we won't ...so coffer out the mula, bula, and give, give,give
DeleteThe effort of the Concerned Catholics (what a misnomer! Concerned?!) to derail the efforts of the Church to collect money for her ministry is truly a shame. Shame on you. They may succeed and some will give less money but the results of their actions will be to damage the Church, which they claim they are concerned about.
DeleteDeanna. Concerned you unable to understand basic fundamentals of catholic faith.
ReplyDeleteThis blog is endangering the Faith of Guam Catholics and answers to faith questions expressed by you grave error to the island church. Your name has been reported to Rome for writing against the precepts of the faith. Expect a letter from the CDF cardinal muller. He has been notified about you.
Dear Anonymous at 11:52 pm,
DeleteIt does not bother me that my name was reported to the Vatican. The mission was already accomplished in Manila. You can do whatever you want. In fact, go ahead and write a letter to Rome and tell them that the NCW stands to receive the Body of Christ but sits down to consume His Body. I am sure they hear that all the time.
Antoine is right. Archbishop tackled two endemic problem of our Church here in Guam. Squarely and strongly.
DeleteOne was the shortage of priests – this was so serious that we had to constantly import priests from abroad. This was the problem with these priests – they were imported, they did their service here and then they left once their contract was over. This is like renting a house. If you own it, it is yours; if you rent a house, it is never yours. The Archbishop worked hard and made many sacrifices so that the Church here in Guam ‘owned’ her priests. The dire situation of shortage of priests in nearby Saipan is a clear indication of what would have happened to Guam if action was not taken, especially now that immigration rules have been made even more strict.
The other was the limits of adult education in faith in our islanders. He encouraged the Neocatechumenal Way because he saw an answer to this widespread problem. The apologists like Tim Rohr and Chuck White tried in their time to do something about this issue. But they reached a very limited number of people. Yet, they should continue their work and not waste their energies on attacking Archbishop. Many people welcomed the Neocatechumenal Way. It is helping many many many people. Why some people undermine it is a mystery to many.
Archbishop tackled these two endemic problems of our Church here in Guam. The angels in heaven rejoiced. The demons in hell trembled.
@ 9:51...I would be impressed if AAA didn't lie, cheat and steal to do what you say he did. You need to address the facts before you give praise.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:42 am,
DeleteHe gave the facts. We not only have enough priests on Guam, but even enough to send them on missions to evangelize.
How about the living, cheating, and stealing? Ignore, ignore, ignore...that's all you do.
DeleteOh the mission of excommunication? I would love to see that happen soon!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 9:14 pm,
DeleteWho said it was about excommunication? :-)
ReplyDeleteGuam never had a dire need for priests. Anthony only needed to have built up local vocations over the years. It is not the number of priests but quality. Guam could well function with 30 priests dedicated hard working.
Saipan is different it suffers from a deep poverty of spirit . Island needs native sons to serve as priests. They are coming but were slow. One of the reasons why there is no candidate for the second bishop of Saipan. It was hoped Fr.Roger Tenorio would be the second bishop.
Dear Anonymous at 8:07 am,
DeleteGuam had a dire need for priests in the past. Guam had asked for priests mainly from the Philippines because we were lacking priests.
ReplyDeleteDiana is unable to comprehend the history of catholocism iin our island nation.
Once more in the days when we were loaned priests from the Philippines there was no problem with this system. Guam welcomed fine priests from the Philippines over the years. Friendships between Guam and Philippines established. At the same time we built local vocations. Our system worked.
Dear Anonymous at 10:20 am,
DeleteIn the first place, we never had any relationship problems with the Philippines despite that we are an American territory. After all, the Philippines was at one time a U.S. territory like Guam. We were spending money sending the few local men we had to the seminary in the US. Not all of them came back as priests, but left the priesthood. If our system was actually working, we wouldn't need to ask other countries for priests.
Gabriel, Louis, Michael(polish) three seminarians from RMS who didn't make it as priests as well....back to their home countries they went. Some communities, esp. Barrigada wanted to put Louis in collections for all their wasted donations...
DeleteMy name is Beatrice. Holy spirit inspired led me to Guam.
DeleteDiana - Who said we had a relationship problem with the Philippines? And despite that we're an American territory?? What the heck is going on in that brain of yours? Yikes!! Sounds like you've been drinking too much of the kiko-kool-ade.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:36 am,
DeleteDo you not read the posts I respond to? It was Anon. 10:20 am who stated "Friendships between Guam and Philippines established". The friendship between Guam and the Philippines was always there for we have a similar history with them. It was the United States that the Philippines was not too fond of. Their relationship with America had not always been stable.
This is what I never liked with the jungle. Instead of polite discussions or dialogues, they bring in insults like kiko koolade.
Diana, I met Beatrice newly come to live on island near friary.Beatrice is a religios woman born in Zurich assigned to live here on island for one year by Von Speyer community of St.John. Beatrice unusual spiritual gifts, reading minds, and soul of others. She can read your soul from this blog. Beatrice reading your souls guided by her friend padre pio.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:10 pm,
DeleteI am sorry, but I do not place my belief in a person who says they will or can put a spell on me. God is about love, not about casting spells on people.
Sister Beatrice here in Guam to bring healing building unity. She is not under archdiocese responsible to her superior in Germany. Sister from Zurich motherhouse in Bravaria Germany.
DeleteYes.....but does sister Beatrice walk on water?
DeleteNot meant to be a joke or anything.......her country needs more help.
ReplyDeleteOur system worked well Diana .Ninety five per cent of students we sent to St. Patrick's became priests.
70 per cent of students rms left in ten years.
Dear Anonymous at 4:47 pm,
DeleteIf 95% were becoming priests, then was Guam still asking for priests from the Philippines???
I don't know where anonymous would confirm the 70 percent or RMS seminarians leaving their calling but it were true......thank God. The remaining 30 percent are truly being blessed.
Deleteas for the 95 percent staying at St. Patricks....I have immediate doubts. The question of QUANTITY versus QUALITY comes to mind. It appears to be a factory bent on meeting a quota.
A mask.
JSB
ReplyDeletePicture of dark clouds circulating Guam . In the distance I can see the sun and image of Rainbow.I see aNimage of new life . A new archbishop of Guam is to be sent.
Dear Beatrice,
DeleteWake up from your dream. It isn't real.
I really believe that those who write against the Archbishop do not know him. Many have never spoke to him personally which is sad, because he is always available to anyone who wants to approach him. Believe me, Diana, he is the reverse of this ogre that they portray him to be. He is humble. He is forgiving. He is good. He loves his people. He works hard. He hardly ever has time for himself. He is completely dedicated to his flock. Biba Obispo..
DeleteThe archbishop, ought to show up in the townhall meetings to be with his people who do not agree with policies and answer the questions.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:27 am,
DeleteThe goal of Tim Rohr and CCOG is to remove the Archbishop; therefore, he does not need to be there. In fact, it is best that he is not there because they are not interested in hearing what he has to say.
I don't know how we ever managed without you telling us what everyone's motivations are, Diana. Its a real gift. You must be very proud of yourself
DeleteDear Anonymous at 2:59 pm,
DeleteTim Rohr has publicly announced that the Archbishop has to step down. That was not a gift to see that. It was plain common sense.
"they are not interested in hearing what he has to say. "
DeleteAnd you know this how? I would have imagined they would be very interested to hear what he had to say - which is why they've been asking a lot of questions for him to answer.
But you, and your wonderful gift of discernment, know better, hey?
Dear Anonymous at 9:58 pm,
DeleteFrom past experience, whenever the Archbishop gives an answer, they call him a liar anyway. The fact that they do this is evidence that they were never interested in hearing what he had to say.
Tim Rohr asks for justice he does not ask to remove anyone.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:24 pm,
DeleteTo Tim Rohr, justice means to remove the Archbishop.
Junglewatch people support unity of church. Junglewatch not want to remove archbishop.
DeleteNo gain for Tim Rohr to remove anyone. In a situation look at what man gains by actions. Tim gains nothing but headache for his good work. Many respect Tim and his ministry for Guam.
Dear Anonymous at 9:24 m,
DeleteTim Rohr has a gain. This is personal for him. His is a personal agenda, and it is obvious that he wants revenge.
Goal Tim Rohr CCOG and staff is to bring unity to Guam.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:25 pm,
DeleteThe goal of Tim Rohr and CCOG and staff is to remove the Archbishop and to destroy the NCW.
Jesus knew that going to Jerusalem would mean the cross and yet he went believing that God is in control.
ReplyDeleteThe Archbishop ought to follow Jesus's example.
ReplyDeleteAnonymousMarch 6, 2015 at 5:45 AM
Wow......God in control....of human man?
you as sadly mistaken anonymous as evident in your comment.
Who are you to tell someone else how to follow JESUS CHRIST?
Are you in CONTROL? Want to control the ARCH BISHOP? be honest