RMS Stays The Same
In the past, the jungle had expressed what they wanted to see come from the Yona property. They wanted the RMS to shut down. Some wanted it converted back into a hotel and turn it into a profitable business for the Church. However, the good news is that the RMS will continue to operate as it always has been. According to The Guamanian Magazine:
Still, the archbishop will approach the seminary he now controls with an open mind. “I have every intention that the seminary will continue. The action that I have taken is mainly to clarify the ownership of the property, and not so much over the seminary activity. So there’s a difference,” Byrnes explained.
“The seminary has produced, from what I understand, good fruit, good priests, not only for Guam but other diocese in the Oceana region. And so it’s another place I need to hear from, to see for myself. But I have at this point every intention to continue its service, and I certainly want to continue supporting the institute. It can be a tremendous source of grace for the Archdiocese. I have plenty of experience in the seminary, and I know the good it can do. I’ll know more [about the seminary] and I have no intention of changing its activity at this point.”
The RMS will continue its operation as it always has been even without a Board of Directors and Board of Guarantors. There will be no changes in its activities. As for the Neocatechumenal Way, this is what The Guamanian Magazine reported:
He is well aware of the deep rift between the traditionalists and the followers of the NCW, but again he is not ready to take any sides. “I can tell you this, I know the NCW. It’s highly respected, and it’s a movement within the Church, a movement that is meant to recharge, to refocus the faithful on important charisms of the Church. So I would hope that the priests that are formed in that seminary would take the growth that they receive and donate it to the parish.”
Byrnes said there are so many different spiritualities, and there should be a place where there are a variety of spiritualities. “You know I’m not part of the Neocatechumenal Way, but they’re Catholics. They’re the Neocatechumenal way, but theirs is not the only way. There’s definitely room for them on the island. But we’re Catholics, we’re not becoming something else. I will celebrate the mass the way the mass is celebrated.”
Archbishop Byrnes was incorrect when he said that the NCW is a movement. It is an itinerary of Christian formation. Nevertheless, he is aware that there are many different charisms in the Church. The Charismatic Renewal is one of those charisms. Archbishop Byrnes was never a member of the NCW, but he was a member of the Charismatic Renewal. It was that movement within the Catholic Church that brought him closer to Christ.
CCOG: bunch of elderly folks fooled in their old age by enchanting promises at JungleWatch that they were the only ones who could renew the church. Not only on Guam but also at Vatican! Is this not sad if not ridiculous? You need a whole lot of lunacy to believe that!
ReplyDeleteI would like to cry when I think of the poorly prepared senators at the Guam Legislature and our gullible Governor Calvo who were all misled to believe these misguided people to create a very, very dangerous piece of bill that will haunt Guam Catholics for the coming decades!
It is a truly sad beginning for 2017.
Anonymous, do you think the Guam legislature and the governor were misled? Really?!
DeleteNo so fast, please! Catholic people do not tolerate deliberate destruction of their faith. We stand with Jesus! People who misled the senate and the governor are losing their power and position big time! Just look around!
DeleteSenator Frank Blas Jr. the author of the pedophile bill was sent home from the senate by voters. He has no place in the legislature! Other senators were sent back home as well. They regret they ever listened to Rohr and his thugs. Frank Augon shot himself in the leg. He won't even be a governor because of what he did to the Catholic church.
Slowly, little-by-little the truth is coming out. The bill will be annulled because it violates the constitution. Archbishop Byrnes exactly knows what is at stake. It is much more than his reputation and legacy. The salvation of those souls is in danger who put their trust in our beloved Pope Francis! Archbishop Byrnes will stand by us because he also stands by Pope Francis!
The conspirators will need to abandon their maniacal ways of going after and torture the good Catholic folks of Jesus Christ for no particular reason.
Pope Francis calls oversimplified traditionalism a form of Pelagian heresy. This heresy was prevalent in the time of St. Augustine in the 4th-5th centuries. St. Augustine had to defend the Catholic faith against them and had to show point by point their heresy. Pelagianism is revived in our time by traditionalist groups. Let me quote Pope Francis:
ReplyDelete"The Pelagian solution. This basically appears as a form of restorationism. In dealing with the Church’s problems, a purely disciplinary solution is sought, through the restoration of outdated manners and forms which, even on the cultural level, are no longer meaningful. It seeks to “recover” the lost past."
http://en.radiovaticana.va/storico/2013/07/28/pope_francis_address_to_celam_leadership_/en1-714819
CCOG calls itself a traditionalist group. I wonder if they are in Pelagian heresy? They want to restore the Latin mass in the Friary as was before Vatican II. Is this not restorationism? Ignoring Vatican II is already foolish, especially if it comes from heretical views of outdated manners and forms. Without respecting and honoring what happened at Vatican II, no progress is possible in the church.
DeleteVatican 2 was a scam. I don't say everything was heretical, but some famous heresies from the old times were resuscitated. This is a major trouble of the post conciliar faith of Catholics! I don't say everyone was a heretic at Vatican 2, but the some heretical theologians were free to parade their heretical views as church teaching! It was disgusting. It is unforgivable!
DeletePope Francis has to undo the damages of Vatican 2. He must give more prominence to genuinely Catholic forms of the Holy mass like the Latin mass! Little-by-little, the Latin mass will have to be restored. There won't be peace on Guam until all parishes offer the traditional Latin way of the Sunday service for our faithful to protect them from the temptation coming from the NCW!
People who do not recognize V2 are schismatics and have their own churches. You are free to join them. Stop poisoning the Catholic Church with your ignorance and hate.
DeleteThose who hate Vatican II are accomplice to division. They want to undo all the blessing of Vatican 2. But how can they do that? Only by the power of devil!
DeleteDear Anonymous at 12:59 pm,
DeleteNOT even the power of the devil can accomplish that.
First of all, Anon at 8.01 is obviously a NCW impersonating a traditionalist. The "little-by-little" catchphrase is too much of a give away.
DeleteSecondly,
"through the restoration of outdated manners and forms which, even on the cultural level, are no longer meaningful. It seeks to “recover” the lost past."
Isn't this precisely the argument that the NCW use to justify its practices? That the "early church" did things a certain way, that the Church adopted unnecessary "pagan accretions" and that the NCW is simply recovering the "lost past"?
Ironic. And Stupid.
After Vatican II everything that was before is past.
DeleteHey anon, are you impersonating yourself or whom?
DeleteDo you ever wonder what St Augustine would have thought of the NCW?
ReplyDeleteSt Augustine would tell you guys at JW to pray that our Lord leads you back to the flock. Without mercy you have no salvation and no path toward God.
DeleteJesus Christ is crying when he sees you guys sell your souls to someone with a big and fat bank account. He did not come to redeem you so that you can betray Him and sell your souls to big fat bank accounts that replace your faith in Him who is only worthy of praise.
This is ridiculous. How do you know who has "big fat bank account" and who has not? It is not a sin to be well-off. You have responsibility to support your family. Especially if you have a big family with many children!
DeleteIf st. Augustine were alive today he would celebrate the liturgy the way ncw does because it is much more similar to the way he celebrated than any other liturgical form or rite in the church today.
DeleteDiana I was a zealot for over 20 years, a responsible and a catechist. Do you want to know the truth? I am happy to meet with AB Byrnes and to tell him the truth. Can you live with it?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 6:57 am,
DeleteYou would only be telling the truth about yourself rather than about the NCW.
What does that mean? Any criticism of the NCW MUST be a lie? How arrogant and self-deceptive. No wonder you are destined to repeat the same errors again and again.
DeleteAnon 12:18 PM. What errors but yours?
DeletePlease anon, go and bad mouth us at Archbishop Byrnes so that he'd learn quickly who you really are! Lol.
DeleteThe truth is not bad mouthing. The truth is that NCW is not following the church as it is. There is a suspicion that you desecrate the Body of Christ when you sit down to eat. Consume it standing! Is this not heresy? Is this not disrespectful toward Jesus Christ?
DeleteWhen we tell to AB Byrnes about this, we'll know at once if he is a true bishop or just someone looking for a red hat. He comes from off island to Guam to be a leader. Is this right? A true bishop stands with us because we have the truth. It is not taking sides when we talk about truth. There is only one truth. No other side possible but the only truth we tell him.
Dear Anonymous at 2:25 pm,
DeleteYou had three years to bring it to the attention of the Pope and still nothing. When Tim Rohr complained to Archbishop Hon about how we celebrate, Hon said the NCW is doing just fine. During the time Archbishop Hon was the Apostolic Administrator, he did nothing about it. The reason being is we are not violating the liturgy.
Anon, there is no more reverent way to take the Eucharist than at the communities. We adore the Body of Christ resting in our palm as He rested on the cross. Our hands form a resemblance of the holy cross and right in the middle is the Body of our Savior. It is beautiful and respectful! We pray to Him and sing to Him before we consume. Please, come to our Eucharist one time to experience the deep reverence of the Catholic liturgy among us. I promise, you'll never forget its spiritual beauty!
DeleteDear Anon at 1.05. Have you educated yourself on what the Church teaches about the sacrament of the altar? About what is going on?
DeleteIf Jesus Christ was to appear in front of you now, would you sit down? Would you stand, then sit? Or would you prostrate yourself or fall to your knees?
You don't need to reply, just honestly think about it please.
Dear Anon at 1:28 pm, Thomas the apostle was able to touch the wounds on the side of our Lord after His resurrection and he believed. "My Lord and my God", he said. Thomas came to epitomize Christian faith. Faith begins with doubt that is overcome by a touch of the transcendent, a touch of the divine, a touch of Jesus Christ!
DeleteI cannot touch the wounds of Jesus in a piece of bread, even though I know that the Presence of Jesus Christ is in that piece of bread and this Presence is real! There is a slight difference between Jesus the person and His Presence in the Eucharist. Both of them is real, but in a different way. This is no heresy bro, it is the reality of our faith. I can touch Jesus through faith! I hope that you are not so close minded that you don't get the truth.
Dear Anonymous at 3:19 pm,
DeleteWhen you touch the host, you are literally touching the Body of Jesus. After the priest has consecrated the bread, that is no longer bread. It is the actual Body of Christ.
You said something, but you didn't answer the question, bro. Nevermind.
DeleteDear anon, please do not impersonate Tim Rohr.
DeleteDear Tim Rohr, please do not impersonate anon.
Lol!
Dear Diana, I know it by heart that the Body of Christ is on my palm. I pray to Him, Lord I am not worthy that you enter under my roof... I cannot feel His bodily hurts and injuries as St. Thomas did, but I feel my own wounds that I caused myself by sin! I know the Lord is Present because it is the teaching of the church. But I would be lying if I would say I can fully comprehend this mystery. This is just a mystery of a magnificent order!
DeleteWhen I consume the Eucharist, which is the Body of Christ you know, my body still processes it as bread and not as protein. I digest Jesus by embracing His body with mine. He is inside me giving me energy, both bodily and spiritual! The bodily energy is coming as calories that I digested. The spiritual energy is coming as being unified by Christ. Communion! What a magnificent word. What a magnificent reality: Jesus in me.
What did AB Byrnes mean when he said "I will celebrate the mass the way the mass is celebrated."?
ReplyDeleteDid he mean that he realizes that the NCW does not celebrate mass the way mass is celebrated?
Byrnes won't ever celebrate with neo. This is what he says!
DeleteThe jungle is out there to cook up the new archbishop and use him for their purpose! Horrified.
ReplyDeleteAnonymousJanuary 9, 2017 at 10:02 AM
Archbishop Byrnes, you should not look "at both sides" to decide what is the best and diplomatic way to deal with this division, mistrust, and loss of respect of the Church leaders and of some in the clergy? There is only one side and that is the side of good vs.evil. Do not discuss this matter with everyone under the sun to see the best way to "can we all just get along?" You must remove the NCW from all the parishes and not allow them to operate within the borders of our Archdiocese. "They are a Jewish-Protestant sect with a Catholic decoration." Do not be fooled. I pray for your enlightenment and success. Do not let us down.
Jungle preparing to Roast Archbishop Byrnes like a pig.
DeleteMaking decision for an Archbishop behind his back, without even asking him is unheard of in the Catholic Church! CCOG wants to take out decision making from the hand of the rightful authority who cannot be other than the local bishop! What does this mean? What Rohr is proposing is nothing else but self governance! He wants the laity to govern the local church. This is a very dangerous proposal! Only the bishop has the authority to govern the diocese and correct the errors of the clergy and the faithful. This authority cannot be taken away!
DeleteThe attack of Junglewatch on Pope Francis reveals an international coordination of activism. The command post of CCOG is somewhere in the mainland giving marching order and slogans to the Sunday picketers. Rohr works hard to have his own local command but he is constantly overridden by his own comrades on the mainland. This visibly irks him a lot. The goal is not only to question the authority of the bishops but also of the Pope sitting in Rome!
The code words they are using are about "keeping the bishops accountable", "requesting action from the Pope", "you cannot trust Vatican", etc. are calling for rebellion against all Catholic authorities in order to establish self governing bodies that will take over parish matters and finances alike! This goals are popularized by collaborating liberal media.
Why would self governance by laity be a grave mistake in the Catholic Church? Because it discards the apostolic succession of rule. Our church was established by our Lord on a rock named Cefas or Peter! This is a distinguished feature of Christianity that the leading apostle is the Rock! There is no self governance to depose and oust church leaders. The apostolic succession guarantees the continuity of faith.
CCC 1558 states: "Episcopal consecration confers, together with the office of sanctifying, also the offices of teaching and ruling. . . . In fact . . . by the imposition of hands and through the words of the consecration, the grace of the Holy Spirit is given, and a sacred character is impressed in such wise that bishops, in an eminent and visible manner, take the place of Christ himself, teacher, shepherd, and priest, and act as his representative (in Eius persona agant)." "By virtue, therefore, of the Holy Spirit who has been given to them, bishops have been constituted true and authentic teachers of the faith and have been made pontiffs and pastors."
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a6.htm
we will close down this Seminary this year one way or another. Our main goal to close it down.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah?! I challenge you! You cannot close down the seminary. Period! It is only the Pope who can close down a seminary. Nobody else. But he won't!
DeleteKeep dreaming wild dreams, Rohr? Wake up already and face reality. We are here to stay forever! You cannot chase the faithful away as long as we stand with our Lord! Jesus can make believers even from the rocks. You can't!
DeleteNo one is saying ncw cannot live here. Movement is welcome. It has a place as all movements do.
DeleteHowever, it must follow the teaching of the church and respect local church leadership. Bishop should not join any movement. Apuron sold his soul to kiko. That was the problem.
Dear Anonymous at 10:30 am,
DeleteActually, the problem is you chose to believe that it is not following Church teaching. The NCW follows Church teaching.
The NCW clearly does not follow Church teaching in regard to the sacrament of the Eucharist, but rather stubbornly persists in a different communion. Even though there is no permission given to the way the NCW celebrates "Mass", they hove no intention of conforming to the instructions of the liturgical books of the Roman Rite, but only to what Kiko tells them to do.
DeleteIn this way the NCW cuts itself off from the very heart of communion in the Church of Christ.
"No one is saying ncw cannot live here."
DeleteNow you say this? Please, tell this to Rohr, Sablan, Klietzkie, Glucoan, White, French, LaPaz, Lifschitz also and all the others who preach the opposite until they are blue.
Dear Anonymous at 12:39 pm,
DeleteThe NCW has been in existance for over 50 years already. If the NCW was actually doing something wrong, the Pope would have disciplined Kiko and the NCW a long time ago. Instead, the Pope has rewarded Kiko.
"The NCW clearly does not follow Church teaching in regard to the sacrament of the Eucharist."
DeleteIs this the last straw you are gasping to hold on against us?! Ridiculous! You all know that there is nothing wrong with our Eucharist. Also, all the Popes have known this who willingly participated. What are you talking about? Lol!
since it's so clear to you, maybe you should enlighten pope Francis, Cardinal mueller, filoni, the 108 bishops and cardinals that have a redemptoris mater seminary in their diocese, the hundreds of bishops that have communities in their dioceses, the hundreds of thousands of pastors that have communities in their parishes. Since it's so clear to you that the ncw is wrong or whatever you should take it upon yourself to clarify their error to them. Not just stating your parrot-like opinion on a blog. Go to the church hierarchy...oh wait! You don't believe that the Holy Spirit works through the church hierarchy, right? You don't believe that the Holy Spirit acted in Vatican 2, or in anything other than the Latin Mass. so if you don't believe that the Holy Spirit is in the Church (i.e. Hierarchy and Vatican 2) why are you catholic?
DeleteDear Anon at 5:11 pm
DeleteThe NCW's Eucharist has been approved by the catholic church. THe eucharist has evolved and changed over the centuries, but it's core has always remained. The church has carefully examined the "NCW" Eucharist and approved it.
What I find interesting is that many priests actually create and invent their own Eucharist or garnish it with weird things as I've seen in so many different countries, yet they aren't under scrutiny.
I think this is more of a problem of power than a problem of spirituality. In my experience most people who have a true spiritual life of prayer find the NCW to be refreshing. Refreshing in that it looks for authenticity in spiritual life not just fulfilling rites because we have to.
This also has a negative aspect, because for those who do not follow what the NCW teaches as authentic the NCW can be threatenig. Which is really not the NCW's teachings it's the Catholic Church's which is why all the catechetical books have been approved by the catholic church. In fact they have been personally read by Ratzinger (Benedict XVI).
The Catholic Church does not force it's teachings upon people, which is why it is so diverse. However the NCW presents the Catholic Teachings to the fullest, and does not soften them. The reason is because it is a way for adult christian formation. So they will not lie to you. Many people who already have their own religion (not Catholic even though they are titled catholics) are threatened when they are told that they are not Christian, and immediately will look at the defects of those in the NCW to attack it and justify themselves. (ignorance is bliss) This is why the NCW has enemies. Coincidentally (not) most of those enemies have no spiritual lives. This is why Christianity starts with humility. You have to be humble to listen to anything that goes against your character.
"the church has carefully examined the "NCW" Eucharist and approved it. "
DeleteThis is quite the assertion. Can you show any evidene that this is true?
"That is quite a statement" not its the facts. Do u live under a rock? Go read what Cardinal mueller wrote about the ncw barely a month ago. Read the statutes. Watch videos of john paul 2 celebrating the ncw liturgy. read what Benedict XVII has written about the liturgy and the way. Read what pope Francis has said. Come on! This game has been going on for too long. Look at the documentation! Stop taking what jungle says as truth. He is deceiving you!
DeleteDear anon at 11:37 he could also be referring to the Latin mass.
ReplyDeleteByrnes must be a man of tremendous courage and faith. He knows how violent tim rohr is, how disgusting his language is and that of his followers. I don't know if he realizes that they pay people to slander those they do not like. He knows he might be going towards martyrdom (maybe not physical but certainly the jungle will assassinate his character and reputation if he doesn't do what they want) and yet he accepted to go to an island in the middle of the pacific far from his home to bring Christ. Guam u might not realize you are getting an extraordinary man for bishop.
ReplyDeleteRohr is already hiring spies in Detroit to dig up dirt on Byrnes. He wanna go with the child abuse line because it paid him off on Guam. It is Rohr's expertise inside the agency is to come up with various accusations with pedophilia. He is fascinated with sexual crime! Little he knows Detroit is no way Guam! They recognize pervs. People in Detroit won't appreciate Rohr's ruinous attitude of accusing good folks with bad things.
DeleteDiana ccog is demanding answers about fr.adrian and him being sent to cannon law and their using the case of fr.paul
ReplyDeleteDave Sablan is making a fool of himself again. He is acting like a cry baby. There is no litmus test on an Archbishop by disgruntled laity in the Catholic church! How could be? For what purpose? It was decided that Fr. Adrian will pursue studies of canon law in Ottawa. So why don't you just accept this as a solution and shut up?
DeleteCCOG has the wrong idea of leadership and holy order. Catholics are led in faith by priests and bishops. It has never been that angry picketers tell the Archbishop what to do. Was it not at Golgotha that our Lord was crucified while an angry crowd cheered? It was not the vilified crowd that made the decision of eternal salvation. The decision belonged to God! Jesus prayed for the wicked, forgive them Father, they do no know what they are doing.
If Archbishop Byrnes made a decision, you'll need to live with that decision even if you don't like it. It is not up to the laity to decide in matters of governance of the diocese. A handful of radicals keep pushing wrong buttons. Now, JW is demanding Hon back to replace Byrnes. OMG, this is way beyond being ridiculous. It is tragic! Are these people nuts? How could Hon be back when Archbishop Byrnes was appointed by Pope Francis as Coadjutor Archbishop of Agana? CCOG demands a reversal of the decision of Pope Francis! They even want to override the Pope! How arrogant is that?!
Sorry, but it is Archbishop Byrnes who has the mandate to rule. Neither David Sablan nor Timothy Rohr have the mandate. Simple as that!
DeleteWhat does CCOG have to do with Fr. Paul? Fr. Paul distanced himself from JW and CCOG because they misused his case for their own purpose against his will and without his permission.
Deleteccog demand answers on fr adrian. who ccog to demand answers?
ReplyDeleteCannon law ??? Hmmm
ReplyDeleteHow has Kiko been rewarded ny the Pope?
ReplyDeleteProfessional hate mongers work for CCOG. They concoct stories to discredit Archbishop Byrnes on JW and in the local media while pushing forward Rohr's instruction regarding local church matters. These hired tongues are paid by CCOG money that will be reimbursed by the fallout of the sexual abuse lawsuits. Watch out Guam Catholics! Their goals and premeditated acts are pure evil!
ReplyDeleteAll they want is to embarrass Pope Francis in all possible ways.
Hi Diana, Here's a reprint of my entry. I am part of this dialogue and would appreciate you printing it.
ReplyDeleteRe:AnonymousJanuary 12, 2017 at 3:19 PM
"That is quite a statement" not its the facts. Go read what Cardinal mueller wrote about the ncw barely a month ago.(Cardinal Muller did not say the alterations to the Mass were OK.) Read the statutes. (The approved Statutes of 2008 do NOT give permission for the alterations)Watch videos of john paul 2 celebrating the ncw liturgy.(He celebrated much like any visiting priest - without much say. Celebrate he did,so as not to deny the people Jesus - He may have liked their passion for the Mass, but he did not like their Mass. You can say he was there to see first hand what he had to correct.) read what Benedict XVII has written about the liturgy (Read his book "Spirit of the Liturgy" where he references not kneeling is a sign of the diabolical)and the way (Refer to 2005 where the NCW was told to change by B16 through Arinze.) Read what pope Francis has said.(Again a pat on the back for the NCW's evangelization, love of scripture, etc. does not include a pat on the back for all the unapproved alterations in the NCW Mass.)Come on! This game has been going on for too long. Look at the documentation!(Ditto!!) Stop taking what jungle says as truth. He is deceiving you!(Unfortunately, in regards to the NCW Mass, satan has deceived you.) Please change.
Dear Anonymous at 9:33 am,
DeleteI have said this so many times. If you think that we are doing the Eucharist incorrectly, complain to the Vatican about it. We have had Archbishop Hon, Archbishop Krebs, and Father Novak visit our island and not one of them addressed the way the NCW celebrates the Eucharist. In fact in 2015, Archbishop Hon told Tim Rohr that the NCW is doing fine , after he complained about the Way we celebrate the Eucharist. But he rejected Hon's answer. You do not have the authority to tell the NCW to change.
You know why these people keep bringing up the liturgy?
DeleteIt is a problem if childhood education. They are used to having to tell their children the same thing over and over and their kids don't obey. The kids do not obey their parents because their parents are disobedient to the authority over them as well.
Do you want to know why Cardinal mueller pope Francis pope Benedict pope john paul etc etc etc do not speak about the liturgy? Because the ncw has already obeyed them and there is nothing wrong with their liturgy.
Please do not misquote Ratzinger on kneeling by taking the quote out of context. I've read the book too and am not tricked by your half quotes. And shame on you for presenting joh paul as some kind of idiot stuck doing something he didn't want to do. Do your research and find out how many times saint john paul the great celebrated ncw liturgy and read ogniqualvolta. Lying is from Satan.
Dear Anonymous Jan 14 226PM
ReplyDeleteRatzinger's quotes in his book show his dislike of not kneeling, to say differently is to misquote him (not just me). I have a deep respect for Saint John Paul II, I did not present him as an idiot (you did). I did my research; so how many times did Saint John Paul the great celebrate your ncw Mass? You make it sound like he did it many times - that is simply not true - 2X. Please also note, NEVER did he celebrate the ncw Mass for the hundreds that would show up in Rome...NEVER - even though he commended the ncw for many other things. Also note that when Carman died, she NEVER was permitted a ncw funeral - even though she was greatly praised for her enthusiasm for evangelization. Lying is indeed from Satan - and so is deception.