The Neocatechumenals celebrate their “Convivencia de Inicio de Curso” every year according to the Jewish calendar, without exception.........This adoption of the Jewish new year competes with our own liturgical year and only serves to heighten the sectarian walls the separates "the Way" from the Catholic Church.
http://thoughtfulcatholic.com/?page_id=43090
Christianity came from Judaism, and her roots is also found in Judaism. The first Christians were Jewish, and the Founder of the Catholic Church (Jesus Christ) was also Jewish. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
CCC 839
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, "the first to hear the Word of God." The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."
What does this means? It means that the Catholic Church is the fulfillment and completion of God's self-revelation that started with Abraham. God continued His revelation through Moses. His revelation is then conveyed across the next twelve centuries of the Old Covenant until they were prepared to receive Christ, who reconciled God with man in the New Covenant. There is a direct line from Moses, who said, "Behold the blood of the covenant which the Lord has made with you (See Exodus 24:8) to Jesus, who said, "This is My blood of the covenant (See Matthew 26:28). This ancient Jewish priesthood continues today in the person of the Catholic priest. So, how can one separate Judaism from Catholicism when Judaism is part of our roots and our heritage? In fact, Scott Hahn, an apologist, once stated that to understand Catholicism, one needs to understand Judaism.
Jesus Christ, His Apostles, and many of the disciples were Jewish. Jewish law states that a child born to a Jewish mother remains a Jew. Thus, the Early Christians considered themselves completed Jews and continued to pray in the synagogues. As a matter of fact, the Apostle Paul considered himself a Jew even after his conversion.
Acts 21:38 Paul answered, “I am a Jew, from Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no ordinary city. Please let me speak to the people.”
Later, these Early Christians who viewed themselves as Jews were kicked out of the synagogues. Our Jewish heritage is also found in the liturgy and Mass as Scott Hahn learned during his conversion period. The priests' vestments, for example, have ancient origin. His outer garment, the chasuble, a large cone-shaped cloth with a hole for the head, was often worn in Palestine during the Greek and Roman occupations.
Exodus 28:2, 4 And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty. And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
One of the things that converted apologist Stephen Ray into the Catholic Church was our Jewish heritage. The fact that the Neocatechumenal Way has highlighted our Jewish roots does not separate us from the Catholic Church, but serves as a reminder to appreciate where we came from and who our Founder is......a Jewish man named Jesus Christ.
Great insider view Diana, Mr.White your not the only one has knowledge. Keep at it.
ReplyDeleteChuck White, Janet B and Tim explain to us why is the Way sectarian by embracing Jewich tradition?????
ReplyDeleteDiane, look at what Chucky says about your post.
ReplyDeleteChuck WhiteOctober 28, 2014 at 7:37 PM
If Fr. Edivaldo wants to comment on my post, he should do it here, Anon 5:28.
Current Jewish practices are admirable, but the adoption of them by "the Way" is meant to heighten the sectarian wall that divides them from Catholics.
Dear Anonymous at 11:14 am,
DeleteNow, this is funny. Chuck White makes a remark about my "Beginning of the Year Retreat" post on his blog. He never came to my blog, but I have to respond to his post on the jungle?? And he thinks I'm Father Edivaldo?? So, if he thinks I'm Father Edivaldo, does he think that he knows better than him??
Chuck White says that we ADOPT Jewish practices? Someone should tell him that the Catholic Church never adopted Jewish practices. These practices found in the Catholic Church comes from our Jewish roots and heritage.. After all, Jesus celebrated ALL the Jewish feasts.
i think that the NCW embraces Jewish history, the aesthetics of eastern orthodox art, it's changes to the Mass and the Eucharist because it simply sees defects in the Catholic Rite and models itself to be something better than what the run of the mill Church can do with all it's populus that it has to serve. It certainly is elitist if not protestant.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 6:21 pm,
DeleteThe Catholic includes the Latin rite AND the eastern rite Church. There are eastern rite Churches that are in communion with the Pope, and these Eastern Catholics (as we call them) follow the same similar rites as the Eastern Orthodox Church. If you criticize the Eastern rite art, you also criticize the Catholic Church. And it is not the NCW that embraces Jewish history. The Catholic Church embraces it as well. After all, the Catholic Church embraces and believes in the Old Testament books, not ONLY the New Testament books.
White's claim is mistaken. The date for the convivence of the beginning of the year has been decided thus because of the Western European academic year. In most European countries, but especially in Italy, people take a large portion of their vacation days (which are much more numerous than for those employed in the US) in the months of July and August. This causes the well observable "emptying out" of the major cities. So you can't really do the work of evangelization with catechesis, steps, etc., in the summer. Also the communities are celebrating joining together for the liturgies these months for the same reason. Mr. White did a sloppy research once again. He is nervously looking for things he considers negative about the Way; so nervously that he doesn't have time to become certain of the things he writes and airs them prematurely. He surely doesn't know that in South America the convivence of the beginning of the year is usually held in February and the choosing of the date there and anywhere has nothing to do with the Jewish calendar.
ReplyDeleteMr. White could avoid embarrassment such as this one was by simply posting an honest question on Diana's blog, such as, "Why is the convivence of the beginning of the year held on those dates?"
I usually check Diana's blog entries and the comments, and could've surely answered him and saved him from embarrassment.
Dear Anonymous at 12:05 am,
DeleteEven if we were to have our Beginning of the Year Convivience in December, Mr. White will simply find another negative reason. The fact that he never bothered to ask us the question and would prefer to make up his own reason shows that he is not interested in finding out the truth. He would rather come up with his own version of truth.
Well, dear Diana, I admit, the case appears to be that way; but let us leave the judgment of persons up to God. For some reason I have a conviction that every human being desires the Truth in the depths of their heart. Sometimes this desire gets twisted and buried (and in that I am no exception). However, what we need to judge are the facts and concrete acts, not the person or what he or she will do in the future (which we don't know anyway). That's why I pointed out that I found this particular accusation false. Perhaps Mr. White will get to read it and reconsider his position.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:00 pm,
DeleteBelow is what Scripture says about judgment:
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
Do you know what the above scripture is saying???? It is saying that we can judge our brothers and sisters in Christ for the purpose of CORRECTING them so they can come to know the TRUTH. It is only those OUTSIDE the Church that we leave the judgment of persons up to God. We have no business judging non-Christians, who have not YET come to the truth. And we have no business judging anyone (Christian or not) to Hell. That was never our place to judge a man's soul to Hell.
The truth is.....Mr. White never bothered to ask us why it is called the "Beginning of the Year Convivience." He simply decided to make up his own assumption about it. In fact, in his entire blog, he said many negative things about the Way of which he never asked us about. All the information he got was either his own conclusion or the conclusion of anti-Neo websites who also came up with their own conclusion.
Some people completely misunderstand the Jewish heritage of the Catholic faith. Our Jewish heritage does not mean we are Jews. Scott Hahn and Stephen Ray are exemplary Catholics because they converted to our faith with consideration. They considered our Jewish roots that we are inclined to the Old Testament commands and regulations as part of the teaching of the Catholic Church.
ReplyDeleteWe keep all of the Jewish customs in our celebrations because the Jews are the chosen people of God who has never abandoned them. This is the misunderstanding, because we are Catholics just as St Paul was who considered himself a Jew, a disciple of rabbi Gemailel. So are we ashamed of our heritage? By no means! We at the Way are following God, just as all Catholics should, because we want to show the world that God has never abandoned the Jews. One day they will be with us in Paradise and we'll be celebrating together for eternity! Horah and horah!
Dear Diana, if you allow Ernie to say these things then you also have to allow responses. I tried to explain what is wrong about Ernie's comment. It is not fair that you exclude meaningful discussion. It is no secret that the Catholic-Jewish relation was deemed for improvement at Vatican II. We all know that the tragic loss of lives of millions in WWII strained relations. We have historical reason to make changes.
DeleteSome Christian denominations developed friendly theologies towards Judaism. Theological innovations are possible in small churches where doctrine is not guarded by a Magisterium. When we Catholics want to improve relations we don't talk theological innovations. Our Church has decent and reliable doctrine that is not to change. Improving relation can be done when we stick to teching of and about Jesus Christ.
However what Ernie is talking about is different. He talks about religious convergence that is very disturbing. The chosen people of God is His Church. How can you override this basic teaching? The Jews can join the Church as it would happen in eschatological times. But it is not the same as "adjusting" our basic doctrines for accommodation. Please keep separate what do not belong together. Diana, if Ernie's views do not reflect your blog's philosophy, then indicate this for everyone so that we can make a distinction. Thanks.
Dear voice of faith,
DeleteMany of your comments are anti-Semitic and do not even make a lot of sense. You want to keep separate the Jews? Then take your Bible and tear out all the pages of the Old Testament because the Old Testament speak about the history of the Jewish people.
You fail to recognize that Christianity came from Judaism and that the Catholic Church still retains her Jewish roots and heritage. You think that Christ was Christian when He was actually raised a Jew. You fail to understand other people's comments. Ernie was not speaking about religious convergence. I have no idea how you got that from his comment. Ernie clearly said that we Catholics should not be ashamed of our Jewish heritage. As a matter of fact, do you not even see the title of this post??? It clearly says "Our Jewish HERITAGE." What does the word "heritage" mean to you? Please use a dictionary if you do not know the meaning of the word.
And for your information, God made a promise that the Jews would be His chosen people, and God NEVER breaks His promises. They are still His chosen people. In the Way, we also want the Jews to know who Jesus Christ is. The Jews today are still waiting for the Messiah to come. They do not realize that their Messiah already came in the person of Jesus Christ more than 2000 years ago.
Like Chuck White, you come up with all these assumptions on your own and nowhere in any of my posts or comments did we ever say that we are Jews or that we follow the Jewish people. We recognize our Jewish roots and heritage. The Catholic Church is very well aware of her Jewish heritage, and she never despised it the way the jungle does.
Dear Diana, you make charges against my comments as some of them being anti-Semitic. Please, prove what you say. Point out, please, what is anti-Semitic in your reading about what I wrote. Perhaps you do not know the meaning of the word? I tried to give you a Jewish point of view as far as I understand it. I am familiar with some of these issues because I read stuff, okay? Are you reading material available on the Internet about what Jews really want from Catholics? What they want is respect and improved relations in acknowledging their history. They do not want us to change the Catholic doctrine and they do not want to belong to our Church in any sense. There is a notion of autonomy and integrity of religions that you should respect. Catholics don't interfere with the customs and rituals of Judaism. Likewise, Jews don't interfere with the liturgy of the Catholic or any other Christian Church. There is no such intention from either side at all! Do you understand this, dear Diana?
DeleteSo what is Ernie talking about making theological adjustments for accommodation? It is not the way to reconcile relations. We cannot say there is other way apart from our Savior, because there is none. We cannot say the Church is not chosen by God, because it was! We cannot tell God loves those whom He chose first better, than the members of the Church of Jesus Christ. We know all mankind needs salvation and it is only through our Lord. If you say anything else, you are not saying the truth about the Catholic Church.
Now, if you think it is anti-Semitic in any sense or in any part of what I wrote here, then please, do not hesitate and prove it. Point out by arguments and Catholic teaching if you cannot agree with something. Because I followed what the Church taught me in decades and wrote down what is right in the light of these teachings. But I am not sure what are you following when you make judgement on others and deem meaningful attempts of exchanging views on these important issues unworthy to allow.
Dear voice of faith,
DeleteHow can you give a Jewish point of view when you are not even Jewish. Only a Jewish person can give a Jewish point of view because he has lived his/her faith. You are now saying that you know better than the Jew.
You cannot even recognize the Jewish traditions inside the Catholic Church. The Catholic liturgy came from the Jewish liturgy, which is what this post is about. And you cannot recognize that the Jews are STILL the chosen people of God.
You asked, "So what is Ernie talking about making theological adjustments for accommodation?"
Voice of faith, no where in Ernie's comment did he even mention "theological adjustment for accommodation." That came from you.
Diana，please read the two parts of Anonymous November 1, 2014 at 4:49 PM below. It contains a detailed list of problems in Ernie's posts that clearly points to an intention of theological adjustments of the teaching of the Catholic Church. I cannot make a better list. Let me just add two things about the comment Ernie made above here.
Delete1. "We are inclined to the Old Testament commands and regulations as part of the teaching of the Catholic Church." The Old Testament commands and regulations as NOT part of the teaching of the Catholic Church! Please, show me anything in the CCC that supports this claim.
2. "We at the Way are following God, just as all Catholics should, because we want to show the world that God has never abandoned the Jews." Well, I am a Catholic for one who is following God for different reason. My reason is NOT that I want to show anyone anything about the Jews. I follow God because Jesus Christ is God's second person, He is the Son and I follow Him.
There is an impression that Ernie perhaps did not talk for the Way. Perhaps the confusion is in his mind only. It would be much easier to find common ground if you would just distance yourself and your blog from Ernie's comments.
Dear Voice of faith,
DeleteThe confusion is in your mind. I would read Ernie's comment as a whole and not just one sentence. Some of the Old Testament commands are still part of the teaching of the Catholic Church. Remember that Christ did not come to destroy the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill it. The Ten Commandments, with the exception of the Saturday Sabbath, still applies to Catholics. Thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not commit adultery, etc. were Old Testament commands that still applies to us.
May I ask what credentials Mr. White has giving him credibility to "critique" the NCW? I can appreciate him having his "personal thoughts", but how does his credentials stack up to the Five Congregations of the Holy See — Doctrine of the Faith, Divine Worship, Bishops, Catholic Education, and Council of the Laity — that spent many years reviewing everything about the Way and finally approving statutes of the Neocatechumenal Way?
ReplyDeleteAnon 8:49AM Exactly. But the sad part of who hates the Way believes it but I was told by many Catholics who are outside the Way dislike his negativity.
ReplyDeleteDear Ernie at 7:35. I confess I am confused by your post. What do you mean by "We keep all of the Jewish customs in our celebrations because the Jews are the chosen people of God who has never abandoned them"? First of all, we do not keep "all" the Jewish customs. Secondly, do you mean the ancient Jewish customs, or those that have come about since the advent of Christianity (like the Dayenu for example)?
ReplyDeleteFinally, I can't imagine anyone seriously contending that God has abandoned the Jews. God made the Jews a promise of salvation and that promise was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. God is faithful to his Promise. However, anyone that rejects Jesus Christ with knowledge and intent, surely cannot hope to rely on the hope of salvation through Him? Those Jews that accept Jesus have become Christian - those that have obstinately refused to acknowledge who Jesus is, who God truly is, remain in a precarious state.
Your post seems to imply that one can reject Jesus and yet be saved. That Jews have an alternative path to salvation? I hope this is not what you meant, because this is entirely problematic, and not an orthodox Catholic position.
Dear Anon at 2:54 pm, which part are you confused by? We Catholics keep symbols and traditions the way we believe in them. We got a helluva criticism in the Way about our symbols, anyway. What is this criticism good for? Would it help anyone to be a better follower? We don't need to give account to anyone. If we like the Menorah or any other item who can object to that? The Jews are the chosen people of God and we keep their customs as much we feel appropriate at our celebration of God. Our faith needs to grow up.
DeleteYou say the promise to the Jews was fulfilled in Jesus. This means we all belong together, they are our elder brothers in faith, don't you think so? We got the promise through Jesus and they got the promise from God himself in the Old Testament. They got it first, didn't they? We needed Jesus to know God but they knew God firsthand. They even knew his Name before anyone else knew it. But God gave us another chance in Jesus to be saved. Jews did not need that other chance because they had the first one, the original promise. They never refused to acknowledge God. This is the whole point. So we need to learn from them and follow their path that will lead us to God. Especially those Jews who follow the Biblical tradition, I think the orthodox. We don't follow everything, but we follow their path to God as a minimum. What is important is the attitude of submission to God's will through His chosen people.
There is no alternative way to salvation. Our Christian faith opened up for us the same way the Jews had from the beginning. This is a reason for our celebration. God loves us, even if He loved his first chosen better. He found us worthy to care for us. as the younger brothers of faith. He did not abandon us, not at all! He sent Jesus His Son to us to make up what we had missed when we were still pagan idolaters. So it is time to repent and convert ourselves. I tell you brother, it is time for conversion for all who do not know God, for all Christians to repent and acknowledge our sinfulness before God. This is what we mean by adult faith.
Wow, is this what you are taught in the NCW? This is rather incredible. You appear to be saying that the Jews don't need Jesus for salvation. Its hard to know where to start but I'll give it a try.
Delete"We don't need to give account to anyone. If we like the Menorah or any other item who can object to that?"
You are obliged to follow faithfully the liturgy of the Catholic Church, not to make up your own. No-one whether they be Bishop, priest or layman is entitled to meddle with the public worship of the Church - the center, and means of unity in the body of believers. As you say, you use symbols meaningfully. Your use of the menorah signifies a different belief to the rest of the Roman Rite Church which does not use this symbol on the altar.
"We got the promise through Jesus and they got the promise from God himself in the Old Testament."
This is plain wrong. The Promise made to Adam, to Abraham and the Israelites is the same promise fulfilled in Jesus. If those to whom the promise was made refuse the fulfillment of that promise, in what way can they be said to benefit from it. It is not merely the promise that saves, but the fulfillment of the promise - Jesus Christ and "No-one can come to the Father but through me". As the hymn goes "Ancient rites have long departed; newer rites of grave prevail".
"They got it first, didn't they? We needed Jesus to know God but they knew God firsthand. They even knew his Name before anyone else knew it. But God gave us another chance in Jesus to be saved."
Of course those that came before us received the promise before us, but all mankind was the subject of the promise made to the Jews, fulfilled in Jesus Christ and then through the Church extended to all peoples.
Jesus is the image of the unseen God. No one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son wishes to reveal Him. If Jesus is God himself (I hope you believe that!), then those that reject Jesus, or do not know him, do not know God, and reject his self-revelation.
This bit: "But God gave us another chance in Jesus to be saved" is a worry. Surely, as a professed Catholic person, you are aware of Acts 4:12
" 11 This Jesus[e] is
‘the stone that was rejected by you, the builders;
it has become the cornerstone.’[f]
12 There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among mortals by which we must be saved.”
No other name under heaven given among mortals.....
"Jews did not need that other chance because they had the first one, the original promise. "
This is an un-Catholic statement and you seriously need to consult the teachings of the Catholic Church.
"They never refused to acknowledge God."
This is self-evidently wrong, but only if you acknowledge that Jesus Christ, "the stone the builders rejected" is God.
"So we need to learn from them and follow their path that will lead us to God."
Again this is seriously mistaken and not Catholic. Jesus is the path, the "way". We do not need to learn to follow the path of the Jews, for we have the path already in Him. We should seek to deepen our faith in Jesus, by understanding the magnitude of the Promise made to the Jews, understanding how the right hand of God established salvation through Jesus Christ and realising the connection of ancient events to our own lives. But we are not to become Jews in all but name, nor to imitate their insufficient practises.
to be cont.
cont.
Delete"What is important is the attitude of submission to God's will through His chosen people."
Did the Jewish people submit to God when they rejected Jesus? Many believed in Jesus and became Christian. Many did not.
"Our Christian faith opened up for us the same way the Jews had from the beginning."
No, no, no. The Jews were promised the way of salvation, and this was delivered to them through Jesus, but the path to salvation was closed to them, and to all until He arrived, lived, suffered, died and was resurrected.
"He sent Jesus His Son to us to make up what we had missed when we were still pagan idolaters."
Although I struggle against selfishness and sin, I have never been a pagan idolater. If you mean that many people were pagan idolaters at the time of the birth and development of the israelites, I agree with you. But the promise made to Abraham was fulfilled in Jesus through Mary and is made available to all people.
Yes, I agree we should convert every moment and turn back to God. We should repent of our sins and celebrate God's forgiveness, unto salvation. but I assure you, that if anyone is saved, be they Christian, Jew or neither, they are saved through Jesus Christ and none other.
I am deeply disturbed if this is truly what you are taught in the NCW. I hope that you have come to these erroneous views on your won and that there is no obstacle to you departing from them. I will pray for you.
Dear Anonymous at 4:49 pm,
DeleteFirst of all, the Jewish menorah is also used by the Eastern Catholics, and that is accepted by the Holy See. The Eastern Catholics are part of the Catholic Church. Therefore, the use of the menorah is not a different belief from the Catholic Church, who also use Jewish symbols and traditions.
Secondly, the fact that we accept Jesus Christ and recognize the Holy Trinity (God's true nature) does not make us Jews. The Jews worship the one true God, and they knew God before we did. The Jews have always worshiped the one true God. They just do not know God's nature the way we do.
However, this does not mean that the Church should ignore her Jewish roots and heritage. The Jews are our brothers in Israel. We both worship the same God.
What??? To worship the one true God, one must know his nature. The Holy Trinity is the mystery of one God in THREE divine persons. If one rejects even one of the THREE persons, then they reject the "one true God". So for you to say that we worship the same God as the Jews, who don't believe that Jesus is God (the second person of the blessed Trinity) is totally false!!! It would be interesting for you to ask a Jew that question. Do you believe that Jesus is God? Be careful what you say. You're making the NCW look bad!
DeleteDear Claire,
DeleteA person cannot reject something they do not know or are ignorant of. The Jews worship the SAME God as the Christians, but the Jews are ignorant of God's nature. The Jews have always worshiped the One True God, but they are ignorant of His nature. They do not know that He is actually three persons in one God. Being ignorant does not mean they reject Him.
As a matter of fact, Abraham, Isaac, Moses, and many of the Old Testament prophets did not know Jesus at all, but they are NOT condemned to Hell. Although they did not know Jesus, they knew and worshipped the One True God. Abraham, Isaac, Moses and many of the Old Testament prophets did not know Jesus and therefore could not reject Him. To reject someone, one must first know that person.
The Jews today believe in the Messiah, but they are unaware that He already came more than 2000 years ago. The Holy Bible tells us that the Pharisees tricked the Jewish people into believing that the Apostles stole Jesus' body from the tomb (See Matthew 28:11-15). It was the Pharisees who led the Jewish people astray. It is now up to us to set the record straight.
Dear Diana, why do we need to set the record straight, if as Ernie says, the Jews don't need Jesus for salvation? Ernie quite clearly claims (and it is assumed this is what is taught in the NCW) that the Jews knew God before us and have an alternative path to salvation. Apparently, according to Ernie (and once again, presumably yourself , Kiko and other NCW members) Jesus came to us, and is necessary for us, because we were "pagan idolators". But the Jews don't need Jesus because they were never pagan idolators?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:28 am,
DeleteChrist called us to evangelize to everyone including the Jews who do not know Jesus as God's Son. We are not Protestants who believe that all you need is to accept Jesus as your savior and then you are saved once and for all. It does not work that way. Salvation is much more than saying "I believe in God" because anyone can say that they believe in God, but do not do God's will. Therefore, everyone needs God's grace including the Jews. As St. Paul stated:
1 Corinthians 9:20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
When St. Paul went to Rome, he even went to see the Jews first. He did not see the Christian converts until after he saw the Jews in Rome first (See Acts 28:16-17). The Gospel of Matthew was actually written more for the Jewish people. It was even believed that this Gospel was originally written in Hebrew and later translated to Greek. In the Gospel, St. Matthew traced the lineage of Jesus to Abraham to try and convince the Jewish people that Jesus was their long-awaited Messiah.
As you know, St. Luke was a companion of St. Paul who was the Apostle of the Gentiles. Luke's Gospel traced Jesus' lineage to Adam, rather than to Abraham. Luke's Gospel was for the Gentile converts, which is why Jesus' lineage was traced all the way to Adam. The Neocatechumenal Way is well known to have a close relationship with the Jewish people, but one cannot win converts by demanding that we are right and they are wrong in regards to God's nature. You can win converts through love.
It's interesting how there's this desire to speak of our Jewish roots when the "real" Jews want no connection at all to us Christians. Here's a paragraph from a site "What Jews Believe":
ReplyDelete"Christian missionaries, including 'Jews' For Jesus, Messianic 'Jews,' and 'Hebrew' Christians, will go to amazing lengths to get even one real Jew to convert. They will claim that, since they can now find Christian symbolism in a Jewish ritual, this proves that Christianity developed as a natural outgrowth of Judaism, that Judaism was the source of Christian theology, and that the Jews are too stubborn to see how Christian theology is what Gd wanted to lead them to in the first place. "
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation10.html
Dear Claire,
DeleteI think that many Jews are willing to dialogue with Christians. And when we dialogue with them, the idea is not to force them to convert to our faith as the evangelical Protestant Christians have been doing. We are not there to tell them that they are going to Hell if they do not believe in Christ. It is not our place to judge who goes to Hell and who is saved. A dialogue between Jews and Christians must take place so that the two can come to a peaceful understanding. On the other hand, I have found that many Muslims are not yet ready for dialogue.
Thankyou Claire, that was very informative.
DeleteThis part:
"One might ask, 'But weren't the first Christians actually Jews?' Yes, but this is irrelevant. The first Protestants were Roman Catholics. Martin Luther was a Roman Catholic Priest. The Roman Catholics do not consider Protestant Christianity to be merely another form of Catholicism.
If you read the Apocryphal Book of I Maccabees, you will see that the first person killed in the Maccabee rebellion was a Jew. He was willing to go ahead and sacrifice a pig to Zeus, which Mattathias had refused to do. Obviously, he had to have been a very secular, assimilated Jew. Had he survived Mattathias' attack, and later formed a religion that was dedicated to the worship of Zeus and Zeus' half-human sons, would that make his newly formed faith just another form of Judaism? Would that mean that his new faith had 'Jewish Roots' since the founder of this faith was originally a Jew?"
Dear Anonymous at 3:34 pm,
DeleteJudaism today is split into different forms, and each of them come from Judaism. The Protestants are not Catholics, but they are indeed part of Christianity just as the Orthodox are also part of Christianity. And Christianity has her roots in Judaism.