Now that the annual catechesis is taking place in some parishes, a few people are complaining that a lay person does not have the right to get up and preach during the homily. The NCW has been telling them that they have the permission of the Archbishop. Yet, they feel that the Archbishop is wrong. According to Canon Law 766, a lay person can be permitted to preach in a church or oratory as long as they have the permission of the Bishop. Of course, the homily is always reserved for the priest, but what the NCW is doing during the Mass is NOT a violation. They have the permission of the Archbishop as well as the parish priest.
The brothers who are preaching are giving their testimonies. They are not giving a homily, which is reserved for the priest alone. Also, as I mentioned...they have the permission of the Archbishop and the parish priest. Tim Rohr is not the Bishop (although I would not be surprised to find that he would love to be the Bishop). The Archbishop is not violating any laws in giving his permission for allowing a layperson to speak their testimonies in the Church. Tim Rohr is the one who is in violation for he has no right to tell the Archbishop what to do.
Can. 765 Preaching to religious in their churches or oratories requires the permission of the superior competent according to the norm of theconstitutions.
The brothers who are preaching are giving their testimonies. They are not giving a homily, which is reserved for the priest alone. Also, as I mentioned...they have the permission of the Archbishop and the parish priest. Tim Rohr is not the Bishop (although I would not be surprised to find that he would love to be the Bishop). The Archbishop is not violating any laws in giving his permission for allowing a layperson to speak their testimonies in the Church. Tim Rohr is the one who is in violation for he has no right to tell the Archbishop what to do.
Can. 765 Preaching to religious in their churches or oratories requires the permission of the superior competent according to the norm of theconstitutions.
Can. 766 Lay persons can be permitted to preach in a church or oratory, if necessity requires it in certain circumstances or it seems advantageous inparticular cases, according to the prescripts of the conference of bishops and without prejudice to ⇒ can. 767, §1.
Can. 767 §1. Among the forms of preaching, the homily, which is part of the liturgy itself and is reserved to a priest or deacon, is preeminent; in thehomily the mysteries of faith and the norms of Christian life are to be explained from the sacred text during the course of the liturgical year.
According to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (the bold is mine):
On November 14, 2001, the Latin Church members of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops approved complementary legislation for canon 766 of the Code of Canon Law for the dioceses of the Latin Church of the United States.
The action was granted recognitio by the Congregation for Bishops in accord with article 82 of the Apostolic Constitution Pastor Bonus and issued by decree of the Congregation for Bishops signed by His Eminence Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, Prefect, and His Excellency Most Reverend Franciscus Monterisi, Secretary, and dated November 27, 2001.
Complementary Norm: Preaching the Word of God is among the principal duties of those who have received the sacrament of orders (cc. 762-764). The lay faithful can be called to cooperate in the exercise of the Ministry of the Word (c. 759). In accord with canon 766 the National Conference of Catholic Bishops hereby decrees that the lay faithful may be permitted to exercise this ministry in churches and oratories, with due regard for the following provisions:
If necessity requires it in certain circumstances or it seems useful in particular cases, the diocesan bishop can admit lay faithful to preach, to offer spiritual conferences or give instructions in churches, oratories or other sacred places within his diocese, when he judges it to be to the spiritual advantage of the faithful.
http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/canon-law/complementary-norms/canon-766-lay-preaching.cfm
So, who is Tim Rohr to tell the Archbishop what he can and cannot do? Is he the Pope?? It is not the NCW leadership who is telling the Archbishop what to do. It had always been Tim doing that.
During the KUAM newstalk today, a parishioner came on and said that he was upset with Father Alberto because a layperson was giving his/her testimony during the homily. Father Alberto already told this parishioner that they have the permission of the Archbishop. This parishioner insisted that the Archbishop was wrong and was in violation, and Father Alberto walked away.
According to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (the bold is mine):
On November 14, 2001, the Latin Church members of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops approved complementary legislation for canon 766 of the Code of Canon Law for the dioceses of the Latin Church of the United States.
The action was granted recognitio by the Congregation for Bishops in accord with article 82 of the Apostolic Constitution Pastor Bonus and issued by decree of the Congregation for Bishops signed by His Eminence Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, Prefect, and His Excellency Most Reverend Franciscus Monterisi, Secretary, and dated November 27, 2001.
Complementary Norm: Preaching the Word of God is among the principal duties of those who have received the sacrament of orders (cc. 762-764). The lay faithful can be called to cooperate in the exercise of the Ministry of the Word (c. 759). In accord with canon 766 the National Conference of Catholic Bishops hereby decrees that the lay faithful may be permitted to exercise this ministry in churches and oratories, with due regard for the following provisions:
If necessity requires it in certain circumstances or it seems useful in particular cases, the diocesan bishop can admit lay faithful to preach, to offer spiritual conferences or give instructions in churches, oratories or other sacred places within his diocese, when he judges it to be to the spiritual advantage of the faithful.
http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/canon-law/complementary-norms/canon-766-lay-preaching.cfm
So, who is Tim Rohr to tell the Archbishop what he can and cannot do? Is he the Pope?? It is not the NCW leadership who is telling the Archbishop what to do. It had always been Tim doing that.
During the KUAM newstalk today, a parishioner came on and said that he was upset with Father Alberto because a layperson was giving his/her testimony during the homily. Father Alberto already told this parishioner that they have the permission of the Archbishop. This parishioner insisted that the Archbishop was wrong and was in violation, and Father Alberto walked away.
Perhaps, in the spirit of harmony and compromise, the testimonials can be reserved for after the final blessing. That way the layperson can still share his/her testimony, and those who are not interested can leave quietly since the Mass is over, while those who are interested or who want to hear the person's message can stay if they want. Everyone wins and gets what they want.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:03 pm,
DeleteAnd who are you to dictate when and where the testimony should be given? Are you the Archbishop? The Shepherd is not the one to follow the sheep. It is the sheep who has to follow the Shepherd.
Diana I am sorry, but if you keep pressing that you want to do what the ncw thinks is best only, you are not trying to foster reconciliation for the church in Guam after all. Firstly, the Archbishop is not infallible like the pope so yes people can stand their ground and ask and say their opinion on something if they think it is not the best method of doing things. It is then up to the archbishop to foster peace in his diocese, something which is certainly lacking from Guam at the moment as I read. Secondly, if you really want to bring Jesus, God, faith back to these people (as the ncw of course are supposed to do) how come did you not see yet that it is the cause of division. Be it good or bad, the ncw is the source of division in Guam. The people (and a lot of people apparently not just Tim Rohr, which should already be enough proof to you and the ncw leaders that this is more than just a greedy person or just 'the devil's work' as the ncw often calls persons or situation which do not agree with its side) do not want your help. So rather than keep pushing and pushing only causing more division and truly a worldwide scandal to the Catholic Church because BOTH SIDES are showing how divided the Catholic Church truly is, neither side is behaving like a Catholic is supposed to. Loving Jesus is much more than adhering to rules, be it the ncw, be it traditional, it is living on the example of Jesus Christ and again I am sorry to say none of you are doing that. You are just waiting for the Pope to tell one side or the other to shut up, like children needing a mother to shout at them. So please, and this counts to the ncw side mostly, at least if you are going to stay giving testimonies during homily time (i dont care when personally) or in the squares in front of churches, at least give a good example by living a good life. I do not wish any of you to answer to this comment but just reflect on where this started from from the beginning each one of you entered the ncw, and each one of the non neo catholics how you have maybe taken it too far now. And just speak between you for the sake of the church.
DeleteSounds more like a spirit of 'disharmony' and 'non-compromise' if they rudely leave the mass before the final blessing and dismissal. Who said we have to please everybody to the point that we end up saying nothing? Christianity is not about compromise, its about repentance. You are either for or against Jesus, 'he who is not with me scatters'.
DeleteAAA is leading his flock into wolf territory, you go ahead and follow him.
DeleteHey Keith, didn't u post this exact same thing in JW?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 5:10 am,
DeleteDo you have anything constructive you want to say about Canon Law 766 other than "wolf territory" that is uncalled for and makes absolutely no sense?
Yes i did anonymous, because i wanted both sides how serious the situation has become and scandalous for our Church, and what i think should be done
DeleteKeith - could you get to your point when raising your objective instead of circling around it. If you want to be a writer, write a book. Please get to the point, I'm not impress with you long winded approach and what is the sake of your argument really is.
DeleteYea I don't understand what ur point is. It sounds like u r saying that the NCW should go away or not evangeliza or keep silent. We didn't start this. Rohr started this because he wanted to defend Benavente. The NCW is the scapegoat for his corruption.
DeleteAnon 10:16 AM I agree, we as a community were attack and ridicule for no reason.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:16 am,
DeleteI agree. This whole fiasco started with Father Paul. Nowhere in the Archbishop's letter is the NCW mentioned as the reason for removing Father Paul. It was Father Paul who FIRST brought up the NCW when he was interviewed by Patty Arroyo. It was Father Paul who claimed that he was being removed by the Archbishop because the NCW wanted to be in Santa Barbara Church, but nowhere in the Archbishop's letter did it mention that. Father Paul was the FIRST one who brought up the NCW and used the NCW as a scapegoat for his disobedience. By mentioning the NCW, it took the focus away from Joseph Lastimosa......which was the reason for Father Paul's removal.
SUSANA J. JAYASURIYA, you are the next contestant in THE PRICE (of your soul) IS RIGHT! Come on down!
DeleteNo, seriously Diana, you are being called out in Junglewatch.
My question is: Why did the Archbishop remove Fr. Paul from Santa Barbara? At first, I thought the Archbishop just found out that Mr. Lastimosa was working at Santa Barbara and Fr. Paul fail to obey the Archbishop's instructions. However, court documents reflect that the Archbishop signed Mr. Lastimosa's probation agreement for him to perform community service at Santa Barbara. Did Mr. Rohr present a fake document?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:18 am,
DeleteThe Archbishop can have Mr. Lastimoza remove at any time AFTER his probation agreement was fulfilled. Therefore, when the Archbishop tells Father Paul to remove Mr. Lastimoza in 2011, then he should be removed.
Anon 11:18AM it's simple, he was told,he was warn and he disobeyed.
DeleteFr Paul did terminate his employment. So AAA wanted him Lastimoza Removed because he was a danger? Come on Diana, stop it please. It would be more questionable at the start of his probation, rather than after soooo many years that he has proven himself. Why do you defend actions that go against God charity. Obviously your loyalty is to man (AAA/Kiko) and not to God. God expects his people to stand up against those who hurt others. You need to stop defending a man who hides behind a cloth. You need to stop mocking and chastising those who defend the faith. May God have mercy on you.
DeleteI understand the disobeying portion of Fr. Paul's action or inaction. I agree with anyone disobeying the boss is subject to disciplinary actions. However, if the reason for Mr. Lastimosa's removal is the potential endangerment to the community or children nearby, then why did they let him work there in the first place. Years have gone by and it was ok to put our kids in harms way. Now, it's not ok. I don't get it. So therefore, I believe anyone who is placed in this situation has the right to inquire. Good job anyway for protecting our children.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:50 pm,
DeleteAt the time when Lastimosa was serving community service at the Santa Barbara Church, was the Archbishop aware of the nature of his crime? I do not know the answer to this question. It is possible that he probably did not know. I really cannot answer that question.
However, in 2011, the Archbishop did say that it was brought to his attention that Lastimosa was on the sex offender list. It was not even known that Lastimosa was a convicted murderer until David Mills wrote to the PDN. In fact, even I was not aware that he murdered anyone.
Dear Anonymous at 12:59 pm,
DeleteFrom what I understand, Father Paul terminated the paycheck, but he did not terminate the duties that came with that paycheck. In other words, Lastimosa still had keys to the facilities and did the same job he did, but as a volunteer worker with official standings because he officially was able to purchase supplies for the Church.
"a volunteer worker with official standings"
DeleteWhat on earth does that mean? The other day my parish priest asked me to pick up some candles, which I paid for at the time and was later reimbursed. Does that mean I am an "official volunteer"? What absolute nonsense you speak.
Thanks for the opinion but if I wanted to be a writer I'd go write a book somewhere else. I'm Not, I am just trying to make people here reflect and think about what they are doing. I'm not here to impose my thoughts on anyone. Our life is not about rules only. Make up your own mind and decide for yourself what should be done.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 4:08 pm,
DeleteIt means that the Church recognized you as an official worker for the Parish and not a volunteer. Official workers have the keys to the facilities they work in. Lastimosa was caught with keys in his possession.....keys to Church facilities. That is one of the things the investigation found. Father Paul was told to terminate his employment. A termination of employment does not only mean to remove his paycheck, but also the duties that comes with that paycheck.
Because Father Paul was already told by the Archbishop to remove Lastimosa, the prudent thing to do was to keep Lastimosa from appearing as though he was still in a "working" capacity with the Church. In other words, one cannot say, "Oh, I know the Archbishop does not want you to work for me.....but that's okay, there's a way around that. Just go ahead and keep the keys, and we'll just say you work as a volunteer in case the Archbishop asks."
Again, that is nonsense. I have a set of keys for the parish church for cleaning the church and preparing the flowers. Am I an "official volunteer"?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:33 am,
DeleteThat makes you an "official" worker recognized by the parish. If you look at this weblink below of Santa Barbara Church, which has not been updated since April 2013, you will find Joseph Lastimoza listed as "Director of Facilities Management."
http://www.thecatholicdirectory.com/directory.cfm?fuseaction=display_site_info&siteid=100076
This is a website of Santa Barbara Church, which has not been updated SINCE 2013. Lastimoza was supposed to be fired in 2011, but he still has an "official" title and position in the Church. The only thing that Father Paul did was took away his paycheck, but not the position that came with that paycheck. This is why he was found to be in disobedience. Termination of employment means your paycheck, position, title, and everything that came with that paycheck is removed including the keys that the person has.
Wow. Evidently Gofigan did not listen. Now you know why he should be removed.
DeleteExactly, now we know why Gofigan is removed - because he kept Mr. Lastimosa on as an official volunteer even after the Archbishop gave his instructions. He found a loophole and tried to be creative to keep him working at Santa Barbara. The facts are there and people should not question the Archbishops action against Gofigan. CASE CLOSE. But, now we know why people are against the Archbishop - because the reason for his removal is inconsistent and questionable. The jurors (people) will continue to question the Archbishop's inconsistency. Now, they are looking at every decision and actions that he makes. Diana is the defender for the Archbishop and Junglewatch is the prosecutor. Our people will act as the jurors...
DeleteIf this Santa Barbara website had stated that it was updated in 2010, then Mr. Lastimoza's name would still be there because he was terminated in 2011....but the website was updated in 2013.
DeleteDear Diana,
DeleteWhy in heavens do you still continue to crucify Mr. Laztimosa? He has paid his debt to society. What he has done is between and the Good Lord on the Last Judgement day! Lay off the man! Are your being Christian like!
Dear Anonymous at 6:52 pm,
DeleteHow am I crucifying him??? I am not calling him any bad names.
Crucifying does not necessarily entail name calling! You seem to gloat over using his name on your post! Let it go! Find it in your heart to allow the man to live in peace.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:15 pm,
DeleteYou are incorrect. I am not gloating. I am simply stating a fact. Mr. Lastimoza's name is on the Santa Babara website which was last updated in April 2013. It has him listed as "Director of Facilities Management."
And what about the NCW website that doesn't have the approved statutes?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:48 pm,
DeleteThe Statutes is in their website, but you have to download it.
www.camminoneocatecumenale.it/.../en_English%20Statutes%202002.pdf
I read somewhere in one of the liturgy pamphlets at our parish that the bishop is the head of the liturgy in the diocese, that he has the fiduciary and highest authority in the diocese to maintain and moderate the liturgy. So, if that is true and if he gives permission to ANY lay person to give a reflection during the mass, then who are we to go against the High Priest of our Church?
ReplyDeleteThe problem here in this island is what we have too many wanna-be 'high priests' and 'high priestesses' running around pretending they now everything about the mass when in fact they know little or nothing. I happen to know the person who confronted Fr. Alberto and all I can say is, 'of course, the usual suspect'.
It is obvious that there is a concerted and an ingenious strategy to discredit Archbishop Apuron. But who is orchestrating all this campaign against Archbishop Apuron? Who is the leader? Who is the mind of this devilish plan?
ReplyDeleteThe spokespersons are Tim Rohr, Chuuk White and Patty Arroyo. They have strong links within the PDN in the person of Gaynor Dumat el Deleno. And they are friends of Archbishop Krebs.
What is their common link? It is obvious. It is Father ERIC FORBES. They are Latin mass lovers. They frequent the friary up in Agana Heights. They belong to the Catholic Evidence Guild. Patty has a son who is a Capuchin student.
Father ERIC FORBES was seen dining with Archbishop Krebs on January 6th when the latter was here for the pastoral visit together with Archbishop Hon. A horrible gaffe of diplomacy on the part of Krebs.
Father ERIC FORBES is keeping himself out of the limelight of publicity and working behind the scenes orchestrating the downfall of Apuron, perhaps in the hope of taking his place.
Come out of darkness to live in the Light!
That makes sense.
DeleteTim Rohr and Chuuk White only attend the masses up at the Friary. They can careless about what happens.
DeleteFather Blockley attends daily Latin mass
Then the sheep shall walk out (with their money).
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 12:44 am,
DeleteGo ahead and walk out with your money since you value money more than God's Church. It was never your money that built the Church anyway! It was Christ who built the Church so you can keep your god "Money" with you.
ROHR Nation with CCOG equate money,money, money! The FCA and Rohr made an attempt to pull a fast one to cash in attempting to sell RMS. 57MIL, clear MSgnr Benavente debts and continue his travel in Manila and live lavishly, when Benavente was seminarian and while working at Santa Barbara he always love to live lavishly. There is nothing wrong with this but when you get caught with your hands in the HUGE cookie jar, just come out and admit it.
DeleteOk then Diana, let's see anything get done without money. God inspires people to do good things with their money. The problem is that everyone is starting to realize that donating to this archdiocese is not a good thing because of the NCW INFLUENCE. god has opened our eyes to the evil within.
DeleteThen let every NCW member give up every last cent that they have, quit their job or close their businesses. God will provide right? Don't forget that Satan also rewards those who do his dirty work. Oops, just told revealed who is providing for the NCW.
DeleteThen let every NCW member give up every last cent that they have, quit their job or close their businesses. God will provide right? Don't forget that Satan also rewards those who do his dirty work. Oops, just told revealed who is providing for the NCW.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:11 am,
DeleteThe fact is some mission families and itinerants have given up their jobs, and they are not starving or living homeless. God provides. Do you believe that God provides or not? Which is it?
AnonymousJanuary 27, 2015 at 11:11 AM - I can't help and sit back and comment to your ignorance. The mission family came here giving up their livelihood such as jobs,home and businesses etc. If you find that difficult that is true. A local family here went to China to announce the GOOD NEWS(Jesus Christ). SO before you speculate, know the facts.
DeleteMany of the itenerants, mission families have become 'free loaders' at the expense of the poor.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 3:05 pm,
DeleteHow are they at the expense of the poor when they are out working in the mission? Would you say that Mother Teresa who gave up everything was a "free loader?"
Anon 3:05 - they said the same thing about Jesus: 'He came eating and drinking and they said he was a drunkard and a glutton'.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:06 am,
DeleteNot everyone agrees with you. Tim Rohr and his followers are very few.....loud, but few in numbers.
@ Dian 12:50,
DeleteYes God provides, but again it's not that simple, because if it was that simple then no one on Earth would be starving, abused or neglected. It's just not that simple, but you folks simplify it to your little world. Again my previous comment was to have every (not some like you said) NCW member quit their source of income and then see what happens. Truth is that you need your members to make money to support those on your heresy missions.
As far as free loading and Mother Teresa, she didn't abuse and take advantage of those she was helping. Can you honestly say that the NCW pays for the use of facilities at the parishes, especially at the CB? No, not according to credible witnesses.
Also, some here point out that Tim is friends with Msngr James as if it is damning evidence that they are plotting to over throw AAA. AAA can only blame himself for all the harm he has done to this archdiocese. All the evidence is out their. Obviously, if any group is blind, it's not us who acknowledge the truth.
Diana as you say, God provides.
DeleteIf this is true, then God provided well for Msgr. Benavente
so all this talk should be about how well God provides for all
Do you believe that God provides or not? Which is it?
Dear Anonymous at 5:31 pm,
DeleteGod provides, but He does not cause people to sin. People have free will. Monsignor James gave himself money and provided free plots for his friend and family. That was Monsignor James choice to sin.
God provides, He does not cause people to sin.
DeleteDiana are you saying, Monsignor James 'sin', is in the acceptance.
It would be a sin not to accept what God provides.
Day after Day, I am in awe of God Blessing,
Who are we, to deny God in his glory....
Dear Anonymous at 8:51 am,
DeleteWhere in my post did I say that sin is acceptable? You only find it acceptable because you love your sins and make excuses for it. You want to believe that it was God who caused people to sin when it was people's choice to sin. Man has free will.
Funny after listening in K57 News Talk with Patty Arroyo and Rohr. He admit he can't sleep at night. Did you not ask for this ROHR?
ReplyDeleteYour worries sick and tired of this FIASCO. You must suffer alot. You fight the HOLY SPIRIT and you'll suffer. Does it occur to you, how the Archbishop got that close to speak to the Pope that close and speak to him about your dirty intention.
Weep all you want , the Holy Spirit will defeat your projections. Remember this Charism did not destroy you but the Holy Spirit is working against you.
right on !!!
DeleteWhat i don't understand with Msgnr Benavente is; why did he not say anything to stop the Jungle goon to stop? Is he not a shepherd? Is he not a man of GOD? Tim called him a good priest, what make him good? Sticking to his own click of people??????
ReplyDeleteAccording to Canon Law, it is not the individual Bishop that grants this permission, but rather the Bishops' Conference. However, and correct me if I am wrong, but, Guam does not fall under the USCCB.
ReplyDeleteTherefore what the USCCB might permit does not effect permission for Guam.
Dear Anonymous at 11:22 am,
DeleteCanon Law 766 applies to the Catholic Church, not to the USCCB. Whatever is already passed as CANON LAW is something that even Guam has to follow. You can find Canon Law 766 in the Vatican Website (See the Vatican weblink below):
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P2J.HTM
I think you misunderstand me Diana. Canon 766 says that lay people can be permitted to preach "according to the prescripts of the conference of bishops and without prejudice to ⇒ can. 767, §1"
DeleteAccording to the prescripts of the conference of bishops - in other words, not at the whim of the individual bishop. So, you quite rightly refer then to the Bishops Conference, but incorrectly to the USCCB, because Guam does not fall under the USCCB.
Anon 11:22, no such thing.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:14 pm,
DeleteDid you read my entire post. It also pointed out that Canon Law 759 gives us the same permission as Canon Law 766. According to Canon Law 759:
Canon 759 By virtue of baptism and confirmation, lay members of the Christian faithful are witnesses of the gospel message by word and the example of a Christian life; they can also be called upon to cooperate with the bishop and presbyters in the exercise of the ministry of the word.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P2I.HTM
According to what I quoted above:
Complementary Norm: Preaching the Word of God is among the principal duties of those who have received the sacrament of orders (cc. 762-764). The lay faithful can be called to cooperate in the exercise of the Ministry of the Word (c. 759). In accord with canon 766 the National Conference of Catholic Bishops hereby decrees that the lay faithful may be permitted to exercise this ministry in churches and oratories, with due regard for the following provisions:
"National Conference of Catholic Bishops hereby decrees ...."
DeleteSo, are you asserting that Guam falls under the auspices of the USCCB?
Dear Anonymous at 4:14 pm,
DeleteNo, I am asserting that Guam falls under the entire Canon Law 762-766. Canon 766 is not the only one saying that we can preach at the altar. So does Canon 759. Canon 759 falls under Title I: Ministry of the Divine Word. Canon 766 falls under Chapter 1: The Preaching of the Word of God.
DO you deliberately miss the point Diana? An individual Bishop is only free to permit this if the Bishops Conference to which he belongs has given that permission. I'm sure you get this because you referred to the statement by the USCCB in regards to the "complementary legislation" pertaining to Canon 766.
DeleteSo, does Guam come under the USCCB or not? Because if not, you have proven nothing.
Read what you wrote in bold: " If necessity requires it in certain circumstances or it seems useful in particular cases, the diocesan bishop can admit lay faithful to preach, to offer spiritual conferences or give instructions in churches, oratories or other sacred places within his diocese, when he judges it to be to the spiritual advantage of the faithful." TESTIMONIALS is not preaching, offering spiritual conferences or giving instructions. You may do these in a CHURCH, ORATORY or OTHER SACRED places with the bishop's diocese. No where does it say that you can do TESTIMONIALS during the Liturgy of the Mass. Preaching and giving a testimonial are not the same.
DeleteWhy testimonials during Mass? Shouldn't you be evangelizing people who aren't Catholic? Catholics evangelizing Catholics, how redundant! The people in Mass have already accepted the real "invitation to joy".
What is your main reason for defending the archbishop? Could it be because you know that when he's removed, replaced or disciplined, the NCW would lose their "golden goose'? Anyway, he's not an archbishop in the NCW, he's just " brother".
Dear Anonymous at 4:49 pm,
DeleteActually, it is you who deliberately misinterpret it. It clearly says that the Diocesan Bishop is the one to give permission, and they are to follow the guidelines set forth by the USCCB.....guidelines, which have already been established. If you are confused because I quoted the Canon Law in the USCCB website, then I can make it simple for you. Below is a website that explains only the Canon Law in regards to the Catholic Church. No mention is made about USCCB. According to the website:
"There are other kinds of preaching which don’t constitute a homily. In such situations, canon 766 applies. This canon asserts that with regard to non-homiletic preaching, the lay faithful may be allowed to preach in a church, if in certain circumstances it is necessary.
The Instruction quotes canon 766, but rightly notes that the wording of the canon makes clear that the laity have to have permission to do this by competent authority (in this case, the diocesan bishop):
http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2014/05/08/when-are-the-laity-permitted-to-preach/
Why should a Diocesan bishop not belonging to the USCCB "follow the guidelines set forth by the USCCB"? It makes no sense. The provisions of Canon 766 refer to the bishop's conference, but for Guam the bishops conference is not the USCCB, is it?
DeleteDiana.....please......please......find the answers to the anonymous Anonymous January 27, 2015 at 4:49 PM
Deletebefore churches....before the bible...before canon laws......even before the USCCB....God spoke to man through the word.
I doubt very much that any answer you provide will satisfy his own interpretation of the laws.
He is prepared ....ready to meet God as a lawyer.
JSB
AnonymousJanuary 27, 2015 at 7:48 PM
Deletewhy worry about who God is calling?
If you are assuming that all the people who are in church are saved, that assumption is your own....not Gods.
JSB
Dear Anonymous at 1:30 pm,
DeleteThe Diocesan Bishop follows the Canon Law of the Catholic Church.
To all these Wikipedia quoting self made canon lawyers out there (fyi: thats a joke), the announcements are not homilies, they are not preaching, they are... announcements. I have seen renew do it, I have seen couples for Christ doing it, why is there a prob if the NCW does it?
DeleteJP2 and Benedict and Francis believe that catholics need evangelizing. Oh and paul6 too. U wanna Prove them wrong?
DeleteSo, is CCOG still gonna insist on reinstating Benavente?
ReplyDeleteAfter all the corruption?
DeleteThe link you provided clearly states that preaching or testimonies are not to take place during the moment reserved for homilies. So yes I agree preaching can take place probably before the final blessing but not after the Gospel which is a common practice with the Archbishop and Fr. Alberto.
ReplyDeleteHere is the exact wording from the link you provided:
The diocesan bishop will determine the appropriate situations in accord with canon 772, §1. In providing for preaching by the lay faithful the diocesan bishop may never dispense from the norm which reserves the homily to the sacred ministers (c. 767, §1; cfr. Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of the Code of Canon Law, 26 May 1987, in AAS 79 [1987], 1249). Preaching by the lay faithful may not take place within the Celebration of the Eucharist at the moment reserved for the homily.
Diana....did you get the above comments posted by anon 7:51.....our canon lawyer Monsg and AAA knows this.....yet...they do not obey........
DeleteCCOG doesn't care for actual unity in the Church.
ReplyDeleteThat judgement you will have to answer for. Wow.
Deleteas the ccog...chatholics will answer for theirs
DeleteCCOG includes Mr. Untalan.
ReplyDeleteI sense the Jack and Jolene is Chuck White. You can parallel their comments.
ReplyDeleteDaer Diana, do you recall your post of 21 June 2014 wherein you "quoted" Msgr Arrieta in relation to the NCW reception of Communion? You quoted a supposed statement by him (from the NCW facebook and Wiki pages) whish included the following:
ReplyDelete"The faithful receive the precious body while standing, take seat and wait until all have received. Then the celebrant says 'Body of Christ, bring us everlasting life!' and the whole congregation consumes immediately after the priest consumes the host. The ecce Agnus Dei along with the Domine non sum dignus are typically recited but is sometimes omitted due to error on the part of the celebrant. Sharing the cup takes place afterward, individually, while the faithful are standing at their seats and a priest or Extraordinary minister of Holy Communion carries the chalice around."
It was pointed out to you at the time, although you firmly rejected the proposition, that Mgsr Arrieta did not actually say those words.
Well, it appears that despite your best efforts, the truth has started to prevail. I notice that the wiki page has been edited now and the offending paragraph is no longer included, nor attributed to Msgr Arrieta.
I would like to give you this opportunity to clear this up and admit that you were in error in your previous post of June 2014, and that in fact there has never been the sort of endorsement of this practice as you suggested in that post.
Dear Anonymous at 12:58 pm,
DeleteHere is my clearance.
Sometime in June 2014, I copied and pasted Wikipedia. It was stated in Wikipedia that in regards to receiving Holy Communion Wikipedia has found that Msgr Arrieta did not state the last statement in which the Catholic faithful sit down to consume the Body of Christ. Apparently, Wikipedia found the error and had it removed.
However, in 2008 when the changes were made I heard Father Pius state that we were to stand as we receive the Body of Christ and then sit down. After everyone has seated and the rest of the rite continues, then everyone consumes the Body of Christ with the priest while seated. I heard Father Pius say that this instruction came from Kiko who received the same instructions from the Pope.
This part is not in Wikipedia anymore... Wow!
DeleteAnd we should believe Fr. Pius's hearsay because?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 7:4 pm,
DeleteWhat reason would Father Pius and the rest of NCW catechists lie? Every NCW around the world celebrates Mass the same way. It is not just her in Guam. If you believe that Father Pius lied, then how do you explain the rest of the NCW in other countries who also celebrate the Mass the same way we do here in Guam?
The change was made in 2008. That was six years ago. Pope Benedict XVI was aware of how we celebrate Mass. If it was illegal, Kiko would have been excommunicated already for disobedience.
Meanwhile, Benavente has stolen thousands and thousands of the Lord's money and here we are arguing the point of the reception of communion whether it is either siting, kneeling or standing! Have we lost our bearings folks? We have a blatantly corrupt priest who has scandalized the faithful and were stuck on this minute point of the reception of communion?
DeleteThis benavente scandal has historic proportions. No wonder why poor Tim Rohr can't sleep at night. Rohr lost his chance to reap from the sale of Hotel Accion and is left with a free cemetery plot at Pigo.
Please Diana, can we move on to more relevant topics like the thousands of dollars swindled from the Archdiocese? And why some people (pastors too) removed the insert in last week's Umatuna.
Father Pius does not proclaim hearsay......you can disagree and that is fine.
ReplyDeletejust don't claim to know the difference.
J.S. Bautista
Gosh, Tim absolutely nailed you on this Canon 766 didn't he? I'd love to see how you would argue against that!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:11 pm,
DeleteSee my response in the following weblink below:
http://neocatechemunal.blogspot.com/2015/02/deception-from-jungle.html