Dear Deacon Steve Martinez,
Because you placed your email address in your comment, I cannot publish your comment. However, I copied and pasted your comment below and left out your email address.
Deacon Steve Martinez has left a new comment on your post "Open Dialogue???":
Dear Diana:
This is my second visit to your blog. I wish to advise you that you are seriously misguided in your "facts", I welcome the opportunity to meet with you and discuss face to face my comments on the Pope's message regarding dialogue. You may contact me at ___________ and we can meet at your convenience. I've nothing to fear...how about you?
Until then, have a Merry and Blessed Christmas.
Deacon Steve Martinez
YOU made this challenge "I've nothing to fear.....how about you?" This is the same challenge that the jungle always make as they call us "cowards" for remaining anonymous. You are now mimicking the rhetoric of the jungle.
There is a reason why I remain anonymous, and it has nothing to do with fear. I remain anonymous simply because I am not a fool. I have a job and family to protect. You are seriously misguided to think that we are not are being persecuted. It was the Archbishop whose tires were slashed. It is the Archbishop who feels the need for a bodyguard. It was Zoltan (a blogger who used his real name and walks in the Way) whose job was threatened by Tim Rohr because of his religious beliefs. Zoltan is a math professor and his religious beliefs has nothing to do with algebra or calculus. And it was Tim Rohr who offered a $500 reward for my identity. These are persecutions.
As for what happened to Monsignor James and Father Paul....those were NOT persecutions. Father Paul was removed from his position as pastor of Santa Barbara Church for disobedience. People lose their job everyday. That's life. Monsignor James was transferred to the Tamuning parish. Employees get transferred all the time in the Government of Guam. That's life. What happened to you also has nothing to do with persecution. You sided with a group of people whose goal is to remove the Archbishop from his position. If I did that to my boss, I would be fired too.
Those who hide are being persecuted while those who have the freedom to mock and criticize us using their real names are the persecutors. After all, it was the Jews who hid and took on false identities while the Nazis sought out the Jewish names.
You stated that you want to discuss with me face to face the Pope's message regarding dialogue???? Your true intent is to discover my identity, Deacon Steve.
A Merry Christmas to you too, Deacon.
Whoever owns this blog is a joke......people should stop wasting their time like what I'm doing now....giving this message to you.
ReplyDeleteYou are an impostor who has no integrity hiding behind a name....and afraid for your family?? And job??
Grow up.....if your a true believer then you should face and defend your faith head on.....leaving your money and family for Christ.....that's a true christian!
Alexander Hernandez
Dear Anonymous at 9:05 am,
DeleteA true believer gets caught and is then persecuted by the enemy. He does not come out deliberately just so he could get persecuted. A person who does that is only seeking fame for himself. And a true believer protects others from persecution.
Dear Diana, it is very true that JungleWatch published my name, phone number and office location with the intent to incite hateful action against a university professor. This endangered not only my work but also the personal safety of my students who regularly visit my office for consultation. It is no secret that UoG viewed JungleWatch's action as a savage act of hostility against university property that could have resulted in unacceptable violence on a campus location. Let me tell you, that the university will ensure the safety of both students and faculty under any circumstances and will make the necessary legal steps if further incitement or violence occurs.
DeleteNot to criticize a man's devotion or actions of Deacon Martinez but I believe one of the vows taken was one of obedience. Martinez may be struggling as to who exactly he should be obedient too.
ReplyDeleteTo be associated with chatholics of Guam clearly shows his battle with who he should be following.
As a member of the clergy he is called to serve; is he called to be Christ's hands...feet and mouth to the world or in this case, it appears that he is serving the hands, feet and mouth of t. rohr and his clan.
Diana, you should meet with Martinez....bring 10 other brothers and we will see Judas in the flesh.
So, you won't meet because you fear that your job and family may be impacted; you fear that your tyres may be slashed; your fear that you may be generally persecuted.
ReplyDeleteBut apparently your decsision to remain anonymous "has nothing to do with fear." Right
Dear Anonymous at 12:12 pm,
DeleteI will not meet him because I am not a fool. The deacon's desire is not to have an open dialogue with me about the Pope. He only wish to know my identity, and I am not going to give him that satisfaction. The Deacon is not sincere in having a serious meeting of reconciliation.
The first precept of the Neocatechumenal Way - "Judge thy neighbor"
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:58 pm,
DeleteWe all make judgments or are you saying that you do not judge at all. Are you also a sinner?
AnonymousDecember 25, 2014 at 7:58 PM
ReplyDeleteThe first precept of the Neocatechumenal Way - "Judge thy neighbor"
You do not know anything about the Neocatechumenal Way......so I cannot understand why you would even make a comment like this......for what it is worth......we cannot plead ignorance on judgment day
Please don't equate yourselves with the Jews. You are not being persecuted and you are nowhere near what they went through. If that's the case, then it could be viewed the other way. Your leaders could be compared to the Nazis of WWII and you are one of their soldiers persecuting those that don't want to follow the "way" or any of your "leaders" blindly. Even the Nazis didn't question or criticize their fuhrer because they knew what would happen to them. If Junglewatch's blogger can be out in the open about his identity, then why can't you do the same? I know you are going to comment about my "anonymous" post, but I am just following your "way". By the way, isn't your blogging going against your leaderships' instructions? I guess as long your are hiding.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 12:40 am,
DeleteI do not force anyone to join the Way; therefore, you are incorrect to compare our leaders to the Nazi leaders. We gave out an invitation. They have the free will to come or not. We did not force them to come nor did we force them to stay.
The Catholic Church also instructs us to always follow our leaders even if they give eccentric orders such as don't join this group or that group. According to Cardinal Arinze, in his book entitled "Letter To A Young Priest", he stated:
In extracts from the book published by L’Osservatore Romano, Cardinal Arinze says, “The obedience that the priest gives to the Holy Father, the bishop and his representatives is based on faith. Through this obedience, the priest gives God the possibility of making complete use of him in carrying out the mission of the Church. The purpose of obedience is not to diminish the role of the priest, or to treat him as inferior or keep him from adequate personal growth.”
Cardinal Arinze warned that priests “should not try to introduce a sort of secular democracy that is not in accord with the divine nature of the hierarchical institution of the Church. The virtue of humility is one thing, it’s another thing to seek to clericalize the laity or laicize the clergy. The Church has nothing to gain by this, and everything to lose with similar initiatives.”
The cardinal went on to note that priests should always obey their bishops, “even when in the worst of scenarios the bishop assigns a task that surpasses the capacity of the priest or could make him suffer or harm him. God will not cease to protect the priest who is obedient. The judgment of God with regard to the bishop is a different question!”
Even when this obedience implies adversities for the priest, “in the end God protects the priest who respects and obeys the Bishop with firm fidelity and nobility of character. The intervention of God can appear after months or even years, but it does finally come. Some saints were only done justice after death,” he added.
Cardinal Arinze? Isn't this the cardinal which Archbishop Apuron publicly questioned his credentials Diana?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:39 am,
DeleteHe is the one the Archbishop disagree with but went ahead and obeyed him anyway. But when it comes to you, YOU do not want to obey him when he says that priests should always be obedient to their Bishops.
It is quite apparent that you do not know the spiritual meaning of the word persecution...murder or kill. Spreading lies, misinformation and making false or untrue statements about a person is equal to killing the individual.
DeleteI do believe you exist, just as I believe that your responses clearly betrays you lack of understanding of the spiritual side of being.
Don't be afraid brother....a humble prayer and continuous dialogue with God work all the time.
Dear Diana -- Contrary to what you say, Archbishop Apuron did NOT obey him by allowing the NCW to say their mass illicitly.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:07 pm,
DeleteThe only ones who are saying that the Mass of the NCW is illicit are those who oppose the Way. The Archbishop already said that the way we do the Eucharist was approved by Rome.
You can not be persecuted cause you don't exist. Be proud, have courage and do not be afraid. Those martyrs and those that got persecuted for their faith did it and were remembered and rewarded.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 9:04 am,
DeleteThen why are you making this comment on a nonexistent blog?
In the context of conversation and "open dialogue", we have to know who wants to have dialogue with whom. Is this a request of dialogue between Deacon Martinez and the Archbishop? Or between the Concerned Catholics and the chancery leadership? Or perhaps between traditional Catholics and the Neocatechumenate on the island? It is absolutely not clear who exactly should have the dialogue with exactly whom.
ReplyDeleteLet me tell my opinion as someone who walks in the Way. A dialogue with the Archbishop and chancery leaders is not an issue of a blog. There are certain steps that ought to be made in order to build trust. It is impossible to have dialogue with savages whose only purpose is to provoke and create scandal. It is no secret that Tim Rohr, John Toves, etc. are considered savages who make accusations with zero evidence at hand. We exactly know what is the basic feature of JungleWatch: to spread gossip, hearsay and superstition. It is impossible to consider the Concerned Catholics as a body of the faithful of good intention unless they distance themselves from the savages of JungleWatch.
In regard with dialogue between traditional Catholics and the Neocatechumenate, again, I am sharing my point of view. We are proud of our Statutes and follow every letter, every instruction in it. We cannot accept any criticism that questions our faithfulness to the Statutes of the Neocatechumenal Way. In particular, we have explained many times that the manner we receive the Holy Host during Eucharist is in harmony with Church regulations. Questioning this over and over again is a clear sign of savage tactics and an intent of interfering with our faith life. Therefore we cannot have any dialogue with the proponents of this view. However, if Concerned Catholics express true intention, clearly distinguished from all savage attitudes, of knowing more about our practices, we are ready to introduce them into this new reality of Catholic faith life based on small communities of the devoted faithful.
I understand that there is a split inside the activists of the traditional Catholic way. On the one hand, there are the fundamentalist radicals who align themselves with the liberal media in order to make vicious attacks on the Catholic Church and its leaders on Guam. On the other hand, there are those who would like to make peace and an environment that is conducive of faith based activities, be it of traditional or of Neocatechumenate fashion. We do no have anything to say to the first group, but we may come to common terms with the second, based on mutual respect and understanding.
Let the Baby Jesus give us the grace we need to make progress in our daily lives and in our walking towards Him during the New Year.
"However, if Concerned Catholics express true intention, clearly distinguished from all savage attitudes, of knowing more about our practices, we are ready to introduce them into this new reality of Catholic faith life based on small communities of the devoted faithful."
DeleteSeriously Zoltan? The new reality of Catholic faith life is the NCW?
I would agree with you Zoltan if only the so called traditional Catholics were to be coalesced into a functional and collective voice.
ReplyDeleteAs much as we debunked the accusations and lies of rohr; chatholic of Guam..the whites and jw clan, the majority of Catholics on Guam will remain silent.
Dear Zoltan, you say "we have explained many times that the manner we receive the Holy Host during Eucharist is in harmony with Church regulations. Questioning this over and over again is a clear sign of savage tactics and an intent of interfering with our faith life."
ReplyDeleteWhat explanation have you given? The most we have been explained is that there was some sort of "secret unwritten (verbal) approval" given by the Holy See. When pushed for an explanation, this is the best the NCW can come up with. Even the Archbishop admitted that he was "told" that an approval existed, but even he did no know where to find it.
So, for the sake of peace and reconciliation, how about finally revealing this "approval"? If you can find it and produce it you would possibly help bring about an end to these squabbles. Rather than labelling fellow Catholics as this or that, simply show is the approval or give us a reference to it. If, however, you don't or can't produce it, you will remain merely "a loud gong or a clashing cymbal"
Dear Anonymous at 10:54 pm,
DeleteWhy not write a letter to the former Pope Benedict XVI since this came out from a private audience between the Pope and Kiko. Since when did Catholics become like Protestants who only trust the written letter and not the verbal instructions of their Church leaders. The Archbishop also had a private audience with Pope Francis, and he can tell what was said between them, but you still would not believe. Nevermind the fact that he was there to hear it.
So why do we have the GIRM? Why don't we just throw it out the window and just all go by verbal instructions of the church leaders, Diana?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 6:00 am,
DeleteI never implied that all written work should be thrown out. That is only your misinterpretation. The Catholic Church has always gone by BOTH oral tradition and written scripture.
As an example, the Archbishop recently had a private audience with the Pope. Things were said between them. Can you find a written record of the conversation??? If the Pope tells the Archbishop to do something in that private audience, he should obey. The problem is YOU do not know what was said in that meeting. You would be looking for written proof where there is none.
If you think that the Holy Father would give binding liturgical instructions to the Acrhbishop in a private conversation, you reveal yourself to be deluded.
DeleteWe are not concerned with "written scripture", but rather the official written instruction of the Holy See. There is no dispute as such over "scripture".
Everything pertaining to the liturgies of the Catholic Church is put in writing, and it is a nonsense to suggest otherwise.
"Why not write a letter to the former Pope Benedict XVI since this came out from a private audience between the Pope and Kiko."
Where did this story come from? Were you there Diana, to confirm that this instruction came froma private audience between the Pope and Kiko? We know that Pope Benedict publicly insisted that the NCW "follow faithfully" the liturgical books. What evidence is there that Pope Benedict provately contradicted himself on this?
10:54 pm, you had completely misunderstood it. We do not seek peace and reconciliation with savages. As I said those who interfere with our faith life by questioning our relation to our own Statutes are intellectual savages. They only want to bully, hurt and feel good about it. We are not into any kind of business with them.
DeleteThe Neocatechumenal Way has no obligation and no interest to explain our practices beyond the Statutes. If you are truly interested, read it for yourself. It is in plain English. But please do not ever open our Statutes with dirty hands, with false intents and fake attitude. The Holy Spirit will know and will block your mind, as we see the minds of the savages of the JungleWatch are blocked. We won't ever have "open dialogue" with them.
If you want to investigate the Way, please, get an official mandate from Vatican. Unless you are authorized by the Church, you have no business to interfere. Also, today is the last day I am responding to anonymous posters. Grow up and stop hiding behind your hypocrisy. At least choose an alias so that your views can be identified. Otherwise your utterances are like chaff, the wind blows them away and nobody will remember anymore.
However if you are honest, not on the surface only, but deep in your heart, then act on your honesty and reveal your true intent. Then we'll show you a path to the Lord though small faith communities. It is truly a gift for everyone, a new reality of the Catholic Church.
Dear 6:00 am, show me where GIRM disapproves our practices. Show us where is a violation of the rules and we'll listen. However, if you exaggerate with savage heart then your mind and heart will be blocked from understanding and you won't know anything. We have zero obligation and zero intention to have dialogue with savages.
DeleteEnforcing GIRM is not on the laity but on the official bodies of the Church. If you hit us with your false understanding of GIRM, then you only reveal your disrespect toward these official Catholic bodies. You want to steal their authority for yourself. This moral turpitude is not permitted and not tolerated. Please try to understand, until Vatican does not object the practices of the Way, you cannot judge these practices either. This is the end of story.
Let me repeat, if Concerned Catholics want to have an open dialogue with the Way, they must clearly distance themselves from the moral turpitude of anonymity and the savage attitude of JungleWatch. Cut them off or shut up.
diana;
ReplyDeletei took your advise and wrote to Pope Francis
i stated that the bishop and the (ncw) new catholic way on Guam are saying that you "Pope Francis" gave "Kiko" and the bishop of "Guam" verbal and written approval regarding receiving the sacred "Host" but the bishop is still looking for the written version....... Please send copies.
Dear Anonymous at 11:35 am,
DeleteI said to write to the former Pope Benedict XVI. He was the one who approved the Statutues and the Catechetical Directory of the Way. Nevertheless, I guess Pope Francis should be able to respond to your question.
Just to be clear, what exactly was allegedly approved in the secret meeting between the Pope and Kiko? Was it that the "neocatechumens" (and presbyter) were permitted to sit to consume Holy Communion; or was it permission for the priest to delay his own communion and for all to consume together?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 4:54 pm,
DeleteAccording to one news report I read, he and the Pope were discussing the way in how the NGW receives the Body of Christ. I will have to look up that news report, but it sometime before the Statutes were passed. After the Statutes were passes, I remember Father Pius instructing us on how we are to receive the Body of Christ. We are to receive the Body of Christ in our hand, then sit down and contemplate on His Body that we hold in our hand. Afterwards, we consume the Body of Christ together as an assembly with the priest. I remember Father Pius said that change came from Kiko who received the instruction from the Pope.
I'd be curious to see that "news report". Please post it once you find it. Still, its not very encouraging that you would choose to do something contrary to the teachind and continuous practise of the Church just because Ernie told you it was ok
Deletepope Francis seems lile an open guy. will he let it read the catechises?
DeleteAnswer me this have you even seen and read all the volumes of the NCW that supposedly exist? So how do you know? Because someone told you, who was told by someone, who was told by someone in the Curia, who heard it from the Pope? If it was never a problem and oral is all people needed then why seek the approval of the Vatican in writing which the NCW applied and asked for but didn't get many parts approved a few years ago? I thought verbal was good enough? Why is the doctrine of the NCW so secret?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 12:09 pm,
DeleteThe doctrine of the NCW is not secret. All you had to do is listen to the catechesis. The jungle also has a recording of the Beginning of the Year retreat. I'm sure that Tim listened to the recordings. The catechesis of the NCW is in the recordings, but so far, the only thing Tim had a beef about was the announcement about Japan (which is not a catechesis). If the catechesis of the Way is opposed to Church doctrine, then why hasn't he said anything about the catechesis in the recordings of the Beginning of the Year retreat? Our doctrines are not secret because they are always announced during the catechesis.