voice-of-faithSeptember 24, 2014 at 12:45 PM
I am not particularly surprised that you throw out my other questions. Let me just repeat. Could you please explain these 3 things from our conversation in the last couple of days:
1. What do you mean that Jesus was a Jew and also God? Is Jesus a Jewish God?
2. How was Isaac an "idol" to Abraham?
3. Why would Abraham think that Isaac could be resurrected after sacrificing him?
I hope you don't think my questions are offensive. These things came up at your blog. I am truly looking forward to your explanation. Thanks.
1. What do you mean that Jesus was a Jew and also God? Is Jesus a Jewish God?
2. How was Isaac an "idol" to Abraham?
3. Why would Abraham think that Isaac could be resurrected after sacrificing him?
I hope you don't think my questions are offensive. These things came up at your blog. I am truly looking forward to your explanation. Thanks.
1. Jesus is NOT a Jewish God. Jesus is God because we believe in the Holy Trinity...that there are three persons in one God. Jesus is the second person in the Holy Trinity. The Holy Trinity does not care about the ethnicity of a person. The Holy Bible says that God created man and woman. It never said that He created a caucasian man or an African man. Mankind is the only one who assigns ethnicity to each other. Only man looks at the color of a person's skin, which is the reason why we have ethnic cleansing, racial conflicts and discrimination of people of different races and ethnic background. Christ was a Jewish man, but He is a God of all people who has faith in Him. The Holy Bible traced Christ's lineage to Adam to show that he is one with the entire human race and not just to the Jewish people (See Luke 3:23-38). From one man and one woman came the entire race of human beings.
Jesus came down incarnated as a man. Christ (who is the second person in the Holy Trinity) has two natures - a human nature and a divine nature. The human nature is Jewish because he was raised in a Jewish home and practiced Jewish customs. The Catholic Church have always recognized that Christ was a Jew, so I do not know where you got the idea that Christ was a Christian. The Catholic Church also recognize Jesus as God, the second person in the Holy Trinity.
2. Children can become idols when parents love their children more and put them first before God. An idol is anything that one puts first before God. According to the Bible:
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Jesus is saying that if you love your son or daughter more than Him, then you are not worthy to be His disciple. Jesus is saying that you should love God more than your child. God should always come first even before your child. If Abraham loved Isaac more than God, then Isaac has become an idol.
3. Abraham not only believed in God, but also KNEW God. He knew Him well enough that God is capable of resurrecting his son Isaac if Isaac died. Abraham already saw that his wife Sarah was very old and had a dead womb and therefore could not give him a son. But it was God who made Sarah's womb alive so that she can give birth to Isaac. Abraham saw the miracle in this.
So, Abraham knew that God is also capable of giving life back to his son just as He gave life to his wife's dead womb. And God is indeed capable of resurrecting the dead just as He did with Lazarus. Abraham knew that God will either provide him with a lamb so he would not have to sacrifice his son Isaac (Genesis 22:7) or that God would resurrect his son from the dead. Either way, Abraham trusted God, which is why he is called "the father of faith."
The questions reveal that this guy needs catechism 101. He could go to the nearest catechesis and join a community... :)
ReplyDeleteDiana, how could Jesus be a Jew when His Father is in heaven?? You badly misunderstand something. Think about the blood of Jesus: it is half from God, half from Mary. It is true that Jesus was born to a Jewish woman, Mary. But how would this mean He is a Jew?! John the Baptists who began baptizing people with water was already a proto-Christian. Jesus corrected the teachings of John the Baptist to make it Christian. Christianity means following the teachings of Jesus Christ. That is why it is called Christianity. So Jesus is justly called a Christian, the very first one, the same way as Abraham is called a Jew.
ReplyDeleteYour concept of idol and idolatry is overly imposing! There are several areas of life and human existence, including your job, your profession, your family, you way of making money to support them, socializing, relating to other people, your hobbies, your entertainment, etc. and your spiritual life. When God condemns idolatry, He bans your spiritual life from distortion. Idolatry is what turns your spirituality away from God. That is why all spiritual activities and pagan rites that denied God were banned in the Old Testament. Idolatry is about your soul and your spiritual life. Therefore Isaac could not be an idol to Abraham in any sense. Do you have any Bible quote to support the opposite view you promote?
You are improvising when you say Abraham believed in resurrection. Please, support your claim! The fact is that Sadducees, a conservative branch of Judaism at the time of Jesus, did not believe in resurrection because there is not reference whatsoever to resurrection in the 5 books of Moses. Sadducees based their beliefs on Moses' books and that is why they rejected resurrection. Despite the fact that Pharisees believed in resurrection just like the early Christians, following Jesus' teaching, did.
Dear voice of faith,
DeleteNowhere in the Catholic Church does it teach that Jesus was a Christian. The Catholic Church has always recognized that Jesus was a Jew. If you do not believe me, then would you believe the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
CCC 423 We believe and confess that Jesus of Nazareth, born a Jew of a daughter of Israel at Bethlehem at the time of King Herod the Great and the emperor Caesar Augustus, a carpenter by trade, who died crucified in Jerusalem under the procurator Pontius Pilate during the reign of the emperor Tiberius, is the eternal Son of God made man. He 'came from God', 'descended from heaven', and 'came in the flesh'. For 'the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. . . And from his fullness have we all received, grace upon grace.
CCC 531 During the greater part of his life Jesus shared the condition of the vast majority of human beings: a daily life spent without evident greatness, a life of manual labor. His religious life was that of a Jew obedient to the law of God, a life in the community. From this whole period it is revealed to us that Jesus was "obedient" to his parents and that he "increased in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man."
Now, could you show me where the Church teaches that Jesus was a Christian? Even the Bible never called Jesus a Christian. The Holy Bible says that the first Christians were the disciples at Antioch (See Acts 11:26).
Voice of faith, please go back into the jungle and ask Tim Rohr whether Jesus was a Jew or a Christian, and see what he has to say about it. I'm sure that you would believe him more.
The rest of your post is not taught by the Catholic Church. Idolatry is anything that one puts first before God or anything that one loves more than God.
Voice of faith, the Pharisees (whom you say believe in the resurrection) were the ones who sat in the chair of Moses. Their teachings and beliefs were based on Moses.
Matthew 23:1-3 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
If Christ was a Jew, then are you saying that we have to revert back to the Jewish Tradition of worship?
DeleteDiana, I had some questions that you have not answered at all. Please, be fair and do not throw away my comments without publishing when I dare to contest your oversimplified points.
Delete1. You said that Jesus was a Jew. Where is this in the Bible? Where is this in the CCC? Jesus was born of Mary, a Jewish woman. But how would this make Jesus a Jew?
2. It was claimed in your blog that Isaac was an idol to Abraham. Where is it said in the Bible or the CCC that Isaac was an idol? An idol is a spiritual object replacing God. How could Isaac be a spiritual object to Abraham replacing God?
3. You told us that Abraham believed in resurrection. I had to question this! The Pharisees believed in resurrection. The disagreement between Jesus and the Pharisees was not on resurrection. However, the Sadducees did not believe in resurrection, because it is not included in Moses' books. Where did you find in the Bible or in the CCC that Abraham believed in resurrection?
I appreciate your honest effort to respond to this questions. Thanks.
DeleteDear voice of faith,
Only Protestants ask "where is it in the Bible" because their sole authority is the Bible. Catholics, on the other hand, has both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. The salvation of mankind was foretold since Genesis. God said to the serpent in the Garden of Eden, "I will put enmity between you and the woman." This was interpreted by the Church to mean that a Savior would be born. The Jews knew of this Messiah, and have been waiting for him.
You are also reading the Catechism wrong. The Catechism did not say a "Jewish woman." That is only you saying it. The Catechism says "Jesus of Nazareth, born a Jew of a daughter of Israel at Bethlehem". The other Catechism which you ignored stated, "His religious life was that of a Jew." In other words, Jesus' religious life was Jewish. It was not Christian. The word "Christian" did not exist at the time of Jesus. It existed until AFTER Christ ascended into Heaven. The word Christian means "a follower of Jesus Christ." How can Jesus be a follower of Himself????
I said in my blog, Abraham was tested to see if he loved Isaac more than God. According to the Holy Bible:
Genesis 22:12 Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”
As you can from the Holy Bible, the angel stopped Abraham from sacrificing his son Isaac because now it is known that Abraham loved God more than his son because he was willing to sacrifice his son. Of course, God already knew what is in Abraham's heart, but many times God tests us to show us what we sometimes do not know ourselves. Abraham realized that he loved God more.
It appears that there are two people who need to take Catechism 101.
ReplyDeleteI don't need Cat 101! You guys r the expert on Catechism teachings so you tell me. I go by what I learned by my parents and what was taught to me in a catholic school.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:24 a.m.,
DeleteI never went to Catholic school. My parents could not afford it. At any rate, to answer your question, the answer is no. Christ was a Jew, but that does NOT mean we revert back to the Jewish Tradition. We are the NEW Israel. When Jesus chose the 12 Apostles, He instituted the beginning of the New Israel with Peter as the Leader of the Apostles.
Diana's conclusion is that then Jesus was a Jew as opposed to a Christian this is what voice of faith says in the jungle
ReplyDeleteYes, because this is what Diana claims here as an official teaching of the Church. Wrong. Perhaps a teaching of the NeoCat, but not the Church! A very suspect teaching for that matter...
DeleteDear voice of faith,
DeleteWhy haven't you asked Tim Rohr whether Jesus was a Jew or a Christian? Go and ask him.