The duty of a priest is always to lead the flock to Jesus Christ. It is NOT to lead the flock to himself. The sheep should always love Christ and His Church. Well, it was discovered that as Monsignor James Benavente left, so did the staff. It was Monsignor James who was fired, not the staff.
In an apparent effort to paralyze Monsignor David Quitugua in his new assignment as Rector of the Cathedral and Director of the Cemeteries, there has been a quasi-total resignation of the staff at both of these two places. It was calculated that over 90% of the staff left. Thus, the question arises in my mind......were they serving the people who attend the Cathedral-Basilica or a priest, in this case, a Monsignor???
Obviously, they will accuse Monsignor David as they create an uproar if things do not go as smoothly as they expected. If in the bulletin, there is a mistake, the assault will be diverted to Monsignor David. If the air-conditioning breaks, the fault will be attributed to Monsignor David. If the Masses are not on time, it will be Monsignor's David's blunder, and so on.
But perhaps, it is better this way. Monsignor David can build a new team around him, without fear of being stabbed in the back.
It is HIS fault. He "advised AAA" to change Monsignor. Quitugua is a loner and his fellow priests don't care for him either. Many lay people don't care for boring uninspiring Quitugua and so they've moved on.
ReplyDeleteBesides- When you accused the Monsignor, you accused the dedicated staff and employes as well- you knew that right? You maligned their integrity too and accuse them of corruption and collusion.
No one wants to be pressured to lie, be fake, or side with the NCW, or be a part of a corrupted organization like Quitugua, Cristobal, and Apuron. I'd leave too.
Wait till you see the donations and collection drop.
I hope the NCW will come to the rescue.
Isn't there a fiesta in a few weeks? Hope that goes well.
Dear Anonymous at 7:58 a.m.,
DeleteWhen I volunteer my services to the Church, it was to serve God and His Church. If a new priest comes along, do you think I would stop volunteering at the Church??? Apparently, Monsignor James got his flock to follow him instead of Jesus Christ and His Church.
>Diana wrote: "Apparently, Monsignor James got his flock to follow him instead of Jesus Christ and His Church."
DeleteApparently, you're assuming several things are taking place.
1. That Monsignor James advised the staff to quit.
2. That the staff didn't leave on their own accord.
3. That Monsignor Quitugua himself didn't affect the decision of the staff to leave.
Lastly, you're assuming:
4. That the staff is not helping out in other areas.
Who knows, maybe the Archbishop wrote the staff letters praising them and then closed the letter with an ULTIMATUM to join the NCW or be forced to leave. If it can happen to priests...
Anon 7:58,
DeleteDIANA IS RIGHT!
No matter how you look at it or dissect the situation it all comes down to disobedience.
The staff leaving because Monsignor James left is really really sad! In fact, it's pathetic. Who exactly were those altar servers serving?! Oh and here that some get paid... Is this true?
Here's a fact: Many youth of the NCW will serve with Monsignor David, but altogether for GOD. They will not ask if we get paid to do it not will they say to them to leave the church if I leave! I don't care you out it! That is wrong!
Now everyone says they were "replaced" by NEOS? Maybe so...but obviously it's because they staff left!!!
WAKE UP!
When you have a feeling that you are constantly being watched and not trusted...this is also a sense a person has that it is a hint to turn in a resignation. Don't argue with me....remember what I said.....someone will go down in shame and your movement of a building a parallel church will also be tainted.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:58 am,
DeleteIf the Archbishop did write those so-called "ultimatum" letters you and I both know that it would already have been published in the jungle. Over 90 percent of the staff left, and the only logical reason is because of the firing of Monsignor James. Do you have another logical reason for the mass exodus?
Besides what 8:58 pointed out, it is customary when there is a "change of administration" as Fr. Adrian described it that the staff of the previous administration tender their resignations. The new administrator has the prerogative to invite those employees to remain and work with him. If Msgr. David C opted not to exercise that right, don't blame the staff for doing what is done in the public and private sectors during a change of administration. That's just how things are. It's not another conspiracy against Msgr. David C, it's just real life outside the church.
DeleteWhy don't you get it?
Dear anonymous 7:58 am: who said anything about 'corruption' or 'collusion'? Is there something you want to reveal?
Delete>Diana wrote:
Delete>"Apparently, Monsignor James got his flock to follow him instead of Jesus Christ and His Church."
>"...you and I both know that it (the ultimatum letters) would already have been published in the jungle."
The problem isn't that JungleWatch would have published it... the problem is that the Archbishop threatened priests with his ultimatum to join the NCW or be fired. One can imagine that the staff didn't want to work in that sort of environment.
To claim that that Monsignor James told his staff to quit is nothing more than unfounded speculation. It's gossip. Changes in leadership are usually accompanied by changes in staff. It happens all the time and it doesn't mean the staff is evil or against God. To say so is completely absurd!
Is there an eleventh commandment that I don't know about?
"Thou shall not quit your job if you don't like your new boss."
Dear Anonymous at 4:04 p.m.,
DeleteThe Archbishop took out Father Paul last year. Why did they continue to work in that sort of environment if that was the case? So, this post to you is gossip??? And what do you call the post in Junglewatch who falsely accused the NCW of hiding Father John in the seminary??? By the way, I'm still waiting for the confirmation flight of Father John.
>The Archbishop took out Father Paul last year. Why did they continue to work in that sort of environment if that was the case?
DeleteYou want me to answer on the behalf of others? Ask them for yourself. I'm not a mindreader! Unbelievable!!!
Besides, whatever they so does absolutely nothing to further your assertions that the "90%" staff who left are selfish and against God.
>"So, this post to you is gossip?"
Yes! Absolutely! You're judging them to be selfish and less Christian for resigning their posts. So yep, you're just gossiping at this point.
>"And what do you call the post in Junglewatch who falsely accused the NCW of hiding Father John in the seminary?"
If you want to fight Tim Rohr on JungleWatch, then do so. I'm not him. I don't control him. Respond to my posts and my assertions. If I were to randomly refer to what someone else said as a rebuttal to you, then there's no point in having a conversation in the first place. Is that your endgame, to further divide? To argue everything into the absurd?
Why do you always respond to any critique by quoting JungleWatch? Can't you come up with a rebuttal on your own without deflecting attention back to JungleWatch? I can't speak for anyone on JungleWatch - let them defend themselves. The burden of defending what's said there isn't mine. I'm commenting on what YOU... Diana... are saying.
And the best you can come up with is that you're waiting for a confirmation flight? What the heck does that have to do with the 90% former staffers you're judging as selfish and against God and the people?
UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Dear Anonymous at 5:21 p.m.,
DeleteHow is this post gossip when I said that over 90% of the staff at the Cathedral left? As I said, I can understand when 2 or 3 employees leave.......but over 90%????? Surely, anyone can see that something is fishy when over 90% of the staff leaves. You can call it a judgment all you want, but it is still very fishy to have over 90% leave.
If anything is gossip, it would be the jungle accusing us of hiding Father John in the Seminary. I am still waiting for the confirmation flight of Father John.
Those choices were made by those people not Monsignor James. Don't make further speculation about him that you can't back up.
ReplyDeleteAlso, did it occur to you that some were asked to leave? Your facts are a bit skewed.
Dear Anonymous at 8:26 am,
DeleteDo you have any facts showing that they were told to leave? If not, do not make any further speculation. The fact that there was a sudden mass exodus only showed where their loyalties lie, and obviously it is not with Christ and His Church.
Stop trying to twist things. I know the staff at both the Cathedral and Catholic Cemeteries. They left because they would not stand for injustice. Who are you to question their hearts? I have never seen such a more dedicate staff. Staying late into the night to finish work, getting in hours early to get a head start, coming in 7 days a week- all without additional pay. They loved what they did. Msgr. James did not treat them like servants, but like companions, all working for the betterment of the Church. When he was unjustly ousted, they saw their brother being kicked to the streets. Good siblings to not watch as their brother is innocently thrown out of their home. When Msgr. James was kicked out, so were they. Even if they did stay, it would have only been a matter of time before the working environment was made so terrible for them that they were forced out. Of course, you "diana", would judge these people without even knowing them.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:59 am,
DeleteThank you for proving my point. Injustice was much more important than serving the people in the Church.
Who says that they can't serve the Church in other ways? Thanks for proving my point. Attacking and judging without knowing these people.
DeleteBrutal way to prove your point DI. .
DeleteAnon 8:59AM I disagree, you said the staff that left with Msgnr James don't want to experience injustice? Maybe loyalty is the right word at the same with no respect with the recent Administrator and Archbishop. Afterall, it seems like Msgnr James is the bishop. Popularity contest.
DeleteAnon 7:58 AM do you consider leaving Christian? Your statemement is an evidence people leave the Church because of group click. Audacity of critisizing Msgnr David a boring priest. Check out the mediocricy of the priest outside the NCW. They're called to evangelize the one who left the church not the mass of people you know. Do they go out to GHURA housing knocking on door and announce the Gospel? NO.
ReplyDelete@ Anon 9:01am. How dare you have the audacity to judge Msgr. James and all other priests who are NOT neo. Is passing judgement really what they teach in the neo? Do the neo priests go and evangelize outside of the neo. NO.
DeleteAnon 2:51 PM is not a judgement but an obserbvation, is fact that. It hurts when youn rub salt on fresh wounds.
DeleteYou must really have a person vendetta against Msgr. James. What did he ever do to you? Why do you attack and malign everything about him? Msgr. James is the most humble and Christ-like priest I know. You should get to know him before you judge him.
ReplyDeleteBut you don't volunteer, that is my point too. You do not exist. The lectors, music ministers, etc. didn't leave jus the paid staff and key advisors. You didn't see the point of my writing- you accused every division of doing wrong and mismanagement. Just like when AAA will be changed, many will go- MANY. It's about personalities and bonds. David the sickly will have to build those with new folks. Is the NCW worried he can't do the job? Or worried that as more truth is revealed the people will stop until change is made. The Catholic Church has made mistakes even in picking Cardinals and Popes so I have come to the conclusion they have made a mistake with Apuron.
ReplyDeleteDiana,
ReplyDeleteI could not stomach Tim and his blog, he is not consider Catholic nor Christian. Growing up I was taught evil on someone despite the cause injustice.
Here what he stated on his blog: We can only hope, if we are to give charity a chance, that Archbishop Apuron is severely ill and must be immediately removed. Because if this is not the case, then we have a bishop who is evil incarnate, and he wouldn't be the first one.
Link:http://www.junglewatch.info/2014/08/what-sort-of-bishop.html#comment-form
Dear El Camino,
DeleteI see.....so they hope to see the Archbishop severely ill. And yes, this is coming from Tim Rohr.
You and El Camino don't get it, do you? Read the WHOLE statement again (to the very end):
Delete"We can only hope, if we are to give charity a chance, that Archbishop Apuron is severely ill and must be immediately removed. Because if this is not the case, then we have a bishop who is evil incarnate, and he wouldn't be the first one."
Tim Rohr is stating 2 options: the Archbishop is either (1) severely ill OR (2) evil incarnate.
Tim would prefer that the Archbishop be severely ill than to be EVIL INCARNATE simply because being severely ill is a matter of being the LESSER of two evils at this point.
Dear Anonymous at 4:22 p.m.,
DeleteI see.....so Tim prefer that the Archbishop be severely ill. Christ told us to love our enemies. He never said to wish anything evil of them.....even hope that they fall severely ill. I would be extremely careful of uttering words like that. Sometimes, the bad things a person hopes will befall on another will befall on that person instead.
Do you not see Tim's hatred for the Archbishop?? He hopes that the Archbishop would fall severely ill. How severely ill is Tim thinking???
Of the TWO options presented (1) being severely ill OR (2) being evil incarnate Tim would prefer the Archbishop to be severely ill INSTEAD OF being "EVIL INCARNATE."
DeleteWould YOU prefer that the Archbishop be "EVIL INCARNATE," Diana? Tim wouldn't and neither would I nor most people I know.
Dear Anonymous at 4:55 p.m.,
DeleteI prefer none of those. I do not wish anyone severely ill nor anyone to be evil incarnate. Instead, I will follow what Christ said: Love your enemies and pray for them always so that you may become children of God.
Saint pope john Paul 2 had Parkinson's - a severe illness, yet, he's now a saint.
DeleteArchbishop Anthony is neither 1 or 2.
Are you part of the new staff? No wonder you are attacking the old staff. I have never seen a more connected, dedicated, and intelligent staff than the one under Msgr. James. Good luck! Things will never be as organized as it was under Msgr. James.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 9:24 a.m.,
DeleteNo, I am not part of the new staff.
I hope the new staff are friendly, helpful and sincere. The previous hosts/hostesses were like movie ushers... don't smile but rush to be seen. Seriously, only Maryann Perez and her son greet parishioners w a smile.
DeleteIf the all things happen that you mention (mistakes in bulletin, mass not starting on time), then it would be Msgr. David's fault. As Rector, all things at Cathedral are his responsibility. He is responsible for his employees and volunteers. If he gives them responsibilities, then he puts his trust in them. If they screw up, he screws up. Is this a new concept for you?
ReplyDeleteIt is customary when there is a "change of administration" as Fr. Adrian described it that the staff of the previous administration tender their resignations. The new administrator has the prerogative to invite those employees to remain and work with him. If Msgr. David C opted not to exercise that right, don't blame the staff for doing what is done in the public and private sectors during a change of administration. That's just how things are. It's not another conspiracy against Msgr. David C, it's just real life outside the church.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 11:16 a.m.,
DeleteThe Catholic Church is not a government.
This is done in public (government) AND private (business) sectors.
DeleteBTW: What do you think served as the model for Government? The hierarchy of the CATHOLIC CHURCH
Dear Anonymous at 3:23 p.m.,
DeleteThe model for our government was modeled after the principles of democracy. The Catholic Church is not a democracy.
Diana wrote: "The Catholic Church is not a democracy."
DeleteYeah but is has rules that the Archbishop isn't allowed to ignore at his pleasure.
Anon 4:54PM what rule is that he ignored? Yours, not to your pleasing? Hmmmmmm,
DeleteI agree with diana it is not a democracy, that is why it can hide sexual predators and abuses. It doesn't like government but hides behind every founding principle. Freedoms, equality, tax free, etc. so yeah. It I should be treated like another company and taxed and regulated.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:59 a.m.,
DeleteI said the Catholic Church is NOT a democracy, so you describe the Catholic Church in that way????
the staff is too honorable to stab him in the back so they just left...
ReplyDeleteI'm paraphrasing: 'You cannot serve both God and mammon. You will either love one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.' Msgr. David is there in the name of God and he was despised by those who were serving mammon.
ReplyDelete@Anon 3pm.. once again, neos judging and attacking. This is exactly what discouraged me from become neo when I was told about a new catechesis. At least Tim Rohr doesn't attack personal characters, he calls out the actions and inactions of people. Big difference. All I see from the neos on this blog and on junglewatch is pure judgement of characters. Really sad and pathetic.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 3:29 pm,
DeleteAnonymous at 3:00 was quoting a biblical verse that can be found in the Holy Bible. Also, Tim Rohr has made many personal attacks. Calling others "liars" is a personal attack. What exactly would you call the action of over 90 percent of employees leaving the moment Monsignor David took over the helm? If that happened at a government agency, it would be called a protest.
Amen, Diana, Amen!
DeleteIt is a protest, no one is hiding that.
DeletePosts like these are just sad and divisive. I do not personally know any of the players on either side, but I have been following your blog and the jungle blog recently as a concerned Catholic. Ok so various staff members working closely with Monsignor James, some for decades, decided to resign following his abrupt "firing". You make two general arguments regarding their resignation. First, they resigned in an "apparent effort to paralyze" the new priest that "comes along." Second, apparently unlike yourself when you volunteer for the Church, their resignation demonstrates that they are serving only Monsignor James and not Jesus Christ and the Church. Considering the chaos that has erupted at the Cathedral, to characterize the changes at Cathedral as one apparently experienced by yourself when "a new priest comes along", is almost comical. You then not only pre-judge their personal intentions as an effort to paralyze the incoming Monsignor Quitugua, but conclude that, unlike you, their resignations show they were not working for God and His Church, but instead only for Monsignor James. Finally, as though Monsignor James has not been through enough these last few weeks, you now call into question ALL OF HIS EFFORT to lead his flock to Jesus Christ. If your intent in posts like these are to rally your side in some battle between Neo v. non-Neo Catholics, I guess divisive posts like these are fine. However, for outsiders like me just wanting to get an insider's view of the Way, and its apparent increased role in our Catholic Church, it serves no value at all. While you may certainly think and believe that you are closer to Christ and serve him better than any other person next to you, including these staff members, for you to proclaim it the way you have here only supports the exact opposite conclusion. Like I said, this post is sad and divisive.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 3:32 p.m.,
DeleteI go by what I see as logical. When 2 or 3 persons resign from a company.....that is understandable and even reasonable in any kind of business. But when you have over 90% resign, that sounds very fishy. There appears to be a motive behind it.
By the way, Anonymous at 3:32 p.m.,
DeleteTheir leaving is what caused the division.
Diana,
DeleteIf 90% of the staff resign, it's the 90% that are at fault?! Do you believe in even half the things you say?
Your logic always assumes that the Archbishop and the NCW are never the cause of anything negative - so everyone else must be the problem.
That's the only way to explain your brand of logic.
Dear Anonymous at 4:51 pm,
DeleteIf you had read my post, it does say that you will simply blame it all on Monsignor David. But not to worry. It is best that the 90 percent left so Monsignor David can choose his own staff, ensuring that there will be no spies to leak out information to the wrong hands.
What kind of information would be leaked? threats, corruption? payments to the NCW? well what is it?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 5:37 p.m.
DeleteMost likely personal and confidential information that would be misconstrued.
Diana I agree that it is unfortunate that there will be no one left to keep AAA in check. Now the transfer of the yona property is all but assured. Now walking in the way will be the only way
DeleteHere you go read this article in the web:A
ReplyDeleteBrief Description of the Government of the Catholic Church
I think it is normal that when changing administration there are some hiccups along the way. Msgr. David (btw do you know the Pope hates that title?) needs some time to adjust and get to know his new parish as pastor. He will make mistakes, and probably make some people angry, but it is unfair to him to not give him a chance. While the resignation of the employees who worked in the cathedral may be an example of loyalty to Msgr. James, it could also be interpreted as rebellion to AAA. Either way it makes life for Msgr. David more difficult. He is stuck in the middle of a nasty power play. In this time of controversy isn't the welfare of the people of God everybody's priority? Think of all the people who are not in the Way and do not agree with Tim Rohr, who have not taken sides in the controversy and who just need a place to receive the sacraments and hear the Word of God. Aren't they the victims here?
ReplyDeleteWhy does he need to know his parish. He was rector at one time!
DeleteI pray for these brothers who have put their love for Monsignor Benavente before God. When the arrogance and sense of entitlement dissipate, the Church will be there ready to welcome them as it did me. God is love. Reconcile in love.
ReplyDeleteWe pray even harder for those who follow a lay person before the Pope. Kiko is not the prophet who is the liaison between the Pope and the archbishops as is proclaimed.
DeleteAt 10:51pm, you are doing your mission then brother. We must all pray for those who have not heard the good news of Jesus Christ Resurrected! Those outside of the Church need our prayers indeed. Brothers in the Way continue to follow the popes who have approved and confirmed the Way for our faith formation. P.S. - I know what you meant by your comment, and while I thank you for keeping brothers like me in your prayers, I hope you pray for those I have mentioned in this post as well.
Deletebecause places change over the years. because people change. because the Cathedral was run by someone else for 20 years.
ReplyDeleteAi ya yai. In many parishes around the world, priests are shuffled from one prish to another- not staying in one church for too long. Complacency brings comfort. Comfort doesn't allow us to trust in God. Change is good-- different because we don't know what's to come and we lose control, but.. it is good.
ReplyDeleteTrust in God... not in man. Man has no mercy and very difficult to want to forgive.
God is merciful. He loves. AND, He forgives.
Monsignor James was not stripped of his duties as a priest...
Anon 9:16 PM I agree with you. More mad more it seems like a Priest becoming and idol. Maybe God planned it we'll for a new mission in Tamuning.
DeleteMonsignor David gave an EXCELLENT homily today.
ReplyDeleteIf you are expecting something negative, you wil find it. If you are expecting something positive, you will find it. If you are open to the will of God, life is so much more sweet. May God protect His flock.
Yes, he is a good homilist. Administrator? Maybe not so.
DeleteAnon 12:23PM the last administrator was also a good one also? Trying to override the Archbishop with out him knowing. This happen while the Archbishop was at Rome. Try to sell property without the Archbishop knowing. This is a known fact.
Delete@ 1:21, just shows how ignorant you are, because there is no way he could have sold the seminary without the Archbishops approval. So go ahead and take that lie out of your bag of tricks.
DeleteAnonymous, where is the honor in walking away from the helping the church? Pope Francis told the Koreans to evangelize, to seek those lost sheep as in todays gospel. We need to walk the way of Jesus Christ,...the 90% chose to walk away. Many are called anonymous, maybe only the 10% that didn't walk away are choosen.
ReplyDeleteWhat honor is there in serving someone who is harming the church? They'd just be supporting the harm that was being done.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 7:33 a.m.,
DeleteIn the first place, one who works at the Church is supposed to serve God and the people of the Church. They are not servants of the priests. It is the priest who is supposed to teach these workers that they are servants of the Lord and His Church. Those who left, left because they were serving a priest.
So was it right to work for Hitler?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 7:56 a.m.,
DeleteAre you comparing God to Hitler who murdered more than 6 million Jews?
That's silly Diana. I'm comparing the Arch to Hitler.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:59 a.m.,
DeleteThat would still be an unfair comparison. How is the Archbishop similar to Hitler? Who did the Archbishop murder? Tim Rohr equates the Archbishop to "evil incarnate", which is still an unfair comparison especially when we see what is going on in Iraq.
Someone on Tim Rohrs side slashed the Archbishops car tires during Mass. And Tim only said sarcastically is the Archbishop filed a police report. The intent of that person was to kill - which makes it seem like Tim is allowing criminal and totally unChristian fanatics to stand be his side......
Deleteanonymous, I pray that that someone in your comment is not Jesus Christ. We are blessed on Guam with all our priest but they are only messengers of the word of God. We are blessed when we walk into our Father's church which is never closed, always open, always forgiving, always loving. I am always happy to see a priest but he and I will have a long debate on who is the greatest sinner in that church. We are all sinners anonymous and we are called to follow no matter how hard the situation...Jesus Christ. Accept it.....don't be like the 90%
ReplyDeleteanonymous, you ended by stating....May God protect his flock. I am troubled by this simply because the doubt it implies that our Lord has been negligent. The flock for two thousand some years has always been under attack, sometimes from within but never forsaken, never abandoned. It is us who abandon. In the Gospel today Jesus says...I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. anonymous, there are more lost sheep outside the church than the flock within. Maybe we do not understand but we cannot minimize Gods love for all his people's
ReplyDeleteExodus from the Cathedral....I cannot help but reflect on Matthew 14:13-21.....the miracle of the loaves.
ReplyDeletethe disciples wanted to send people away and the Lord said to them,...there is no need for them to go away; give them food yourself. Monsignor David and his 10% staff may be overwhelmed by this word but they will also be witnesses to the same miracle that can only come from Gods work.....not theirs.
Yes. Change can be good. But change due to improper motives is not good. There is a distinction.
ReplyDeleteIsiah 55:8...your way is not my way.......anonymous....
ReplyDeleteEverything in your Diocese falls on your bishops head....if he cant get things in order....then Vatican will appoint someone else to do the job. Pray that your bishop gets his act together or he will lose his Diocese.
ReplyDeleteanonymous,...I am guessing that you are not Catholic. If you are then we must acknowledge that the bishop is ...our... Arch Bishop. If everything refers to the problems of the church falling on our Arch Bishop's head,...consider.....if you are Catholic...that it justifies...completes the reasoning. .the existence of the church. A church without problems? Think about it. Order? No such reality...everything...everyone breaks. If you are Catholic the you should know that we are always praying for our church leaders and priest. Lastly, the Vatican. I dont know anything about the process of removing Arch Bishop's but its maybe logical to assume that popularity is not a criteria. John Paul ll during his visit knowledged Arch Bishop Apuron....as my youngest Arch Bishop. Many would consider the youngest of anything as the least experienced...the weakest. If you are Catholic, you should know that our Lord is always closer to the weakest...not the strongest. The Arch Bishop's strengths does not come on his ability to defend himself but rather his willingness to accept...embrace your judgements. If you are Catholic...read the Gospel of John 16:1-4
ReplyDeleteIf individuals want to leave an organization or withdraw their support, it is their personal decision. This is true whether they follow "your way" or choose their "own way." As Pope Francis cautioned a group of Neos in Feb 2014 "The freedom of each person must not be forced, and even the eventual choice of someone who decides to seek, outside of the Way, other forms of Christian life that help him to grow in the response to the call of the Lord must be respected."
ReplyDeleteDear eileenbb,
DeleteI agree with you here. A person does not have to join the Way if they do not want. Priests, however, are different. They took an oath of obedience to the Archbishop, so when the Archbishop tells a priest to open his parish to the NCW, he must do so because of his oath of obedience to the Archbishop.
My understanding is that the pastor of the parish makes that decision. It is also my understanding that an archbishop invites the Neos to his archdiocese but does not coerce any pastors to accept the group.
ReplyDeleteDear eileenbb,
DeleteThe parish priests are the ones who took an oath to obey the Archbishop. The Archbishop also did not coerce any pastors. He asked them, and they are given a choice. They either open their parish to the NCW or they have only one year to stay in that parish, and they will be transferred out of their parish.
How is that a choice? Do what I say or get transferred? Seems odd to me. That's not a choice, that's coercion and a threat. Guam is a small island. Those wishing to join the Neos can simply join the group in another parish. Is there a problem with that? If I want to join, I can go to Barrigada church which is close to my home parish. Is the Neo group there open to all?
ReplyDeleteDear eileenbb,
DeleteThe letter never say "do as I say." He ASKED the priest to comply and even praised the priest in the hopes that he would take the task. And of course, the Archbishop was forthright in informing the priest if he chose the other option. See the weblink below for a more detailed answer:
http://neocatechemunal.blogspot.com/2014/08/responding-to-anonymous-poster-from.html
The Way is open to everyone. However, the Way is only one instrument to help people. There are others such as the Legion of Mary, the Catholic Daughters, Charismatic Catholic Renewal, the Cursillios, etc. There are many other groups that Catholics could join to help them come closer to God. The Neocatechumenal Way is only one of them. A person does not have to join the Way. Perhaps, they find it better being in the Knights of Columbus or the Legion of Mary.
"If you decide you will not serve, I will have to let you know now that your time in this Archdiocese will be for only one year from the above date."
DeleteThis is coercion. This is a threat. As you state, there are other groups for Catholics to join to deepen their faith.
For a pastor who is born and raised on Guam, this is a threat and coercion. It's do as the archbishop "asks" or face exile and probably with no recommendation from the archbishop should he find an off-island parish. Why must every parish embrace the neos? It's open to all and easily accessible for those interested if not in their home parish, correct?
Interesting. I read the letter from the Archbishop to the priest ASKING them to participate in the Way. Yes, he did ASK. The end of his letter is where the threat comes in, although forthright, it is still a threat.
Delete"I ask that you help me in my pastoral mission by assisting this community in their celebrations. I assure you that you will benefit spiritually for them as they will from you. If you decide you will not serve, I will have to let you know now that your time in this Archdiocese will be for only one year from the above date."
When you ASK someone to do something, obedience does not factor into the discussion. It is OPTIONAL. When I ask my son if he can help me with something and he says no, then there is no repercussion or punishment. Now if I TOLD him to help me and he did not comply, then he is being disobedient. I do not ASK him something and then punish him if he does not do what I ask, simply because I am ASKING, not TELLING. When you ASK someone to do something, you cannot end it with a statement like .."and if you don't, then this is going to happen to you...." . That is a THREAT, pure and simple. Even an idiot can figure that out. No matter how hard you try to sugar-coat it, "Diana", it is still a threat. Shame on the Archbishop for stooping that low. I guess he does not like rejection. It is truly mind-boggling how strong of a hold the NCW has on him. I guess the words "SERVUS TUUS" (Your Servant) on his Coat of Arms now only applies to the NCW. Funny, because on the Archdiocese's website under his own link, his motto is explained with the following:
"This motto is a pledge of his future service to the People of God in the Archdiocese in imitation of Jesus Christ, the humble servant of his Father in heaven."
People of God...all of them or just the NCW? Instead of siding with one, shouldn't he be bringing us all together as one "People of God in the Archdiocese in imitation of Jesus Christ, the humble servant of his Father in heaven." If not, then he needs to step down. No threat, just common sense.
Dear eileenbb,
DeleteThe word "decide" shows that the priest is given a decides ion to make. There is no threat in that sentence. Even his vocation as a priest is not threatened. There is nothing in that sentence saying that he will be defrocked or excommunicated.
The Archbishop is simply letting him know that he would only have one year in the Archdiocese and then the priest can go home. Now, let me ask you......is going home to your home country to see your family and people really such a bad thing??? Is going home to family members a torture so great that you see it as a threat?
Hafa Adai Diana,
DeleteI posted a reply to this thread between you and Eileen BB regarding the Archbishop's letter to the parish priests ASKING them to comply with the NCW was waiting to see it posted and wanted to see YOUR reply to it, but it never happened. I posted it before 5:00pm but it never showed. I don't think anything in it was disrespectful, so I hope to see it here soon.
Dear Anonymous at 4:53 p.m.,
DeleteObviously, you have never given your children "choices." I do it all the time. I ask them, "Do you prefer that I buy you the blue shirt or the green one?" It's their choice. "You can either wash the dishes or throw out the trash." Take your pick. Strangely enough, my child ends up washing the dishes, which takes more time than throwing out the trash. When giving them a choice, it is both ASKING and allowing them to make a decision. Sometimes, I allow them to make a choice. That is what the Archbishop did in his letter. He allowed them to choose.
Of course, there are also times, I ask my kid to do something. There are times my child would grumble, but would do as I ask. There are also times, my child would do something without my asking. But children are supposed to be obedient to their parents. Did you read what it says in the Bible?
A father has two sons. The father asks both sons to do something. One son says no, but changes his mind and does it. The other son says yes, but did not do it. Which of these sons is justified in Heaven? When parents ask their children to do something, a child does it out of love for their parents.
Take it a little further. If God our Father ASKS you to do something, would you say NO???
Dear Anonymous at 5:37 a.m.,
DeleteI apologize. I was very busy last night and was not able to read and publish any comments on my blog until this morning.
I was referencing pastors born and raised on Guam who are threatened with banishment for not answering the archbishop's request as he desires.
ReplyDeleteTo me, the archbishop's statement is a threat.
Dear eileenbb,
DeleteFrom what I understand, those letters were sent to the Filipino priests.
Diana, what are your thoughts about the paychecks being withheld if people in the mass exodus didn't sign a Confidentiality Notice? Federal and local law do not allow such actions. It sounds like the Archbishop thinks he's above the law by requiring those people to sign the notice before they could receive their paychecks for work already performed. What happened here?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 9:42 a.m.,
DeleteA few years ago, my work did the same thing. They wanted us to turn in a form before they give us our paychecks. We ignored it. So, even though I did not turn in the form on that day, they still gave out my paycheck. I turned in the form the following week. The only reason my work did that was because they had problems with employees complying with deadlines, and they were hoping that more of them would turn in the form before or on the deadline in order to pick up their paycheck.
So, the Archbishop does not think he is above the law by doing that. Surely, you recognize that there is a problem of employees in the Chancery leaking out documents and information to the jungle. By using the employees paycheck, they were hoping that they would agree in signing the confidentiality policy and cease any leaks to the jungle.