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Saturday, February 10, 2018

Another Interesting Article From Vatican Insider

The following article is in the Vatican Insider.  The highlights are mine.
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The February 7th audience with Pope Francis in the Vatican. The verdict of Cardinal Burke's trial remains unpublished. The latest accusation from his nephew. The Church on the island is hit with an avalanche of lawsuits.




VATICAN CITY

34 comments:

  1. I wonder if the media will contact AB Byrnes and ask him questions regarding the news in Vatican Insider. They might ask him how a private letter of a cardinal addressed only to him managed to get published in a blog.

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  2. All the problems the Archdiocese of Agana is going through points to one man. If he speaks the truth why be afraid to come home and clear his name. The article states that 25 priests, lawyers and prominent people signed a petition for a canonical recourse in support of Apuron. The NCW communities on Guam, some clergy members and some prominent people of this island can fight to clear Apuron's name. Wny haven't they come out in full force or have they thrown Apuron under the bus.

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    1. Diana, you put a lot of emphasis on Tim Rohr, don't forget that it was the traditional Catholics who pounded the pavement.

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    2. Dear Anonymous at 11:06 pm,

      Open your eyes. The article stated:

      "Accusations from which have emerged some contradictions and incongruences in the course of the process conducted by five bishops and overseen by American Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke, whom the pope sent to the island to investigate the case."

      Someone under the last thread said that it is possible that some information may have been leaked out in Rome to the jungle that Archbishop Apuron would be exonerated. That may explain the suspicious timing of Mark Apuron, and the desperation in Rohr, trying to demonize the Archbishop at the Rotary Club.

      If Rohr can obtain a private letter addressed to Archbishop Byrnes, would it be a surprise if he got information from his Italian connections about the verdict? After all, why the desperation in trying to demonize Archbishop Apuron?

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    3. Dear Anonymous at 11:19 pm,

      Those traditional Catholics only repeated everything Rohr said in his blog. Even the seminary report that CCOG put together came from Rohr's blog. Do you not remember? CCOG put together a seminary report WITHOUT visiting the seminary. So, where did they get the information? They got it all from Rohr's blog. See the weblink below:

      https://neocatechemunal.blogspot.com/2016/08/ccogs-press-release_30.html

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  3. Diana there is a leak in the Vatican because Timmy is now talking about the lastampa article and he’s showing pictures of the meeting

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  4. Tim is scared, he doesn't care how far he has to go in order to impose his narrative, he doesn't care about his family, his children, his spouse... all he cares is that he doesn't go to jail for 'deliberately' defaming Apuron on behalf of the Benaventes or whomever is pulling his strings... he is the scapegoat of the real villains... Rohr is just a tool for those that rule the island to get their way... in business terms, Rohr is an 'undertaker' the one that does all the dirty work... his motivation is money/power, I am just startled at the extent to which he will go, i.e. his family... I mean, anyone that puts power/money over family has some serious issues in life... thank God there is reconciliation in the Catholic Church and as Christians we can forgive, but he is not backing down, the madness continues, the damage he is inflicting to himself and to his loved-ones is beyond anything I have ever witnessed. We need to pray for him and his family.

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    1. Dear Anonymous, so why don't you tell us if you are so sure?! Whoever is pulling Rohr's strings? You made me very curious!

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    2. Grow up in faith - if you can tell me who paid the Russian Spy to fabricate dirt on Trump, you can easily find out who is subsidizing Rohr. Apuron's version of the story implies that there is a deep political corruption in the island... and if you are 'old enough' as Apuron is, you know who he is talking about.

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  5. If you say is true Ann. 2:48, call AAA back to Guam and face the truth of his actions. If he did do it, as alleged, let the wheels of justice roll. If not there is nothing to worry about.

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    1. Anonymous at 7:24am
      I prefer to think that Apuron believes that in Guam he will not get a fair trial, according to his side of the story there are political forces bigger than a public court, that also explains why he asked the Vatican to intervene and the Canonical trial was their response... In the meantime, we are all waiting, patiently for the verdict. I don't know, nor do I presume to know, in such a delicate case, why would anyone claim to know what they don't know? Tim claims the verdict is guilty... why would he do that? his own credibility is at stake. Anyways, I pray for Apuron and I pray for his enemies. Pray for the truth to come up, we must. But, I will not believe any allegations neither anything Tim may presumptuously claim.

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    2. Dear Anonymous, are you questioning the constitutional court system? Who are exactly the "political forces bigger than a public court"? Are you claiming that unconstitutional influence is exerted on the judges on Guam? You better know that the public court system works as an independent institution and takes influence from nowhere and from nobody, except the constitution/ organic act!

      When you question the fairness of the court of law, you instill doubt in the citizens about the law system and the democratic order of the land! Are you rebelling against the rule of law and the constitutional order?!

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    3. I am old enough to know that islands are always ruled by a few families that are in power. Only naive and young people believe that 'the public cour system' is flawless and impervious to corruption. FYI: old people like me and Apuron know, by articles of faith, that we all suffer from original sin. Wherease, within the Church we recognize our weaknesses, in the 'political' world they all present themselves as unblemished idealized (almost divine) personalities (think Rohr)... and everyone that has enough experience knows that is a load of hypocrisy. Lawyers and Politicians have as much credibilities as 2nd-hand-car-salesmenn... so spear me your 'rule of law'/'democratic order'... Just look at the corruption in DC and you will get but a hint of what is going on in Guam and then some.

      Apuron, who is smarter than his enemies, asked Rome to intervene. That is his version of the story... On the other side, your version, the way you praise the democracy in Guam, the glorification of the court system, the romantic description of the island politics, reveal to me that you yourself are part of the island corrupt forces or... you are completely immature.

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    4. Are you saying the democratic order of law and justice cannot be trusted?! This sounds odd from a self-proclaimed anonymous. If you know a crime and you don't report it, then you are an accomplice. If you don't know a crime then what are you talking about?!

      I don't know what corruption you are accusing the US government in DC of! Could you please elaborate? Are you saying the federal government is corrupt and maintains corrupt democracy in Washington DC? Based on what?

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    5. Dear Grow up in faith,

      I have always said that our justice system is not perfect, but it is better than that of a totalitarian government. The canonical trial, which Rohr finds irrelevant, is actually better than the civil trial in Guam. In fact, it may even have an impact on the civil trial. The canonical trial in Rome is considered a valid trial.

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  6. Is Rohr "Unclean..Unclean"?? Standind in front of Rotarians poissoning their minds while they eat and drink...Jew and Greeks and the Church...causing scandal...
    Ask the Lord if He wills to cure the leporsy.. I'm pretty shure He wills it. All you gotta do is ask.....He is full of mercy......

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    1. Jews and Greeks and leprosy...?! Who on earth they are?

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    2. Research the Jews and Greeks in relation to Christians in scripture.
      Leprosy is a sickness that can be looked at as similar to our sins in a spiritual sense....

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    3. Rohr is neither a Jew nor a Greek. He has no leprosy either. What on earth are you talking about?

      The medical record of every citizen is private and cannot be disclosed to the public. Keeping privacy is a human right that you cannot violate. Why are you dwelling in lawless speculation?

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    4. OMG....you can't even relate scripture to whats happening in your life....no wonder the word passes you by....think deeper...open your heart spiritually....
      I guess its hard enough to announce the "gospel" to pagans....

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    5. @annon 12:44PM. I don't care to know rohr's medical condition.. whatever kind of sickness or health condition he has...never was dwelling on it.. was speaking about the past Sunday's reading....
      Sorry you can't relate.....

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  7. It's a good thing that Mr. Cernuzio is in the Way, so he can publish the truth about us.

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    1. Hilarious, 10:10

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    2. Gosh! any reporter that repeats what the Vatican Insider reported or that reports on NCW events is now labelled an NCW fanatic... ALARM ALARM ALAM....

      RELAS!!! the guy is just trying to earn a living... does Rohr really has to dehumanize, demonize and terrorize everyone that doesn't agree with him? Grow up!!!

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  8. Diana did you hear what happened to the gift shop at the cathedral it got shutdown don’t know why but father Paul just announced it during the mass

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    1. Dear God is one,

      That is okay. I can always shop at Padre Pio or even go online at Amazon.com.

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    2. Its good that the gift shop closed and finances looked at....taking it over from when timmy ran it....might uncover something??

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  9. And Diana guampdn will not put the lastampa article in their paper is because of sondia since he works there to

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  10. Diana, I submitted you 4 quotes from CCC. Why did not you publish? I am sorry if you think it went to the wrong topic, but I think it could fit here. I only try to help with the facts.

    CCC 633 has it this way: Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation.

    CCC 1021 states very clearly: Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.

    CCC 1022 has a stern warning: Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification or immediately, -- or immediate and everlasting damnation.

    CCC 1033 clarifies even more: To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

    It was for your comment that "You say that Christ preached only to the righteous in the land of the dead. Then why was he preaching to the sinners on earth? If Christ preached to the sinners on earth, it stands to reason that he would also be preaching to the sinners in the land of the dead. ... After all, it is the sinner who needs saving... Christ descended to Hell to preach the good news to the dead so that like St. Dismas (who was an unrighteous thief to begin with), they would also believe in him and have salvation..."

    My feeling was that St. Dimas, the "good thief" repented on the cross when he was still breathing. So he was saved by the Lord, alleluia! He went with Jesus to Paradise. But if you cannot breathe anymore, your soul is not in your body! Then who are you? How can you believe in Christ without your body?

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    1. Dear Joanne, as Diana called it into your attention, this thread is going on in another topic. But you quotes are all relevant and I would like to reflect on them in context of salvation of dead souls in hell.

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    2. Dear Joanne, we had the statement that Jesus descended to hell to preach His resurrection to the souls so that they begin to believe in Him and get salvation. This would mean one could get salvation as the soul of a dead person in hell. Diana explained that nobody should be left out, not even the souls of the dead.

      But your quote of CCC 633 and 1021 clarifies that this is not the case. You found the appropriate paragraphs dear Joanne! The grace manifested in Christ cannot be accepted in hell. Those who reject the very concept of particular judgment would typically argue referring to the souls in heaven waiting for salvation. However, there is no salvation in hell! Hell is the place of damnation. This is in CCC 1022.

      The souls of the saints of the Old Testament times who repented their sin while on earth sojourned in hell temporarily only, until the death of Jesus opened the gate of heaven for them. These were the righteous who otherwise would have ascended to heaven already, but because of the sin of Adam and Eve, they were not allowed to do so!

      Again, those who reject the Catholic teaching of propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, would typically argue that redemption is not coming from the death of Jesus, but from His resurrection. But this is wrong! The Catholic Church teaches something else. Jesus freed the prisoner saints in hell by His death on Good Friday even before His resurrection on Easter Sunday!

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    3. Correction: Those who reject the very concept of particular judgment would typically argue referring to the souls in HELL waiting for salvation.

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    4. Dear Critiquer,

      This is what the CCC 633 stated. Notice the word "Hell" in it.

      CCC 633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.

      That is the "HELL" that Christ went down to. In Hebrew, it is called "Sheol." In Greek, it is called "Hades." Sometimes, we call it the "land of the dead."

      The Hell of damnation is a different Hell. The Book of Revelations calls it the "Lake of Fire." The Catechism of the Catholic Church calls it the "Eternal fire."

      CCC 1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

      Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

      Why do you think the Bible specifically said sins of the past and not "future" sins????? Christ preached to those in the Land of the Dead, which is called Hell. Those who are damned were already damned. Christ did not preach to them.

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    5. As I said before, the problem with this debate is the terminology. You think the dead is the same as the damned. You define "righteousness" as people who have sins including the Original sin. And when Christ descended into Hell, you do not know enough Catholicism to understand that the "Hell" he descended into was the land of the dead and not the one of eternal damnation. The Apostles Creed clearly stated that Jesus descended into Hell. But if you had studied it further like we do in the Way, you would have understood that this "Hell" he descended into was the "land of the dead." See my previous comments. Did you notice that a few times, I have stated "Land of the Dead?" And yes, this is Catholicism.

      The Apostles Creed:

      I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

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