Isn't it time for you to let go and see that Archbishop Byrnes is trying to restore that link?
How? By criticizing and judging a brother Bishop? Is that how unity is supposed to be restored? Since when has judgments ever restored unity? Father Pius, Father Adrian, Father Edivaldo, Monsignor David, and the entire NCW including its founder were called "liars." Did that restore unity? The seminary was accused of money laundering. Did that restore unity? So, explain how a Bishop who publicly goes on air to criticize a brother Bishop as being a "disaster" without hearing his side of the story supposed to restore unity?
You came to my blog and tell me that I should let go; yet, you do not even go to the jungle blog and tell them to let go. Now, why is that? May I remind you that it was the jungle blog who has been having a field day with the word "Disaster" ever since July 6th right after the press conference of Archbishop Byrnes. My post, on the other hand, was not posted until July 7th, the DAY AFTER THE PRESS CONFERENCE. So, why come to my blog and tell me to let go, but do not go to the jungle and tell them the same thing?
You publicly pointing out Archbishop Byrnes' fault does nothing to help the situation. You did exactly what those 2 priests did a few years ago. Instead of taking your problem to the bishop yourself, you went straight to the public sphere with this blog post.
On the contrary, I did take the problem to Archbishop Byrnes FIRST. Before I posted on my blog, I emailed Archbishop Byrnes and corrected him, which I hope he will take into consideration. My post was ALSO a correction. It is a message of correction, telling everyone that judgments does not bring reparation. It does not bring reconciliation. That was the main message in my post. Now explain to me, what message do you think Rohr was sending out when he wrote the following in his comments:
AnonymousJuly 7, 2017 at 12:37 AM
All is not well yet-Archbishop Byrnes still needs to REMOVE RMS and heretcal presbyters.
Anon. 7:15. You need to read Diana's post carefully. She started out with saying that we ALL are guilty of making judgments. She pointed out in the OP how to reach unity, and it wasn't by making judgments. The way to unity is to not to make any judgments. She also said that when we do make judgments, we should apologize for it. The way to unity is through discussions and asking for forgiveness. That was in the OP. Yes, she pointed out AB Byrne's criticism of AB Apuron. But she said that will not bring reparation because by saying those things, it only hurts Apuron's family, his friends, and supporters.
ReplyDeleteThe Archbishop made a stern warning to Vatican of the consequences of returning to the practices of the past. If Apuron returns as bishop of record then he will continue the practices of the past. This is a valid concern.
DeleteArchbishop Michael did not criticize the person, he criticized a possible reckless decision by Vatican to allow the mess to continue on Guam. Archbishop Michael is an executive leader. He is no saint. Just as Archbishop Apuron is no saint either.
Dear Anonymous at 3:01 pm,
DeleteThe reason Archbishop Byrnes held a press conference was to update the media on the canonical trial of Archbishop Apuron. He went beyond that. If he has a judgment against Archbishop Apuron, then he should have addressed that problem with his brother Bishop rather than airing his judgment to the media. Archbishop Byrnes is the shepherd. If he wants to establish peace and reconciliation, then he should start with himself first. He should reconcile with his brother Bishop first before he attempts to reconcile the sheep in the Archdiocese.
That is right. He has to reconcile with brother bishop first to see what is permitted and what is not. Going public talk about the reason of the press conference, not other things. When you go beyond you succumb temptation. Criticizing you brother is like listening to the tempter who is in the detail in everything. The devil sows the seeds of discord.
DeleteByrnes is so one sided. Archbishop Apuron accused of all these sexual abuse with probable Alter Boys in a quest of money. Secondly money laundering in the seminary? How, the seminary detached from funding with Archdiocese of Agana.
ReplyDeleteMy message to Byrnes (probably not posted) You give they want the CCOG will love you and if you don't give them what they want, they'll despise you back to Detroit.
In time yes...... they'll despise Archbishop Byrnes throw him out to favour Monsignor James.
DeleteOne side of the truth is no truth. The truth has two or perhaps three sides. That is truth. The Holy Spirit is the truth. One side is never truth!
DeleteBefore you posted on your blog you sent him an email and then left him no time to respond or apologize for his actions by taking this to the public sphere to make an example of sin in him instead of giving him time to come out on his own.
ReplyDeleteNot only that but the decision of the canonical trial isn't even out yet. You don't even know if Archbishop Apuron is coming back or not. And instead of giving Archbishop Byrnes time to consider your words should Archbishop Apuron return and retract his statement and make a public apology, you took matters into your own hands. Why didn't you wait for a response from Archbishop Byrnes?
Dear Anonymous at 11:28 am,
DeleteArchbishop Byrnes does not write back to me. He never does. Regardless of the outcome of the canonical trial, my email to him was to correct him. My post was also a message of correction. What message do you think Rohr was sending?
I don't think Diana's post was making an example of Byrnes' sin. Diana admitted that she made a similar judgment when she claimed that St. Peter was an unfit leader. If there's a message to Byrnes in her post, it's that he shouldn't be too quick to judge especially since he hasn't spoken to Apuron to get his side of the story. Right now, Byrnes is surrounded with Rohr's group, so they are feeding him all kinds of misinformation.
DeleteArchbishop Michael is our beloved church leader who is his own man. He makes his own decision. He has done a lot to make improvements and he showed strength, courage and determination to clean up the mess our church is in right now.
DeleteIt is absolutely okay when one brother corrects another. Brother Diana recognized the error of brother Michael Jude and corrected him. When you are in error a brother correcting you is a blessing. That is what brothers do. We do not allow error to prevail because that is not Christian.
DeleteThe Catholic Church teaches that we are sinners in need of correction. The Holy Spirit cannot be scorned. Your sin can be forgiven unless you sin against the Holy Spirit that is coming to you in the correction of your error by your brother.
This is why the Neocatechumenal Way can never be overcome. We correct each other by the Holy Spirit. Where two-three brothers come together in the name of the Lord, the Holy Spirit is there! Not listening to the Holy Spirit is sin. He tells you not to judge your brother. He tells you how to correct your brother when in error. The Holy Spirit is always right, his way cannot be appealed. He was sent by the Lord.
Brother Michael Jude does well to listen to brother Diana who is correcting him by the Holy Spirit. How do you know she is talking by the Holy Spirit? Because the Holy Spirit is always right. That is how. You have to obey the Holy Spirit who was sent to you from the Lord. Obedience is the foundation of the Kingdom.
"Because the Holy Spirit is always right."
DeleteYes. But Diana is not always right. She is not the Holy Spirit.
Dear Anonymous at 4:02 pm,
DeleteI am not the Holy Spirit. But what I said about correcting a brother is correct. This is how conflicts and problems are resolved in the Way. As human beings, we are not perfect. All of us (including myself) have made judgments against others. All of us need corrections when we make errors. I am thankful that I have brothers who correct me.
Yes, Dr Eusebio, you need correction in many areas. You have also publically accused people erroneously.
DeleteWho is BROTHER Diana. Is this ever mixed up!
DeleteAnonymous at 11:28 AM, how did you know that Diana sent the Archbishop an email but left no time for him to respond or apologize???
DeleteYou must be the person who wrote " A lot of confidential information is sent out of Byrnes office via whatsap. I was under impression Archbishop approved of this."
The Neocatechumenal Blogspot
ReplyDeleteFail to see how Archbishop Apuron can have a fair due process system.
No matter outcome of this case Guam needs the NCW Clergy and communities for the future of the Archdiocese. Clear NCW are the future of Guam.
He cannot have a fair due process system because there is everywhere the jungle nation folks of Timmy Rohr and others from his blog. They even wrote to Rome to influence the canonical trial. This is wrong. This is sin against the Holy Spirit.
DeleteAnon@3:18pm; it is not the Jungle, but Diana that encourages everyone to write to Rome if you they have a complaint or issue.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:32 am,
DeleteActually, Tim Rohr has previously told people to write to the nuncio. It was only recently that he is saying not to look to Rome. In fact, Rohr was even working together with SNAP. Since the lawsuit against SNAP, Rohr distance himself from SNAP.
Yes there was a time when Tim Rohr told people to write to the nuncio. That was before the January 2015 visit by Krebs, Hon, and Nowak. That was before the visitators left a plan of action to rebuild bridges for Apuron to follow. That was before Apuron threw away the action plan and burned more bridges. That was before Hon was sent to Guam and ignored the sexual abuse victims while he said all kinds of supportive things about Apuron. That was before the picketers took things into their hands after Hon made it clear that he was here to keep Apuron's seat of authority warm for his return. With Hon doing all the right things for his brother bishop and ignoring the laity (victims and protestors) it became really clear that Rome was not going to do anything to help us out. If anything, Cardinal Filoni was doing all he could to further Apuron's and the NCW cause.
DeleteAs far as SNAP is concerned I think Tim might have thought the organization was sincere at first (I know I did). But in time it became clear that SNAP wasn't really about supporting survivors of clergy abuse but about promoting themselves.
I'll give SNAP credit for being able to change with the times: at first SNAP praised Apuron for removing Fr. Paul from Sta. Barbara and then SNAP turned against Apuron when the allegations of sexual abuse came out.
Dear Anonymous at 4:04 pm,
DeleteOh please.....we all know that a tape recording of the clergy meeting was leaked to Rohr. How did you expect Archbishop Apuron to build any bridges when Rohr undermined any building of bridges and action plan by publishing the recording of the clergy meeting and making fun of it?
As for SNAP, the only time Tim distanced himself from them was when the lawsuit against SNAP hit the news.
Rohr was in personal relationship with SNAP availing of all their resources. Then he turned against organization.
DeleteDiana, when Cardinal Edmund Burke and other Cardinals criticized the apostolic letter Amoris Laetitia, they did not have to seek reconciliation with Pope Francis first. Brother Edmund did not attempt to correct brother Francis in private. He published his criticism. You would say, thus shaming the relatives of Pope Francis who are around. How would the poor relatives feel? Lol, who cares? Relatives are out of picture here.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is that Catholic orthodoxy is fighting here more liberated approaches. Orthodoxy is represented by Burke and more liberated approaches by the Pope and the Vatican offices. You would misconstrue the discord by claiming error on either side! This is not a matter of correction but a matter of church policies, the future direction of the whole church.
The same way, Catholic orthodoxy is represented on Guam by the jungle group and more liberated approaches by Archbishop Michael. Reconciliation at the brotherhood level would not resolve any conflict here. You have to develop church policies to handle finances and seminary issues. This will lay down the master plan of the future of the church on Guam.
Just as in Vatican, orthodoxy and renewal have to coexist peacefully on Guam, too.
Dear Anonymous at 4:51 pm,
DeleteCardinal Burke and the other cardinals were criticizing "Amorim Laetitia". When you criticize an object or a doctrine, that is a personal opinion. In my last post, I explained the difference between an opinion and a judgment against a person. If a person says, I disagree with this document or Pope Francis needs to explain the meaning of this document......those are opinions, not judgments against a person.
The NCW and other Catholics who are not in the jungle are able to coexist peacefully. The Junglewatch nation consist of only a few Catholics. Although they are few, they are loud. As Catholics we follow the Vatican. However, Tim Rohr, the jungle's leader, had been telling his followers not to follow Rome because he believes the Vatican is corrupted.
The Junglewatch nation consist of only a few Catholics. Although they are few, they are loud.......an understatement.
DeleteNo, we'll do that ourselves, just like everything else.
people who follow this doctrine do not need Christ; God or the Church in their lives.
They can take care of everything....by themselves.
Diana, It is difficult for me to join NCW community because of time restrictions and health. However, I can be a friend of NCW.I believe we can all live together in peace.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 11:34 pm,
DeleteYou do not need to join the NCW. I also believe we can all live together in peace.
Byrnes should have kept his own opinions to himself. The purpose of his press conference was to tell about the updates with the canonical trial. If he had just stuck to that, the headlines in the newspapers would be different. If a reporter ask his opinion about Apuron's return, he could have simply said that it's up to the Pope.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 11:37 PM do you really think that "If a reporter ask his opinion about Apuron's return, he could have simply said that it's up to the Pope" makes sense? Let's see:
DeleteReporter: Archbishop Byrnes, what is your opinion about the return of Archbishop Apuron?
Byrnes: That's up to the Pope.
FYI: An opinion is a point of view or judgment about something not necessarily based on fact or knowledge and we are ALL entitled to our opinions.
FYI 2: "That's up to the Pope" is NOT an opinion.
It would be best if Archbishop Byrnes said, "no comment." If he does not have anything good to say about someone, then its better to keep quiet. Criticizing another bishop is not the proper way to start a year of reparation and it was worse that he did it publicly. This doesn't set a good example at all. As the shepherd, he should lead everyone to Jesus Christ. As the shepherd, he should teach the entire flock not to judge and to forgive. However, his judgment against his brother Bishop only led the junglewatch nation to turn to Archbishop Byrnes himself rather than to Christ. The comment below came from Tim Rohr:
Delete".........we are NOT placing any trust in the Vatican. We are placing our trust in Archbishop Byrnes, AND (and this is a big AND) ourselves!
We have shown ourselves, our Catholic community on Guam, and indeed the whole world, that we will NEVER sit down and shut up again when we see evil in our Church. Apuron will NEVER return as Archbishop of Agana, not because of any decision the Vatican may make, but because we will NEVER allow it."
When the Shepherd goes against a brother Bishop, he is only showing through his example that the sheep should also go against Archbishop Apuron. Pope Francis set a better example to the Catholic faithful when he said, "I do not see Cardinal Burke as an enemy."
Correcting each other also helps to humble us in the community. It resolves conflicts and teaches us humility.
ReplyDeleteSorry for not sticking to OP, but why did CoAB Byrnes appointment Deacon Steve as delegate to NCW who is a CCOG member and one who has spoken out publicly against AB Apuron?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 2:42 pm,
DeleteYour comment is indeed off-topic; therefore, it has a post of its own, which you can find in the weblink below:
https://neocatechemunal.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-other-side-of-story.html