Archbishop Apuron had always spoken out against abortion, casino gambling, and same sex marriage. He was aware that many Catholics were falling away from the Church as they were tempted into the secular world. This was not only happening only in Guam, but in the rest of the Christian world. The Neocatechumenal Way was brought in by Archbishop Apuron to help Catholic families in Guam. Below is a video of how the Way transmit the Catholic faith in the family through morning prayers and the communities.
What does it mean, dear Diana, that people "were tempted into the secular world"? Is there anything wrong with that? We ARE living in a secular world. The task of the Catholic is not to cut her/himself away from the secular world, but on the contrary, to demonstrate faith while being immersed and living in the secular world. You want your kids to find their place in the world while keeping their faith in Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteSecularism is what you want to condemn! Secularism states there is nothing beyond the secular. This is wrong because there is a spiritual dimension of our existence duly lived out in church setting. But living in a secular world is NOT THE SAME as secularism. Living in the secular world is an acknowledgement of the reality around us.
Dear Anonymous at 6:02 pm,
DeleteRomans 12:2. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Anon @ 6:02pm
DeleteYes, Yes there is a lot wrong with that. The problem is not the secular world in itself, it is that people are tempted to find the solution for their life and happiness in the world without God. Only in Christ there is salvation and eternal life. Only in Christ do you find happiness, as many saints have said everything else is vanity only Christ matters.
To say otherwise is to lie to those who have a humble and honest desire to find eternal life and the kingdom of God. To find meaning and happiness in life.
Conforming to this world is secularism. It means you give up your special feature as a follower of Jesus and follow the rules of this world in everything. Many people become secular because they do not follow Jesus.
DeleteBut living in a secular world cannot preclude you from following Jesus. The secular world is a reality. Just like Abp Apuron might go free after the canonical trial but the same time might be convicted in civil court. Civil law does not follow Rome or Vatican instruction. Civil law overrides whatever Vatican decides.
Therefore, even as a follower of Jesus, you must acknowledge the world around you as secular. You have to pay Caesar what is due to him. You have to obey civil court and civil authorities. Period.
Dear anon at 9:23 pm, I don't know where you live, but I live in a secular world keeping my faith in Jesus the Son of God!
DeleteImagine, I am just fine as it is! Please, care about your own temptations, that is your task. If I am tempted or not is my own business and not yours! Can you get that, please? I can take care of troubles with my Lord who was risen and is God himself.
Jesus is a more honest and powerful guide for me than you, if you excuse me. Thank you very much.
Anon @ 10:12 pm
DeleteIt's great that you are fine and content with your life, if that is what you believe. I cannot dispute your subjective perception. I can only input on objective truth. Only in Christ there is happiness and fullness because Christ is God and eternal, everything else is ephemeral and temporary. Anything that is temporary will always live you unsatisfied in the depth of your soul with a bad taste of corruption/emptiness.
Christ himself says you cannot love 2 masters because you will love one and despise the other. You cannot love both God and money. Some translations say mammon, who is the god of wealth. To love Christ you must hate the world there is no in-between or compromise to this. This is fact, even if you reason this logically you will come to this conclusion. Read the letter of Diognetus
http://www.vatican.va/spirit/documents/spirit_20010522_diogneto_en.html
It explains it very well. The soul in the body is like the christian in the world. What the body desires kills the spirit. Love for this world deprives you of the love for Christ and makes you unhappy at a deep level. Unsatisfied and empty inside. Because deep down you are looking for happiness in ephemeral and temporary things that will end when you die. However if you turn your sight towards Christ and reject everything else then you will find a fullness like all the saints have. In which death ceases to exist, and your only desire is to be with Christ. As St. Paul says how much he desires to leave this world. It is much better to be with you.
To say otherwise is to deprive others from the possibility of loving Christ and experiencing eternal life and a happiness without end or measure. Death is only the completion of that happiness in its fullness and full contemplation of him who we love. Christ the son and God the father.
My friend, all I can tell you it is you who deprive yourself from the fullness of the Gospel. Your interpretation is one sided, therefore greatly lacking and misleading. Your post-Vatican 2 zeal tells you that your position is some kind of "objective truth" which is obviously not. Your partial understanding of the Scriptures leaves you bitter and arrogant.
DeleteThe missionary zeal you produce is what is ephemeral and temporary. You convert to a skeleton of faith stripped from meaning in the world that is not the faith in the Holy Trinity God and not the skeleton of Christianity. You have to put down others so that you feel good about yourself. This is not like following Jesus.
You cannot serve both Jesus and your own ego because your inflated ego dwelling in "objective truth" will oppress your sense of a humble Jesus the Son of the living God. The mission you claim to convert to Christ will wear off because it only produces truncated truth that masks Jesus the real person. Your concept of Christ is out of sync with the real Son of God.
You only care about your own happiness that is apparently coming from lecturing others with half truths. You are not in position to judge people who live in this world and find happiness through Jesus. My family makes me happy because it was Jesus who gave me my family. My spouse makes me happy because it was Jesus who gave me my spouse. My children make me happy because it was Jesus who gave me my children. My job makes me happy because it was Jesus who gave me a job to care for my family. My profession makes me happy because it was Jesus who gave me knowledge of the world so that I can live in it as His follower. My life makes me happy because it was Jesus who gave me a life so that I can devote it to Him.
You see my friend, you cannot really do anything about my happiness and this is what irks you with no end making you jealous and impatient. Because I am just fine with Jesus who gave us a full Gospel and I don't need your truncated "objective truth" to be a Christian.
Dear Anonymous at 11:56 am,
DeleteTrue happiness comes only from Christ because He is the source of true happiness. We should love Christ MORE than our spouse and even MORE than our children. We appreciate Christ MORE than the things He gives is. All that He has given us are good, but only Christ brings true happiness.
Temporary happiness comes from our spouse and children because they are not perfect, and sometimes we argue with them. Our jobs also bring us temporary happiness because our jobs are also not perfect in that it sometimes brings us much stress and anxiety. Your life on earth is also temporary. Perfect happiness is found only through Christ, who is perfect in all ways.
Diana, please, do not preach above my head. Your argument has nothing to do with mine. I told you the source of my joy and happiness is Jesus, because He have me my family, my spouse, my children, my job, my profession, my whole life. Your perfectionism leave by 100% cold. I am sorry but I just cannot care about your concept of 'perfect' because I know that we live in an imperfect world.
DeleteMy Lord Jesus loves me as I am, as an imperfect creation who nevertheless acknowledges Him
---- as His creator,
---- the Son of God
---- who was resurrected and
---- who is God Himself!
You see, you just cannot do anything about it even as your post-Vatican 2 indoctrination doesn't allow you to let other people go on with their traditional Catholic faith. You feel a need to interfere, meddle and tell others how they should be. This is wrong. This is the consequence of a faulty understanding of the Vatican 2 spirituality.
To make a long story short, you just cannot mask and replace the face of Jesus from Christianity! He is the very essence of our faith. Accommodating a faulty spiritual approach and prescribed expectation to faith and the one true Holy Trinity God might give you ephemeral and temporary satisfaction. But in the long run, it is only Jesus who satisfies body and soul.
Dear Anonymous at 8:06 pm,
DeleteWe do not teach anything different. You are correct that Jesus loves us just as we are, but He also called us to be holy. That is what we preach. Who said that we replace the face of Jesus from Christianity?
It appears that the problem is whether you accept Vatican II as a legitimate council. It is a legitimate council. Christ, who is Perfect, does not make a mistake in guiding His Church.
Dear Anonymous at 8:06 pm,
DeleteWe do not teach anything different. You are correct that Jesus loves us just as we are, but He also called us to be holy. That is what we preach. Who said that we replace the face of Jesus from Christianity?
It appears that the problem is whether you accept Vatican II as a legitimate council. It is a legitimate council. Christ, who is Perfect, does not make a mistake in guiding His Church.
Diana, does this apply to the council at Trent, as well?
DeleteAnon @ 6:22pm
DeleteYes it does. The council of trent was necessary for the faithful of the time and to protect the church from heresies. Now the church in its wisdom has had the II Vatican Council as the answer to secularism for our times. It is correct for our times and legitimate as well as necessary to reach the man of today and guide him to holiness.
Again it is common knowledge that the Council of Trent is not even the tradition of the church but an answer to the times. An answer to heresies and Protestantism. We live in different times. A time in which the Church has seen the need to lift the Council of Trent and return to its traditions and the vibrancy of the announcement of the good news as in the time of the evangelists.
Anon @ 11:56 am
DeleteHalf truth? Not objective?
You are not even disputing the interpretations themselves only discrediting them without an actual argument. My interpretation is based on the holy fathers and the lives of saints. It is based on what the apostle's taught. Your dispute is based solely on bias interpretation and a desire to return to pre-vatican council II state. A state in which the faithful could not reach the entirety of the Gospel or have access to Christ.
You seem to want to deprive people of this. Council of Trent did not allow people to become familiar with scripture or church teachings.
Again your only dispute is to state what makes YOU happy (what is more subjective than this). I am stating what the gospel and catechism states as necesarry to be Christian and become a son of God. Read todays (6/19/2017) reading in morning prayer from Saint Cipriano bishop and martyr and his words on the Our father. Those who received his word gave them the power to become children of God and call him father. This means that we are in a state of not being children of God till we receive the Gospel. Part of that Gospel, the the young man states. He wished to received eternal life. The young man stated his followed the commandments. We could say he went to mass every Sunday, he prayed he was a good faithful. Christ will tell him you have one thing left to do. Go sell all your possessions and give it to the poor, without your right hand knowing what your left is doing. Do this and you will have made a treasure in heaven. (Eternal life).
This is not just for the religious life, since the young man was not a priest nor where there convents or monasteries this is for all who wish wholeheartedly to follow Christ.
Again this is not subjective opinion this is scripture, saints and fathers of the church.
You criticize my arguments or the lack of them. Very well. It is very easy to help then. Please, ask Diana that she publishes my arguments and does not throw them away without ever publishing. It is just too tiresome to craft an argument against your heresies and then not being able to discuss its merits because of censorship. Thanks, this is not my game!
DeleteMy friend, I have told you already, the full Gospel message is the complexity of the teachings of our Lord. You cherry pick here and there and simply omit over there and lo a heresy is already full blown. Your Kiko cherry picks what fits his politically correct preconception and omits the counter arguments altogether, thus truncating the message of Jesus and reduce it into something different from the intention of our Lord.
DeleteYes, you have to look at the intention of Jesus, not the politically correct nonsense that you try to convert it into. This Sunday our Lord preached to the Jews:
Jesus said to the Jewish crowds:
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven;
whoever eats this bread will live forever;
"Amen, amen, I say to you,
unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood,
you do not have life within you.
(John 6:51-58)
Even in the Sequence of St. Thomas Aquinas you hear:
Now the new the old effaces,
Truth away the shadow chases,
Light dispels the gloom of night.
Meditate and contemplate these Words of Jesus, please, before you give in again to the urge of lecturing others with half truths and a truncated message. You are only desperate to mask the face of the Lord out of the fullness of the Gospel.
Anon @ 12:55 am
DeleteI respectfully fail to see your point on cherry picking. If anything the verses you quoted strengthen the previous argument. This is why it isn't a kiko thing. Because it is actually a perfect harmony of every word and period in scripture.
The statement you make actually makes more sense with the previous argument. The eat his bread drink his wine. If you continue reading that passage he tells his disciples that to follow him means to drink his same cup. If you read different gospels and study what it refers to you will see that every time he speaks this way he is referring to his death and resurrection.
Isn't it Christ the first who rejected all worldly possessions and as he says even his own life when he forfeited his life on the cross. Because he is the resurrection.
Everytime people ask to follow him he repeatedly says throughout the gospels you must hate the world and even your own life. The story of the young man is no different. I can quote hundreds of things that make reference to that statement. While the quotes you are using actually strengthen it.
"mask the lord","fullness of the Gospel". Again you gave three lines with no real interpretation. We are just suppose to believe they are truth because you attempt to be as eloquent as possible. Anyways whatever.
Dear anon, Jesus did not reject earthly possession. You are wrong about this. He enjoyed the hospitality of rich people throughout His life. He used to be invited for meal. His best friend, Lazarus, who lived with Martha and Maria, owned a mansion. Jesus never asked them to sell the mansion.
DeleteYour very own Kiko had built a luxurious dwelling at Domus Galileaea. He does not have the slightest intention to sell it and give the money to the poor. Please, preach with your mouth where your foot is!
Giving up earthly possession is a purely spiritual thing. You cut the spiritual inclination of your body to earthly things. Once you cut the bound you are free to keep it, because it does not matter anymore. Everything important in life is spiritual.
Dear anon at 9:51 pm, you say it is "necessary to be Christian and become a son of God". The two things are not the same! To be Christian is to follow the teaching of Jesus. However, you cannot be a "son of God". Sorry, but the title has been taken already.
DeleteMy Lord Jesus is the Son of God! Nobody else can be because the title of God is unique: Shema Israel...
Dear Anonymous at 12:08 am,
DeleteGod desires to have a very close relationship with His Church that He shares His title with them. For example, Christ is called the good "Shepherd". The bishops of His Church are also called "shepherds". Christ is called the "Rock". Peter was called "rock." According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
441 In the Old Testament, "son of God" is a title given to the angels, the Chosen People, the children of Israel, and their kings. It signifies an adoptive sonship that establishes a relationship of particular intimacy between God and his creature. When the promised Messiah-King is called "son of God", it does not necessarily imply that he was more than human, according to the literal meaning of these texts. Those who called Jesus "son of God", as the Messiah of Israel, perhaps meant nothing more than this.
Diana do you honestly believe Archbishop A sablan can return as leader of Guam? Impossible.
ReplyDeleteEven if innocent of all charges he would never gain respect of others. I already know one priest sayinf if he returns as archbishop he will work to make problems for him. So best he retires we move on.
Dear Anonymous at 4:38 pm,
DeleteSpeak for yourself. There are many people who support Archbishop Apuron. If found innocent of all charges and returned as Archbishop, the majority of Catholics will follow the decision of Pope Francis.
Diana, Majority of Guam Catholics will not accept Archbishop back in Guam. Even if he did return people would insult him in public. That reflects badly on Church. He could never keep order here again. No. He should retire early.Guam will never welcome him as a native son.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 9:01 am,
DeleteThe Junglewatch Nation does not represent the majority of Catholics. They are a loud small minority.
In fact, the number of protesters have even dwindled. Most people are starting to suspect that many of these alleged victims coming out are only doing it for the money. Even their lawyer, Attorney Lujan, admitted that he is only out for the money. He never said anything about justice.
Diana @ 11:03 AM: The reason the number of protestors has dwindled is because many of them are on vacation. There are some who have arranged their lives around the protests but not all can do that.
DeleteYes, there are probably alleged victims who are not victims at all but there are enough who are REAL survivors of child sexual abuse at the hands of clergy. And of course Attorney Lujan is out for the money. That's what ALL lawyers are about (even Jackie Terlaje).
Dear Anonymous at 9:58 pm,
DeleteThe numbers dwindled before the summer began. And not all lawyers are out for money.
jackie is not out for money do you ever hear that she is outfor money no because is the sh*t of the devil and when thee brothers go out for next months 2by2 they are not going take any suitcases clothes and another thing that they are not going to be living on is money because we don't live on bread alone but gods province
Delete@ anon 9:01AM....
ReplyDeleteSpeak for yourself.....you are not the majority of catholics here in Guam..
Your beggining to remind me of the Passion of Christ.....
May God console all your hate and anger....