It is said that humility is the only weapon that can destroy the Devil. And this is true. Christ humbled Himself to the cross, and death was destroyed. We are called to be true Christians like Christ. We are called to the cross. Christ said to take up our cross and come follow Him. And where did Christ go? He died on the cross. This is what it means to be a disciple of Christ......to be a "Christian." The Christians of the Early Centuries were often misunderstood by their persecutors. They were often feared and hated. People usually fear and hate what they do not understand. Unlike the others who worshiped their gods in the temples, the Early Christians had no temples because they understood that their bodies were the temple of the Holy Spirit. When people got to know the Christians, then their fear and hatred dissipated. We saw through Sacred Scripture that the first place the Apostles preached were in the synagogues. The Apostles were Jewish. The good news was spread in the synagogues first, but the Jews didn't like the Apostles preaching to them, so they were kicked out of the synagogues. Then they preached to the Gentiles. The first people who called themselves "Christians" were the converts in Antioch. Christianity grew among the Gentiles like wildfire. So, brothers be humble. Our mission is to spread the Gospel of Christ to the entire world. Our mission is to be the light of the world so that those who see the light of Christ in us can also praise God our Father. Our mission is to be the salt of the earth. This salt dies so that others may live.
John 15:13-19 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my command: Love each other. “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.
Diana, the salt is a mineral. A mineral is not going to "die". Salt is also present dissolved in the ocean water. Some people like the taste of the salt, some others don't. Some people become sick if the eat salty food. Sodium replaces salt in some canned food. In countries with a winter salt is poured on the roads and pedestrian walks to avoid icing. beyond loose associations that Jesus made about the salt, it is really strange to attach any serious theology to the salt.
Salt dies when it dissolves. And when it dissolves, it makes even the soup taste better.
Matthew 5:13. “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
Christ was the light that could not be extinguished. Christ died and his death and resurrection brought redemption.
Diana, one has the impression that you have to read the Bible first before you can properly quote it. In New York City, every December a lot of salt, mostly industrial salt that is unsuitable for consumption, is poured on the roads and sidewalks to protect against icing. So the salt, when it loses saltiness, is still salt to be used underfoot.
“You are the salt of the earth." What does this mean? It means you have to have a particular flavor, otherwise people won't like you. This flavor is the innocent suffering and death of Jesus that we all keep on our heart. Our anguish above the carcass of the Lord Jesus is epitomized by the Pieta, by the pain of the Virgin Mother.
Considering the fact that biblical Israel did not have any modern industries, I highly doubt that scripture was referring to an industrial salt. I also doubt that the phrase "you are the salt of the earth" means that we are to have a particular flavor in order for people to like us. After all, Christ taught us to love all people. Whether people like us or not is not our problem. The problem is theirs.
Dear Anon at 4:52 pm What you are saying makes no sense and has no theological backing. You CANNOT just invent an interpretation of the bible. Otherwise you can just call yourself protestant. The tradition of the Catholic Church can not be divided from scripture. The tradition and teachings the apostle's passed down in writings like the filocalia as well as letters cannot be ignored. Aside from the fact that when Christ made that statement, he had not yet died or suffered. In other words there was no pain to be felt. However what we do know that Christ taught was to give one's own life for his enemies. The sermon on the mount which include the first 4 chapters of Matthew, and if I am not mistaken includes the statement of the salt, presents the image of the new man in Christ. A man created in the likeness of Christ. We where all created in this image, but destroyed this image in us because of original sin. The sermon on the mount speaks saying if anyone strikes your cheek, offer the right cheek. If anyone asks you to walk a mile offer 2. If someone asks for your cloak offer your robe. If you read it in it's entirety it is an offering of one's own existence for love of the other including the enemy. After reading all this and coming to the line, "you are the salt of the earth". It is easily understood that to be salt means to die to one's own existential happiness for the other. You will find this referenced time and time again in the letters as well. "for when we die the world receives life" etc. Again, everything in the bible should be a theological matter. Yes coal dies, but the only furthers the truth Christ was conveying. In order to give fruits of eternal life one must die. john 12:23f "Jesus replied to them: Now the hour has come for the Son of man to be glorified. In all truth I tell you, unless a wheat grain falls into the earth and dies, it remains only a single grain; but if it dies it yields a rich harvest." You are welcome to continue reading to the end of the chapter. We just don't reference coal, because Christ did not reference it. So using coal to equate salt is irrelevant. In nature, as with the grain of seed, everything must die to bear fruit or serve it's purpose. But when we die we resurrect with him because death was destroyed. Both existentially and physically. Theology is what helps properly interpret scripture based on Catholic traditions.
"Theology is what helps properly interpret scripture based on Catholic traditions." That is why you should study real theology that is the truthful teaching of the Catholic Church. You don't get eternal life from a mineral, a piece of salt or coal or the electricity in the wall! You are saying the seed will have new life in the plant that grows out of it. What plant is growing out of your salt? What plant is growing out of your coal?
Please, do not confuse chemistry, the science of materials with biology, the science of life. This is an unhealthy mixture that leads you to non-standard, twisted theology that is in conflict with common sense and with the teaching of the church.
No decent theologian had ever said the salt is "dying". It is in some unpublished works of Kiko Arguello, inspired by Carmen Hernandez, who are not theologians. They acted as lay people in the church to enforce biblical interpretations. It is them who re-interpret the Bible apart from the teaching of the Catholic Church. The NCW Dictionary had to be corrected by inserting hundreds and hundreds of footnotes so that the faithful is not mislead.
Please NOTE that YOU are the ONLY one who brought up Kiko Arguello and Carmen Hernandez. Anonymous 10:44 pm, on the other hand, cited the Holy Bible and the teaching traditions of the Catholic Church. The reason YOU brought out Kiko Arguello and Carmen Hernandez was because your conscience recognized the truth of what was said, and sometimes.....the truth hurts.
"It is easily understood that to be salt means to die to one's own existential happiness for the other." No, it does not say that. I don't know what is your concept of "easily understood", but I do have difficulty with your interpretation.
In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus talks about the conscious choice of living like a Christian. It is not about sacrificing your happiness but finding happiness in serving others. It is a teaching on radical love and radical Christianity! It is not about resigning to your enemy, but on giving up the very concept of the enemy. It is about identifying yourself with your enemy to such a degree that would eliminate the distinction, we would all become one in Christ. If I and my enemy are unified in radical love as one, then we are not really enemies at all! The fundamental unity of you with your enemy is exactly the radical teaching of Jesus that could rid the world from all hatred and murder.
The salt is a flavor that would spice up your food. When you are the salt of the world, then you spice up the life of your neighbor. You spice them up so that they choose consciously to live as Christians. The salt itself cannot make a conscious choice, because it is void of consciousness. A follower of Christ is a Christian who is conscious of the suffering of the Lord, mourns for His death and rejoices over His bodily resurrection. Jesus died as the Son of God and not as a piece of salt. When you die, you die as a Christian, not as a mineral.
Please, refer to any decent theologian's work that says the salt "dies". You won't be able to do so because no such theologian or piece of work in theology exists! I would be glad to repudiate what I am saying here if you would be able to bring any single example like that. Thanks!
To be salt of the earth means that we are two love our neighbor as Christ loved us. And how did Christ love us? He DIED for us. We are not called to have a particular flavor so that people would like us. The goal was never to get people to like us. There were only two commandments that Christ told us to follow: 1) Love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength and 2) love your neighbor as Christ loves us. These two fulfills all the laws and prophets.
So, how does one love as Christ loves? Christ died. This is why He said, pick up your cross and follow me. The salt was not meant to be kept to ourselves. It was meant to be given to others so that others may live. The beatitudes explains the attitude of a Christian and how he/she should live as a Christian.
1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.
Jesus is our Savior, indeed, Diana! But it has nothing to do with the salt. In particular, nothing with the salt "dying". You don't give salt to others so that they may live! How can you live on salt? You give them food, cloths, cover and love so that they may live.
Salt and light are metaphors. When the Holy Bible says "be the salt of the earth", it does not mean that we are to transform ourselves into the mineral salt. Salt is used to enhance food. When you do not put salt in the soup, it tastes bland. When salt is put into the food, it dissolves, giving food a tasty flavor.
To be like salt is be like Christ who not only showed compassion, but who also sacrificed His life to save others. As the 1st letter of John says,"This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters."
Dear anon @ 18:45, 2:29, 5:53 The statement that you get eternal life from salt was never made, therefor your argument is irrelevant. The only statement made is this: To be salt means to be christian. To be Christian means to imitate Christ who is the new man. If we go by the new man as explained in the sermon of the mount. The new man is he who dies for his enemies. This is not to say that the truth is not spoken. But the enemy wishes to kill you, and in the moment where he does so, you accept it as Christ did. Christ loved those who killed him. This is something irrefutable. So it only makes sence to say that to be salt means to die for love of the other. Sartre says the other is hell, because it is easy to see that the other becomes our enemy. In Christianity the other is Christ.
You gain eternal life by loving Christ above all things. THe consequence of loving CHrist is that you love your neighbor including your enemy as Christ did, because God's will is for ALL to be saved. The sermon of the mount does speak about what it means to be Christian. However when read in it's entirety and understood, to practice what it says, one must die existentially. It means to give up your own happiness. However this also holds true physically. Again always saying the truth to your enemies. However when the moment of truth comes you do not kill to uphold the truth, you die to uphold the truth. While those who kill you, kill you to uphold their truth. Christ did not force his OWN people to his truth but died for them. It is funny that you say "decent" theologian. This only means that you have a bias and do not take the argument for its validity. Arguments based on authority only mean something when you believe their authority. To be Christian means to die for your enemy. Love your enemy means to die for them. As Diana pointed out. There is no greater love then to die for your friends. As you stated, in christ enemies are friends, and there is no greater love then to die for them. I just don't understand what is being argued here. The statements being made hold true. Even if you refuse to see salt as having that meaning. It still holds true, that to die for the enemy is the ultimate christian behavior. To say otherwise is to mock the deaths of martyrs throughout history. Last of all 5:53. Again a statement based on something that was never said. Never was it said that you give salt to love the other. The remark made is based on the properties of salt. Salt's purpose is to give flavor to food, and it does so by dissipating in it, and dies and gives flavor. In Christ's world, salt was a commodity, a spice afforded by the rich. Whether you don't believe in kiko or carmen as an authority is irrelevant since the prefect for the congregation of faith has approved this interpretation as being Catholic tradition.
All I asked for was a reference for the salt "dying" in the theological literature. You are apparently unable to come up with such a reference.
One has hard time to understand why do you stick to the salt as something that "dies". Jesus talks about the mustard seed that is a piece of biology, a living thing. You may associate life with a mustard seed but how can you do the same with the salt? You may associate dying with something/ somebody that/ who had life in it in the past. But how can you associate dying with a mineral that has never had any life in it?
Jesus never said salt can die. It is Him who could die for us because He had life in Him before. Jesus is fundamentally different from a mineral. That is why He was able to die on the cross. He was incarnate and dwelt among us. Otherwise how could have He died for us?
I do not think the word "salt" is the problem. I think the problem is that you do not understand what "dissolve" mean. According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, dissolve is also defined as coming to an end.
You should not read the Holy Bible as a science textbook because the writers did not write in scientific terms. In their perspective, when the salt dissolves, it comes to an end.
Dear Anon at 1:27pm Not every word in the bible has a direct piece of literature by theologians to explain its meaning. However for your pleasure let me provide this:
Salt is an article of the most necessary for the life of man (Eclo 39,26); Thus "eating the salt of the palace" (Ezra 4, 14) means receiving the "salary" from the king (cf. lat. Salt). Salt makes food tasty (Job 6: 6). By having the property of preserving them (Bar. 6:27), it signifies the lasting value of a contract: a "covenant of salt" (Num. 18:19) is a perpetual covenant, as God's covenant with David (2Pe 13: 5). Among the words of Jesus that remain obscure, are those that concern the metaphor of salt. "If the salt loses its taste, what shall it be salted with?" (Lk 14:34, Mark 9:50). According to a possible first sense, in relation to the "salt of the covenant," this would mean that if the covenant with the Lord is broken, it can not be resumed. According to Matthew's interpretation, The believer must be "the salt of the earth" (Mt 5,13), that is, he must preserve and make the world of men tasteful in his covenant with God. Otherwise, it is useless, and the disciples deserve to be thrown out (Le 14,35). But "good is the salt; So that you may have salt in yourselves and be with one another in peace "(Mk 9, 50), words of which one might find a comment in Paul:" Let your word always be kind, seasoned with salt, knowing how you must Directing to each one in particular "(Col 4,6). -
theological definition of salt. One of them.
According to this it is up to the disciples to give flavor to the life of men by preserving the covenant. If we are to research what the covenant is in Christ as fulfilled and brought to fruition we would again reach the conclusion of loving the enemy and dying for him. For the people of Israel the covenant's fruition is the promised land. For the Christian it is eternal life which is promised to us in Christ. The complete destruction of death and the power it has over us, as St. Paul speaks about. The result of eternal life is the capacity to love your enemy when they want to destroy you because they reject the truth. In this understanding we can see that the way the salt brings the truth (which is what gives men's life flavor and is eternal life) is by dissolving and dying so that men can see death has been destroyed. I just want to point out that you are actually making a heretical claim by saying Christ was able to die on the cross because he was Christ. By making this claim you are dividing the divinity of Christ from his humanity. Christ is both fully human and fully divine. It is not because he was divine that he was able to suffer. The reason it is a heresy is because it demeans his purpose and mission. Which is that he extends eternal life to us, and so we are able to do the same as him and become his imitators. As the disciples and martyrs before us. Otherwise we would never receive the promise.
Salt preserves from corruption. It purifies. Hence in the previous verse, Mark 9, 49: " Everyone will be salted with fire."
ie purified
Disciples are called to preserve the world from corruption; to purify it through the teaching and person of Christ.
It may be that the salt "dies", in your words, as it effects its preserving function, but your obsession with existentialism is simply self-indulgent and boring.
Dear anon, I hope Diana will allow this little chat to come to a fair conclusion. Thank you for confirming that you are unable to quote anything about the salt "dying". Of course, because it an obvious misnomer. I see in the first part of your comment you just collected the quotes about salt from the Bible. Thanks for providing the origins of the Bible quotes. Still nothing about the salt "dying". But weren't you supposed to quote from a theologian? Or do you think you are one?
In the second part you elaborate on your existentialist speculation about Christianity. I find it quite interesting, even if cannot be supported by facts. Your inclination to existentialism is remarkable. Did you know Sartre was a cardholder member in the communist party? Perhaps, next time you bring up Gramsci who was fascinated by the skills of Jesuits. https://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/1924/03/vatican.htm
Your speculation that one has to die to be a Christian is easily tested by your own existence. I don;t see you to the front line against the ISIS perhaps because you are afraid of losing your sharpness by beheading. Contrary to what you preach one can die for Christ if one has to. Christian martyrs are the evidence. One can also choose to live for those one loves.
Christ died for me to redeem me from my sin. I caused His death by mot acknowledging Him as my God and my Savior. It is the greatest sin possible. That is why St. Thomas the apostle is saying "my Lord and my God". One has to mourn and weep bitterly because one killed Jesus by not believing in Him. You have to contemplate the suffering face of Jesus over and over again to be able to grasp the depravity in your own heart that sent the Son of God to cruel suffering and death. This is source of Christianity. Your pain and suffering over your stubbornness of not yielding to Jesus. When you repent, He will embrace you and you will be safe.
How did you think Christ "purified" our sins? Christ died for the forgiveness of sins. What does not mean to you? Christ is the light of the world and He is also a salt because He can purifiy sins.
The Holy Bible says be to holy and and perfect as our Father in Heaven is holy and perfect. Christ is the light of the world, and we are called to a light. We are also called to be the salt of the earth because Christ is also salt who purified man through His death and resurrection.
The fact is no where in Catholic teaching does it claim that we are to acquire a certain flavor so everyone will like us. I am actually surprised that you did not questioned this kind of theology. This is not Catholic theology.
Dear Anon The text quoted is from the Theologian Leon Dufour. It is about the salt referring as in its meaning to the covenant. If you want me to quote more about the covenant and how it is fulfilled in Christ as he gives us eternal life through his death I'd be glad to do so. Although I said not everything has a direct interpretation. It so happens salt does, and so I provided a quote from Leon Dufour a respected theologian.
Anon at 8:41 Indeed Christ died for your sins. But if you would study more about sin you'd also see that sin is a biproduct of not having eternal life. St. Paul says we are a slave to sin because of the fear of death. So then Christ died not only to redeem our sin, but to give us eternal life (the promise). Otherwise it is like dropping charges on a men who is in jail but not releasing him from jail. If Christ did not provide a path for us to have life in us and be able to not sin, then it is like we where never freed.
Dear anon at 2:05 am, you point on existentialism might be right on target. Sartre says existentialism is not about happiness but about free choice. He says your existence is coming before your essence, therefore the choice you make defines who you are.
The speculation about existential happiness that you read about in the comments is non-existing! Sartre is very firm about this: you are what you are not and you are not what you are. This existential feature of the being prevents any kind of happiness of the essence.
Sartre was not only a communist, he also cheated on his wife, named Simone Beauvoir. This woman was a famous apostate, a militant feminist who habitually engaged in sex with her your adult male students.
I don't think sin is a "byproduct". Sin is the very essence of our earthly life. We were all created in the image of God. Therefore we are sinners when we don't follow on God's commandments.
Is there "a path for us to have life in us and be able to not sin"? Ask Diana, please, who says we are all irredeemable sinners from birth up until our death.
Anon @ 11:03am At this point you are illogically nitpicking. The argument was made and is valid. It is about the properties of salt in reference to the likeness of a christian and how he keeps the covenant by loving christ. The law is to love God (Christ) and neighbor. Love Christ equals eternal life, love neighbor equals dying for them. End of Argument. If salt equates these same features, then it refers to how it dissolves and dies as well. It is a perfectly valid interpretation in line with Catholic Theology.
Ahh, now you say "in line with Catholic Theology"... Oh well, this sound differently from your previous statement that it is "part of" the Catholic teaching. The church teaches that it is only the living things that can die, non-living things cannot. By the way, you claim "in line", according to who??
You stated: "The church teaches that it is only the living things that can die, non-living things cannot."
For your information, the Church teaches that Christ is the ROCK (See 1 Corinthians 10:4) and that Peter is also a rock on which Christ built His Church. And a rock is NOT living; yet, the Church also taught that both these rocks (Christ and Peter) died. Therefore, your comment is not in line with Church teaching at all.
@Anon. 5:24 pm, Scripture calls us (people) to be the salt of the earth. If people are to be "salt" and people can die, then it is logical to conclude that the inspired author of the Bible is saying that the salt can die. Diana gave an excellent analogy of the "rock". Light, salt, and rock are metaphors ascribed to living beings. The idea that only living things can die comes from scientific reason. However, this does not mean that the Catholic faith is contrary to reason. Faith and reason go hand in hand; however, faith is much higher than scientific reason.
Being a rock, a piece of salt or a ray of light is about emphasizing one quality in a material thing that otherwise is useful for beings: The rock is firm, as St, Peter had to be firm. The Christian is the salt of the earth because s/he gives a special flavor to the earth. The light is what brightens up darkness, allows us to see. Jesus is the light of the world.
Being the salt of the earth means being socially conscious. We must be mindful of the suffering of the poor, the downtrodden, the widow, the orphan, the divorcees, the single mom, the unskilled, the unemployed, etc. It is a social fact that unemployment benefit and welfare payment work only temporarily. What you rather need is good and fair education system, new workplaces, new jobs, access to healthcare, equal opportunity.
You are a Christian if you can improve the quality of the life of the poor just as the salt improves the flavor of the soup. Quality life for the poor can be accomplished by social change. This is the duty of all Christians. Seeing the suffering face of Christ in the face of the poor of the society. If you are not for positive change, then you are not a Christian.
Social consciousness has always been a central topic of the speeches of Pope Francis. Helping the poor is not about refinancing poverty by monetary donation. It is not about making the population dependent of cash influx. Helping the poor is vying for change in the social environment so that one may get help to improve one's life by one's own effort.
Everybody is a child of God. Everybody deserves a chance in the life. Even the poor children of the poorest. This is what Jesus teaches to the Christian!
This is fundamentally wrong! The other is not your enemy. The other is your sister and brother. There is no such thing as enemy. Unless you wage a physical war against others nobody can point out any living creature as you enemy.
Dear anon at 12:44 p.m. this mus be the opposite way around. Your brother is the other. You are the self and your brother is the other. Jesus is God, he is not "other".
Rene Girard follows existential (re)interpretation of the Bible. Chuck White found that the NCW's theology is basically from Girard. But Chuck says Girard recanted later and then why NCW would not recant?!
Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. So how can you say He is the other? How can He be other than He was? This does not add up to me. But again, I might be wrong. I don't know existentialism. Do you need to read Sartre to be a Christian?
The early Christians did not have a temple because they were poor and were kicked out of the synagogues as you said. The Jewish Synod of Jamnia in the mid-80s of the 1st century excommunicated the Christians from Judaism for two reasons:
1. first, because of the divinity of Jesus, and 2. second, the repudiation of Torah dietary laws and circumcision.
It took time for Christians to get enough wealth to build their own churches. Already in the early middle ages awesome Catholic/ Christian churches and cathedrals were built all around the world, in Europe and in Rome.
You stated: "The Early Christians had no temples because they understood that their bodies were the temple of the Holy Spirit." This was not the reason! Knowing that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit helps to fight sin. Sin cannot enter the temple of the Holy Spirit, exactly because the Spirit is holy!
But the Catholic church needed buildings for proper remembrance of the death and resurrection of Jesus, the founder of our faith, so they build churches and cathedrals all around the world. Have you ever been in an awesome big cathedral that truly lifts your earthly spirit high up to the Lord Jesus? If you have never had the experience, then you would not appreciate the beauty of Christian architecture.
They were kicked out of the synagogues because the Jewish people believed that the Jewish Apostles were preaching heretical things. The Jews did not recognize the Messiah whom they all knew from their Torah was coming. And yes, the Jewish Apostles also preached against the dietary laws and circumcision of the Jews......which they believe is heretical.
The reason church buildings were built was because of the growth of Christianity. The Early Christians held the Eucharist in the home. As more and more people were converted, you cannot fill them into a person's home. The gathering had to take place outside the home until a building was erected. The true temple is the body. When Christ said, he will build His Church.....He was referring to an assembly of people, not to any stone building. People are more important to God than stone buildings because man was made in God's image and likeness.
The heretical thing was the divinity of Jesus! Just imagine, Diana, the Jewish education told them about a God above the clouds, sitting in the heaven. A powerful and very strong God, who could do anything He wished. Now, a homeless wanderer, as they saw Jesus to be, comes and tells them he is divine. How could they believe?!
This is the reason Jesus had to die. Nobody believed him to be God. That is why His followers were kicked out of the synagogues. Because they claimed Jesus is divine. Can you believe this? How can a homeless sojourner be divine, the Son of God and resurrected? Is this not crazy?
They were kicked out of the synagogues because they believed they were preaching heresy. While it is true that the Jewish Apostles believed that Jesus is God, they also believed that He was the Messiah whom the Jews waited for many centuries. Their prophets spoke about the Messiah. This was what the Prophet Isaiah said to the Israelites:
Isaiah 9:5. For a child is born to us, a son is given us; upon his shoulder dominion rests. They name him Wonder-Counselor, God-Hero, Father-Forever, Prince of Peace.
Like the Apostles, there were many Jews who looked at the prophecy of Isaiah and understood the above verse to mean that this child would be the Son of God, one with God, and is God. After all, how does one explain what Isaiah meant when he said that the name of the son is "Everlasting Father"? It was the fault of the Pharisees that they chose not to believe their prophets, misunderstood their own scripture, and called their fellow Jews "heretics".
Anon at 2:33pm Christians did not begin building Temples till the renaissance. In fact most of the first Christian temples were roman temples that where re-purposed. (in any other religion this would be considered heretical) This only shows that they did not have a temple. Just want to reference the bible. Christ was posed this exact question by the Samaritan women. John 4:20-23 "Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, though you say that Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.'
21 Jesus said: Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know; for salvation comes from the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming -- indeed is already here -- when true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: that is the kind of worshipper the Father seeks."
and again he says:
Mt 6:6 "6 But when you pray, go to your private room, shut yourself in, and so pray to your Father who is in that secret place, and your Father who sees all that is done in secret will reward you." I could continue quoting all day. Christ says you are the temple of the holy spirit. Again he says I will destroy this temple and rebuild it in 3 days referring to his own body. The Christian has no temple, because in Christ all is made holy. Another quote, "there where there are 2 or 3 gathered in my name I will be made present." Refering to that Christ has no temple where you can find him specifically. Even quoting contemporary Saints like St. Augustine. "Late have I loved you, O beauty ever ancient, ever new, late have I loved you! You were within me, but I was outside, and it was there that I searched for you." He referred that he looked for Christ always externally where it was within him, as we are the temple, that he found Christ.
Jesus claimed co-equality with God! This was sacrilege and abomination in contemporary theological view. Even today non-Christians reject Jesus as Son of God and deny his resurrection.
"The Christian has no temple." But we have church where we go to worship God and adore the Savior. If you don't mourn, don't feel the pain when you look at the dead God on the cross in the front of your church, whom you killed and crucified by your sin of denying Him, then you are a person of no mercy, no faith, no true belief in God the Savior, our Lord Jesus.
Jesus is in my heart. That is why I come to the church to worship Him if the Holy Sacrament and pray to Him with the faithful of my parish in the presence of his holy, consecrated altar where He was sacrificed, and keeps being sacrificed over and over in the Eucharist, for me and you.
The reason I wear a crucifix is to remind me of the price Christ paid for my sins. It is not only in Church where I see the crucifix. In Egypt, the Church has been bombed by terrorists, but the Christians can still see Christ despite that they no longer have a Church. Nevertheless, these persecuted Christians can still have the Eucharist even without a Church. In fact, the Early Christians in Rome held their Eucharist in the catacombs.
As Anonymous 11:03 pm pointed out:
This only shows that they did not have a temple. Just want to reference the bible. Christ was posed this exact question by the Samaritan women. John 4:20-23 "Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, though you say that Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.'
21 Jesus said: Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know; for salvation comes from the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming -- indeed is already here -- when true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: that is the kind of worshipper the Father seeks."
and again he says:
Mt 6:6 "6 But when you pray, go to your private room, shut yourself in, and so pray to your Father who is in that secret place, and your Father who sees all that is done in secret will reward you." I could continue quoting all day. Christ says you are the temple of the holy spirit. Again he says I will destroy this temple and rebuild it in 3 days referring to his own body. The Christian has no temple, because in Christ all is made holy. Another quote, "there where there are 2 or 3 gathered in my name I will be made present." Refering to that Christ has no temple where you can find him specifically.
"The large worldwide institution known as the Apostleship of Prayer is a creation of the Jesuits. It embraces 26 million adherents divided into communities of 15 people. Each of these is headed by a male and female ‘fervent’. They distribute a periodical that is published in 51 different editions and in 39 languages, including six Indian dialects, one Madagascan, etc. It has one and a half million subscribers and a total print run of ten million.
The Apostleship of Prayer is undoubtedly one of the best religious propaganda organisations. It would be interesting to study its methods. With very simple means it manages to exercise an enormous influence on large masses of the rural population, arousing a religious fanaticism and promoting the policies best suited to the interests of the church."
Gramci became a Catholic before he died: "Antonio Gramsci reverted to the Catholic faith - Archbishop Luigi De Magistris, former head of the Apostolic Penitentiary of the Holy See said rumours that Gramsci had reverted had never until now been confirmed, and the Italian Left had also remained silent on the issue. But that is how it was, he told Vatican Radio. Gramsci returned to the faith of his infancy."
It was Anonymous April 14, 2017 at 8:31 am who FIRST brought up Gramsci. He/she was the FIRST person who wrote about him. According to Anonymous 8:31 am:
"Perhaps, next time you bring up Gramsci who was fascinated by the skills of Jesuits."
This was an odd comment to make because no one else under the thread brought up Gramsci except the person who made the comment above. He/She was the one who mentioned the name first, and it was made in response to Anonymous April 12, 2017 at 10:13 pm, who made no mention of Gramsci.
Anonymous at 10:13 pm only mentioned Sartre. According to Anonymous 10:13 pm:
"Sartre says the other is hell, because it is easy to see that the other becomes our enemy. In Christianity the other is Christ."
Anonymous 8:31 am, then responded with:
"Did you know Sartre was a cardholder member in the communist party? Perhaps, next time you bring up Gramsci who was fascinated by the skills of Jesuits."
oh yes....we don't have to live in hell for 40 or 60 years waiting for our own death bed to realize the real love..the Spirit of Jesus Christ for us that enables one to love the brother.
Diana, the salt is a mineral. A mineral is not going to "die". Salt is also present dissolved in the ocean water. Some people like the taste of the salt, some others don't. Some people become sick if the eat salty food. Sodium replaces salt in some canned food. In countries with a winter salt is poured on the roads and pedestrian walks to avoid icing. beyond loose associations that Jesus made about the salt, it is really strange to attach any serious theology to the salt.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 2:16 pm,
DeleteSalt dies when it dissolves. And when it dissolves, it makes even the soup taste better.
Matthew 5:13. “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
Christ was the light that could not be extinguished. Christ died and his death and resurrection brought redemption.
Yeah, just like the coal "dies" when it burns in the fire giving warmth to those left in the cold. Electricity also "dies" when it cools my house.
DeleteDiana, one has the impression that you have to read the Bible first before you can properly quote it. In New York City, every December a lot of salt, mostly industrial salt that is unsuitable for consumption, is poured on the roads and sidewalks to protect against icing. So the salt, when it loses saltiness, is still salt to be used underfoot.
Delete“You are the salt of the earth." What does this mean? It means you have to have a particular flavor, otherwise people won't like you. This flavor is the innocent suffering and death of Jesus that we all keep on our heart. Our anguish above the carcass of the Lord Jesus is epitomized by the Pieta, by the pain of the Virgin Mother.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piet%C3%A0_(van_der_Weyden)#/media/File:Rogier_van_der_Weyden_-_Piet%C3%A0_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg
If you mourn and feel pain over the death of the Lord, then you are a Christian. If you are unable, then how can you call yourself one?
http://gardenofpraise.com/mobileart/pieta4c.jpg
Dear Anonymous at 4:52 pm,
DeleteConsidering the fact that biblical Israel did not have any modern industries, I highly doubt that scripture was referring to an industrial salt. I also doubt that the phrase "you are the salt of the earth" means that we are to have a particular flavor in order for people to like us. After all, Christ taught us to love all people. Whether people like us or not is not our problem. The problem is theirs.
Dear Anon at 4:52 pm
DeleteWhat you are saying makes no sense and has no theological backing. You CANNOT just invent an interpretation of the bible. Otherwise you can just call yourself protestant. The tradition of the Catholic Church can not be divided from scripture. The tradition and teachings the apostle's passed down in writings like the filocalia as well as letters cannot be ignored.
Aside from the fact that when Christ made that statement, he had not yet died or suffered. In other words there was no pain to be felt. However what we do know that Christ taught was to give one's own life for his enemies.
The sermon on the mount which include the first 4 chapters of Matthew, and if I am not mistaken includes the statement of the salt, presents the image of the new man in Christ. A man created in the likeness of Christ. We where all created in this image, but destroyed this image in us because of original sin. The sermon on the mount speaks saying if anyone strikes your cheek, offer the right cheek. If anyone asks you to walk a mile offer 2. If someone asks for your cloak offer your robe. If you read it in it's entirety it is an offering of one's own existence for love of the other including the enemy. After reading all this and coming to the line, "you are the salt of the earth". It is easily understood that to be salt means to die to one's own existential happiness for the other. You will find this referenced time and time again in the letters as well. "for when we die the world receives life" etc.
Again, everything in the bible should be a theological matter. Yes coal dies, but the only furthers the truth Christ was conveying. In order to give fruits of eternal life one must die.
john 12:23f "Jesus replied to them: Now the hour has come for the Son of man to be glorified.
In all truth I tell you, unless a wheat grain falls into the earth and dies, it remains only a single grain; but if it dies it yields a rich harvest." You are welcome to continue reading to the end of the chapter.
We just don't reference coal, because Christ did not reference it. So using coal to equate salt is irrelevant. In nature, as with the grain of seed, everything must die to bear fruit or serve it's purpose. But when we die we resurrect with him because death was destroyed. Both existentially and physically.
Theology is what helps properly interpret scripture based on Catholic traditions.
"Theology is what helps properly interpret scripture based on Catholic traditions." That is why you should study real theology that is the truthful teaching of the Catholic Church. You don't get eternal life from a mineral, a piece of salt or coal or the electricity in the wall! You are saying the seed will have new life in the plant that grows out of it. What plant is growing out of your salt? What plant is growing out of your coal?
DeletePlease, do not confuse chemistry, the science of materials with biology, the science of life. This is an unhealthy mixture that leads you to non-standard, twisted theology that is in conflict with common sense and with the teaching of the church.
No decent theologian had ever said the salt is "dying". It is in some unpublished works of Kiko Arguello, inspired by Carmen Hernandez, who are not theologians. They acted as lay people in the church to enforce biblical interpretations. It is them who re-interpret the Bible apart from the teaching of the Catholic Church. The NCW Dictionary had to be corrected by inserting hundreds and hundreds of footnotes so that the faithful is not mislead.
Dear Anonymous at 8:45 am,
DeletePlease NOTE that YOU are the ONLY one who brought up Kiko Arguello and Carmen Hernandez. Anonymous 10:44 pm, on the other hand, cited the Holy Bible and the teaching traditions of the Catholic Church. The reason YOU brought out Kiko Arguello and Carmen Hernandez was because your conscience recognized the truth of what was said, and sometimes.....the truth hurts.
"It is easily understood that to be salt means to die to one's own existential happiness for the other." No, it does not say that. I don't know what is your concept of "easily understood", but I do have difficulty with your interpretation.
DeleteIn the Sermon on the Mount Jesus talks about the conscious choice of living like a Christian. It is not about sacrificing your happiness but finding happiness in serving others. It is a teaching on radical love and radical Christianity! It is not about resigning to your enemy, but on giving up the very concept of the enemy. It is about identifying yourself with your enemy to such a degree that would eliminate the distinction, we would all become one in Christ. If I and my enemy are unified in radical love as one, then we are not really enemies at all! The fundamental unity of you with your enemy is exactly the radical teaching of Jesus that could rid the world from all hatred and murder.
The salt is a flavor that would spice up your food. When you are the salt of the world, then you spice up the life of your neighbor. You spice them up so that they choose consciously to live as Christians. The salt itself cannot make a conscious choice, because it is void of consciousness. A follower of Christ is a Christian who is conscious of the suffering of the Lord, mourns for His death and rejoices over His bodily resurrection. Jesus died as the Son of God and not as a piece of salt. When you die, you die as a Christian, not as a mineral.
Please, refer to any decent theologian's work that says the salt "dies". You won't be able to do so because no such theologian or piece of work in theology exists! I would be glad to repudiate what I am saying here if you would be able to bring any single example like that. Thanks!
Dear Anonymous at 2:29 pm,
DeleteTo be salt of the earth means that we are two love our neighbor as Christ loved us. And how did Christ love us? He DIED for us. We are not called to have a particular flavor so that people would like us. The goal was never to get people to like us. There were only two commandments that Christ told us to follow: 1) Love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength and 2) love your neighbor as Christ loves us. These two fulfills all the laws and prophets.
So, how does one love as Christ loves? Christ died. This is why He said, pick up your cross and follow me. The salt was not meant to be kept to ourselves. It was meant to be given to others so that others may live. The beatitudes explains the attitude of a Christian and how he/she should live as a Christian.
1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.
Jesus is our Savior, indeed, Diana! But it has nothing to do with the salt. In particular, nothing with the salt "dying". You don't give salt to others so that they may live! How can you live on salt? You give them food, cloths, cover and love so that they may live.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 5:53 pm,
DeleteSalt and light are metaphors. When the Holy Bible says "be the salt of the earth", it does not mean that we are to transform ourselves into the mineral salt. Salt is used to enhance food. When you do not put salt in the soup, it tastes bland. When salt is put into the food, it dissolves, giving food a tasty flavor.
To be like salt is be like Christ who not only showed compassion, but who also sacrificed His life to save others. As the 1st letter of John says,"This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters."
Dear anon @ 18:45, 2:29, 5:53
DeleteThe statement that you get eternal life from salt was never made, therefor your argument is irrelevant. The only statement made is this: To be salt means to be christian. To be Christian means to imitate Christ who is the new man. If we go by the new man as explained in the sermon of the mount. The new man is he who dies for his enemies. This is not to say that the truth is not spoken. But the enemy wishes to kill you, and in the moment where he does so, you accept it as Christ did. Christ loved those who killed him. This is something irrefutable. So it only makes sence to say that to be salt means to die for love of the other. Sartre says the other is hell, because it is easy to see that the other becomes our enemy. In Christianity the other is Christ.
You gain eternal life by loving Christ above all things. THe consequence of loving CHrist is that you love your neighbor including your enemy as Christ did, because God's will is for ALL to be saved.
The sermon of the mount does speak about what it means to be Christian. However when read in it's entirety and understood, to practice what it says, one must die existentially. It means to give up your own happiness. However this also holds true physically. Again always saying the truth to your enemies. However when the moment of truth comes you do not kill to uphold the truth, you die to uphold the truth. While those who kill you, kill you to uphold their truth. Christ did not force his OWN people to his truth but died for them. It is funny that you say "decent" theologian. This only means that you have a bias and do not take the argument for its validity. Arguments based on authority only mean something when you believe their authority.
To be Christian means to die for your enemy. Love your enemy means to die for them. As Diana pointed out. There is no greater love then to die for your friends. As you stated, in christ enemies are friends, and there is no greater love then to die for them.
I just don't understand what is being argued here. The statements being made hold true. Even if you refuse to see salt as having that meaning. It still holds true, that to die for the enemy is the ultimate christian behavior. To say otherwise is to mock the deaths of martyrs throughout history.
Last of all 5:53. Again a statement based on something that was never said. Never was it said that you give salt to love the other. The remark made is based on the properties of salt. Salt's purpose is to give flavor to food, and it does so by dissipating in it, and dies and gives flavor. In Christ's world, salt was a commodity, a spice afforded by the rich.
Whether you don't believe in kiko or carmen as an authority is irrelevant since the prefect for the congregation of faith has approved this interpretation as being Catholic tradition.
All I asked for was a reference for the salt "dying" in the theological literature. You are apparently unable to come up with such a reference.
DeleteOne has hard time to understand why do you stick to the salt as something that "dies". Jesus talks about the mustard seed that is a piece of biology, a living thing. You may associate life with a mustard seed but how can you do the same with the salt? You may associate dying with something/ somebody that/ who had life in it in the past. But how can you associate dying with a mineral that has never had any life in it?
Jesus never said salt can die. It is Him who could die for us because He had life in Him before. Jesus is fundamentally different from a mineral. That is why He was able to die on the cross. He was incarnate and dwelt among us. Otherwise how could have He died for us?
Dear Anonymous at 1:27 pm,
DeleteI do not think the word "salt" is the problem. I think the problem is that you do not understand what "dissolve" mean. According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, dissolve is also defined as coming to an end.
You should not read the Holy Bible as a science textbook because the writers did not write in scientific terms. In their perspective, when the salt dissolves, it comes to an end.
Dear Anon at 1:27pm
DeleteNot every word in the bible has a direct piece of literature by theologians to explain its meaning. However for your pleasure let me provide this:
Salt is an article of the most necessary for the life of man (Eclo 39,26); Thus "eating the salt of the palace" (Ezra 4, 14) means receiving the "salary" from the king (cf. lat. Salt). Salt makes food tasty (Job 6: 6). By having the property of preserving them (Bar. 6:27), it signifies the lasting value of a contract: a "covenant of salt" (Num. 18:19) is a perpetual covenant, as God's covenant with David (2Pe 13: 5). Among the words of Jesus that remain obscure, are those that concern the metaphor of salt. "If the salt loses its taste, what shall it be salted with?" (Lk 14:34, Mark 9:50). According to a possible first sense, in relation to the "salt of the covenant," this would mean that if the covenant with the Lord is broken, it can not be resumed. According to Matthew's interpretation, The believer must be "the salt of the earth" (Mt 5,13), that is, he must preserve and make the world of men tasteful in his covenant with God. Otherwise, it is useless, and the disciples deserve to be thrown out (Le 14,35). But "good is the salt; So that you may have salt in yourselves and be with one another in peace "(Mk 9, 50), words of which one might find a comment in Paul:" Let your word always be kind, seasoned with salt, knowing how you must Directing to each one in particular "(Col 4,6). -
theological definition of salt. One of them.
According to this it is up to the disciples to give flavor to the life of men by preserving the covenant. If we are to research what the covenant is in Christ as fulfilled and brought to fruition we would again reach the conclusion of loving the enemy and dying for him. For the people of Israel the covenant's fruition is the promised land. For the Christian it is eternal life which is promised to us in Christ. The complete destruction of death and the power it has over us, as St. Paul speaks about. The result of eternal life is the capacity to love your enemy when they want to destroy you because they reject the truth. In this understanding we can see that the way the salt brings the truth (which is what gives men's life flavor and is eternal life) is by dissolving and dying so that men can see death has been destroyed.
I just want to point out that you are actually making a heretical claim by saying Christ was able to die on the cross because he was Christ. By making this claim you are dividing the divinity of Christ from his humanity. Christ is both fully human and fully divine. It is not because he was divine that he was able to suffer. The reason it is a heresy is because it demeans his purpose and mission. Which is that he extends eternal life to us, and so we are able to do the same as him and become his imitators. As the disciples and martyrs before us. Otherwise we would never receive the promise.
Sounds like Neocat textbook stuff to me.
DeleteSalt preserves from corruption. It purifies. Hence in the previous verse, Mark 9, 49:
" Everyone will be salted with fire."
ie purified
Disciples are called to preserve the world from corruption; to purify it through the teaching and person of Christ.
It may be that the salt "dies", in your words, as it effects its preserving function, but your obsession with existentialism is simply self-indulgent and boring.
Dear anon, I hope Diana will allow this little chat to come to a fair conclusion. Thank you for confirming that you are unable to quote anything about the salt "dying". Of course, because it an obvious misnomer. I see in the first part of your comment you just collected the quotes about salt from the Bible. Thanks for providing the origins of the Bible quotes. Still nothing about the salt "dying". But weren't you supposed to quote from a theologian? Or do you think you are one?
DeleteIn the second part you elaborate on your existentialist speculation about Christianity. I find it quite interesting, even if cannot be supported by facts. Your inclination to existentialism is remarkable. Did you know Sartre was a cardholder member in the communist party? Perhaps, next time you bring up Gramsci who was fascinated by the skills of Jesuits.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/1924/03/vatican.htm
Your speculation that one has to die to be a Christian is easily tested by your own existence. I don;t see you to the front line against the ISIS perhaps because you are afraid of losing your sharpness by beheading. Contrary to what you preach one can die for Christ if one has to. Christian martyrs are the evidence. One can also choose to live for those one loves.
Christ died for me to redeem me from my sin. I caused His death by mot acknowledging Him as my God and my Savior. It is the greatest sin possible. That is why St. Thomas the apostle is saying "my Lord and my God". One has to mourn and weep bitterly because one killed Jesus by not believing in Him. You have to contemplate the suffering face of Jesus over and over again to be able to grasp the depravity in your own heart that sent the Son of God to cruel suffering and death. This is source of Christianity. Your pain and suffering over your stubbornness of not yielding to Jesus. When you repent, He will embrace you and you will be safe.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 2:05 pm,
How did you think Christ "purified" our sins? Christ died for the forgiveness of sins. What does not mean to you? Christ is the light of the world and He is also a salt because He can purifiy sins.
The Holy Bible says be to holy and and perfect as our Father in Heaven is holy and perfect. Christ is the light of the world, and we are called to a light. We are also called to be the salt of the earth because Christ is also salt who purified man through His death and resurrection.
The fact is no where in Catholic teaching does it claim that we are to acquire a certain flavor so everyone will like us. I am actually surprised that you did not questioned this kind of theology. This is not Catholic theology.
Dear Anon
DeleteThe text quoted is from the Theologian Leon Dufour. It is about the salt referring as in its meaning to the covenant. If you want me to quote more about the covenant and how it is fulfilled in Christ as he gives us eternal life through his death I'd be glad to do so.
Although I said not everything has a direct interpretation. It so happens salt does, and so I provided a quote from Leon Dufour a respected theologian.
Anon at 8:41
DeleteIndeed Christ died for your sins. But if you would study more about sin you'd also see that sin is a biproduct of not having eternal life. St. Paul says we are a slave to sin because of the fear of death. So then Christ died not only to redeem our sin, but to give us eternal life (the promise). Otherwise it is like dropping charges on a men who is in jail but not releasing him from jail.
If Christ did not provide a path for us to have life in us and be able to not sin, then it is like we where never freed.
Dear anon at 2:05 am, you point on existentialism might be right on target. Sartre says existentialism is not about happiness but about free choice. He says your existence is coming before your essence, therefore the choice you make defines who you are.
DeleteThe speculation about existential happiness that you read about in the comments is non-existing! Sartre is very firm about this: you are what you are not and you are not what you are. This existential feature of the being prevents any kind of happiness of the essence.
Sartre was not only a communist, he also cheated on his wife, named Simone Beauvoir. This woman was a famous apostate, a militant feminist who habitually engaged in sex with her your adult male students.
http://www.biography.com/people/simone-de-beauvoir-9269063
https://www.gotquestions.org/apostasy.html
Dear Anonimus, it is not sin to be existential. We are all. Exist mean being. If you are, then you exist. Got it?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:43 AM, what I see this book is not written by Dufour but 70 other people. So what are you talking about?
Deletehttp://www.goodreads.com/book/show/590801.Dictionary_of_Biblical_Theology
The salt is still not "dying".
Dear Anonymous at 11:03 am,
DeleteThe information is written in that Catholic book.
I don't think sin is a "byproduct". Sin is the very essence of our earthly life. We were all created in the image of God. Therefore we are sinners when we don't follow on God's commandments.
DeleteIs there "a path for us to have life in us and be able to not sin"? Ask Diana, please, who says we are all irredeemable sinners from birth up until our death.
Anon @ 11:03am
DeleteAt this point you are illogically nitpicking. The argument was made and is valid. It is about the properties of salt in reference to the likeness of a christian and how he keeps the covenant by loving christ.
The law is to love God (Christ) and neighbor. Love Christ equals eternal life, love neighbor equals dying for them. End of Argument. If salt equates these same features, then it refers to how it dissolves and dies as well. It is a perfectly valid interpretation in line with Catholic Theology.
Ahh, now you say "in line with Catholic Theology"... Oh well, this sound differently from your previous statement that it is "part of" the Catholic teaching. The church teaches that it is only the living things that can die, non-living things cannot. By the way, you claim "in line", according to who??
DeleteDear Anonymous at 5:24 pm,
DeleteYou stated: "The church teaches that it is only the living things that can die, non-living things cannot."
For your information, the Church teaches that Christ is the ROCK (See 1 Corinthians 10:4) and that Peter is also a rock on which Christ built His Church. And a rock is NOT living; yet, the Church also taught that both these rocks (Christ and Peter) died. Therefore, your comment is not in line with Church teaching at all.
@Anon. 5:24 pm, Scripture calls us (people) to be the salt of the earth. If people are to be "salt" and people can die, then it is logical to conclude that the inspired author of the Bible is saying that the salt can die. Diana gave an excellent analogy of the "rock". Light, salt, and rock are metaphors ascribed to living beings. The idea that only living things can die comes from scientific reason. However, this does not mean that the Catholic faith is contrary to reason. Faith and reason go hand in hand; however, faith is much higher than scientific reason.
DeleteBeing a rock, a piece of salt or a ray of light is about emphasizing one quality in a material thing that otherwise is useful for beings: The rock is firm, as St, Peter had to be firm. The Christian is the salt of the earth because s/he gives a special flavor to the earth. The light is what brightens up darkness, allows us to see. Jesus is the light of the world.
DeleteBeing the salt of the earth means being socially conscious. We must be mindful of the suffering of the poor, the downtrodden, the widow, the orphan, the divorcees, the single mom, the unskilled, the unemployed, etc. It is a social fact that unemployment benefit and welfare payment work only temporarily. What you rather need is good and fair education system, new workplaces, new jobs, access to healthcare, equal opportunity.
You are a Christian if you can improve the quality of the life of the poor just as the salt improves the flavor of the soup. Quality life for the poor can be accomplished by social change. This is the duty of all Christians. Seeing the suffering face of Christ in the face of the poor of the society. If you are not for positive change, then you are not a Christian.
Social consciousness has always been a central topic of the speeches of Pope Francis. Helping the poor is not about refinancing poverty by monetary donation. It is not about making the population dependent of cash influx. Helping the poor is vying for change in the social environment so that one may get help to improve one's life by one's own effort.
Everybody is a child of God. Everybody deserves a chance in the life. Even the poor children of the poorest. This is what Jesus teaches to the Christian!
This is fundamentally wrong! The other is not your enemy. The other is your sister and brother. There is no such thing as enemy. Unless you wage a physical war against others nobody can point out any living creature as you enemy.
DeleteDear anon at 12:44 p.m. this mus be the opposite way around. Your brother is the other. You are the self and your brother is the other. Jesus is God, he is not "other".
DeleteRene Girard follows existential (re)interpretation of the Bible. Chuck White found that the NCW's theology is basically from Girard. But Chuck says Girard recanted later and then why NCW would not recant?!
Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. So how can you say He is the other? How can He be other than He was? This does not add up to me. But again, I might be wrong. I don't know existentialism. Do you need to read Sartre to be a Christian?
The early Christians did not have a temple because they were poor and were kicked out of the synagogues as you said. The Jewish Synod of Jamnia in the mid-80s of the 1st century excommunicated the Christians from Judaism for two reasons:
ReplyDelete1. first, because of the divinity of Jesus, and
2. second, the repudiation of Torah dietary laws and circumcision.
http://www.catholicsentinel.org/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=73&ArticleID=24733
It took time for Christians to get enough wealth to build their own churches. Already in the early middle ages awesome Catholic/ Christian churches and cathedrals were built all around the world, in Europe and in Rome.
You stated: "The Early Christians had no temples because they understood that their bodies were the temple of the Holy Spirit." This was not the reason! Knowing that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit helps to fight sin. Sin cannot enter the temple of the Holy Spirit, exactly because the Spirit is holy!
But the Catholic church needed buildings for proper remembrance of the death and resurrection of Jesus, the founder of our faith, so they build churches and cathedrals all around the world. Have you ever been in an awesome big cathedral that truly lifts your earthly spirit high up to the Lord Jesus? If you have never had the experience, then you would not appreciate the beauty of Christian architecture.
Dear Anonymous at 2:33 pm,
DeleteThey were kicked out of the synagogues because the Jewish people believed that the Jewish Apostles were preaching heretical things. The Jews did not recognize the Messiah whom they all knew from their Torah was coming. And yes, the Jewish Apostles also preached against the dietary laws and circumcision of the Jews......which they believe is heretical.
The reason church buildings were built was because of the growth of Christianity. The Early Christians held the Eucharist in the home. As more and more people were converted, you cannot fill them into a person's home. The gathering had to take place outside the home until a building was erected. The true temple is the body. When Christ said, he will build His Church.....He was referring to an assembly of people, not to any stone building. People are more important to God than stone buildings because man was made in God's image and likeness.
The heretical thing was the divinity of Jesus! Just imagine, Diana, the Jewish education told them about a God above the clouds, sitting in the heaven. A powerful and very strong God, who could do anything He wished. Now, a homeless wanderer, as they saw Jesus to be, comes and tells them he is divine. How could they believe?!
DeleteThis is the reason Jesus had to die. Nobody believed him to be God. That is why His followers were kicked out of the synagogues. Because they claimed Jesus is divine. Can you believe this? How can a homeless sojourner be divine, the Son of God and resurrected? Is this not crazy?
Dear Anonymous at 4:48 pm,
DeleteThey were kicked out of the synagogues because they believed they were preaching heresy. While it is true that the Jewish Apostles believed that Jesus is God, they also believed that He was the Messiah whom the Jews waited for many centuries. Their prophets spoke about the Messiah. This was what the Prophet Isaiah said to the Israelites:
Isaiah 9:5. For a child is born to us, a son is given us; upon his shoulder dominion rests. They name him Wonder-Counselor, God-Hero, Father-Forever, Prince of Peace.
Like the Apostles, there were many Jews who looked at the prophecy of Isaiah and understood the above verse to mean that this child would be the Son of God, one with God, and is God. After all, how does one explain what Isaiah meant when he said that the name of the son is "Everlasting Father"? It was the fault of the Pharisees that they chose not to believe their prophets, misunderstood their own scripture, and called their fellow Jews "heretics".
Anon at 2:33pm
DeleteChristians did not begin building Temples till the renaissance. In fact most of the first Christian temples were roman temples that where re-purposed. (in any other religion this would be considered heretical) This only shows that they did not have a temple. Just want to reference the bible. Christ was posed this exact question by the Samaritan women.
John 4:20-23 "Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, though you say that Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.'
21 Jesus said: Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know; for salvation comes from the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming -- indeed is already here -- when true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: that is the kind of worshipper the Father seeks."
and again he says:
Mt 6:6 "6 But when you pray, go to your private room, shut yourself in, and so pray to your Father who is in that secret place, and your Father who sees all that is done in secret will reward you."
I could continue quoting all day. Christ says you are the temple of the holy spirit. Again he says I will destroy this temple and rebuild it in 3 days referring to his own body.
The Christian has no temple, because in Christ all is made holy. Another quote, "there where there are 2 or 3 gathered in my name I will be made present." Refering to that Christ has no temple where you can find him specifically.
Even quoting contemporary Saints like St. Augustine. "Late have I loved you, O beauty ever ancient, ever new, late have I loved you! You were within me, but I was outside, and it was there that I searched for you."
He referred that he looked for Christ always externally where it was within him, as we are the temple, that he found Christ.
Jesus claimed co-equality with God! This was sacrilege and abomination in contemporary theological view. Even today non-Christians reject Jesus as Son of God and deny his resurrection.
Delete"The Christian has no temple." But we have church where we go to worship God and adore the Savior. If you don't mourn, don't feel the pain when you look at the dead God on the cross in the front of your church, whom you killed and crucified by your sin of denying Him, then you are a person of no mercy, no faith, no true belief in God the Savior, our Lord Jesus.
DeleteJesus is in my heart. That is why I come to the church to worship Him if the Holy Sacrament and pray to Him with the faithful of my parish in the presence of his holy, consecrated altar where He was sacrificed, and keeps being sacrificed over and over in the Eucharist, for me and you.
Dear Anonymous at 8:57 am,
DeleteThe reason I wear a crucifix is to remind me of the price Christ paid for my sins. It is not only in Church where I see the crucifix. In Egypt, the Church has been bombed by terrorists, but the Christians can still see Christ despite that they no longer have a Church. Nevertheless, these persecuted Christians can still have the Eucharist even without a Church. In fact, the Early Christians in Rome held their Eucharist in the catacombs.
As Anonymous 11:03 pm pointed out:
This only shows that they did not have a temple. Just want to reference the bible. Christ was posed this exact question by the Samaritan women.
John 4:20-23 "Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, though you say that Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.'
21 Jesus said: Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know; for salvation comes from the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming -- indeed is already here -- when true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: that is the kind of worshipper the Father seeks."
and again he says:
Mt 6:6 "6 But when you pray, go to your private room, shut yourself in, and so pray to your Father who is in that secret place, and your Father who sees all that is done in secret will reward you."
I could continue quoting all day. Christ says you are the temple of the holy spirit. Again he says I will destroy this temple and rebuild it in 3 days referring to his own body.
The Christian has no temple, because in Christ all is made holy. Another quote, "there where there are 2 or 3 gathered in my name I will be made present." Refering to that Christ has no temple where you can find him specifically.
That is right, dear anon, Antonio Gramsci wrote:
ReplyDelete"The large worldwide institution known as the Apostleship of Prayer is a creation of the Jesuits. It embraces 26 million adherents divided into communities of 15 people. Each of these is headed by a male and female ‘fervent’. They distribute a periodical that is published in 51 different editions and in 39 languages, including six Indian dialects, one Madagascan, etc. It has one and a half million subscribers and a total print run of ten million.
The Apostleship of Prayer is undoubtedly one of the best religious propaganda organisations. It would be interesting to study its methods. With very simple means it manages to exercise an enormous influence on large masses of the rural population, arousing a religious fanaticism and promoting the policies best suited to the interests of the church."
https://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/1924/03/vatican.htm
Gramci became a Catholic before he died: "Antonio Gramsci reverted to the Catholic faith - Archbishop Luigi De Magistris, former head of the Apostolic Penitentiary of the Holy See said rumours that Gramsci had reverted had never until now been confirmed, and the Italian Left had also remained silent on the issue. But that is how it was, he told Vatican Radio. Gramsci returned to the faith of his infancy."
http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/21PbAr/Hst/GramsciConvrt.html
Who was talking about Antonio Gramsci?!
DeleteDear Anonymous at 12:36 pm,
DeleteIt was Anonymous April 14, 2017 at 8:31 am who FIRST brought up Gramsci. He/she was the FIRST person who wrote about him. According to Anonymous 8:31 am:
"Perhaps, next time you bring up Gramsci who was fascinated by the skills of Jesuits."
This was an odd comment to make because no one else under the thread brought up Gramsci except the person who made the comment above. He/She was the one who mentioned the name first, and it was made in response to Anonymous April 12, 2017 at 10:13 pm, who made no mention of Gramsci.
Anonymous at 10:13 pm only mentioned Sartre. According to Anonymous 10:13 pm:
"Sartre says the other is hell, because it is easy to see that the other becomes our enemy. In Christianity the other is Christ."
Anonymous 8:31 am, then responded with:
"Did you know Sartre was a cardholder member in the communist party? Perhaps, next time you bring up Gramsci who was fascinated by the skills of Jesuits."
It is great this Gramsci became a Catholic on his death bed. Is anything else we need to know about him?
Deleteoh yes....we don't have to live in hell for 40 or 60 years waiting for our own death bed to realize the real love..the Spirit of Jesus Christ for us that enables one to love the brother.
Delete