Apparently, Archbishop Byrnes had decided to make some more changes in the Eucharistic celebrations of the Way. Naturally, the jungle is happy about this, but they will not be very happy for very long. Why? Because they still did not get what they want. What they really wanted is the destruction of the Neocatechumenal Way. Following the directives of Archbishop Byrnes is not a problem. Why? Because many of us participate in the Sunday parish Mass anyway; therefore, making those changes makes no difference to us. The jungle made the mistake into thinking that the change in liturgy would destroy the NCW. It does not. As I have always said in my blog, our communion as true Catholics was never in the liturgy because the Catholic Church has a variety of liturgies. Our communion as true Catholics is found in our baptism and communion with Pope Francis, who is the Vicar of Christ, and the Church hierarchy.
The Way will still have the Eucharist in accordance with what Archbishop Byrnes wants. That will not destroy the Way. The Eucharist in the Way will still have the admonitions and echoes and will still be two hours long. Furthermore, the parish of Barrigada had always published the Mass of the Neocatechumenal Way in the parish bulletin, and that did not bring any changes at all. After all, most parishioners who do not walk in the Way do not want to attend a two hour Mass that ends until 9:30 p.m. or 10:00 p.m.
One positive thing I can say about this is that having the celebrations in the Church or chapel will save the brothers in the NCW a lot of money because we no longer need to purchase flower arrangements. We simply use the ones already in the Church or chapel. The only thing we would purchase are loose flowers for the altar table.
If altar flowers are allowed?!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 4:39 pm,
DeleteThat is not for you to decide. The NCW have always followed its Pope and bishops. We followed Archbishop Apuron. We never disobeyed him. Now that Archbishop Byrnes is the Coadjutor Archbishop of Agana, we will follow him.....unlike Tim Rohr who clearly stated "not to look to Rome".
All we have to do is read and follow the GIRM. We don't need any further instruction from Byrnes. Byrnes stated the allowances we were given. There are no other allowances.
DeleteStop leading our communities through the wrong practices. Why do you keep lying to us? We are tired already.
Dear Anonymous at 4:53 pm,
DeleteIf we were lying, we would have hidden how we celebrate the Eucharist from the beginning. But we never did. The fact that we never hid how we celebrate the Eucharist only shows our sincerity in following the directives of the Congregation of Divine Worship. Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI celebrated the Eucharist with the Way exactly as how we described it to you. We never hid that fact from you or from the Popes.
Amazing. So, you were told that the catechists met with AB Byrnes and all he wanted of the NCW was to make a little change, so that you remain standing and don't sit down. Evidentally that was not true, was it? AB Byrnes has clearly stated what he wants and this doesn't match with what you have been told. So, who is lying here?
ReplyDeleteSecondly, if it didn't matter how you conducted the communion rite, then why would you have insisted that it be the way you have been doing it all this time? Why not simply have changed it to be according to the GIRM long ago?
I suspect it IS a big thing. I suspect you are not at all content with this instruction. I suspect you know that it confirms those that criticized the NCW for its Eucharistic practices.
So now your end your comment referring to the flowers on the altar, which is of course a sort of display of non-compliance, because you know, and we know, that the GIRM specifically rules out putting flowers on the mensa of the altar. Do you think that is funny? Or are you doing this in order to have the AB make a further instruction?
Is putting flowers on the altar important, or not? If it is, then you are out of step with the Church again. If its not important, then why do it?
Dear Anonymous at 4:03 pm,
DeleteArchbishop Byrnes did meet with the head catechists and the NCW was told to make that tiny change. All communities made that tiny change. Apparently, Archbishop Byrnes decided to make more changes, and so we comply. I do not see that as a big deal. We did not fuss over the tiny change, so why should we fuss for over the other changes he made.
If you have a complaint about the flowers on the altar table, then complain to Archbishop Byrnes about it. And while you're at it.....also complain about everything else that the jungle say is wrong in the parish Mass. For us, our focus is on Jesus rather than where the flowers are located.
After blurting nonsense about the NCW for years and demanding our removal from the island, you must be quite disappointed. We have been streamlined like this before and, lo, we are still here. NCW is at the service of the local bishop. If he wants us to celebrate in the church or in a chapel then we'll do it. So what? You have to live with us in the long term, anyway. Now is the time for you to swallow that NCW remains on Guam forever!
DeleteThe Jungle claims victory. But only because they have no clue about what is important and what is unimportant in the Way. What is important is Jesus Christ, who is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
ReplyDeleteWhat is victory? Earthly victory is for the Pilates and Caesars of this world. They see victory in violence, hatred and blood shedding. Just like the Jungle folks do.
DeleteBut where is true victory? True victory is only in Jesus who was risen from death and was crowned as king of the everlasting kingdom forever!
Then why have you all been so adamant about having a different communion all this time. If it didn't matter, why did you do it that way? Huh?
DeleteWe've got pages of you all saying how the Church knows how the NCW takes communion and that if it thought there was a problem it would do something about it. Pages of how the NCW communion is great and is not a problem; of how cardinals (and one pope once) celebrated Mass like that with the NCW; pages on how the early Church (supposedly) did things and why then that justifies how the NCW do stuff.
And now - the Church has made its concerns, has ruled on whether there is a problem with the NCW manner of communion. And guess what? It says that there is a problem.
Its a massive decision, even though you try to play it down. Finally we see that all your talk was lies and invention.
At many places, local bishops have no problem of allowing the NCW to celebrate at a table sitting around it. It is a local policy exerted by the local bishop, who is ruling one way or the other.
DeleteIf archbishop Michael leans on Fr. Gofigan in pastoral decision making, well then it is his authority to do so. He is the boss, we have to go along with it. But we will keep growing and you still will be bitter about it. It'll be your problem, not ours. Times, well they are-a-changin' my friend.
Dear Anonymous at 5:01 pm,
DeleteIt is because we follow the Archbishop. The jungle have always claimed that we follow only Kiko Arguello. Now you finally know the truth. The Archbishop of Agana has always been our leader, not Kiko Arguello. When it was Archbishop Apuron, we followed him. Now, it is Archbishop Byrnes we follow because he is the Coadjutor Archbishop of the Archdiocese of Agana. We do not follow Kiko ARguello because he is not the Archbishop of Agana. Now, you know the truth. We have always followed the Archbishop of Agana, because he is the hierarchy of the Catholic Church.
It was not the NCW who lied to you because we had always been telling you that the Archbishop is the one in charge and we follow him. We had always been telling you that we do not follow Kiko Arguello. It was Tim Rohr who lied to you because he was the one who kept telling you that we follow ONLY Kiko Arguello. Now you know the truth.
Dear Diana 5:59 and anonymous 5:38:
DeleteBut what about the GIRM that is cited in the PDN article that Byrnes is following. Aren't all Bishops supposed to follow that? Byrnes is not establishing anything new, he's just enforcing the General Instructions.
My question is: if what anon 5:38 says is true, then are those Bishops disobeying the GIRM?
Dear Anonymous at 8:29 pm,
DeleteArchbishop Apuron and all the other Bishops who are familiar with the Way already know that the NCW had permission from the Holy See to celebrate the Eucharist they way we do. As I keep saying over and over and over, the NCW has always been open about how we celebrate the Eucharist. We never hid it. Even the Pope knows how we celebrate it. The NCW in Rome celebrates it exactly the same way we do, and the Pope knows about it.
Nevertheless, this is what Pope Francis told the NCW on February 3, 2014:
"Like all movements and groups who contribute their own charism to the life of the church, the Neocatechumenal Way needs to "walk together as one flock under the guidance of the pastors of the local churches."
"Communion is essential, and sometimes -- it happens you know -- it may be better to forego following in every detail that your itinerary demands in order to guarantee unity among the brothers and sisters that make up the one church community of which you must always feel part," he said."
http://www.catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2014/pope-to-neocatechumenal-way-work-for-unity-respect-local-cultures.cfm
Pope Francis told us to follow the local bishops and priests in order to establish unity even if we have to give up something in our itinerary. We obey the Pope and the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. This is why I keep saying to write your letter of complaint to the Vatican because only the Vatican can tell us what to do simply because we follow the Pope and the hierarchy of the Catholic Church.
We do not follow Tim Rohr, who has already proclaimed not to look to Rome. We look to Rome and we also look to the Archbishop of Agana because he is part of the Church hierarchy. Tim Rohr is not the Pope or the Archbishop of Agana.
We have been telling you over and over that the Archbishop of Agana is who we follow, not Kiko Arguello. Both Tim Rohr and Chuck White have always claimed that the NCW follows ONLY Kiko Arguello. Well, the truth has finally come out. Now, you know the truth.
So are you going underground with your celebrations of the word and evangelization?
ReplyDeleteAlso, since you cannot start new communities, which seems like a stop in your ability to evangelize on Guam for a period of 1 year, are you still going to evangelize underground or outside of Guam? If so, why would you do that? Wouldn't that go against Archbishop Byrnes? After all, if he hasn't determined that your catechists are properly formed and trained then wouldn't it make sense that by evangelizing outside of Guam before the 1 year period, you would be falsely advertising that the Archbishop of Guam approves of your catechists and how you are teaching the Catholic faith? Wouldn't that be disobedience to the Archbishop whom you are to follow?
Just curious....
Dear Just curious,
DeleteThere is no need to go underground. Why? Because our celebrations are not stopped. The catechesis was also paused for only one year.
Furthermore, people who do come to our Eucharist can express an interest to join. I have seen it happened. This is why Pope Benedict XVI wanted the Eucharist to be open to the public.
When the public sees how the brothers and most especially our youth are actively involved in the Mass, they would be interested. Our youth is the most impressive. They actively participate in the entire Mass. The youth also give admonitions, echoes, and the prayer of the Faithful.
And when the year is up, those who expressed an interest to join will already be a community.
But, where is the document you said we have that supports and gives permission to the changes you said we were allowed? Did you not show it to the Archbishop?
Delete“Celebrations of the Word of God are arranged for their benefit, and at Mass they may also attend the Liturgy of the Word with the faithful, thus better preparing themselves for participation in the Eucharist in time to come.”
Delete“When they are present in the assembly of the faithful, they should be dismissed in a friendly manner before the Eucharistic celebration begins.”
Sooooooo IF your Eucharist is open to the public WHY weren't the schedules published until last year? I heard that Neos had Masses at different times in different places but there were never any schedules in the parish bulletins. It was all word of mouth.
DeleteAnd if people who express an interest to join will already be in a community at the end of the moratorium (because that's really what it is) why bother going into the regular Masses to air your dirty laundry? Just put the schedules in the bulletins in all the parishes. That way people who live in Mangilao can attend a Eucharist in another parish. And they can be in a community even though there's no NCW in Sta. Teresita.
Easy-peasy
Just curious @ 6:32 PM the NCW will be going to our neighbors in Chuuk & Palau to evangelize.
DeleteThey'll do well there because nobody reads Junglewatch in Chuuk & Palau. As for false advertising nothing new there. LOL.
Dear Anonymous at 12:06 am,
DeleteI am certain that the head catechists have shown everything to Archbishop Byrnes including the videos we have of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI celebrating the Way with the NCW. However, it is the Archbishop's duty to somehow bring unity to all Catholics, and as members of the NCW, we follow our Diocesan Bishop exactly just as our approved Statutes stated.
Dear Anonymous at 6:59 am,
DeleteFrom what I understand, it was Barrigada that was the first one who published the time of the Mass in the Neocatechumenal Mass in the parish bulletin. It was published in their parish bulletin for quite a while now, but as I said in the OP, it brought no changes. The members of the Way were the ones who invited the public to the Mass in the Way. That was how some expressed their interest. When they expressed their interest, they were then invited to attend the catechesis.
The aesthetic of the way ( and that is what it purely is, aesthetic) has been ideally created to help the catechumen walk towards adult faith. Everything, the liturgy, the way communion is taken, admonitions, ecumenism in taking communion is meant to be a catechesis to the catechumen to help him become an adult christian. This is why the popes and the vatican have given special permissions in the liturgy.
ReplyDeleteHowever having said this, the Bishops have special discernment over their own Dioceses. Sometimes local changes can be requested for the purpose of pastoral work that the Bishop has a better more global view of in his own dioceses. All for the purpose of saving souls which is the goal of every christian leader. This does not take away from the ideal celebrating aesthetic of the way. Since the NCW around the world continues to celebrate as the statutes state. It is merely a local decision based on pastoral views the bishop has discernment on for his dioceses.
This is why it is not a big deal for the NCW as the jungle would like to make it. We simply trust in the discernment Christ gives to the leaders of it's church. It is more than can be said when compared to the divisive philosophy of Rohr and the jungle.
Dear Anonymous at 11:11 pm,
DeleteThank you. Very well said. :-)
To summarize 11:11pm: Spin, spin, spin, spin... Oh look, a tangled web... it's the Jungle's fault!
Delete@Anon.1:26 am, your comment only shows your true colors that the jungle is not interested in healing and unity.
DeleteAnon @ 1:26am
DeleteIt doesn't matter how logical our argument. It doesn't matter that we are bipartisan. Once you are brainwashed and refuse to seek any type of peace by virtue that means everything that is not your agenda or rhetoric will be considered spin.
Hence why Rohr instead of defending any decision made by Pope Francis has called to reject Rome itself.
Well, Archbishop Byrnes sees it differently Diana, Archbishop Michael Byrnes has made an unprecedented move, issuing a moratorium on some of the practices of the Neocatechumenal Way. In a pastoral letter he issued yesterday, Byrnes says many of the NCW practices have contributed to the deep divisions within the Catholic Church.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 11:52 pm,
DeleteInstead of swallowing everything Tim Rohr tells you, why did you not read the letter yourself? If you had read the letter, you would have known that no where in that letter did Archbishop Byrnes ever said that the NCW practices contributed to the deep divisions within the Church. Please learn to read yourself rather than swallowing everything one man tells you.
Why are you not providing the letter on your site?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:49 am,
DeleteBecause I do not have it. I am not the Archbishop nor the head catechist. And even if I have it, what good will it do to publish it? On this blog, we have already stated that we will follow the directives of Archbishop Byrnes. Even Zoltan stated that he will embrace the changes that Archbishop Byrnes made. And Tim Rohr still call us liars. Where is his proof?
Tim Rohr lied to you. You were fooled and brainwashed into thinking that the NCW follows ONLY Kiko Arguello.
Yep. That's true. It's useless to publish any letter. Look at what Timmy is already doing with AB Byrnes' letter. He interpreted the letter to read that the NCW was the one who caused the division and the letter never said that. Timmy's followers either can't or won't read the letter. Obviously, they need Timmy to read and interpret it for them. And Timmy is the guy who says don't follow Rome.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:25 am,
DeleteI agree with you when you say that the junglefolks either can't or won't read. It is very obvious even from this anonymous comment taken from the jungle:
AnonymousMarch 16, 2017 at 11:55 PM
Its funny that Dianarehea mentions that the NCW finds communion through baptism and in the pope. She fails to understand that it is the Eucharist that makes the Church what it is, simply since it is Christ Himself. She also fails to understand that of the Seven Sacraments, the Holy Eucharist is prominent, while the six sacraments point to Christ himself, the Eucharist is Christ in his person, and when we receive him, it is really the Holy Trinity that we are receiving at every Holy Communion, and as St. Thereaa of Culcutta mentions it is in the Holy Eucharist that the Church is more in communion. What can be greater that that Diana?
This person obviously did not or cannot read properly. Nowhere in my OP did I ever mention the Eucharist. I said the LITURGY does not make us one because there are a variety of different liturgies in the Catholic Church, and the liturgies have always changed throughout the centuries.
Receiving the Body and Blood of Christ (the Eucharist) makes us one with Christ and the Church......that is true. But I never spoke about the Eucharist in the OP.
Tim also can't read well, Diana. This is what Tim said about your post:
Delete"Of course for The Diana's et al. the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ takes a back seat to their nauseating and narcissistic "what this means to me," two hour long blubbering."
You also didn't mention the body and blood of Christ in your OP. I don't think Tim knows the difference between the words "liturgy" and "Eucharist". As you rightly pointed out in your blog, there are different kinds of liturgies in the Catholic Church.
Dear Anonymous at 10:41 am,
DeleteI suppose Tim Rohr and the anonymous poster misinterpreted my words "Eucharistic celebration" to mean the Body and Blood of Christ. The words "Eucharistic celebration" is always known to refer to the liturgy of the Eucharist.
I don't understand all this beef with the Eucharist. I have been to NCW eucharist and mass alike. It is obvious at first sight how much the NCW reveres the body of Christ more so then even at mass where people will walk out of mass right after receiving communion. As if the mass had no value except for the sole purpose of consuming the body of Christ.
DeleteI've seen people come into mass just for receiving communion and walk out. I have rarely ever, if even once in all my life seen a person walk out of the Eucharist in NCW. EVER!
I do know one thing, if Rohr and the Jungle are spending that much time reading this blog, and insulting Diana in their own blog then Diana must be hitting a nerve. A nerve they are scared of. If Rohr was truly fighting for truth, why does lower himself to such low tactics and insults. Any true debater knows that is the beginning of a loosing argument.
Maybe the problem is he knows he is already loosing the battle, and he has to result to motivating people through rage and passion rather than truth and justice.
Anon. 9:49pm:
DeleteIt's becoming more and more upsetting when people COMPLAIN about others walking out of the church before the end of the mass and sometimes even after receiving the Eucharist. Seriously, can't you stop and see it from a different perspective???
Maybe those people walk out because they do not know what they have just received. Rather than judge them, wouldn't you feel sorry for them? After all, it seems YOU have a better understanding than they do!
So why don't YOU do something about it rather than just sit back and COMPLAIN about how better off YOU are because YOU know. Because it seems like that is what you are doing here.
I've never understood why we decorate the altar for Jesus in the Eucharist, yet when the Mass has ended we "take back" our flowers that we had given Him. I wish we could have flowers that could remain with Him.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 3:37 pm,
DeleteThe flowers that is taken off the altar is used the next day for morning prayer. It remains with Him and is thrown away after it wilts. Members of the NCW usually put a small crucifix on their dining table.
Dear Diana,
ReplyDeleteThat is not what happens in our community. The flowers are taken off the altar and are distributed to those in attendance to take home. They are not left.
If they were flowers placed in a vase at least, they would last longer.
Dear Anonymous at 9:44 pm,
DeleteAs I said, the flowers are taken off the altar and is used the next day for morning prayers. The flowers are taken home by the brothers to be used for their morning prayer, which held at home.