There is a tremendous amount of unnecessary confusion in our diocese right now. And there is only one man who can straighten it out: Archbishop Byrnes. Rather than firing away on the blog on what things look like, call the chancery and ask to speak with Archbishop Byrnes. It's time to STOP depending on the CCOG, the LFM, JungleWatch, etc. to do the work for you. Call the Chancery and get an answer. And if you don't get an answer, then KEEP CALLING. Tel: 671-472-6116Now, this is an exaggeration. There is no unnecessary confusion in our diocese. The confusion is only in the Junglewatch Nation. :-) I am not confused. The NCW is not confused. The priests are not confused. And many parishioners are not confused. Only the Junglewatch Nation is confused, and they do not represent the entire diocese. Because the NCW has been doing this every year, why the confusion? :-)
Blog Song
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Monday, February 6, 2017
Nothing New
I had to laugh when I was reading the jungle. Tim Rohr and the entire jungle are in an uproar over a little "invitation to joy" announcement. This is something that we have been doing every year. So, it is nothing new. Invitations were distributed, and it is the choice of the people to attend the catechesis or not. According to Tim Rohr:
Just Another TIM R O H R.. ''Cry'' now he want's to get everybody to harass Archbishop Byrnes, when are they all going to wake up, to see what this man doing, dividing Church with his lies, for what Money, Casino,the funny thing is that they're falling for it,wake up people!! he's destroying your Church
ReplyDeleteI am confused because who celebrate the Eucharist not following the guidelines of your Statutes. Show the documents that you have special permission to do what you do and all these confusions will disappear. We need proof of what you are doing. Show us the document.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 4:31 am,
DeleteWrite a letter of complaint to the Vatican.
Timmy at 4:31 am, here is your life time chance to prove you are right and you don't only parrot back the nonsense of SNAP: ask Archbishop Byrnes! Knock and it will be open to you. Lol!
DeleteIs your bad conscience that keeps you awake in the dark of the night?
You are confused, dear anon, because you don't use your brain. If you would use it, you would know that we follow every little comma from out Statutes. It was written by the NCW. But you waste your capacity of being able to think. You are up for a major disappointment and awakening. I feel sorry for you.
DeleteWritten by the NCW, not the Vatican. You said it, I didn't.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 6:13 pm,
DeleteThe most important thing is that it was APPROVED by the Vatican.
Pope Benedict XVI i: “How can we not bless the Lord for the spiritual fruits which, through the methodology of evangelization that you [Neocatechumenal Way] apply, have been harvested in these years? How many fresh apostolic energies have risen up both among priests and among laypeople! How many men and women and how many families that had grown distant from the ecclesial community or had abandoned the practice of Christian life, through the announcement of the kerygma and the itinerary of rediscovery of baptism, have been helped to find again the joy of the faith and the enthusiasm of the testimony of the Gospel.
DeleteThis is funny. Rohr littered his own blog with anonymous and not anonymous comments during the night. He has bragged how creative he is while everyone else is sleeping! Lol.
ReplyDeleteThe managing of Jungle Watch is typically bipolar. At times you see maniac explosion of post as comments weaved from the same mindset and then another times there is nothing but depressive emptiness. JW is a mess. It is just impossible to follow up on this bipolar alternation.
Yes, Timmy why don't you call the Archbishop right now? Ask him if the NCW is okay or not? Ask him if the Eucharist with us is okay or not? Take courage, do not be shy! Ask questions!
ReplyDeleteYou started a clock for Archbishop Apuron on this very same question. Why are you afraid to ask Archbishop Byrnes then? Are you afraid he will respond? Lol. That will be the day of BIG SHAME for CCOG, LFM and JW, for sure.
Courage, Timmy, courage, don't be afraid to ask!
Then you are not following the Statutes given by the Vatican. So who is now disobedient and confused. I think you are, NCW, confused and sneaky and you are getting away with it.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:03 am,
DeleteWe are following our Statutes. If you think that we are in disobedience, then write your letter of complaint to Rome.
Dear anon, you parrot back a typical Rohr kind of bs. Rohr has our Statutes and read it. But does ot understand. Everything in the Statues of the NCW is supporting what we do in the communities. I mean SUPPORTING and not objecting! But things got confused in Rohr's little mind and he thinks the opposite. Wrong!
DeletePlease, show any part of the Statues that is not observed and followed religiously. You will be surprised because you won't find anything. I mean you'll find nothing because there is nothing that we don't follow. Please, stop parroting back what Rohr brainwashed into your head. Come up with the facts, do not speak on thin air. If you are able to...
So you accuse of not following the ncw statutes and you don't even know that it was the ncw who wrote them? Well for your info: ncw wrote them and 5 dicasteries in the Vatican approved them. Finally 2 popes signed them. John paul 2 signed the ad experimentum and Benedict xvi signed the final. (Ad experimentum means the temporary ones, literally for further testing)
DeleteRead Anonymous February 7 @ 7:48 AM's comment about the NCW wrote the statutes.
DeleteThe Statutes were the answer to all the letter of complaints of people around the world but STILL you remain adamant and continue to INSIST that your way is better than the rest. You are PHARAOH.
DeleteDear anon at 1.05.
DeleteIt is important that if you ask for evidence, you acknowledge it when you get it.
Carefully read article 13 of the Statutes, paying close attention to footnote 49 and the documents referred to there. Compare what is being described with the way the NCW actually practises; and I am sure you will see that the NCW does not follow what is written in its own statutes.
Once again you (collective as jw nation) throw the book at us without bothering to read it or to find out first hand if an accusation is true.
DeleteMy community follows exactly what is said in the statutes article 3 and I have read and know what Benedict said and we have, do, and will obey.
I love that you all tell us we are not obeying the statutes and popes when you all attack the holy father and his appointed bishops.
The confusion is that all these people who are against the NCW have based their judgment on info released by the jungle and that of other blogs.
ReplyDeleteThe truth is that the NCW is neither heretical nor a separate religion. We are catholic and at the service of the Bishop and the Pastors of the Diocese.
The Invitation to Joy is NOT and invitation to join, you dont join the NCW, you may join clubs, associations, groups but you dont join the NCW, rather you experience, you walk through an itinerary of faith, this is the NCW.
The Catechesis that is given is not the Catechesis of the NCW. It is the catechesis of the Catholic Church. So if you want to disagree with this catechesis, then you are going against the church. Go build your own church!
But then you will bring up, so who teaches that Jesus is a Sinner? You will say you have proof, a recording! Good! but did anyone think of asking the professor with a spanish/italian speaking interpreter what he really meant? Nobody who walks in the NCW believes that Jesus was a sinner. We have received the Kerygma though, that God loves us so much that he sent Jesus, his son, to die for us, for our sins.
But then you will bring up, who gave you permission to celebrate the Eucharist in that way and we will respond, Rome! read the Statutes! but you still wont believe.
But then you will bring up, why do you separate yourselves? and we will respond, we dont! and you will say, so then why do you celebrate these things in gymnasiums and hotel rooms, and we will say to you, how do you feel when you walk into a large empty church, with so many pews empty? ugly! So then you will say, so why cant I come to your gatherings? and we will respond, Please come! we will pick you up if you need a ride, we have an open chair waiting for you. But yet you still dont come!
But then you will bring up, But then you will bring up, But then you will bring up, But then you will bring up....................so many things that you have heard here and there.........................but one thing you will never ask, Why are we walking in the NCW? it is then that you will find the answer as to why there is so much effort on the part of the devil get rid of the NCW. God is doing so many miracles!
Bishop Byrnes was heard saying to the clergy, "When I speak with you,in our meetings, be ready to share with me, when and how you came to know Jesus."
The Invitations to Joy that took place at the CB this past weekend were all from Lay People except for the 9:30am Mass, Archbishop Byrnes took care of that, listen again.
We all need an encounter and experience with Jesus Christ!
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
The priests of Guam werre neglected by Apuron. Their human rights were denied Diana. Archbishop Byrnes must attend to his priests first. Apuron neglected bacic rights needs of priests. This is the problem. To the ncw priests he lavished attention. To our Island priests he neglected human basic rights.
ReplyDeleteNow this is a very curious statement. You claim, dear anon, that the human rights of "the priests of Guam" were denied. This is a statement worthy of court procedures. So, please, give us more details.
Delete1. Which priests were denied human rights on Guam?
2. What human rights were denied?
3. Who denied the human rights of those priests?
4. Is there any official document reflecting the accusation?
5. Have the priests reported that their human rights were denied?
6. Have they reported to church or civil authorities?
7. If they have reported, then what response did they receive?
8. If they did not report, then why did they remain silent?
I expect you to give answer to these questions dear anon. Otherwise you'll be just yet another Rohr clone, a slanderer who is hiding in and spitting out untruth from the dark.
Answes of neglect of rights abuses passed to Archbishop Hon. Internal forum. Violations of rights internal matter of ecclesial authority.
DeleteHuman Rights abuses are human rights abuses neglect of priests. Abuses internal matter.
Thank you for your concerns of abuse of clergy. Human rights abuses neglect of priests were a very real concern for Archbishop Byrnes.
Depends meaning of human rights.
DeleteHuman rights civil rights canonical rights legal rights religious rights.
Greater clarity required on exactly rights clergy denied.
For example denied food. Basic human right.Denied due process of law legal right.
To be neglected as an adult by ones employer is not a denial of human rights. It may be a denial of another right.
which ever the right denied neglect of priests is a constant issue.
Important for Bishop Byrnes to address clergy neglect in presbyteral council meetings.
Archbishop Apuron neglected to build brotherhood priestly fraternity. He Chose his priest pets This is very different to denial of human rights.In his interview Archbishop Byrnes referenced neglect of priests as a concern. Archbishop Byrnes is best to be available to priests. eg a ditect phone line designated only for priests direct to Archbishops private house would help. Archbishop Apuron rarely available to priests. This is a well known fact. He was available to designated friends priests. Those outside inner circle were neglected.
Are you out of your mind?
DeleteHuman rights?
Do you know what a Human Right is?
China is denying Human Rights, Isis is violation Human Rights.
Apuron moved 2 priests from their parishes one for stealing money the other for harboring a sex offender. He was perfectly within HIS right as archbishop to move them and he acted for the welfare of the Church.
Oh wait, You say he neglected his priests. mmmmmmm...did they want the bishop to hold their hands? Oh boo hooo these men in charge of souls needed someone to give them attention. They wanted bishop to pat their head and tell them it's ok to steal millions from the church. Yes, if you want to employ a sex offender around children that's fine. don't worry. cry on my shoulder. poor, big grown up man who needs a shoulder to cry on.
Are you kidding? go say a rosary if you want a shoulder to cry on.
Wait a minute! Human right abuse is a matter of civil or criminal courts! Was there any human right abuse or not? Because if you talk about internal complaints that is NOT the same as human right abuse! Talking of human right abuse requires you to say what are you talking about! Otherwise you are just a pitiable person confusing displeasure with abuse.
DeleteWere you educated in Rohr's school in making untrue accusations and seeking scandal at local media, rather than facing the truth? Are you a troll or a hero?
Human Rights abuses against Monsignor James Fr. Paul.
DeleteThey were found clear of all charges.
Human Rights abuses against them were very real. They suffered mental trauma as a result of human rights.
DeleteAddress Human Rights abuse?
Name these abuses?
Who? what? Where? When?
postings appearing showing human rights abuses associated with Archbishop. What are these abuses?
Anon, 7:07 pm, are you playing fool with us? You made very serious criminal changes. Human right abuses ARE criminal! Period. Either state in exact terms what are you talking about or back off and withdraw what you said. You cannot make criminal charges out of the blue!
DeleteFor your information, the re-assignments of Fr. Paul and Msgr James were ecclesial decisions that can be criticized, if you wish. But saying these were "human right abuses", well this is simply foolish (or stupid if you like). They were NOT! Human right abuse is something completely different and not associated to any kind of ecclesial policy.
Sweet Lord, is this what Rohr is teaching you guys over there at Jungle Watch?
called Archbishop Byrnes to talk 3am. He was not available.
ReplyDeleteDid Rohr do this? I am not surprised. LOL
DeleteA big split is happening right now at JW! The followers of Rohr differ in one crucial question: should they pay allegiance to Pope Francis or not? Should they remain loyal to the Holy See or not?
ReplyDeleteThe business interest, put forward by David Lujan, is that they withdraw all allegiance from Vatican and the Pope, and prepare to sue them at court using the unconstitutional Guam public law 187-33. Because this stance induces warfare, the business interest cannot relinquish its demand for an escalation of animosity. In order to tear off the largest possible monetary damages from the Catholic church, this interest is out to fight until blood. Rohr is one of the flagship supporters of this block of Vatican adversaries who is looking for his investments to return.
The spiritual fundamentalists, on the other hand, are not ready to withdraw their allegiance from Pope Francis and are shying away from denying loyalty to Vatican. They respect the Holy See and don't want escalation of animosity. They are abhorred by the financial burden that will be imposed on the parishes and the ruination of Catholic services on island. They would like to avoid that! They look at Archbishop Byrnes as a potential solution to all the ills of the Catholic faithful of Guam that they wish to cure.
This split of JW into the blocks of loyalists and anti-loyalist towards the Holy See is irreversible. You cannot go from one block to the other without losing your face. Only the JW anonymous trolls are able to sit on the fence and play games as if there would not be any internal turf inside JW. Look at the international supporters of JW, they all disappeared. They have never had the intention of destroying Rome. They are repulsed by the current direction of JW.
Those who have a face, a name and real personality at JW will realize very soon that this is an either - or situation. They either accept Archbishop Byrnes and the overview of Rome on the church affairs at Guam, or go against all official Catholic authority and try to get the maximum monetary fallout from the situation. There is no middle ground anymore!
no surprise.
DeleteI've been saying rohr is a heretic protestant from the beginning.
no surprise.
lujan wants to destroy the church. he wants the casinos.
“A true gift of Providence … that does great good to the Church of today.” With these words Pope Francis reiterated his validation to the members of the Neo-catechumenal Way.... How is it that the Popes are so adamant in their approval and some 'Catholics' in Guam constantly denigrate the Way???
DeleteThere is no split in JW. However Archbishop Byrnes focus on solutions to situation.
ReplyDeleteI would like to see a particular parish designated to the way movement.Way Camp can worship in thir own building.
On practical Concerns RMS should be closed as its impossible nor do the faithful of Guam wish to support it.
Seminafianz need to be re assigned to a RMS on mainland.
NCW clergy should be given option to serve on Guam of leave to wofk in another Diocese.
Solutions need to be found to end bitter division worsening division growing between camps. so much confusion which others use go set discord.
In other words you you would like to create a neocatechumenal ghetto, stop having priests who are ordained by Guam and for Guam and instead keep on importing priests who come for whatever reasons they want to leave the Philippines, you want to deport men who have offered to give their lives by studying to be a priest for Guam and by Guam, and you want to intimidate the priests who have already been ordained. why don't you also pass Jim Crow laws against people who walk in a community?Or make us pay special taxes like muslims make christians do? any other way you wish to discriminate against us?
Deletefyi Neocatechumenal Way is not a movement, it is a gift of the Holy Spirit to the church(or so say our statutes signed by 2 popes): you don't want a gift of the Holy Spirit? fine, but careful about not letting others receive it, and you do not support the seminary.
RMS should not be closed. It is a superb, low cost seminary that produces excellent priests for the New Evangelization! Guam is in bare need of new ways to evangelize people because the traditional ways of faith imposition does not work anymore. People are running out of the churches that were taken over by narrow minded traditional parishioners.
DeleteThe major power of New Evangelization is that it does not impose faith on the believer, but provides an avenue of discovering Jesus. This is much different! People do not want anything imposed on them. They prefer to discover the real thing by their own experience. This is the future of Catholic faith not only on Guam but in the whole world. We give this experience in the communities.
The problem is that there are a few people who do not like New Evangelization, hate any spirited or charismatic renewal and would do anything against the new formations. The very same people badmouth our very dedicated clergy who work hard and provide Presbyter services to our communities. You have no idea, my friend, how much work is done without trumpets and media attention so that our communities survive and strive. If you would have a clue, you would show more respect to the people who accept and face the challenge!
agree look for solutions to problems.
ReplyDeleteless focus on problem look for solutions.
ncw and traditional catholics should work side by side. There is room for all charisms in the church.
I would like to see Archbishop Michael more visable to communities as Archbishop Anthony was.
Why does the NCW make it mandatory that their members offer up 10% of their gross income akin to that of the Old Testaments practice of offering up 10% of the "first fruits" in burnt offerings to the Lord? When Jesus Christ died on the Cross and said "It is finished", didn't He abolish the Old Testament ways and we are now living in the New Testament world?
ReplyDeleteIn Christ's own words.. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." - (Mt 5:17)
DeleteFor the Jewish people the law and the prophets is synonymous with the Old Testament, the torah, the Pentateuch. They refer to the old testament as the law and the prophets as Christ (who is a Jew) refers to it.
Anon 6:27 PM
DeleteYou must be confused, in the NCW there is nothing mandatory. Everything is given as tool to help a person to be closer to Christ i their own freedom. This means said person is always free to do as he wishes with the tools given.
Christ is not Jew. Christ is spiritual being who was incarnated as Jesus. He was born as Jesus to a Jewish mother. It that sense his earthly origin is Jewish. But as Christ He is the Savior of all.
DeleteDear anon at 8:31 am
DeleteThe statement you are making is a heresy. The reason is that you are making a difference between Christ Divine and Christ human. They are not 2 separate things. Christ according to the Catholic Church is both fully human and fully divine. This means by tradition he has a Jewish upbringing.
I am sorry, but you are the one who talk heresy, my friend! Christ in His divine capacity cannot be Jewish. Only in His human capacity.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 5:07 pm,
DeleteAccording to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
CCD 468 .........Thus everything in Christ's human nature is to be attributed to his divine person as its proper subject, not only his miracles but also his sufferings and even his death: "He who was crucified in the flesh, our Lord Jesus Christ, is true God, Lord of glory, and one of the Holy Trinity."
Thank you Diana. It's like they are inventing their own religion and without any research, education or reading. They just base it on fallible blogs and they believe their own invented truths.
DeleteThese heresies where already addressed by the catholic church. If you want documents,rResearch Nestorianism which denied Mary as the mother of God and said that Christ was human in Mary's womb therefor creating a division as Christ human and Christ divine. Also read Monophysitism which is a wrongful reaction to Nestorianism and claims that Christ has only one nature.
The church's response, where the councils which rejected these heresies.
Unfortunately these heresies exists even today in people who lack information. Because of this they don't even know that their beliefs are heretical and not part of Catholic Teachings.
Saint Pope John Paul II: "The Neo-catechumenal Way can be utilized for building up a parish capable of forming adults who are firmly rooted in Christ, in his word and in his mysteries ... It will effectively contribute to imprinting on parishes the typical style of the new evangelization : a style marked by what is essential and radical, immersed in the mystery of the dead and risen Christ and courageously open to the needs of the modern man."
ReplyDeleteAustin OE from the United Kingdom, who is a regular international contributor at JW, is praising (!!) our NCW Bible Word book, the Dictionary of Biblical Theology by Xavier Leon-Dufour! Nice gesture.
ReplyDeleteAustin OE (UK)February 8, 2017 at 3:17 AM
We wanted to carry on meeting because we were lonely. Leon-Dufour is a good mainstream book.
In other words: NO ONE! No priest, no bishop, no Kiko, may alter the liturgy by one word, by one rubric, by one iota. When it comes to the Sacred Liturgy, there is only ONE authority:
ReplyDelete[16.] “It pertains to the Apostolic See to regulate the Sacred Liturgy of the universal Church, to publish the liturgical books and to grant the recognitio for their translation into vernacular languages, as well as to ensure that the liturgical regulations, especially those governing the celebration of the most exalted celebration of the Sacrifice of the Mass, are everywhere faithfully observed.”
Dear Anonymous at 2:13 pm,
DeleteIndeed. And we obtained permission frown the Apostolic See.
Anon, it pertains to the Apostolic See, and not you! LOL
DeleteName one person in the Apostolic See.
DeleteRatzinger. And 5 dicasteries including the one for liturgy. (You do know what a dicastery is right?)
DeleteDiana, have you taken a survey on who doesn't have a problem with the NCW doing this at mass? I personally am disgusted!
ReplyDeleteAnon 5:21 pm
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter how we answer. It's like telling you a tree is green. You answer back: no it's blue. We answer back: but the scientific community has defined it as the color green. You answer back: name me a scientist from that community. We answer back: just go look at the research they've released (the statutes in our case) you would then come back with yet another ridiculous reply that lacks a great deal of commmon sense.
It doesn't matter if we have permission, proof, documentation. You will believe what you want to believe even denying all proof to the point of wanting to go against Rome and the Vatican. This is called denial, and not wanting to be open to any other truth other than your own. This is the root of original sin, wanting to be God, not accepting any truth outside of the one you create. The opposite of humility.