AnonymousDecember 6, 2016 at 10:54 AM
Here is one from the National Catholic Reporter,"Anger in the face of evil is both just and necessary. It is the human response that Jesus Himself evinced when he was confronted with the leaven of the Pharisees. Anger that does not fester, that does not hate, but propels us into good, positive action to right wrongs, is not a sin. It is a force."
This same quote above can also be found in the jungle.
This is my response:
Anger against evil is fine. We abhor the sin, but NOT the sinner. However, the jungle does not hate the sin. They hated and attacked the sinner. You even see it in their picket signs. They say "defrock APURON" (who is a person). Their signs NEVER said "Stop Sex abuse" which is the evil.
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners. Christ died for us..
Christ came to save us sinners because He loved SINNERS. He never hated them. It was our SINS that He hated. There is a huge difference between the man and the sin. Man was created in the image and likeness of God. Sin was not. Christ loved the sinners that He died for them.
Archbishop Apuron is undergoing a canonical trial to determine whether he is guilty of sexual molestation. Because we live in a society where a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, this rule of law should be respected. Because we are Christians, it is right to be patient for the result of the canonical trial rather than to judge and condemn a person.
Just Read the jungle Blog, ''WOW'' all they write is nothing but Hate,some act like five years old kids, all of this is coming Tim Rohr,Tim says he's winning! he did it all, but nothing about the protesters, what have you win Tim, only dividing the God's Church try to take a good Bishop down want are they going to stop listening to this Man, talk about a sinner.
ReplyDeleteHatred is something comfy to gather around. Some people just like to hate in a group where their hatred is amplified by the hatred emanating from others. Just look at them at their Sunday picket lines. They are like walking in Cloud Nine with joyful faces because of the enjoyment caused in their brains by the biochemistry of hatred. Don't be foolish! Hatred has a biochemical reward mechanism in your body that makes you joyous when you hate. It is very easy to get hooked up on hatred just as on "ice". It gives you illegitimate but immensely satisfying joy. This is the reason these people became hooked up on hatred and would never stop hating!
DeleteHere's what Tim had to say:
ReplyDeleteTimDecember 6, 2016 at 3:20 PM
If we hated Tony, we would have signs that say GO TO HELL, APURON. Apuron is a public person by virtue of his office. He abused that office to amuse and satisfy himself. "Defrock" is short hand for "Remove him from office," the office of the priesthood which he has soiled and stained.
BTW, Apuron is NOT undergoing a canonical trial for sex abuse. That's they myth they want us to believe. His "trial" is more about the 30 year thick file in the Vatican on him that existed long before the sex abuse stuff showed up.
Apuron's trial for sex abuse will be played out in Guam courts.
Dear Reality check,
DeleteThese comments came from Tim Rohr:
1. We can only hope, if we are to give charity a chance, that Archbishop Apuron is severely ill and must be immediately removed. Because if this is not the case, then we have a bishop who is evil incarnate, and he wouldn't be the first one.
http://www.junglewatch.info/2014/08/what-sort-of-bishop.html
2. Archbishop, stay tuned. We will all soon hear your nasty speech from Tagaytay.
The floor of hell, Apuron. The floor of hell.
http://www.junglewatch.info/2014/07/msgr-james-benavente-removed-as-rector.html#more
In his blog, Tim Rohr has also published a post saying "Go to Hell, Pius" and "Go to Hell, Diana."
As I said, he hates and attacks the person. I rest my case
Now, go back and ask Tim where is his substantial evidence that the canonical trial is NOT about the sexual allegations?
"Now, go back and ask Tim where is his substantial evidence that the canonical trial is NOT about the sexual allegations?"
DeleteRight BACK at you, where is your substantial evidence that the canonical trial IS ABOUT the sexual allegations....
Rohr is a prophet of hatred and destruction. He cowardly tries to conceal his hatred, but his words and actions speak against him louder that any loud speaker. JW is a gathering place for people with hatred in their hearts against their brothers.
DeleteDear Peter Palomo,
DeleteAccording to Canon lawyer Jennifer Haselberger, she stated in the Pacific Daily News:
"Canon lawyer Jennifer Haselberger, an expert in church law, said Vatican policy dictates that only Rome can investigate bishops who are accused of sexual abuse..........Haselberger has practiced as a canon lawyer in the U.S. and internationally. She’s also a member of the Canon Law Society of America and earned a licentiate degree in canon law in 2004 from the Catholic University of Leuven, Belgium.
When a bishop is accused of sexually abusing anyone under the age of 18, the investigation process is not one that can be handled at the local level, Haselberger said. “It has to be handled by the Congregation in Rome,” she said."
SO NOW....Go back and ask Tim Rohr where is his substantial evidence showing that the canonical trial for Archbishop Apuron is NOT for the sexual allegations.
That's not evidence. That's an opinion. She makes an assumption and is likely not privy to the case at bar. Like an armchair quarterback.
DeleteDear Peter Paloma,
DeleteThat was not an opinion. She was citing the church law on canonical trials. See weblink below:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0ahUKEwjIqK3S3uHQAhXnqlQKHRLSBEMQFggeMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usccb.org%2Fupload%2FFAQs-canonical-process-sexual-abuse.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGJTDLcUtAqblYXRnzs0lhRUAOFjg&sig2=cFOIBk08qezEZa1T8QpomA
Now again.....go back and ask Tim Rohr to provide his substantial evidence that Archbishop Apuron's canonical trial is NOT on the sexual allegations. If you come back without that evidence, your comment will not be published. I am not here to argue in circles.
Again. it's an opinion. Is she privy to the actual case at bar? No she isn't.
Delete"Only Rome can investigate Bishops who are accused of sexual abuse" Granted, ok, only Rome can do that.
But are you saying that singularly that is only what Rome can investigate? because she is NOT saying that. Unless you have the detail of the case at bar then you don't know what you're talking about.
Now again, go back and provide your substantial evidence that this is only about sexual allegations.
Dear Peter Paloma,
DeleteArchbishop Hon admitted that he sent documents to Rome regarding the sexual allegations for the canonical trial. It is in all the news that the canonical trial is due to the sexual allegations. It is also in the news that Rome removed Archbishop Apuron due to the sexual allegations.
Only Tim has been saying that Apuron was removed for his poor leadership of 30 years. It takes Rome 30 years to remove him? Yet, once the sexual allegations came, they removed him right away. The news reports claim that the canonical trial is for the sexual allegations.
Where is Rohr's evidence that the canonical trial is NOT due to the sexual allegations? Go back and ask him because he is the ONLY one who believes it is not about the sexual allegations, and his followers swallow everything he says.
You cite Abp. Hon to further your point. The same man also said that he came in 2015 with Krebs and Nowak to investigate claims of a weak pastoral leadership AND partly to follow up on the Toves allegations. They came and they found that Apuron was a weak leader. They reported it to Rome and they commenced the process of identifying a Coadjutor Archbishop that eventually replaces Apuron.
DeleteThis is definitely about his leadership, Diana. The sex abuse revealed by Apuron's victims just forced Rome to make moves a lot quicker than they usually would have.
WHY would Pope Francis appoint an Apostolic Administrator with full pastoral and administrative authority over the local church WITHOUT EXCEPTION (the decree makes this explicit even though it is unnecessary to do so) as opposed to a simple Diocesan Administrator to oversee the church's day-to-day operations, Diana?? Rome saw Apuron was a weak leader and when he failed to heed their instructions, and he was accused of sex abuse, they acted. Pope Francis had to clean up the mess Apuron made. Don't be so ignorant because he's "Brother Tony" to you.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:08 am,
DeleteDuring the 30 years of his leadership, Apuron was a strong leader as he fought against casino gambling and same sex marriage. The controversy only started three years ago with the removal of Father Paul and Monsignor James.
If Archbishop Hon had reported to Rome about replacing Apuron with a Coadjutor Archbishop, that information would have been announced in the jungle. It never was. You only heard it recently from an angry Archbishop Hon who did not announce the new Archbishop first.
Dear Anonymous at 11:13 am,
DeleteThe Pope is not going to wait 30 years to remove Archbishop Apuron if his leadership was that bad. He was removed due to the sexual allegations.
Diana, what are you talking about? How would the jungle know about it what was reported by Archbishop Hon to Rome confidentially? Don't you overestimate the capabilities of the jungle? I don't think it was important who announced first Archbishop Byrnes. The fact that Archbishop Apuron was replaced was more important than who conveyed the message first, wasn't it? Why do you say repeatedly it was so important for you?
DeleteApuron was replaced because of his disobedience to the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples of the Holy See. Vatican took the "deed restriction" scandal on the Yona seminary as a last drop in the glass of water. After this scandal he had to go. Archbishop Hon was the first who realized that and told Pope Francis.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:51 pm,
DeleteEverything that has been confidential has been leaked through the jungle. So, this information would have been leaked out since last year. Instead, it was revealed by an angry bishop.
Some intel came out by some helpful persons from the chancery. True. But Hon's report for Vatican was not known in the chancery. because of its confidential nature. Jungle can find out anything accessible. The only things that cannot be found out are those not made accessible.
DeleteArchbishop Apuron did his own share of leaking. He leaked the donor.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 5:35 pm,
DeleteArchbishop Apuron did not leaked who the donor was. Mother Dawn did that in 2014. She leaked to the jungle that the donor were the Carmelites in Missouri. She then came out and leaked the information to the media.
What would Jesus do? If Jesus met multiple ( more than 4) victims that accused the same person of molesting them. What do you think he would do?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 9:53 pm,
DeleteMatthew 8:21-22 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
You can forgive offenses against you. But you cannot forgive sins, because sins are committed against Jesus Christ! Sins can be forgiven only by God.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:54 am,
DeleteSins are ALSO offenses. They are offenses against God. Only God can forgive sins through a priest in the sacrament of Reconciliation. A layperson cannot administer the Sacrament of Reconciliation and therefore cannot forgive sins. That is true.
But offenses committed against people are also sins. When a husband commits adultery, that is a sin against God and against his wife. One cannot say that adultery is a sin against God, but only an offense against the wife as though adultery against the wife is less serious. Adultery is a sin....PERIOD.
God forgives the husband when he confesses his sin of adultery through the Sacrament of Reconciliation. However, his wife should also forgive him that sin of adultery so their marriage can be saved. God tells us to forgive the sins committed against us. In other words, the wife can forgive only her husband's adultery because it was a sin committed against her, but she cannot forgive the adultery of someone else's husband.
This idea of forgiving others who sinned against us is for ourselves and our healing. For example, a wife who does not forgive her husband's adultery even after he continually asks for forgiveness will always harbor bitterness and distrust in her heart.
"Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sinned against us" - taken from the Lord's prayer.
There are offenses that are not sins. If I forget to invite my mother-in law to our birthday celebration, my husband might get offended. But I did not offend Jesus Christ, so I don't need confession, I only need forgiveness from my husband.
DeleteAdultery is sin, because when I cheat on my husband, people in my parish will find out about it. Perhaps they disagree, but some might also want to try it out! I might destroy their moral sense by showing a sinful example. I become a temptation for the morally weak and lead them to the path of sin! That is why it is such serious sin. The parish would suffer greatly because of what I did.
Whenever we sin, we offend Jesus Christ and cause pain to Him. He is still suffering on the cross for us. His suffering is eternal just like our salvation is! I do not want to sin because I do not want Jesus to suffer more. He had already suffered for all of our sins on the cross when He died!
God is an awesome God. We have to fear God because He is the Ruler of the Universe. He hates sin even if He forgives the sinner. His anger is consuming fire and burning brimstone. Do you dare to oppose God who judges you and sends you to perpetual death?
DeleteJesus Christ is an awesome but also loving God. You cannot fear God without feeling the immense love coming from the cross. The only source of love on earth is the glorious cross of Jesus Christ.
DeleteThat is the text that has been used in the Bible to subdue, oppress, enslave cultures killing people in the process. That is precisely why Matapang has to kill Vitores on the beach of Tumon because of disrespect to people's culture and religious differences.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 12:37 am,
DeleteChief Matanpang killed Father San Vitores out of ignorance. He did not want his child baptized because of a rumor he heard that the baptismal waters caused the small pox disease. It was the chief's wife who wanted the child baptized. As the woman, she allowed Father San Vitores to baptized their child. When Chief Matapang found out what his wife had done, he killed the priest. Never mind the fact that it was his wife that allowed it.
We live in a matrilineal society in which the woman is dominant and in charge of the household and the children. The name "Matapang" means "silly" because he was wrong in going against his wife.
Anon 12:37 am, in a maternal culture the mother decides about the fate of the children and not the father. It is just the way it is. Good morning!
DeleteChristians should never destroy local culture. It was a sin of San Vitores to baptize someone against her own will. San Vitores was elevated to sainthood as martyr. But why did he go against chief Matapang? Why did not he wait until the Holy Spirit converts the people without his own violent intrusion into the ancestral beliefs of the inhabitants as expressed by their respected leader?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:15 am,
DeleteActually, it was Chief Matapang who did not follow local culture by going against his wife who approved the baptism of their child. The man has no say in how the children are to be raised or whether they should be baptized or not.
Diana, who was the chief, Matapang or his wifie? Lol. Wives, submit yourselves to your man, says Saint Paul. Don't you agree with her, Diana? Feminism and women's rule over men is wrong, the lure of the devil!
DeleteDear Anonymous at 22:32 pm,
DeleteI take it that you are not from Guam.
The Kingdom of God is guided by the Bible. The word of God is holy. Do neos read the word of God, or only the word of Kiko?
DeleteWives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. (Ephesians 5:22-24)
I think you better reread your post on "Head of Household". You just contradicted yourself. No need to delete post. It was copied and pasted to include all comments.
DeleteLove the one where you stated that this is what is taught to you by the NCW or the part you asked about where in the Bible does it state that the woman is head of household.
Dear Anonymous at 2:26 am,
DeletePlease follow the thread. I was referring to ancient Chamorros culture.
I believe that Tim Rohr is well informed enough on what hate is. Nowhere does he come out explicitly and says he "hates" anyone so your post here is purely conjectural. Your quotations of Tim in your replies are actually true regarding Apuron's public position and trial. While it is clear Rohr has a strong dislike of the Archbishop and leading members of the NCW it does not necessarily or logically follow that he hates anyone. Archbishop Apuron has never asked anyone for forgiveness but if he should in the future, I am certain that most Catholics including and especially T. Rohr would follow Christ's mandate to forgive unconditionally. Presently, however, His Excellency has not shown any remorse or repentance choosing instead silence and aloofness.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 2:00 am,
DeleteA member of the Ku Klux Klan also does not come out and say he hates blacks. The fact that they say they are inferior and discriminate against them already indicates their hate. The fact that Tim demonizes the Archbishop and the NCW and discriminates against them already indicates his hate.
Furthermore! A person who claims that he did not commit those allegations will not come out and repent for something he claimed he did not do. If you were ACCUSED of rape, for example, would you come out and say you were sorry for raping the person even though you raped no one? This is why in our society, we have court systems.
Rohr is a destroyer. He finds great joy and satisfaction to destroy things just for the fun of it! Then he closely watches the destruction causing pain and suffering. Like a kid who likes to see a wounded bug to run and decay. Rohr is not aware of what he is doing and what is the suffering he is causing. In his mind his joy of seeing decay covers the pain he causes to others. He has to be protected from himself!
DeleteThose who preach hatred, incite hatred and advocate hatred while denying that they hate are the true monsters. This is the CCOG folks!
DeletePope say focus on scandal,lies is a kind of 'Sickness' he blasts media over false news,Francis criticized media outlets that look only for negative stories and those that smear people's reputations, but reserved the harshest criticism for those who report untruths. spreading incorrect information,Francis said in an interview published Wednesday in Tertio, pope Francis reportedly compared news outlets that grab for a juicy story,even when it's untrue,to those who participate in ''Coprophilia.'' Sounds like something Tim Rohr doing!!Tim is just trying to bring the Bishop who live all his life in Guam, whose family was Prisoners of the Japanese who hidden in the Jungle until the Americans came. how Could Tim Rohr who came here in the 80's to tell the Bishop that he don't belong here,the Bishop ''Innocent'' Nothing but ''TIM ROHR CONSPIRACY''WAKE UP PEOPLE
DeleteThe masons are in action day and night to inflict more and more destruction, suffering and pain on all people Catholics. Now, they are writing bills of millions and millions of dollars that they want the parishes to pay for them for their ugly job. They have no sense of right from wrong, they are obnoxious as the father the devil who was a liar and murderer from the beginning!
DeleteAnon 7:20 am, yes, it is true. Rohr brags a lot of how much fun he has in destroying people and the church!
DeleteDear voice, you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, the Masons are active and have infiltrated and affected the Church, but you are looking in the wrong place, dear.
DeleteMason Clergy members worst.
Deleteplot plan daily attacking Church leadership inciteing violence hatred.
Wherever the church is suffering, wherever Catholic people are tortured because of their faith, wherever inordinate amount of money is extorted from the innocent faithful in the name of some kind of fake "justice", you see the masons in action. They are always pushing for more and more scandals to make everything worse and worse! Never making things better. Are you blind that you do no see?
DeleteOne day, all the afflictions of the church on Guam will cease, all the divisions will be healed, but you cannot undo the monetary damages that will haunt the parishes for decades to come. There is no reconciliation possible with those who make lawsuit against the church, looting millions and millions of dollars and dispossessing the poor. There is no reconciliation with the devil! There is no reconciliation with the masons!
Angry folks are very few.
ReplyDeleteunfortunately, their anger spreads through social media creating other angry folks.
Amazed how much time angry folks have to incite hate in social media pages. Constantly active in social media 24/7. When do they work? When do they sleep?
Diana you need to read Conspiracy Theorists: Pizzagate' shooting just a false flag AP..... Associated press,Conspiracy theorists can help believers process horrific news, such as child sex abuse scandals involving the Catholic Church James Broderick, co- author of ''Web of Conspiracy: A Guide to Conspiracy theory Sites on the Internet sounds like Timmy in the Jungle
ReplyDelete