Some people think that the NCW was stopped in Japan. This is false. The NCW is very much active in Japan despite that some Bishops in Japan wanted to expel the Way for five years. The Pope told the Bishops of Japan that the Way will continue and cannot be expelled from Japan. The Neocatechumenal Way has the blessing and support of the Pope, the Vicar of Christ. This is the truth, and this truth shows beyond any doubt that the Way is Catholic. The family in the video below was sent by Pope Francis as missionaries to Japan.
We are speaking to deaf ears when we venture into the topic of MISSIONS. Most of those who are against the NCW do not understand what is meant by being missionary.
ReplyDeleteTo be on mission means to go beyond the geographic setting of the parish. This is where we have the problem. These people do not know how to go beyond the parish, even beyond the parish church building for that matter. A parish is based on geographical boundaries and to be on mission means to go further than those boundaries, even outside of a diocese.
The missions are very important because it invites us to go out and seek those that either dont go to the parish, are not practicing catholics or have never been baptized into Christianity. There is a parish that has all the sacraments, conducts cathechism, has a whole lot of distinguished programs and gatherings but are only centered around those that are already regular parishioners. What about the rest of the people?
If we were to compare the amount of baptized catholics to the amount that actually attend the parish, it does not even equal 50%. How do we reach the other 50%?
This is why the NCW whos very core is missionary takes on an active role in evangelization. At times, and even Pope Francis has reminded us that we must even announce the gospel to those who are baptized who have been far away from the church for most of their life, what more those who have never heard of Jesus Christ.
To speak of this missionary zeal to the protesters is foreign it even gets harder to speak to those who are latin enthusiasts.
People think that the experiences that are given at the Sunday Masses are the only announcements that go out for the catechesis that the NCW conducts in the parish. What they dont realize is that prior to that Sunday, even weeks in advance, members of the NCW have gone door to door to announce the good news to the people. Our catechists often remind us that the most important thing is to announce the good news and to break away from the invitational aspect. Its never about numbers. I remember when I first attended the catechesis, there was only a handful(no more than 5) of us who were listening but yet the catechist team of about 10 continued to come for all those weeks. Even currently in Asan, there is only one married coupled who continues to come week after week but the catechists continue anyways.
I saw first hand the situation in Japan during our lay over on our way to Poland and I was very much consoled by the zeal they continue to have despite the obstacles. The mission that we did in the park was an experience. To speak of Jesus Christ in a predominantly unchristianized country was a grace. Even to raise the processional Crucifix as we went around singing was despised. I realized how blessed we were to live on an island where we are allowed to display publicly our faith in Christ.
Im very glad that my eyes were opened to see that Christianity, Catholicism is way beyond the four walls of the church.
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
RIGHT>>>>>ON -JOKER WILD +
DeleteNCW moraturium in Guam same as in the Archdiocese of Pangasinan in the Philippines is needed to help NCW get rid of their idols.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 6:36 am,
DeleteThe NCW in the Philippines still exists. They went underground.
Why would they hide if there is nothing to fear or if they aren't doing anything wrong? Why go underground?
DeleteWeisenberger resigned from the financial council. He had an altercation with Father Jeff and Richard Untalan and he left. More details later.
DeleteHon’s administration continues to leave casualties all over…
Dear Anonymous at 8:49 am,
DeleteWhen Christians are persecuted, they go underground. At Anonymous 8:59 am, would Mr. Weisenberger make his reasons public?
Diana, how can NCW groups go underground? Your Statutes are clear: you operate under the permission and in service of the local bishop! If the bishop does not permit NCW activity, then you must go to another diocese.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:15 am,
DeleteIt is not necessary to go to another diocese. They continue the celebrations in the homes of the brothers. No bishop can stop the celebration of the word and the spreading of the Gospels because that is the duty of every Catholic. They can attend the Eucharist in the parish, but the celebration of the word and the spreading of the gospel continues on. It is the duty of every Catholic to evangelize. So, the communities can continue to grow through evangelization.
So, you readily admit that the NCW operates independently of the Bishop, and that the Statutes references to being in service to the Bishop etc are just a ruse! This is rather incredible. But, I suppose the truth comes out eventually
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:28 am,
DeleteOn the contrary. I admitted that no bishop can stop a Catholic from reading and studying the Bible (which is what the celebration of the word is) and from evangelizing. Why? Because that is the duty granted to every baptized Catholic? What part in there did you not understand?
The part where you said that the NCW "went underground". So this is not simply a Catholic exercising his/her rights to read and study the Bible. It is the continuation of the formal NCW process, presumably with the continuation of the involvement in catechesis, in the steps, and under the direction of the NCW hierarchy.
DeleteQuite a different proposition to what you imply in your statement at 12.26pm.
In accordance with the Statutes of the NCW, the NCW has no validity without the express support and direction of the Ordinary (the Bishop or his Vicar), but you have admitted that that means very little when it comes down to it.
NCW is operating under the auspices of the local bishop. You must be obedient to him. If the local bishop says no, that means no.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:25 pm,
DeleteDid I not say that they go underground due to the persecution. The NCW have every right to exist because it is recognized by the Pope and also because the bishops are now encouraged to accept all new movements and communities. The fact that the bishop disobeyed the Pope and attempts to eliminate the NCW is the reason to go underground.
Reading and studying the bible is not an NCW thing. It is a Catholic thing. Evangelization is also not an NCW thing. It is a Catholic thing. The only thing that we would be obedient in is that we would not do the Eucharist. As I said in my previous comment, they will attend the Eucharist in the Parish. But underground, the NCW can continue the celebration of the word and to evangelize.
Anon 1128:
DeleteWhat Diana meant by going underground was that if a moratorium is placed on the NCW in whereas they will no longer be allowed to celebrate in the parishes, they instead will go to the homes. If there is a moratorium on the Eucharist, then they will just attend the Eucharist in the parish.
The celebration of the word does not require a priest to be presiding over it. It will be a simple proclamation of the readings and some experiences and then prayer and dismissal.
Despite that the NCW is very missionary, the end deal is to bring people back to the church, back to the parish, contrary to what the jungle says in which they believe that the NCW wants to demolish the parish structure. So eventually everything that the NCW does leads back to the parish as its center. So if the parish does not want the NCW presence then they just go to the homes.
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
Diana, what are you talking about? The Pope has never said bishops must allow NCW activity in their dioceses. Bishops may or may not allow NCW to operate in the parishes under their purview. You are not telling the truth. Bishops who boot NCW from their dioceses do not disobey the Pope!
DeleteBishops are not encouraged to accept all new movements! The current church document claims that only those new movements have a right to exist is Catholic parishes that acknowledge the leadership of the parish priest. A consecrated person is always above laity.
NCW defies the instruction of the Holy See when places consecrated priests under lay Catholics! A great heresy in the ranks of the neo is that lay people dictate to priests! Perhaps that is why you call them presbyters, because NCW in effect strips them from their priesthood.
Dear Anonymous at 4:27 pm,
DeleteThe document "Iuvenescit Ecclesia" passed by the Vatican and addresses to all Catholic bishops said that bishops are to support all the charisms, movements, and communities. And for you information, we do not place the priests below the lay people. Every Catechist team have a priest as a part of their team because it is their job to guide the lay Catechists and ensure that Catholic doctrines are properly taught.
I love this line, said in defense:
Delete"The only thing that we would be obedient in is .... "
That's awesome Diana.
From the Statutes:
"The Neocatechumenal Way is at the service of the bishop"
"under the jurisdiction, direction of the diocesan bishop"
"to make available to the diocesan bishops"
"to maintain regular relations with the diocesan bishops"
"The Neocatechumenate is an instrument at the service of the bishops"
"in fulfillment of the tasks assigned them by their diocesan bishop"
"takes place according to the dispositions of the
diocesan bishop."
"The Neocatechumenal Way is thus an instrument at the service of the bishops"
But, if they want you to change or amend something in the NCW - then, to hell with the Bishop, you say, we'll do it ourselves.
"it is their job to guide the lay Catechists and ensure that Catholic doctrines are properly taught. "
DeleteThem they are failing, or they don't have the power and authority. Its as simple as that.
Dear Anonymous at 5:33 pm,
DeleteAs I said, no bishop can stop a Catholic from reading and studying the bible. A Bishop can tell the NCW not to do the Eucharist and attend the Eucharist in the parish, and that is acceptable. That can be done. However, no bishop can stop the NCW from reading and studying the Bible, which is basically what the celebration of the word is. Makes you even wonder what kind of Catholic bishop would even stop a Catholic from reading the Holy Bible.
Dear Anonymous at 5:34 pm,
DeleteThey are not failing. You simply chose to believe those who oppose the Way such as Tim Rohr and Chuck White, who only cite Anti-Neo websites that were frozen in time.
Diana, you can read the Bible, true. Nobody can prevent that. But no special charism will be present at your little gathering if the bishop does not allow it. The flow of charism is subjected to the ordinary and the church hierarchy. Without the bishop's permission, the charism you aim for is simply extinguished and is no more! No kidding, girl.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:08 pm,
DeleteAll charisms come from the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit can inspire anyone, including the laypeople.
Pope Francis had to say this:
Delete"Only the Spirit can awaken diversity, plurality and multiplicity, while at the same time building unity. Here too, when we are the ones who try to create diversity and close ourselves up in what makes us different and other, we bring division. When we are the ones who want to build unity in accordance with our human plans, we end up creating uniformity, standardization. But if instead we let ourselve be guided by the Spirit, richness, variety and diversity never become a source of conflict, because he impels us to experience variety within the communion of the Church. Journeying together in the Church, under the guidance of her pastors who possess a special charism and ministry, is a sign of the working of the Holy Spirit." Pope Francis, homily at Pentecost Mass, May 19, 2013
https://zenit.org/articles/pope-francis-homily-at-pentecost-mass/
What does the Pope say about NCW here, Diana? NCW tries to create diversity but, in fact, closes itself into division. NCW impels itself to experience variety without the communion of the Church, thus it becomes a source of conflict.
The pastors are those who possess a special charism and ministry. Pope Francis does not talk about lay catechists in the NCW, he talks about the parish priest and the local bishop! When you shun the instruction from your bishop, it is not a sign of the Holy Spirit.
The charisms of the Catholic Church are not given once and for all. Charism must be discerned which is an ongoing process that needs to be renewed over and over again. Discerning the charism of NCW operatives is not easy because they do not submit to the church hierarchy.
EWTN says this:
DeleteThus the Church on the one hand recognizes that the Holy Spirit moves where He will, and so she does not want to oppose His working, and on the other, that the Church must discern the authenticity of each charism, lest it be a deception of the evil one. For this reason to say that the Charismatic Renewal is approved by the Church is not a blanket approval of every alleged charismatic gift or every charismatic group or individual within the Church. The discernment of the Holy Spirit's action is an ongoing necessity within the Church and within the Charismatic Renewal.
https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/charismatic_renewal.htm
Dear Anonymous at 9:44 am,
DeleteThe fact that the Vatican has approved the Statutes and Catechetical Directory of the Way is proof of its authenticity. The fact that we have undergone an investigation and passed is proof of our authenticity. Pope Francis ceased the investigations into the Way.
Diana, the Statutes is only a legal document. How would a legal text prove that work of the Spirit? A charism is so much more than a piece of paper. You have read, the discernment of the charism is an ongoing process. The validity of the work of the charism is tested by criteria set by the Holy See. If you don't pass the criteria then you are disobedient to the Holy See.
DeleteI am not talking about any kind of investigation. That would be like applying the law. I am not talking about applying the law, but about applying discernment. NCW fails to criteria set forth by the Holy See, because it submits the Holy Order of the the Catholic Church to lay intrusion. NCW submits the authority of consecrated priests and bishops to lay catechists.
Dear Anonymous at 10:04 am,
DeleteThe NCW does not submit the authority of consecrated priests and bishops to lay catechists. Again that is a false rumor. The priests are part of the catechist team who ensure that the lay people who evangelizes does it correctly. Even the International Team has a priest (Father Mario). Why do you think Father Mario accompanies the founders Kiko Arguello and Carmen Hernandez?
Diana, you ask: “Dear Anonymous at 10:04 am, What made you say that the NCW did not pass the criteria?”
DeleteSome very important criteria NCW violates every day:
Communion with the Catholic Church and submission to consecrated clergy:
Witness to a real communion with the whole Church. This requires a “filial relationship to the Pope, in total adherence to the belief that he is the perpetual and visible center of unity of the universal Church, and with the local bishop, ‘the visible principle and foundation of unity’ in the particular Church”.[73] This implies a “loyal readiness to embrace the[ir] doctrinal teachings and pastoral initiatives”.
Visible participation in parish life:
“A sure sign of the authenticity of a charism is its ecclesial character, its ability to be integrated harmoniously into the life of God’s holy and faithful people for the good of all. Something truly new brought about by the Spirit need not overshadow other gifts and spiritualities in making itself felt”
Commitment to social change:
“The kerygma has a clear social content: at the very heart of the Gospel is life in community and engagement with others”.[82] This criteria of discernment, which refers not exclusively to lay entities in the Church, underlines the necessity of being “fruitful outlets for participation and solidarity in bringing about conditions that are more just and loving within society”
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20160516_iuvenescit-ecclesia_en.html
Dear Anonymous at 10:24 am,
DeleteIf you had been following my blog for the last three years, you have already known that we met all those criteria. We have already said that the way the NCW celebrates the Eucharist has been approved by the Pope.
Many of the NCW members participate in the parish life of the Church. In fact, many of us are Eucharistic ministers, lectors, sing in the Church choir, serve as altar servers, volunteer as CCD teachers, work in the parish office, and even maintain the grounds of the parish.
You mean Fr. Mario had accompanied Carmen in heaven?
DeleteIt is not false rumor. The RMS plot, if it is true what I read at the JungleWatch blog, was forced on Guam Catholics by lay people who are not supervisors of Archbishop Apuron. Apuron would not have done such a thing ever by his own.
In the board of guarantors of the RMS, lay people dictate about church property with veto power. That church property belongs to the Catholic Church of Guam.
Dear Anonymous at 10:31 am,
DeleteI was referring to the past when Carmen was still walking on this earth.
I am not going to debate with you about RMS under this thread. Please stick to the OP. You can always take RMS to court and resolve it there. Arguing back and forth on this blog will not resolve anything. CCOG said they will take it to court, then please have then take it to court so the issue can be resolved there once and for all.
Diana, you just announced that despite a bishop's disapproval you still continue your practices "underground". This is defying church authority. You openly defy the authority of Apostolic Administrator Savio Hon!
DeleteIf you are an Eucharistic minister, then you act on your own. It has nothing to do with NCW charism. NCW is not visible in parish life, it is hiding in dark rooms. You do not come forward to the bright light of the consecrated church space filled by the Holy Spirit. You are not visible as sharing the charism of NCW with the ecclesia.
Dear Anonymous at 10:39 am,
DeleteGoing underground is what all persecuted Christians do.
I see......so if I am a Eucharistic minister, you say that I am acting on my own. But when I am on the Archdiocesan finance council, you say that I am NCW and should be removed from the finance board. Sounds to me like you alone determine when and what I am. That does not make any sense.
...the Government of Guam by the Department of Land Management who has issued certificates of title confirming the ownership in the Archdiocese of Agana…”
ReplyDeleteThe Department of Land Management does not "confirm" anything. The DLM can only record instruments affecting title to real property and issue documents reflecting those instruments.
As someone involved in real property transactions on a daily basis, I, as well as anyone else in my industry, can tell you that a certificate of title means nothing. What matters is the list of instruments affecting the title, including mortgages, liens, encumbrances, and a whole host of items that often turn up on a title report and may or may not be recorded on a certificate of title.
In the case of the Yona Property, the Declaration of Deed Restriction DID show up on the title report.
Full document here
If the property was subject to a transaction, the interested party (a buyer or a lender) would have sought a legal interpretation of the the DDR before proceeding with any transaction involving the property, especially since the PTR identified a "grantor," obviously meaning that there was also a "grantee."
Grantor and Grantee are terms of conveyance. The conveyance was hidden by the title of the instrument which used the word "Declaration" and camouflaged the word "deed" with the word "restriction."
Dear Anonymous at 8:17 pm,
DeletePlease stick to the OP.
Diana, how can you continue with the Word in the houses without the priest guidance. I thin and believe that you have strayed away from the Catholic church as prophesied in 1989. Going underground is defiance to the original charism of the Way. You know it.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:22 pm,
DeleteAs Jokers Wild pointed out, all we do at the word is read the readings in the Bible, echo your own experiences, pray, and then we are dismissed. We do not need a priest to read the Bible for us when we are capable of reading it. Do you not read the Bible at home and pray? Does a priest need to come to your house to show you how to read the Bible and to pray?
No, but don't you need a priest to help with the interpretation so that what you read, you interpret according to the Catholic church? We could read the same passage and have two different interpretations.
DeleteFurthermore, not needing a priest or leader to guide you in the faith seems to me like you could make up your own rules and do what you want based on your interpretation of "the rules". Add in a person who has been away from the church who doesn't know any better and what would be the result? Should or should we not be concerned about that?
Dear Anonymous at 6:39 am,
DeleteWe do not interpret the readings in the celebration of the word. I repeat....we do NOT interpret the readings in the celebration of the word. The interpretation is ALREADY in the footnotes of the New Jerusalem Bible. The New Jerusalem Bible has side references and footnotes, which we read during our preparation. The footnotes are the Church's explanations and interpretations. Again, we do not need a priest to teach us how to read the Holy Bible and to pray. The celebration of the word contains four readings picked from the Bible, some experience, a prayer, and then dismissal. Do YOU need a priest to teach you how to read the Holy Bible?
If you don't have to be in the NCW to read the bible, share experiences, and pray, why would you need to go underground?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:32 am,
DeleteFor the fifth time, it is because we are being persecuted. Whenever Christians are persecuted, they go underground. If we do not go underground, do you this this celebration of the word will continue? Of course not. Many Catholics do not read the Holy Bible or go out to evangelize in two by twos.
Anon. 11:32 am,
DeleteMost Catholics don't read the bible. To ensure that Catholics in the Way continue to read the bible, they go underground otherwise they end up like most Catholics who don't read the bible. The celebration of the word goes on even if they put a moratorium on is cuz they can't stop anyone from reading the bible. If they kick us out of the diocese, we celebrate in the homes of the brothers.
Who on earth persecutes you, Diana?
DeleteThis is so untrue! I know many who go to the daily mass. They read the reading every day! In Missalette you can go back and forth comparing the daily word. Do you read the Missalette? In the neo there is no Missalette. It thrown out as unsalted.
DeleteYou can't say most Catholics don't read the Bible. It is a lie. Most Catholics know the Bible much better than the neo. You start a Bible quote, and they'll finish from memory. That how good we are. Because we know the Word of God by heart!
You neos just... soooooo unjust with the rest of us!
Dear Anonymous at 12:47 pm,
DeleteIt is the devil hiding behind the people who kept shouting that the NCW should get out of Guam.
Then why won't attending daily mass and receiving the Eucharist daily be enough? You could even gather before/after the mass and share your experiences. It includes all the elements that you mentioned and comes with the added bonus of holy ground, a priest, and the Eucharist. I don't think the leaders of the church would prevent you from doing that. Or would you prefer to go underground instead to read the bible and pray together as a group?
DeleteI'm not against the Way, I would just like to understand why you would choose to hide instead of find a creative and alternative way to celebrate the word.
So the answer to the devil trying to kick you out is to take his advice and run and hide the light of Christ instead of fighting back in a way he cannot take from you through the protection of the church?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 2:50 pm,
DeleteHave you gone to daily Mass? We have, and all you see are the elderly folks. Where are the youth? In the celebration of the word, the youth are there. We would go underground to ensure that the youth continue to read the Holy Bible.
Dear Anonymous at 3:21 pm,
DeleteWe have been fighting back with the truth. Father Pius came out and told the truth that the Deed Restriction can only be removed by the Archbishop of Agana and his successor. Jackie Terlaje published the truth about Monsignor James in the media and reported him to GPD and the AG's office. The Board of Directors told the truth about the biased report of Father Jeff regarding the seminary. My blog reveals the truth about Chuck White's prejudice against the Way.
Diana 4:47pm,
DeleteSo when the old folk die, what are you going to do about the even more empty pews at daily mass because these young people would rather go to your celebrations of the word than to daily mass?
Dear Anonymous at 6:44 pm,
DeleteGod will always be with His Church until the end of time. The Catholic Church will always exist. After all, look at the Japanese Catholics who survived for centuries without priests. They came out from persecution. The same will happen after the old folks die.
Anon 644pm:
DeleteWhy in the world would want to ask the NCW what is the plan when all the old folks die? Hello, the young eventually get old, you replace them. Anyways that is a good question to ask your pastor. It is possible that if your pastor is not RMS formed then he will probably say, "we should form a youth group" or some other kind of parish group. If your pastor is RMS formed he might say to you, "Can you join me to go visit the homes?".
Do you see the difference? The NCW does not want to get rid of the parish but it comes to aide the parish in areas that are usually weak, like in evangelization, going out. You first have to admit to the common similarities of the parish structure, they only cater to those who already attend the parish, which is in most cases only 10-20% of the population of the parish jurisdiction. What about the other 80%?
The future of the church is outside of the church.
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
Yes, you can read the bible all day for all i care. It is not NCW any longer.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 4:57 am,
DeleteDespite the Moratorium in the Philippines, the NCW exists. In fact, they made it to WYD in Poland. The NCW youth in the Philippines were also in the last WYD in Brazil. See the weblinks below:
http://neocatechemunal.blogspot.com/2014/06/ncw-youths-in-world-youth-day.html
http://neocatechemunal.blogspot.com/2014/06/kiko-arguello-in-philippines_6.html
Father Miguel Angel got SUMMA CUM LAUDE.
ReplyDeleteThere are two other priests from Guam doing postgraduate studies. They are Father Julio Caesar Malagon Sanchez, Vice Rector of the Seminary Redemptoris Mater in Yona and Father Fabio Faiola, formerly pastor in Santa Rita.
Another student formed in our Redemptoris Mater Seminary, Father Edivaldo Da Silva, pastor in Chalan Pago, completed his Licentiate studies on matrimony, in Rome with the highest distinction.
All fruit of the RMS