Father Pius was in Rome attending that convivience. He recently returned from his trip in Rome to transmit what he received to the Responsibles and Co-Responsibles. Then the Responsibles and Co-Responsibles would transmit what they were given at the Beginning of the Year Convivience to their communities in what we call a "Transmittal Convivience."
One of the things that Father Pius shared with us at the retreat was the document "Iuvenescit Ecclesia," a document passed by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in May, 2016. It was a letter addressed to all the Bishops of the Catholic Church. You can read the entire letter here. The Neocatechumenal Way is included as one of the charisms of the Church along with many others. Some people consider us a movement, but Father Pius made it very clear yesterday that the NCW is an itinerary to Christian formation. It is similar to the RCIA program in a parish. Its goal is to form Christians.
This document "Iuvenescit Ecclesia" was addressed to all the Bishops of the Catholic Church. In this letter, all Bishops and priests were encouraged to support these charisms, movements, and communities such as the NCW, the Focolare, the Charismatic Renewal, the Cursillios, etc. The NCW is not the only one being persecuted. Other lay movements in the Church are also feared by people because they do not understand them. However, the Vatican insists that all these lay movements are nothing to be afraid of. Cardinal Gerhard Muller, Prefect from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith stated according to EWTN:
The new movements, and their charisms, are good ways of responding to such challenges, he said. Parishes, religious orders, bishops, and priests should all “go together” with these new movements to meet the challenges of today.
Reflecting on the document's title, which means “The Church rejuvenates”, Cardinal Müller said the Church “is always young because we believe in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and therefore death cannot overcome us.” He added that the grace of the sacraments is necessary “for the renewal of our lives.”
Iuvenescit Ecclesia notes that the Holy Spirit builds up and renews the Church through both hierarchical and charismatic gifts, and focuses on the new realities which “fill the heart of the Church with joy and gratitude and are called to relate positively with all of the other gifts present in ecclesial life.”
It notes that in the New Testament, there is no “opposition between the diverse charisms … The antithesis between an institutional Church of the Judeo-Christian type and a charismatic Church of the Pauline type, affirmed by certain reductive ecclesial interpretations, in reality lacks a foundation in the texts of the New Testament.”
Dear Diana,
ReplyDeleteif I understand correctly, a major distinction between the Neocatechumenal communities and other faith groups inside the Catholic church is that
- Catholics normally accept instructions as authoritative from ordained priests and bishops and subject their group activity to the approval of these church leaders. In case of collision they take side with their authoritative church leaders even against their own group leaders. Consecrated priests always have primacy over lay group elects.
- In NCW, members accept the authority of ordained priests and bishops so far as they are in agreement with group leaders/ catechists. They never subject NCW practices to priests. Instruction from authoritative church leaders are only heeded if approved by catechists. In case of collision NCW members take side with their catechists, even against their authoritative church leaders. Catechists have primacy over consecrated priests.
Iuvenescit Ecclesia claims back church authority from lay people to the priesthood! I do not think this church document supports the current practices of the Neocatechumenal Way. Rather, it criticizes the excesses of the Neocatechumenal reality. This reality is especially controversial here on Guam, where the NCW-controlled RMS was hijacked from the rightful owner for NCW purposes "in perpetuity".
You should not claim support from this document. It is more like anti-NCW than pro-NCW! You rather should look into your organization's structure, its separation from the parishes, its disdain for the priesthood and make changes to follow church directives as expressed in Iuveniscit Ecclesia!
You should come back to the Catholic Mother Church and embrace it as it is: led by consecrated clergy, rather than an army of catechists whose number one concern is to "transmit" instruction from leaders who operate apart from the church and its hierarchy. Submit yourself to the church, submit yourself to the priesthood, submit yourself to the Holy See!
Dear grow up in faith,
DeleteDid you read the OP? The NCW and all other lay movements follow the Pope. This is where our communion lies. In this document published by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, it addressed the bishops to support all charisms. The NCW has the support and blessing of Pope Francis; therefore, we have always been recognized as being part of the Catholic Church. Do you not think it is time for YOU to return to the Mother Church by embracing what Pope Francis have embraced?
No, Diana, you do not follow the Holy See, as Archbishop Hon pointed out. Hon says the Holy See asked the NCW to withdraw the deed restriction on the RMS. It does not matter if it was Pope Francis or a congregation. Either was, the Holy See has authority over church matters. NCW refuses to obey the Holy See. Why?
DeleteYou keep repeating the formula of Fr. Pius that only Apuron has the right to withdraw the deed restriction. Then why doesn't Apuron comply? This is disobedience to the Holy See. If Apuron is obedient to his catechist, then his catechist should tell Apuron to comply with the instruction of the Holy See. Does his catechist tell him this? Yes or no? If not, why not?
People see manipulation here on a grand scale, dear Diana, and you cannot explain this away. Does Apuron obey Fr. Pius? How is so? Fr. Pius is not above him in the church hierarchy! Does Apuron obey Kiko? How is so? Kiko is a layman, not a consecrated person! Does Apuron obey the Holy See? If he obeys Kiko rather than the Holy See or any congregation of the Holy See, then he violates his oath as a bishop, because he acts against the will of the Holy See.
There are criteria to decide if a new ecclesiastical charismatic group like the NCW follows the church. These criteria are listed as a-b-c-d-e-f-g-h in Iuvenescit Ecclesia. It is time to see if NCW passes these criteria or fails them miserably. Discerning charism means that after an initial time of patience there will be harsh decisions made. The Guam story of NCW with the RMS controversy may make a strong point in Vatican to usher a harsh decision about the charism of NCW.
Father Pius claimed several times that the people of Guam did not contribute any penny to the purchase of RMS. Is this so, Diana? What is the point? Then is it right to take it away from the people of Guam? Is this what Fr. Pius is trying to say? Let me remind you that any penny RMS receives from the NCW belongs to the church in the first place! NCW could not collect money apart from the Catholic church? Are you only using the Catholic church as a cover-up for financial transactions or do you really belong to the Catholic church, Diana?
Dear grow up in faith,
DeleteThe Pope never asked the NCW to rescind the deed restriction. That is a fact. Archbishop Hon was the one who asked the community (whatever he is referring to is uncertain) to rescind the deed restriction. He was asking something that is impossible to accomplish. Only Archbishop Apuron has the authority to rescind the deed restriction. Archbishop Apuron already gave his reason why he refuse to rescind the deed restriction.
Since the deed restriction has not been rescinded all CCOG has to do is take the Board of Directors and the Board of Guarantors to court if they believe that the RMS property does not belong to the Archdiocese of Agana. Let the secular court determine the ownership of the property.
You say that any penny that RMS receive from the NCW belongs to the Church? The NCW does not give anything to RMS. Only the MEMBERS of the NCW give their money to RMS, and you do not have any say on what I do with my money. My money is mine to give away to whomever I want.
Yep. My donation is going to RMS and the John Paul II seminary, not to the Archdiocese.
Delete"The NCW does not give anything to RMS. Only the MEMBERS of the NCW give their money to RMS, and you do not have any say on what I do with my money. My money is mine to give away to whomever I want."
DeleteThe point is that the NCW claim to be Catholic, use the authority of the Catholic Church to claim a certain credibility, and back up their requests (demands?) for financial assets from it members based on inferred authority of the Church. It is in that way that donations made to the RMS or NCW are in fact Church donations.
How about you tell the truth - that you're not actually Catholic, and have no real commitment to the ordinary authority of the Church. That instead you are using the Church to gain the credibility you need to get rich!
At 4:44 pm, I'm with you.
DeleteYou are not right, Diana. I have nothing to do with CCOG but I am repulsed by the manipulations I see around the RMS. You did not answer any of my questions.
DeleteIf Apuron obeys the NCW then NCW should tell Apuron to comply with the Holy See. Pope Francis stands behind the congregations of the Holy See. You cannot disobey them without disobeying the Pope.
What people see is that Kiko instructed Fr. Pius who dictated every word Apuron said to the media. The sad thing is that the disobedience of Apuron is, in fact, the disobedience of Kiko. It is not only Archbishop Hon who can clearly see this but everyone who takes the time to read.
You say the money NCW members give to RMS has nothing to do with the diocese. It is very sad. It is like telling your mother that you'll spend every penny of your money as you wish, even though you live in her house.
No, Diana. Even if you have a job and you make your own money, you owe respect to your money. Not only because you live in her house but also because it was she who gave you birth, who gave you your genes, nourished you and raised you. Without her you would amount to nothing.
In the same manner, without the Catholic church, NCW would amount to nothing. The church was there when you started, the church gave you your beliefs, the church gave you your doctrines. The church gives you a space to hold your gatherings, the church gives you the Sacraments and the presence of Jesus Christ. You owe the Catholic church, Diana you owe the archdiocese big time!
Iuvenescit Ecclesia is a last attempt by Vatican to call Kiko to return to his senses. If he continues alienating his followers from the parishes, fighting against legitimate church authorities and manifesting his greedy disobedience toward the Holy See, then NCW will be shut down after his departure, even its traces will be poured over with salt. No question about it. Is this what you really want?
Dear Anonymous at 4:51 pm,
DeleteThe NCW IS Catholic. That is the truth. The only ones who say that we are not Catholic are the jungle, CCOG, and LFM. The fact that you do not believe us is not my problem.
Dear Grow up in faith,
DeleteYou stated: "Iuvenescit Ecclesia is a last attempt by Vatican to call Kiko to return to his senses."
"Iuvenescit Ecclesia" was addressed to all Bishops of the Catholic Church to accept all lay movements, and communities. It was NOT addressed to Kiko Arguello.
You also stated: "You say the money NCW members give to RMS has nothing to do with the diocese. It is very sad. It is like telling your mother that you'll spend every penny of your money as you wish, even though you live in her house.
No, Diana. Even if you have a job and you make your own money, you owe respect to your money. Not only because you live in her house but also because it was she who gave you birth, who gave you your genes, nourished you and raised you. Without her you would amount to nothing."
This does not make any sense at all. Money did not give birth to me.
LOL at 4:51 and Grow up in faith, you guys are funny. Did you know that in every village in Guam only 10 percent of the people there go to church? What are you doing to help those 80 percent discover God? If you are not doing anything then you are being disobedient to God since God gave the instruction to "go an announce to all the brothers....."
DeleteBy the way, many of us Catholics in the NCW give money, and devote our time to serving churches in the Archdiocese.We don't go around seeking attention for it.
So that is why I LOL at you guys cause your ignorant and you don't know it. Hahaha....that's funnier.
DCI
My apologies, Diana. It is read: "Even if you have a job and you make your own money, you owe respect to your MOTHER."
DeleteThe typo was my bad. But you should have understood it if you really wanted... I was talking about your mother, who is your church.
Dear Grow up in faith,
DeleteMy earthly mother is not the Catholic Church nor is she "my" Church. My earthly mother is a member of the Catholic Church just as I am.
Diana, nobody said the Mother Church is your biological mother. But the same way as you get everything in your body and mind from your mother, your charism gets everything in soul and spirit from the Catholic church. Don't you agree?
DeleteDear grow up in faith,
DeleteThe money I have and earned has nothing to do with my mother. God gave me the talents, intellect, and skills for me to use in order to make an income. I can donate my money to whomever and whatever I want. You have no say in it.
Thank you Diana my donations going to RMS. I found out certain grave plots been sold twice thrice over. A particular plot intended for use already contains a body. I am sorry but I Cannot trust former CC Director.
ReplyDeleteAtty.Jackie please assist.
Diana . How do we read Atty.Jackie's report given to chancery today. I would like to see credit card bills. Thankyou.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 6:20 pm,
DeleteHer final report is found in KUAM news:
http://www.kuam.com/story/33352597/2016/10/Monday/former-board-refused-to-be-complicit-in-alleged-cover-up
Diana, this was my question: why is RMS not returned to the Catholic church, as Archbishop Hon and the Holy See (congregation) requested? Please, don't duck the question. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteDear grow up in faith,
DeleteRMS already belongs to the Archdiocese of Agana. It was never given away. It is not my problem if you do not believe that. You can always bring it to court and it can be resolved there.
Diana, I am not CCOG. I told you so. I am not going to court. Archbishop Hon has the direct authorization from Pope Francis to clean up the mess in the archdiocese of Guam.
DeleteYou play this game of hide and seek. It is demeaning, not for me, but first of all for you. Returning RMS to the church means to withdraw the deed restriction that allows NCW to use the property "in perpetuity". This is the real issue, everything else is junk talk.
Let me repeat for a last time: why doesn't NCW instructs Apuron to withdraw the deed restriction? Why? I have a hunch that it is Kiko who gave the instruction through Fr. Pius to Apuron to refuse the request of the Holy see. This would give me very far reaching conclusions about Kiko's leadership and the whole NCW structure.
Here is your chance to convince me otherwise. Are you ready to talk about what is important or you just continue scratching the surface? Your choice!
Dear grow up in faith,
DeleteYou stated: "Returning RMS to the church means to withdraw the deed restriction that allows NCW to use the property "in perpetuity"."
No it does not. The deed restriction has nothing to do with ownership.
Now you ask, "why doesn't NCW instructs Apuron to withdraw the deed restriction?"
The NCW never told the Archbishop what to do. He can use his own mind. If you do not believe that, that is not my problem.
Dear Diana, the owner of the property is the the archdiocese. However the deed restriction would prevent the church from using it as its own. Am I right? The deed restriction gives away the right to use the property to the RMS in perpetuity. Please, talk about this!
DeletePeople consider this disobedience from both Archbishop Apuron and the NCW leadership toward the Holy See. Archbishop Hon said that the Holy See requested a withdrawal of the deed restriction. It is true. The Holy See requested that. Archbishop Hon is not lying.
OMG Grow up in faith, what do you consider more important, the RMS building? The building is not more important than RM Seminary which forms priests. And if you think it is, than you really are an ignorant Catholic. Think man..."YOU CAN NOT LOVE GOD AND MONEY, IF YOU LOVE MONEY YOU WILL DESPISE GOD." Please think about what yo are saying.
ReplyDeleteDCI
Dear DCI, who is talking about money? The issue is the deed restriction. It is about using the property in perpetuity without proper church authorization.
DeleteIf the building is not more important, than the seminary then NCW should empty the building and move RMS to a more appropriate location. You said the building is not important, then don't stick to it! Then let it go. It is not important for you. Withdraw the deed restriction as was requested by the Holy See, so that the Catholic church may use its own property.
Thanks.
The NCW is not a part of the "charismatic church of the Pauline type".
ReplyDeleteIts lip service to charismas and Holy Spirit are negated by the practices as witnessed by me for 28 years first hand.
It supplants true canon law everywhere with its own substitute which takes precedence. Members are never made part of the Church. Some who were already part of the Church manage to remain so by their own efforts.
Dear Morris,
DeleteThe NCW is part of the Catholic Church. Members do not become automatically part of the Catholic Chirch, which Christ built. To become a member of the Church, one must be baptized into the Catholic Church and be in communion with God and His Church.
At Morris I, I'm sorry you see it that way. But that is only your opinion and I do not share that opinion with you. The Way, as I am experiencing it, is not for everyone, just as Catholicism is not for everyone. But I can tell you that I have witnessed first hand the good being in the Way has done to people, families, young people, and marriages. Being in the Way has taught me so much more about being Catholic than the whole time as a catholic and not in the Way, and that is because of the how the Way is.
DeleteIn addition to what you see in the Way, do you not also see around you that majority of Catholics don't go to church, that priests are abusing children, that church finances are being mismanaged, that young girls are getting pregnant, that marriages between same sex is happening? Do you choose to ignore these things as a Catholic and instead point out only that NCW, as you see it, is somehow not perfect? Do you know of any Catholic who is perfect, other than God? Do you think the Catholic church is perfect?
Do you expect the NCW to be perfect?
I'm curious to know;
-In the 28 years did you not see anything good?
-Was is it all bad as you say?
-Why then did you stay for 28 years?
DCI