What struck me about the prayer vigil last night is the recitation of the evening prayer. This is not new to the Neocatechumenal Way. During our annual retreat, we recite the morning and evening prayers. During our monthly convivience, we always start with the morning prayer. For the older communities, we also pray the Liturgy of the Hours and have Sunday morning prayers. A family that prays together stays together. This is also true with God's family. Last night, I saw people from different organizations there. They came in uniform wearing the same tee-shirts. My community was also there scattered in different pews. There were many people at the prayer vigil last night. It was also beautiful to see Father Jeff and Father Lito take their oaths of fidelity. The church last night consisted of people walking in the Way and people who are not walking in the Way as well as people in different organizations of the Catholic Church. Archbishop Hon's homily was a bit difficult to hear due to the poor acoustics or was it a problem with the microphone. At any rate, I was able to catch most of what he says. His homily inspired many Catholics to trust the hierarchy of the Church, which includes the Pope and Bishops. Peace and unity reigns in God's Church with those who have Christ in them. Last night, I was able to see that peace and unity with the many different Catholic organizations and laypeople together in prayer.
Archbishop Hon also said that we live in a FAST SOCIETY. We want to do everything faster. From driving fast cars and even eating fast food. He reminded us that the Gospel is life and the Gospel that he speaks of doesnt always move fast. He specifically said this in regards to the comments and opinions of those who criticize his movements these past 3 weeks that he has been on Guam.
ReplyDeleteI have hope in what Archbishop Hon has come to do, which he stated that the Pope instructed him that his priority was to restore unity in the local church.
His appointment of Father Jeff and Father Lito could not have been any more appropriate. These two have been very neutral in the situation of the Diocese. There are no other priests that could enter those positions unbiased. Unfortunately most of our local diocesan priests have made known their opposition to the Archbishop, even more so the NCW.
Imagine if everyone just stopped paying attention to junglewatch and rorh, there would be so much happier days in our diocese.
Pas!
-Jokers Wild
Dear Jokers Wild,
DeleteI can understand going along party lines. They do that even in politics with the Republicans and Democrats. I think that having a mixture of the NCW and those who are not in the NCW would be the appropriate way to go. However, what the jungle wants is to remove the NCW entirely. I agree with you that everyone would be happier if they ignore the jungle. Unfortunately, there is a priest or Deacon who is leaking out Letters and documents from Archbishop Hon and the clergy. To the jungle. Archbishop Hon was already made aware of this issue, so I hope he is able to address this in his meeting with clergy yesterday. Unification starts with the clergy. Just as the clergy are to be obedient to the Bishop, so is Archbishop Hon to be obedient to Pope Francis. And it is clear even to Archbishop Hon that Pope Francis has retained the title of Archbishop Apuron as the Archbishop,of Agana. The mission of Archbishop Hon is to unify the Church of Guam, as per the instructions of the Pope.
If there is one thing I learned about being in a community is that you get people from all kinds of backgounds and characters, and the communities that walk are the ones with the problems. But what makes them successful is overcoming the problems by focusing on a common goal. It would be healthy for NCW clergy and non-NCW clergy to walk as one with the same goal in mind.
DeleteWhat goal would that be, Diana?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:18 pm,
DeleteThe goal is to become a holy saint. That is the goal of all Christians including the clergy.
Actually Diana @ 1:03 pm since it has been said that Fr. Jeff used to walk in The Way and was recently seen in the company of NCW members and since Fr. Lito does not have any "history" where the NCW is concerned, Archbishop Hon has placed the "mixture of the NCW and those who are not in the NCW" in positions of power, just as you recommend. How interesting. ;-)
DeleteBTW: You say you "understand going along party lines. They do that even in politics with the Republicans and Democrats." Just remember there are politicians who are known as DINOs and RINOs who DO NOT BLINDLY FOLLOW PARTY LINES. Of course that could never happen to those in the NCW.
Dear Anonymous at 6:19 pm,
DeleteYes, I am aware that there are politicians who do not follow party lines. Although I am not a politician, I also do not follow the party line. In the primary election, I vote all Republican since we cannot criss-cross our votes. In the General election, I give my votes to both sides.
I found it quite disturbing what I read in jungle about the Word of God. They say you don't need to read the Bible and don't need to be able to quote from it, because the devil can also quote from the Bible... Lol. This is quite a heck of explanation, isn't it?!
DeleteWe in the Neocatechumenal communities we think about this differently! We read the Bible a lot and do our preparation for admonishing Scripture reading with full heart and devotion. It is because we know that in order to rebut the devil who quote the Bible, you have to know the Scripture BETTER than the devil does!
This is in the Gospel of temptation when our Lord Jesus rebutted the devil several times, as our Lord knew the Bible much better than the devil! Lol. Then the devil had to crawl back into his nest of hell in shame.
“Away with you, Satan! for it is written,
‘Worship the Lord your God,
and serve only him.’”
11 Then the devil left him, and suddenly angels came and waited on him.
(Matthew 4:1-11)
They teach you that in the NCW? It's already written in the bible.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 1:32 pm,
DeleteThey also teach you that in the Church because as you know most Catholics do not read the Bible.
Yep. The Protestants are better at opening up the Bible and reading scripture than the Catholics.
DeleteStop referring your upbringing to the rest of the Catholic faithful. Just by reading your comment shows that it was you and your family that didn't read the Word of God. Who told you that Catholics don't read the bible? Kiko, Pius, Apuron? Why is it that they had to create a special group to teach the Word of God and not the church as a whole if that was the problem? Why?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 4:42 pm,
DeletePlease go back and read what I said. I said MOST Catholics do not read the Bible. Even Apologists like Scott Hahn, Steven Ray, and Tim Staples can tell you that.
Protestants like to use the prosperity gospel too. The more you give, the bigger the reward awaits for them in Heaven. If you don't give, then you're stealing from God. This type of teaching is used to control their flock into giving 10% of their gross income and to live a life of poverty on Earth. Cult leaders use this tactic to control their members. Jesus Christ abolished the Old Testament on the Cross when He said "It is finished". No need to practice Old Testament ways when were living in the New Testament generation.
DeleteDiana @ 1:38 PM, you made a general statement: "as you know most Catholics do not read the Bible." And then @ 5:58 PM you justified that statement by saying "Apologists like Scott Hahn, Steven Ray, and Tim Staples can tell you that."
DeleteSorry Diana but Scott Hahn, Steve Ray and other apologists who converted to the Catholic Church admit that Catholics DO READ the Bible more than the average Protestant, even though they're not aware of it. Scott Hahn said this is true especially for Catholics who attend daily Mass. Hahn even said that in 3 years a Catholic will have read practically the whole Bible, including the 7 books that Protestants don't have in their Bibles.
You really think that only those in the NCW read the Bible and pray the Liturgy of the Hours? Wrong.
Dear anon at 4:42 pm, it is true that most Catholics do not really care about the Scriptures. Just ask the flock coming out of your favorite Catholic church after a Sunday parish mass, ask the simple question what was the Gospel reading they heard about half an hour ago. You'd be greatly surprised of the abysmal level or Scripture retaining and recognition right after the mass. Is this not strange? The sad fact is that most of the people you ask this question from would have no idea how to answer it.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 6:01 pm,
DeleteIn the Old Testament, this 10% tithe did not come from man. It came from God.
Numbers 18:25-29 The LORD said to Moses, “Speak to the Levites and say to them: ‘When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD’s offering. Your offering will be reckoned to you as grain from the threshing floor or juice from the winepress. In this way you also will present an offering to the LORD from all the tithes you receive from the Israelites. From these tithes you must give the LORD’s portion to Aaron the priest. You must present as the LORD’s portion the best and holiest part of everything given to you.’
Surely, you are not accusing God our Father as being a cult leader simply because He asked 10%? The Old Testament was never abolished. After all, the Catholic Bible has the Old Testament in it. All Christ did was fulfill the Old Testament into something better. In the New Testament, do you know what Christ said? He told the rich man to sell everything he has to the poor and to follow Him. Christ also praised the widow who gave every cent she had. He did not praise the others who only gave 10%.
Dear Anonymous at 6:32 pm,
DeleteSee my response in the following weblink:
http://neocatechemunal.blogspot.com/2016/07/responding-to-commenter.html
So you're saying that the NCW is Protestant?
DeleteI didn't get an answer to my response. If Catholics don't read the bible, then why is it that they had to create a special sect to teach them the bible instead of the church as a whole?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 2:24 pm,
DeleteThe NCW is Catholic.
To Anonymous at 2:30 pm,
The purpose of the NCW is not to teach to read the Bible. Anyone can do that. The main purpose of the NCW is to form Chrisitans.
"The main purpose of the NCW is to form Chrisitans. "
DeleteAnd by extension, that is to say that the Catholic Church doesn't form Christians without the NCW
Dear Anonymous at 3:31 pm,
DeleteThere you go.....twisting my words. There is nothing in my statement saying that the Catholic Church does not form Christians. Please read the thread. I was responding to an anonymous comment who asked why the Church had to form a sect if Most Catholics do not read the Bible. Part of this thread was deviated away from the OP and discussed about Catholics reading the Bible.
Diana, Please swallow your pride. You did say and I quote "The main purpose of the NCW is to form Christians". That is interpreted as "The Catholic Church doesn't form Christians, only the NCW".
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:15 pm,
DeleteNo, it is interpreted to mean exactly what it says that the purpose of the NCW is to form Christians.....nothing more and nothing less. Do not put words into things that were never said or written.
I don't know, folks... Haven't these guys from the jungle ever received a decent education? Can they read at all? I have to start to seriously doubt it. Lol!
DeleteDiana,
ReplyDeleteThank you for being so honest,I love your responses , this battle is discouraging at times,keep up the good fight ,have courage . I am sick of the nitpickers ,who tear apart any comment,twist it for their own perversion. God is great and it is a
gift to be in the Neocatechumenal Way and like many others we pray for peace,have faith in our Pope,his delegate and our Archbishop Anthony Sablan Apuron .
ONWARD to Poland for a meeting with Jesus Christ and our Pope Francis
Like what happens in the parishes, NCW trie to hijack the world youth day. D
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:21 pm,
DeleteIf the NCW can organize a World Youth Day for its youth, anyone can do it. If I am not mistaken, I believe Father Paul was also organizing the youth to participate in WYD. In the NCW, it is a layperson who is coordinating the WYD in their own communities.
Is it that the reason the NCW organizes its youth to go to WYD is because its youth can enter into this pilgrimage in simplicity and in a prayerful life for the duration of the pilgrimage? Other youth might have a harder time entering / going in this fashion which might scandelize them since they might not have been exposed to a constant prayerful journey? Not to count them out but to be cautious for the young minds and souls that go? It seems that some youth found it to be a discouraging pilgrimage and disconnect themselves with the Lord when they return?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at z4:36 pm,
DeleteWorld Youth Day was never started by the NCW. It was started by St. Paul John Paul II. Naturally, we would want the youths to go into this pilgrimage with simplicity and with a prayerful life as they come to listen to the Pope. When the youth return, they share their experience with the community. So far, we have heard more positive things, and I have not heard any of them say that they were discourage.
Morning prayer, mid day prayer, vespers & gospels by chance on an 8 hour bus ride?
ReplyDeleteDiana, What happened to your response towards my question regarding why the church opted to only teach a select few about the bible instead of the church as a whole? Why did your response get removed? Was it because it clearly showed the division between the Catholic Church and the NCW? Are NEOs "Born Again" Christians within the Catholic Church?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 4:59 pm,
DeleteThe Church never opted to teach a select few. Those who joined the NCW and other Catholic organizations learned it because they teach it in these organizations. Those who chose to only attend Sunday Mass only get to hear the Bible, but most of them do not read the Bible outside the Mass. That was their choice.
To be born again means baptism. ALL Catholics are born again through their baptism regardless of whether they are in the Way or not.
Why is it that the NCW has their services separate from the regular mass held on Sunday? And why do they have it outside of the church?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:08 pm,
DeleteIt is not separate. In the parish, there are many different times for the Mass. For example, the parish can have a 6:00 pm Mass on Saturday, which is also counted as Sunday Mass. And they have their 7:30 pm Mass. Then on Sunday, they have their 6:00 am Mass, 9:00 am Mass, and 11:00 am Mass. You can join any of those Masses including the 7:30 pm Mass in which the NCW celebrates. Furthermore, the approved Statutes of the Way states that the NCW can celebrate the Eucharist in small communities.
We also do not have it outside the Church. The Church is defined as the people or the assembly. Christ said that wherever there are gathered in worship and in my name, so there I am also with them.
The only mass "in the parish" that is habitually attended only by a certain group, that is conducted outside of the sacred space, and routinely and deliberately chooses a different communion to the rest of the Church, is the NCW Eucharist. The fact that you think it is normal says all we need to know.
DeleteWhile your statutes might allow for masses in the small communities, it is for the purpose of introducing "fallen away" Catholics or non-Catholics to the worship of the Church. As Pope Benedict has pointed out, it should bring people into the worship of the "larger ecclesial body". IN other words, the masses in the small communities dhould not occur ad infinitum.
If it is not separate, why is the NCW mass not included in the parish mass schedules?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 3:59 am,
DeletePeople already know what time it starts, and they still do not to come. And even when it was published, very very very few came to celebrate with us and that was when we had it with the Cardinal.
Dear Anonymous at 12:25 am,
DeleteThese are the FACTS, which even you cannot refute:
1. The NCW on Guam had a Mass celebrates with a Cardinal, and he saw nothing wrong with the way the Mass was celebrated.
2. I recently published a post in my blog of Tim Rohr saying that the Vatican Delegation told him on January, 2015 that the NCW is doing okay.
3. Archbishop Hon, who is only second to The Pope, was part of that Vatican Delegation who told Tim Rohr on January 2015 that NCW is doing just fine.
4. The NCW has brought its members into the larger ecclesial body where most of them volunteer their services as choir members, alter servers, Lectors, and Eucharistic ministers. The fact that you cannot see them is not my problem. That is your problem.
When the NCW came to our parish years ago, I said I would come for the Wednesday nights when they opened the Word of God; however, because I did not believe that their Mass was approved by the Pope, I would not attend their Saturday night Mass. I WAS NOT WELCOMED TO THIS SHARING OF SCRIPTURE - IT WAS ONLY FOR THE NCW - DIVISIVE, DIVISIVE, DIVISIVE. And, if your answer to this is that the members share private things during this time, how is it that they don't trust me to not divulge such things. Am I not trustworthy? There are times some NCW members shared private things that occurred and were said during their meetings to me. I would think "they're not supposed to do that." Just to let you know, I've never repeated what I heard from them. Yet, I am not welcomed to come to listen to Wednesday's teaching. DIVISIVE, DIVISIVE, DIVISIVE.
ReplyDeleteAnd yet, if I so choose, I can come to their Sat. night mass and hear their echoes which divulge a lot of their personal problems. But don't go spreading them. Go figure??????
Dear Anonymous at 12:03 am,
DeleteEvery Catholic organization is like that. Even the Catholic Church is like that. A person who wants to become catholic cannot simply walk into our Mass and think that alone makes him a Catholic. He has to go through the RCIA program. A person cannot just walk into the Knights of Columbus without being recognized. Every Catholic organization has its rules. The celebration of the word is only for the community members.
I go to meet God during the Eucharist on Sat and Mass on Sundays.
DeleteYou should try this sometimes Anonymous July 5 at 12:03.
The division you speak of clearly is between you and God.
Stop using the NCW as an excuse to hide this fact.
Eucharist on Sat and Mass on Sundays? So they're two different things?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:20 pm,
DeleteNo, they are the same and one Mass with the same Sunday readings. We simply love the Mass so much that some of us attend both to receive the body and blood of Christ.
Yet Saturdays are called Eucharist and Sundays are called Mass....
DeleteMany people attend Mass daily...and call it Mass. May I ask why the different names for you?
You simply love the Mass so much that you call don't call it Mass, you have a different communion, you insert "echoes" in the middle and you can't kneel down for the Lord.
DeleteBut yeah, you love the Mass.
Dear Anonymous at 10:33 am,
DeleteYes, we love the Mass. :-)
Dear Anonymous at 9:56 am,
DeleteYou asked: "Yet Saturdays are called Eucharist and Sundays are called Mass....
Many people attend Mass daily...and call it Mass. May I ask why the different names for you?
The word "Eucharist" means thanksgiving and focuses on the Body and Blood of Christ. The Mass is the celebration of the Eucharist.
Anonymous at 9:56 am,
DeleteRead CCC, and stop inventing stories or play semantics.
II. WHAT IS THIS SACRAMENT CALLED?
1328 The inexhaustible richness of this sacrament is expressed in the different names we give it. Each name evokes certain aspects of it. It is called:
Eucharist, because it is an action of thanksgiving to God. The Greek words eucharistein141 and eulogein142 recall the Jewish blessings that proclaim - especially during a meal - God's works: creation, redemption, and sanctification.
1329 The Lord's Supper, because of its connection with the supper which the Lord took with his disciples on the eve of his Passion and because it anticipates the wedding feast of the Lamb in the heavenly Jerusalem.143
The Breaking of Bread, because Jesus used this rite, part of a Jewish meat when as master of the table he blessed and distributed the bread,144 above all at the Last Supper.145 It is by this action that his disciples will recognize him after his Resurrection,146 and it is this expression that the first Christians will use to designate their Eucharistic assemblies;147 by doing so they signified that all who eat the one broken bread, Christ, enter into communion with him and form but one body in him.148
The Eucharistic assembly (synaxis), because the Eucharist is celebrated amid the assembly of the faithful, the visible expression of the Church.149
1330 The memorial of the Lord's Passion and Resurrection.
The Holy Sacrifice, because it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior and includes the Church's offering. The terms holy sacrifice of the Mass, "sacrifice of praise," spiritual sacrifice, pure and holy sacrifice are also used,150 since it completes and surpasses all the sacrifices of the Old Covenant.
The Holy and Divine Liturgy, because the Church's whole liturgy finds its center and most intense expression in the celebration of this sacrament; in the same sense we also call its celebration the Sacred Mysteries. We speak of the Most Blessed Sacrament because it is the Sacrament of sacraments. The Eucharistic species reserved in the tabernacle are designated by this same name.
1331 Holy Communion, because by this sacrament we unite ourselves to Christ, who makes us sharers in his Body and Blood to form a single body.151 We also call it: the holy things (ta hagia; sancta)152 - the first meaning of the phrase "communion of saints" in the Apostles' Creed - the bread of angels, bread from heaven, medicine of immortality,153 viaticum. . . .
1332 Holy Mass (Missa), because the liturgy in which the mystery of salvation is accomplished concludes with the sending forth (missio) of the faithful, so that they may fulfill God's will in their daily lives.
2:26--
DeleteTake it easy....I'm 9:56 and believe me, not inventing stories and not playing semantics! Just wondering why the two names (in one sentence) if it's the same thing. I have never been to a Saturday celebration and wondered if it was a different sort of celebration. Now I know, if I understand Diana correctly, your Saturday celebration is a Mass.